• satanx said on Feb 12, 2009....

  I will have one more SOUL to harvest.

• house said on Feb 12, 2009....

  This is the way they think. I could not tolerate thinking like this! What can we do though?

• copsunite said on Feb 12, 2009....

  It sounds like & S & M thing. Maybe she enjoys it.

• BRITTANY_SPEARS said on Feb 12, 2009....

  Sounds like another pack of K-FAGS to me. This is the way every guy is.

• shiningstar said on Feb 12, 2009....

  Unfortunately everywhere you find religious rule women pay the price. The great Masters who the religions are founded upon did not ordain such horrible things.Those who say they want religions to be the power in America should look around the world at the suffering of all of the people and especially women and rethink their views.  The poorest countries in the world,  as far as the masses are concerned,  are those under religion. Peace

• SpiritualMom said on Feb 12, 2009....

  I couldn't agree with you more shiningstar! What this woman is going through is sick and uncalled for... Punishing her for something that was so horribly done to her is just twisted... 

• diabolicdame said on Feb 12, 2009....

  It is sick and it pisses me off!!

• PieterOpie said on Feb 13, 2009....

  Firstly I want to say that this is barbaric not only because of the corporal aspect of the penalty but perhaps even more so because the victim is being held responsible for the brutal crime of others.  The assumption by the court is that she was compliant in her own rape as if she wanted to have sex with a whole gang of men.  Well, don't we all?  (small joke)
  
  However there is no mention of religion or religious interference in the passing of the preposterous penalty.  It mentions a judge and not a cleric.  Saudi Arabia is a brutal absolute monarchy or as close as you can get t it.  Women are regarded as property in our thinking, so I don't know that we can pass this off as being Islamic as such.  This is cultural, not religious.   This kind of extremism is not the case in all Islamic countries where women have much more freedom and I imagine more legal rights and access to legal representation.  The Saudis have a shocking reputation in human rights cases. 
  
  I am loathed to assume that this is part of modern Islam.  Usually when women are treated poorly in the Middle East it is the secular laws that are lacking because in Islam women are meant to be equal.  We need to point our disapproving fingers at the civic authorities as much as the religious fanatics in Saudi Arabia who undoubtedly won't object to this violence and gross injustice.
  
  There is a danger in making the wrong assumptions and blaming this on Islam or painting all muslims with the same brush.  That is clearly unfair and could be seen as being unreasonably prejudiced.  In these sensitive times it is easy to get swept up in rumours and preconceived ideas.  We would not want anyone to jump to conclusions about us.   I think this case requires further investigation and I'd like more information.
  

• ALT said on Feb 13, 2009....

  We don't have all of the facts! Some women love gang bangs, but no being caught for it. Where was she?

• ouija said on Feb 13, 2009....

  I went to the board, and it said she will be gang bang by Islamic lesbians while in prison. She will be trained in the female oral Islamic arts.

• rat_fink said on Feb 13, 2009....

  I'm against Islamic law. Where was their Alah at the time?

• PieterOpie said on Feb 13, 2009....

  Technically Allah would have been the same place as God.  They are the same theoretical supernatural deistic being.
  
  We may assume that Jesus, Jehova, Yahweh, The Lord, The Holy Spirit  and various others are also there.... as one that is.

• mixednuts said on Feb 13, 2009....

  America must make a stand against this

• PieterOpie said on Feb 13, 2009....

  Don't worry. These things invariably attract worldwide objection.  American can keep its collective shirt on..... (please) 
  
  How embarrassing....... 
  

• mixednuts said on Feb 13, 2009....

  We are self absorbed with Paris Hilton, drugs and money.

• hugecock! said on Feb 13, 2009....

  They should have done raw anal. The stink would hold them back of course though. Is Islam anti-anal?

• satanx said on Feb 13, 2009....

  I do not wish to bluster but I am proud. 100 lashes feel great!

• darkerthanlight said on Feb 13, 2009....

  I'm pissed hearing this shit.  Men have alot of balls belittling us women like t hat.  Just remember that America has no room to talk when men still get away with harming the women here.  I guess Satanx likes 100 lashes.  He must be kinky  like that.  Whatever floats his boat.  If I were interested in sex, I'd give him the 100 lashes if he wants.

• darkerthanlight said on Feb 13, 2009....

  Satanx is just mad that I wouldn't get with him.  That's why he blocked me.

• PieterOpie said on Feb 13, 2009....

  Hugecock! said:   "They should have done raw anal. The stink would hold them back of course though. Is Islam anti-anal?"
  
  As you can see folks we are not so different from our Muslim brothers.  We too have our share of  misogynists.  Spoken like are real red blooded wife beating thug.  Undoubtedly the choice of screen names is an exercise in pure fantasy unfulfilled.  He might be more comfortable living in the country in question.
  

• PieterOpie said on Feb 13, 2009....

  MixedNuts:  Yes, Paris Hilton should be an ambassador to the Middle East.  She does so much to enhance the reputation of America in those regions.  A real trooper in the war on taste and decorum.  Mind you our obsession with money has suffered a bit of a setback lately....  perhaps some crack cocaine will ease that sad state of affairs.  

• CreativeWoman said on Feb 13, 2009....

  I think it is in bad taste to joke about such a topic.  That woman was violated and the men should have been prosecuted.  I agree that is sick.
  
  CW
  

• PieterOpie said on Feb 13, 2009....

  I remind our readers to keep things in perspective. In America alone there are hidden in the suburbs million of women who are being held against their will be American men and used as sex-slaves.  They are often foreigners who have been tricked into coming here to seek work and they find themselves in a strange land, their passports are taken away and they are beaten into submission until the comply with the wishes of their captors.  They are then used as sex workers for as long as it suits their tormentors who naturally take all the money for the sex they must supply to the men who frequent these underground brothels.  It is estimated that world-wide many many millions of girls and women are enslaved this way.  Statistically this means that there are now more people held in slavery than when slavery was an accepted trade. 
  
  These slavers and pimps could not survive without the patronage of regular American men who make use of the vile services offered by these low life sub-human scum.  Your fellow countrymen and other western men assure these bastards become rich and continue to imprison and enslave young women.
  
  I am not making this up.  It is common in Europe, America, Australia... anywhere where men will pay these pricks and the police are overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of traders.  Sex and the abuse of women and children is big business. 
  
  Although this does not lessen the outrage of how the Saudis treat their women it does put it into perspective with reality.  Who among you has ever used such services and suspected all was not quite above board.  Could your girl speak English???  Watched any child porn lately?   Thank god for one thing though, at least they aren't being subjected to all that Islamic crap.  Only good christian values here!!!!
  

• shiningstar said on Feb 14, 2009....

  First is that it does not matter that a cleric was not mentioned inthe report.One only look around and see the place that women have in this culture.  They are not respected and are treated like children.  Second.  We all have a chance to end this by individually living our lives showing respect to women everywhere in our moment by moment daily lives.  Americans and many other nations and cultures place sex and beauty as statements of value instead of individual self. When we all treat everyone with equal respect our world will change.  Each change begins with individual self as life is expressed that way. When one does not give equal value to what a woman says,  demeans her in any way,  makes fun of her,  sees her less beautiful than another,  does not give her equal pay for equal work and/or treats her in a disrespectful way.  Women teach me how to treat them.  As long as women ALLOW themselves to be treated this way there is little that can be done.  Just as I was writing this a woman walked in and said to me that she bows to her husband because she does not want to argue with him. In other words she does not want to stand up for herself or stand up to him for her rights as an equal.  What law can be passed to free her?  In religions women are not given rights except to bear children and be a  help/meet or a slave to her husbands wishes.  Without money or an education often she would be put out on the streets for disobeying him. That is why these religions have fought against the education of women for centuries.  As long as she is dependent oh a "him" for her daily bread what choices does she have and she will raise her children,  another generation,  up to obey the same way. One must look at their own personal interaction with women every day and see if they are treating women as equals.Women should take whatever steps they can to empower themselves and raise their children to be independent and strong. On slave trade please read the book "Trans Formation of America"  by Kathy O'Brian an ex slave of the American government who has exposed their involvement in global sex trade for decades.Peace

• PieterOpie said on Feb 14, 2009....

  Yes, all we can do is live our lives in an honourable way and treat every human well.  We can express our views at any opportunity when our voice might bring about some change.  We can ask those who represent us to work to that ideal. Other than those things we are powerless unless we take up arms and force change.  That may or may not work but it will cause other pain for ourselves and those we intend to help.  To bring about a revolution in a distant land is a very difficult thing to achieve.  So we can only live honourably and wait for opportunity.
  
  Write to your representative and express your disgust.
  

• satanx said on Feb 14, 2009....

  I get the last word...not pie hole. Noone cares about this. It's all about the future harvest of souls. THE END!

• satanx said on Feb 14, 2009....

  Those who *hate me love me.Who's your daddy now! *ME! I'm the father of man. Adam & Eve have me to thank. All sin is because of me. Are you a Lucifarian? Join with me in the gathering of SOULS!

  *satanx

• PAPARAZZI said on Feb 14, 2009....

  how  long have you played the satamx game? Are you an alt?

• PieterOpie said on Feb 14, 2009....

  You would think that this was one thread where Satanx's quirky humour could be avoided.  Perhaps I am being too serious but it strikes me as insensitive to women and the subject matter.  I could be wrong... Note sure.  Don't get me wrong, I do have a sense of humour, but there are limits in my opinion.  At least wait a bit longer before destroying the atmosphere altogether with that...stuff.

• mixednuts said on Feb 15, 2009....

  I don't like to judge others for what they say, so I have unblocked those I had blocked. let others be the judges. Let me take the blows if you want.

• satanz said on Feb 15, 2009....

  If you're into evil you're a friend of mine!

• PieterOpie said on Feb 15, 2009....

  He has a right to post his opinion,  however I doubt he really is who he claims and his opinion seems to be that he has the right to be nothing more than disruptive and completely insensitive to the subject matter and he is right.   I am equally able to express my disgust and have the same right to do so.  etc. etc.  I don't approve of blocking anyone. 
  We have a woman who is the victim of unspeakable injustice and violence and in the middle of sharing views on this human tragedy suddenly we have some clown making infantile jokes.  It shows little respect for the seriousness of the matter.  I ought to simply ignore it but I chose to respond.  That is the totality of it.  We can pick up from where we left off if we want to or we can discuss the disruption some more.  Either way is fine with me.  You need not feel responsible for the remarks of others.  That is silly.
  

• PieterOpie said on Feb 15, 2009....

  Speak of the devil...........

• andora said on Feb 16, 2009....

  Sharia Law is an offshoot of Islam, but the Saudi's are Sunni...they are self-described opponents of Shiite rule (Sharia Law is the hard-line Islamic civil code)...they sound so much like the christians in our society - the Protestants hate Catholics and the Baptists hate everyone!
  
  I agree with many comments here
  
  and
  
  I would love it if we simply pulled out of the Middle East, gave absolutely no funding to anyone in the region, including Israel...but who would protect Ray Hunt's oil expeditions in the Kurdish region? It is because of private interests in that region that we are economically and militarily involved in the Middle East?
  
  We have no fucking reason to get news from that region anymore, no reason to hear more about the women who are being treated like our women were treated just a hundred years ago. So! They are behind the times! American women were hated after getting gang raped by native Americans. they were encouraged to commit suicide! So why all of the outrage? Yesss, injustice in my local community is MY BUSINESS! But getting emotionally involved with women who allow this to occur in their communities serves me not! I've been crying for years as a result of tuning into the horrors of this world, when I have plenty to cry about in my own family of origin. I've decided to stop it! I no longer want to know what is happening in the Congo....where they were cutting off the arms of children to get villagers to leave their homeland. Tired of feeling anything at all for the women of the Middle East...mad as hell that we continue to look in on this nightmare society and act like we are better than them....just more evolved, with the priviledge of educating ourselves from whence we came. Paleeze feel free to look - feel free to get outraged - feel free to pat ourselves on the back for actually evolving out of the DARK AGES within the very same religion that innaugurated the Dark Ages!
  
  What happens in the Middle East is none of my business - I'm tired of caring for those who do not stand up for themselves!!!! FUCK THOSE PEOPLE AND THEIR WAY OF LIFE! They are about as bad as the Vatican for gawd sakes!
  

• open_letter said on Feb 21, 2009....

  This type of misuse of Islamic law is cruel and unfair.  No woman assaulted should be going to jail for 'adultery'.  This ruling speaks to the paranoia and fundamentalism that reign over Saudi society, with is caste system, slavery, poverty, violence and misogyny.  Of course, the P.C. types will come along to criticize me for posting this (something about culture and race) when race is not the issue here and religion is how you approach it.  To those people:
  
  My family has Algerian and Syrian ancestry.  I hate prejudice against Muslims and discrimination.  Criticism of culture is Saudi Arabia is not prejudice.  I have listened to friends of mine (who have husbands, friends and family members there) describe scenarios of women being assaulted and pushed around for not standing in the right section of the coffeehouse line to sisters being stoned for saying the wrong thing or 'adultery' to the annoyance of having to wear a veil and walk three feet behind men without permission to go out, work, study or drive to lack of availability of birth control to compounds owned by Westerners being firebombed.  Saudi Arabia is a stupid and cruel society.
  

• andora said on Feb 21, 2009....

  amen
  
  and I want an end to US hegemony there
  
  let the Saudi's figure out how to fix their own society
  
  I could flood this sight with stories of women in the US, we may not be suffering to the extremes that those under Sharia Law, unless you are a black person in the Southern US
  
  I'm not pc
  
  an I have racism derived from experience with other cultures bc I have the right to discern what is good for me
  
  I live near a large fillipino culture where i live that brutalizes animals. they beat living dogs with sticks after filling them with vinegar to tenderize the meat
  
  this is cultural
  
  and I hate it
  
  fillipino's like to fight dogs and chickens, they take the kids to share in their bloodlust...as a culture, I dislike them
  
  and I have fillipino friends that dislike their own culture. this pc thing has gone a little too far in that people are afraid to speak out about culturally sponsored traditions that harm people and animals
  
  my rant above was a temporary lapse into hopelessness
  
  i really do care about the women in the Middle East, and I hate their society a little more than I hate my own
  
  
  

• shiningstar said on Feb 22, 2009....

  I guess for me the problem is , which is also an opportunity, is that to look at abuse of women and to get emotionally involved in it is to keep on creating it. If we hate then we are sending hate out into the world which just makes things worse. It makes hate keep on multiplying over and over again. For me, it is better to be at peace with this and realize that it is individual choice that keeps hate growing. These women, as all women, can leave a society, a culture, a home where they are being mistreated. The problem appears to be that no one, or at least most of them, appear not to want to leave. They would rather have family and the culture that they were raised in than cross a border to a new life. No that is not easy but it is the same answer everywhere. Women in America who are abused often stay because they convince themselves that love holds them to their abusor and say that they do not have the resourses (money) to leave. Like drugs and alcohol when one quits these addictions they too often have to leave family and friends that still continue with these habits or they will go right back to them. One has to consider what is more important to them. Freedom often takes a back seat to ones comfort zone regardless of how bad it is. Yes America, in my opinion, should leave theses countries alone and let them live or die according to their own belief systems. You cn not go next door and heal an addict. You can only heal your self.Peace

• andora said on Feb 22, 2009....

  dear shiningstar
  
  ungrounded positivity only leads to hopelessness: frozen in the headlights
  
  anger is a natural response to imbalance. if the anger is denied in favor of positive thoughts, then the imbalance does not get addressed: it get's minimized in favor of ungrounded positivity.
  
  when anger is judged as unloving, it usually gets denied; this then creates rage; when this is also denied, the rage becomes hatred: another unmoving retched state.
  
  in the case of hopelessness and hatred I find that expression of these extreme emtions releases the frozen state to give way to inner resolution and/or action.
  
  as example
  
  for over 30 years I watched the news about the Middle East and wanted there to be balance because I hate war. but, all the experts expressed judgments of hopelessness...so i did what everyone did, nothing. then, after the war on terror forced these issues upon the larger world, hatred welled up inside of me causing me to write a book about the Human Condition. when i finished the book, I went to Turkey, Israel, Palestine and Germany where I gave out free copies of my book. Ungrounded positivity would never have achieved such a thing...that all came from the impetus of rage and hatred. All the while I was wishing for peace and love, the imbalance that actually existed caused rage and hatred. I did not allow myself to deny my truth bc I felt ashamed of feeling hatred like you are suggesting
  
  for the past decade i have allowed all of my denied negativity to come to the surface for expression. my health improved, as did my level of freedom. I work diligently at helping others to accept their truth as a first step to addressing imbalance. I have had to fend off those who believe that thinking good thoughts is all there is to spirituality for a very long time...i must temper myself here starlight...because your suggestion brought up anger - thank goodness it is no longer rage, or i would have been less than politically correct in my response to your suggestions about hatred.
  
  i hate ungrounded positivity that shames others for having negative emotions about terribly negative situations
  
  aloha
  

• PieterOpie said on Feb 22, 2009....

  Just on the side......
  
  About a year ago I was a my doctor's office and while waiting for some paperwork I was making small talk with the young woman looking after me.  I'm not sure how it came up but she mentioned she was from Saudi Arabia and I reacted by saying something like "not the best place for a woman to live...". 
  
  She very quickly took me to task and said in a very determined tone that she never felt as safe as she did there. 
  
  I was left without a comeback because she had obviously taken a little offence at my casual and I suppose somewhat thoughtless remark.
  
  I could have taken her on and argued but I was not there to fight with the receptionist.  I was quite surprised by her answer but I should have guessed because many muslim women actually defend this kind of culture where they are "protected" by the veil and "kept away from social harm".
  
  So there you go...  
  
  I did not alter my views.  It stirred them up, but did not change them at all.
  

• satanx said on Feb 23, 2009....

  Perhaps this was a transgendered HE/SHE that got raped!

  They should all be on the MONTELL show!

  Islam craves anus.

  ANUS FOR ISLAM!

• shiningstar said on Feb 23, 2009....

  Andora on one level I do agree with you but the most important thing here to me is that you chose to do what you felt was the thing for you to do and so it healed a lot of things for you. All peoples choices must be allowed. But you are dealing in cause and effect in a differnt arena than I suggest and live. I see cause as that what is within each person as the unseen thoughts and attitudes that are the foundation of each person. From within comes the problems that we create and continue to live in.When the within is free of anger, guilt, fear and condemnation then they are not adding to it but are indeed healing these things. Like attracts like so what I feel will come back to me so I must change my thoughts and attitudes in order to end the current situation.Peace

• andora said on Feb 24, 2009....

  shiningstar,
  
  there are more so-called spiritual people denying their truth in favor of 'appearing' spiritual than there are 'evil' hatemongers. the misinformed actually believe they can intellectually choose how they feel...silly, silly, silly
  
  it's actually much more simple than the explanation you offered above about how you simultaneously agree and disagree
  
  i hate injustice - hatred of injustice gave me impetus and courage
  
  my closest friends have nothing left to lose, these are my peops bc they have no illusions about appearances, refusing to present balance when they do not actually feel balance. we share the naked truth (today that means that hundreds of millions of people are getting displaced, hunger is increasing etc)...and have no room left for appearances of spirituality.
  
  people who advise other's to use positive thinking as a solution to very real problems are simply spreading a very harmful mantra
  
  denying the truth is not spiritual, it is denial
  

• shiningstar said on Feb 24, 2009....

  Thanks for the reply Andora. It is not positive thinking that I am speaking of here. Jesus said it is out of the hearts of man that these things appear. In other words hearts are filled with anger, hate and lack of love for their brothers and sisters. Only Self can change that for it is within the person that it lives. If one sees lack one creates lack. Religious people ofter are not taught of the power that is within them so they become victims of anything and everything. If it takes hunger to allow a person to grow and see the abundance that we have on this planet and allow them to change their hearts and minds and get in the flow of Mother Earth-Mother Nature and live in harmony with these things then so be it. The Universal Laws will all ways give back to us only what we put in as it sees it as what we want. A good Father/Mother only wants the best for it's children. So we have been given the power to create our reality. Jesus called it the Kingdom of Heaven which he blantently stated was within each person not on some far away peice of real estate as religions teach. When we stop following the teachers that take our power away and begin listening to those who seek to teach us about our power and begin doing it the world will change. If love heals all things as is often said then love will heal this but it is acknowledging the power within the Self and loving it that brings this about. Gandi said "BE THE CHANGE THAT YOU WANT TO SEE''. Peace

• mixednuts said on Feb 25, 2009....

  Shiningstar said it so well! Thankyou!

• andora said on Feb 25, 2009....

  in this we both agree shiningstar: "Gandi said "BE THE CHANGE THAT YOU WANT TO SEE''. Peace
  
  and the point in Ghandi's words is 'Be' the change
  
  I'm advocating telling one's truth as a means of creating balance. If there is imbalance and it is not addressed, bc one is not allowed to tell their truth in an environment of falsity, the imbalance never gets addressed. If we demonize those who feel hatred (there is a difference btwn those who feel hatred and those who act out hatred) the hatred does not get expressed and will fester in the darkness of denial until it acts out violently. That's how all these so-called normal folks turn into killers
  
  Feeling as if our truth, (my example: hatred of injustice) is unloving will definitely force one into hiding their truth (denying it) rather than exposing their truth as a means of self-awareness that is empowered to evolve to an 'enlightened' awareness. shame never helps people that are disturbed. of course i would isolate those who are violent, but to shame those suffering from negative emotions does not help them to shift this, it only teaches them how to have a pious exterior filled with confusion.
  
  denying chronic imbalance in the name of being positive is not love, it is a form of tyrrany.
  
  having faith is different than denying the truth
  
  i have always had a living faith, yet choose to be honest about my truth. human beings have negative emotions that are designed to help the individual address imbalance or discern what they like and dislike. many spiritual people advocate giving up desire and discernment for mantra's of love that don't make room for the individual truth. As a mother, it was my fear of famine that i witnessed abroad, that motivated me to create a seed bank and attain land to be self-sufficient upon - this was my solution to my terror. If i had denied my terror, i would now be dependent upon a collapsing society. false positivity disgusts me
  
  I agree with the notion that love always prevails because that which is not love has a short shelf-life. but, why would we let dogmatic ideas take the place of our individual authentic truth? whenever there is one group that has power over another group, there will be negativity....those in power decry the complaints of the powerless and use absurd mantra's about hatred being unloving or unproductive. In other words those using their power to oppress others, would rather take away the right of the individual to have negative emotions about being pushed around. those that are the most successful at selling this hogwash do so in the name of love and piety. not pretty
  

• andora said on Feb 25, 2009....

  and i think this thread about gang rape is a great example of imbalance worth hating
  
  try loving that for gawd sake!
  

• shiningstar said on Feb 26, 2009....

  Andora I greatly commend you for expressing your personal point of view. It appears to me that you are focused on imbalance-vs balance and positive vs negative. That is not where I am coming from. I commend you for seeing what is and becoming soveigh for your own self and family. That is the way we could/should handle the dire circumstances that are rapidly approaching. You are becoming the change that you want to see. Inately you have realized that government or king cannot take care of you and if you follow them they will lead you into great poverty. If ONE walks out and creates freedom then it creates a path to freedom for all others. It is one drop of clear water in a very dirty bucket of water yet when more drops of clear water are added the bucket become clear water. Peace

• andora said on Feb 26, 2009....

  funny you use the water anology
  
  i was swamped by a recent storm because i was having so much fun i left every window open...then this vicious storm soaked EVERYTHING
  
  i don't hate this
  
  i'm just a little depressed
  
  thanks for the great conversation shiningstar
  
  i appreciate your communication style and i can feel your heart in your desire to uplift those around you....in this I assume that you are definitely a shining star to those around you.
  
  please do not misunderstand my tight grasp upon hatred...i have found that this hatred of injustice has not depleted my ability to love...it was the shame i felt about feeling extreme levels of hatred that squashed my ability to feel and extend love. so thank you from the bottom of my heart for hearing me out on this topic. i do not feel any hatred today, in fact, i'm giving thanks for our new leadership
  
  mahalo for your aloha
  

• shiningstar said on Feb 26, 2009....

  I thank you Andora. We need people like you in this weary old world. You are a bold woman taking care ofself and a wonderful example for all women. Remember we are all doing the best that we can do with the knowledge that we have each and every moment. Send your sisters love for it indeed heals all things. Peace

• andora said on Mar 01, 2009....

  ditto

• mixednuts said on Mar 16, 2009....

  hand me a gun.

• shiningstar said on Mar 17, 2009....

  mixed nuts --give me an address---Ha

• mixednuts said on Mar 17, 2009....

  BULLETS PLEASE! (shiningstar)

  Hi andora!

• shiningstar said on Mar 17, 2009....

  Aww---No gun and no bullets???  Is this just an idea???

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