• Twylarants said on Feb 18, 2009....

  That's a good question, Wombie.   If I comment as an atheist you won't be offended, will you?  I hope not, cuz I'm a very nice atheist...lol.
  I can't blame the people who believe in God for trying to prove his existence.  Who wouldn't want to know for sure?  If it's ever proven beyond a shadow of a doubt I'll be an ex-atheist in a hot second.
  But I don't blame the people who believe there's a scientific reason for everything for trying to prove that either.  I just think people feel so strongly about it that it's difficult to accept any other belief.  I know I feel that way.
  I hope you get a lot of responses because I'm interested to see what everyone says.
  

• D6fer said on Feb 18, 2009....

  I don't think that is crazy at all.....I wonder the same.

• wombat said on Feb 18, 2009....

  Twylarants:   No problem at all......I don't have answers either, but I sort of like this post more than any I have ever written, because I want to know what others think---no matter what they believe, don't believe, or think about those things.  I somehow hope I get lots of responses, too.  Whatever they are.

  D6fer:  Thanks for reading.  I don't even know what sent me into this realm, except mobil's post but there it is.....any takers?

• wombat said on Feb 18, 2009....

  (whatever....came back here before I left to say, whatever....hope someone reads that will peak my interest when I get back, whenever that is.......)  But thank you, Twylarants, and D6fer.)

• CayenneMan said on Feb 18, 2009....

      God is big , real big not in a customary physical way but more inclined to be an infinite energy source in a spiritual way that religion can't even come close to touching as in a realm of physics that would make much sense to us, at least not yet but one day it will and it won't matter if you ever questioned it's existence or not.
    This infinite energy really is all around us.  Regardless if you are a christian or an atheist you're still engulfed with in the power of it's love. Many who dwell here on this earth feel the harshness of life more then others and it may seem unfair. By the end of time it will all make sense.  I am a christian and I will keep the faith. Who said that ? Where am I ? :o)  

• diabolicdame said on Feb 19, 2009....

  Ok.. first off.. I really think that god has nothing to do with religion.. religion was something people made up so there would be order in life.. and so a few of them could remain in power. The god figures that cross our path never insist on religion, they insist on living life in an honest manner.. being a good person etc. Religion's got nothing to do with god. God I believe is something like the collective energy of the universe.. the thread that hold it all together.. so god would know more about science.. science is basically a set of laws.. laws that the universe obeys and runs according to. I dont see how it opposes god at all.. it might oppose religion but then I already said I think religion has nothin to do with god.
   
  We run after sciene because going about life without asking questions and finding reasons woud be a waste of our conciousness. How would we progress? Intelligence manisfests itself in curiosity. We find answers because we are curious.. and the answers lead us to the next door. Some early human long ago found the answer to making fires.. if he/she hadnt we'd not even be here! We want to know these rules so we can play with them.. make stuff.. better our lives.
   
  No conflict between science and god for me. Science is the brain, god is the soul. Things like the debate between evolution and intelligent design theory are silly to me. I believe in science.. I believe in god.. god made science.. a set of rules to run his universe by.. why would we want to make them oppose each other? I'm sure He/She/It wants us to know the rules too.. otherwise they wouldn't be so obvious.
   
  You know about the big bang theory right.. the universe banging out of one small point.. from unity.. our physics laws regressed into the past lead us perfectly to the bang.. but at the point when the bang happened from unity, they break down. we cannot access the unity. Its shrouded in mystery. Maybe we another theory to reach. Maybe it is what we call god.. the matter, the mother of all things that exist. We will reach it when we are destined to.
   
  This is all just my opinion ofcourse.

• queenparanoia said on Feb 19, 2009....

  as i said to mobil's post. i got tired asking these questions because seriously can you really find the right answers??? there is no right answer. so what i do is just let it be... just live life and let it be. why complicate things right?
  
  ahhh wombie your craziness is what makes me like you!!! ;-)
  
  by the way have you read my post when i quit smoking? you should read it!!!
  
  http://www.soulcast.com/post/show/185918/i-don%27t-smoke-anymore...
  

• uniquely-ironic said on Feb 19, 2009....

  Hmmm, and here I've always thought science was a neat way to PROVE the existance of God.  Of course I believe in a logical God who is wise enough to use the laws of the universe to create new planets and beings.  This being said, I also think God chuckles when we make some miraculous breakthrough in science and "discover" something new.  He's thinking "I was wondering when they'd figure that one out!".

• mobil said on Feb 19, 2009....

  What amazes me is that we have millions of atheists who live their lives by Christian morals and I don't think most of them even realize it. Of course they alter their morals to fit their lifestyles a bit, but in reality they're Christian morals.

   

  If I went into the woods, and found a chair, a wooden chair with a back rest and four perfectly even legs. Cross members to the legs to make it stable. A seat with an area hollowed out just a little to make my ass cheeks comfortable and arm rests on both sides and a coat of shiny varnish all over it. What would I think about that chair? Did someone make it? Or did it just happen?

   

  Beings I am not the smartest man who ever walked around a chair, I'd  have to think someone made the damn thing. In fact I'd be plum positive someone made it.

   

  Now, lets look at the human body, nah lets look at nature in general. Like I said in my post, there is an order to all of this. We may not like the outcome sometimes, especially when it comes to a loved on dying, but there is an order just the same. An intelligent design.

   

  The thing about a loved one dying, this makes atheists out of lots of folks. How could a loving God take this loved one from me? If we understand the tenants of religion, we understand that death isn't the end, but the beginning.

   

  Have another good look at that chair and tell me that give a few billion years it simply became that chair. Evolution, hell yes lets not be so stupid to think that evolution discounts the design.

   

• HollyGoLightly said on Feb 19, 2009....

  hi *wombie*!
  just thought I'd add my 2 cents...
  this is an impartial comment, just to share the following quote, which I read recently and found interesting... It said,
   
  "Knowledge is the enemy of faith"
   
  Hmmm..food for thought & along your subject line I think.
   
  ~*~Holly~*~

• Hegemone said on Feb 19, 2009....

  Good one Wombie.  Maybe they go hand in hand ... on the one hand, maybe God gave us science so that we could try to determine an "order" to things, find out all the Why's.  Maybe he also gave us science so that we would have the ability to choose ... for those people out there who do question God, science is an alternative, for those out there who would rather rely on their faith, then they have God.  On the other hand, maybe science is the only way and God is an unknown entity created for people who refuse to believe facts, or who need some way to validate the unknown.  Humans crave the knowledge to know whether one way or the other is the truth ... they want to know where they came from, why there were put here, and who they can send their life complains to realistically ... who can they blame for their problems?  Could they blame science for biologically creating them ... or could they blame God for randomly placing them on the earth?  I could continue rambling ... but I think I better stop here.

• wombat said on Feb 19, 2009....

  CayenneMan:  I like the way you think, and I hope someday it all does make sense.  Was it Shakespear who said, "The world is too much with us?"  And yet our place in it is such a broad and wonderful mystery.

   

  diabolicdame:  Interesting point of view.  I like the idea of God being a "collective energy of the universe."  Your concept of science makes alot of sense to me, but I always had a little trouble meshing the big bang theory with traditional religion.  But maybe the answer is simple....pretty much one in the same?

  Queen:  I see what you mean, but still, the answers we don't have make my head spin.  I like to read and think, even if I don't actually "learn."  Just more questions, and like you said, maybe it's all too much and why complicate things?  Another good thing to think about...ha!  (will check out your post)

  U-I:  That's an interesting twist to things!  And I have to say I had to smile a little at what you said.  It's not only probably true, I think "God humor" comforts me alot more than "threats."

  mobil:  I hope I didn't tread on your own post.  I guess I got carried away, but I am learning alot, or getting alot of new ideas from both posts.  I hadn't thought of athiests altering their morals to fit their lifestyles.  Agnostics too, maybe?  Good example with the chair!  I re-read from that point on in your comment and I got your point that made evolution and God sort of "mesh" in my mind in a sensible way.

  HollyGoLightly:  That's a quote I will keep thinking on.  I'm not sure if I think it's true, but then that what I was asking about.  Thanks!

  Hegemone:  Yes, I am understanding that they maybe go hand in had.  I hate that I am so confused, doubtful maybe?  I wonder why I think I have to "know" the answers in order to feel better about my life.  That makes sense, but hopefully deep down, I'm not just looking for someone/something to blame. Ha!  I won't go into detail about that, but sometimes I wonder why I was put here for reasons best left unsaid.

  Thanks to all of you for reading and responding.
  wombie

• kruuyai said on Feb 19, 2009....

  wombat:  I'm really glad to see this post and all the answers to it.  This is just the kind of thoughtful discussion that has been missing on SC for quite some time. 
  
  I think that you cannot separate God from Science.  They are One and The Same... and this is from an avowed atheist, but I mostly say that because, just like diabolicdame, I feel that religion has nothing to do with spirituality, and I agree with everything else she said as well, so I won't take up space paraphrasing it.  I also really like what CayenneMan had to say.
  
  Regarding the ongoing debate between religion and science, I think it's dangerous for the human race to stop questioning where we come from and what our purpose is.  I think that's the point of our existence.. the questioning.  Putting blind faith into the stories that we learned as children is a cop out... the lazy man's guide to spirituality, if you will.  Here's a quote that I think drives the point home, and I wish I could remember where I read it...
  
  "Resting your argument on faith alone is tantamount to conceding that reason is on the side of your opponent."
  
  mobil: What you stake a claim on as "Christian morals" are basically the same morals that exist in all the major world religions. 
  
  
  

• quietone said on Feb 19, 2009....

  wow, how did I miss this post?  Rather good reading here, lost of great input too.  I have a knowing that God is energy that is in and around us all.. I think it is so huge that our tiny bit of mind we use could not even begin to understand or accept the big picture, it would be impossible... that is where "faith" comes in.  How else could you explain how a tiny seed breaks open and pushes its fragile new growth up through the hard ground in the spring... how is that little sprout strong enough to push its way up against gravity?  Is that science or  by the grace of God?

• Me-Myself&I said on Feb 19, 2009....

  lordy, i hate to say it....but Cayenne hit the nail on the head! just kidding Cman!
   
  no religion can touch, describe, define the power of my God and Goddess.
   
  i could really get on down with this but i can't type fast enough to keep up with my thoughts.... need a table and a cup of coffee and time to just chat away.
   
  i have all the "proof" i need to know without a doubt that the Heavens are alive and well!
   
   

• StupidGenius said on Feb 19, 2009....

  Science doesn’t go after religion. The aim of science is to test, re-test and then test again what is logical, hypothesised and asserted. Science no more goes after religion than religion after science.

  It is innately human to question our existence and the world around us. To accept what we are told is dangerous and limits our own personal experience of the world around us.

  Knowledge and experience are what make us who we are. If you deny yourself those things you deny you right to be human.

  SG

• mobil said on Feb 19, 2009....

  @ Kru you are 100% right, but in the good ole USA, it's Christian, we are a Christian nation. I was talking about atheists here Kru and most were raised in Christian homes, if not then had Christian grandparents. Not allot a Buddhists here, or Muslims. See my point?

• GrapeKoolaid said on Feb 20, 2009....

  Neither offer satisfactory answers by themselves.  They're just two different ways of attacking the same problem, IMHO.  

• wombat said on Feb 20, 2009....

  kruuyai:  Thanks, but please note that I feel I sideswiped this somehow from mobil without even realizing it.  I am reading the responses, but don't feel I can keep up with any more deep resposnes at this time. Mostly I will just come here and read after this, most likely.

  I will say this:  After reading all of this, I am leaning toward the idea that in spite of the question, and in spite of the two concepts, it really is impossible to separate the two in the grand scheme of things.

  I liked what you had to say, especially in that 3rd paragraph.  I didn't know how to put that myself, but it sort of sums up the probable reason I ended up writing this in the first place.

  MM&I:  Very nicely said!  I just wish I was one of those people who were able to say it so bluntly, and mean it. 

  quietone:  Maybe you put it best of all....look around you...as in the tiny seed concept.  And maybe you won't end up like me questioning anything at all.

  StupidGenious:  Thank you, I needed that!

  GrapeKoolaid:  I think you are right, and I am learning that by all the well thought-out responses here.

• wombat said on Feb 20, 2009....

  (forgot to highlight the name mobil up there in my response to kruuyai, and meant to have that noted) 

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