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Okay so I'm going to get back to my normal now! lol
 
 
 
 
I would like to know what you think on these topics :) I like to have an honest DEBATE I don't argue religion as its a never ending fight... We all have the right to believe what we feel is right in regards to religion, or anything else for that matter!! ;)
 
I personally believe in free will to an extent, I think that we have the right to CHOOSE how we HANDLE any given situation. I believe that we are all sent here with a purpose and a game plan (for lack of a better way of putting it) that we must follow.. I think that we make this plan before we ever come here... There are no suprises in our chart (plan).. Rape, wrecks, cancer and every other negative thing you can think of is in there, and we agree to it... Please remember that when you were making this chart you were placing obstacles in your way in order to further your spirit's growth, Earth is like a giant High School, we come here to learn and to perfect.. Sometimes we get here and we can't deal with all of the things we wrote into our charts, some people are emotionally destroyed by this and others may choose to opt out (suicide)... I believe that people who choose to do this also wrote it into their chart. I think we give ourselves a few "outs" and we choose if we take them or not, people who commit suicide just take an out... I think that free will is the right to deal either positively or negatively to any given situation in our charts, how we deal with things will determine what we learn while we are on this Earth.. If we dont deal with things positively then we don't learn from them and we will have to repeat this lesson in one way or another....
 
That brings me to the second part!! I do believe in Reincarnation, I think that we have all been here more than once and I think that we will all come back here.. I think that we will continue to come here until we have perfected to the degree that we are comfortable with, then we continue to learn and grow (spirit) on the other side... Like I said, its like high school, classes that you dont do good in you have to retake, and some people learn at a faster rate than others.. I don't know how many times I'll come back but I do know that I've been here before, and I'll be here again.. I know that some people think that we just come right back, I dont agree with this... I think that if you are a bad person (serial killer/rapist, child molester, etc.) you will die and come right back, like being stuck in a revolving door.. Most of us though, I think, get a break in between.. I think we choose when we come back or if we come back... That again I think is part of our free will....
 
I hope to hear back from some of you as to what your thoughts on this are.. Until then,
Love and Light


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Comments

  • PieterOpie said on Feb 13, 2009....
    The early christians believed in reincarnation I believe.  It was dumped for some reason.  I imagine it suited the church so that they could control the minds of the followers more.  If they believed they got another chance they might not be so obedient.  Dogma is about control.  I see religion as a method of mass crowd control. Those early popes had a lot of clout.  Even today they have more power than they should have.... which of course is none.  God does not need men as priests to represent him.  The idea is fraudulant. Churches are also superfluous.
    I imagine any god would resent religion.  I know I do.
  • SpiritualMom said on Feb 13, 2009....
    PieterOpie,
     
      I agree with alot of what you said, with a few exceptions of course! ;)
     
    Yes, Gnostic Christians believed in reincarnation and that is the earliest known sect of christianity.
     
    I agree that dogma is about control, and as you said reincarnation didn't fit in with their plans so it was kicked. They chose to add things like homosexuality being evil and male superiority.
     
    Churches will always have more power than they should because people will always turn to them, I'm not saying this is wrong, its just not for me. The problem is they wield the power wrong, they use it for greed and materialism (for the most part) rather than for the good of the people which is how it should be used, especially by a church.
     
       I do however believe in a Creator/God because to me its logical, the earth had to get here somehow...
     
     And I think that religion is  a part of his plan, no religion is 100% right, but most are similar in some aspects so I believe that all of them have atleast some of it right..
     
     I think the Creator cares more about how we treat others than anything else... The rest is just dressing :)
  • PieterOpie said on Feb 13, 2009....
    We do disagree but only just by the sound of it.  You see I do think organised religion is wrong - and evil, because of all those reasons you outlined except I could add quite a few more, I assure you. 

    I see no reason to allow this kind of fraud.  At the VERY LEAST all churches and the like should be taxed - and heavily at that.  They should also pay for a license to trade in bullshit and land taxes, rates and a lot of things I could invent to prevent these pirates from accumulating too much cash and power.   I'd also force them to take government audits every so often - let's say once a week.

    You do realise that to invent a god to explain the existence of the earth is not in anyway logical at all.  Science has progressed quite a bit since the six days of creation.  We have now observed actual solar systems in the process of being formed.  Perhaps rather than wonder about the creation of this minor planet we need to concentrate on the whole universe as a subject of conjecture.

    Did god create the universe which gave rise to the earth (in a very lengthy process)?  That is now the last of the goals of science and philosophy.

    Unlike most people however, I am content to go with out an explanation.  It may have always existed with no beginning and no end.  The need for either one are very human needs. We need to be able to say where something came from because of our nature. That is understandable.  However it is not logical.  The universe, despite whatever evidence to it being born from the Big Bang that does little toward explaining what existed before that event.  Perhaps there was nothing - perhaps there is a megaverse - a greater universe which gave rise to this one we know and love.  LOL... 

    That suggests that there was already something before and probably always was and that it always will be.  If that were true then there is no need for a god to create anything at all.  Then in time man would create god to help explain all those things we did not understand.  In ancient times they were plentiful because very little made sense.  Today we know a hell of a lot more.
  • SpiritualMom said on Feb 14, 2009....
    I don't necessarily agree with your harshness where churches are concerned, they serve a purpose and they give alot of people hope when  otherwise they would have none.. I do agree though that they should pay taxes! I dont see you as not believing in anything though, even by choosing not to believe you are choosing a belief in nothingness. For me that would be a dismal belief, but if it works for you thats all that matters! :)
  • PieterOpie said on Feb 14, 2009....
    Me?  Harsh?  hehehe....  I resisted having all the priests shot.  That is rather lenient and forgiving on my part I thought, but I guess you must be a real super nice person.  I have gruesome fantasies of crucifying some of them for some of the evil things they have done innocent kiddies. But that's a bit distracting here and now I know...  The advantage is if we shoot them all is that we would also sieze their assets and help the poor in a tangible way rather than all those Hail Marys and so forth.  That is so tedious.

    As for as the church giving people hope - Hmmm.... I don't know.  At least a sizeable percentage of the flock believe their shenanigans is going to land them in hell - which I do not call hopeful, do you?  That's depressing!!!!

    Don't you play with me with all that believing in nothing business.  I have all kinds of ideas floating around in this funny old head of mine and I look forward to finding out what is going on when I die.  I don't think believing in nothing is so bad.  In heaven I'd have to behave myself forever and I doubt I'd last the distance and hell.... well that has obvious drawbacks.  It's a bit like not needing to know that all of this world and universe had a beginning.  I am content with whatever happens.  If it really is like the pope says then I am going to be really pissed off!!!!  In that case god had better have good sense of humour.  In the end I might simply refuse to go.   That'll upset 'em!!!   hahahaha!!!!
  • SpiritualMom said on Feb 16, 2009....
    LOL okay well I have to give you the fact that most of them think their going to hell and yeah that is pretty depressing!! But some still find the teachings to be a comfort to them and so I guess they serve their purpose for those ppl, luckly you and I aren't among them! :P 
  • PieterOpie said on Feb 16, 2009....
    I was just now thinking that the religious people in our midst are actually quite lucky when faced with a major problem; for example as passengers on a jet which suddenly plunges through the clouds and is screaming straight towards the earth below.

    All of a sudden their fear response kick in and they start praying at a furious rate, rocking back and forth, with the Hail Mary's and what not and people like me just sit there looking blank and thinking "Oh. great....  my last seconds on Earth and I'm sitting here bored out of my mind."
  • Knowledge1 said on Feb 17, 2009....
    Spiritualmom, Reincarnation is something that I just don't believe in. If I believe in that then I believe that I am going to heaven or hell.  I don't belive when I die that a little ghost man is coming out of me going somewhere in  space, I just don't believe it. Ecclesiastees 9 says; after death there is no further a reward and that the same fate awaits us all.
  • SpiritualMom said on Feb 17, 2009....
    LMAO Pieter, you have a warped sense of humor..... I LIKE IT!! :P
     
     
    Knowledge1, I don't understand how you equate reincarnation with heaven and hell.. I don't believe in Heaven and Hell either nor do I believe in "the devil" (which I will be posting about in a few minutes) but I do believe in reincarnation.. We all have a spirit, as you seem quite well versed in the Bible then you know that it talks of this everywhere in it, that spirit has to leave our bodies when we pass.... I don't believe in heaven and hell in the sense that the Bible portrays them, but I do believe that there is an "other side" where we go to heal from this life and prepare for the next, as I said earlier, I see this Earth as school for our souls, so I guess in a sense you could say that this is a kind of boarding school, when we die we go home and prepare for the next stage of our education. I am very interested to know why you think reincarnation is synonymous with heaven and hell though... Thanks for your post  :) I look forward to hearing from you again soon!!
  • PieterOpie said on Feb 17, 2009....
    SpiritualMom said:   "Pieter, you have a warped sense of humor..... I LIKE IT!!"

    Oh please, take it, it's yours...  I have plenty of spares at home.  Enjoy...


  • Knowledge1 said on Feb 18, 2009....
    The idea that there is something after you die
  • SpiritualMom said on Feb 18, 2009....
    Well, yeah I believe that there is something after you die.. Believing that when I died all that I was would just be worm food strikes me as kind of depressing!! lol
     
    I don't believe in heaven and hell though... So not sure how that fits in! lol  :)
  • PieterOpie said on Feb 18, 2009....
    Perhaps heaven and hell are one and the same place and everybody goes there.  The reward of heaven or the torment of hell is not a quality of the place but rather a part of our individual experience of that next state of being.  Those who were good people will be at peace there but the bad guys feel a torment or guilt for their evil in this life.  Perhaps we will not be judged by anyone but instead we must face our own conscience and judge ourselves.  Generally we know when we have done the wrong thing and so we will feel our guilt and thereby suffer until we have worked it out of our system, so to speak.  The goodies among us will feel a joy unhindered by any negative emotions and can soar on high with the other elevated spirits on to the higher spheres. 


  • SpiritualMom said on Feb 18, 2009....
    I personally believe that we live in hell everyday... I mean really, with the things that we have to face on a daily basis as humans I can't really see there being any place worse than where we are!
     
    :)
  • PieterOpie said on Feb 18, 2009....
    Personally I agree with you. Had we done the right thing by each other and the world then we would now be living in a paradise.  However throughout history we behaved like savages and the world with all its woes and evil is the result.

    It is very straight forward and ever so simple.

    We can change - but will we?

    I think it would take a massive and catastrophic event to make us rethink our ways.  I suspect that Global Warming is that event.  It could change life on earth and for us forever after.  That is IF we survive.....


  • SpiritualMom said on Feb 19, 2009....
    I agree whole-heartedly Pieter... Heaven and Hell were the choice from the beginning... We chose hell, now we have to live with that choice.... Your right it is very simple, maybe thats why alot of people don't see it... People tend to believe that God has to be very complicated in order to be real... I have always found just the opposite is true... The simplist things are most often the ones that speak to me the deepest..
  • PieterOpie said on Feb 19, 2009....
    We who live in the Western world usually don't suffer to much deprivation and have plenty to eat and enjoy a comfortable lifestyle and in those conditions the individual can still choose to make that a person heaven or hell.  So many people seem to somehow get it so wrong that their personal worlds reel in turmoil and conflict.  That to me seems so totally unnecessary and self-defeating.  Yet it is widespread with millions being unhappy and unable to deal with things.

    Then I notice people in third world countries with very little more that the basics and they are uncomplicated and appear better balanced and without that same kind of trouble.  However I do think we can to some degree fend off the stress causing parts of our Western lifestyles and simplify our ways and minimise the negative effects.  We can try to find our personal "paradise".  It is not easy but I think it can be done.

    We are all so entrenched in the material.  We enjoy our toys - the TV, the home cinema, our night life with the music and drink and drugs.  Don't get me wrong, I I have indulged myself with all those typical pleasures and rewards of our city and in no short measure.  I am over it now..... too old and fat and much too tired.  I'd drop dead before I got into town.

    What I am getting at is that all those fun things are great and they are fun but none of them assure happiness.  When the lights come on and the music stops we are left once again with that one thing we always have - ourselves.  If that little person is not at peace then no amount of escapist pleasure will bring happiness or personal paradise.

    I am a terribly material person.  I collect useless crap that sits around the house and gathers dust.  I am realising that none of it means anything at all.  It is my mind and what lives there that hold all the pathways to peace or trouble. 

    We live and therefore we desire things.  That means suffering because we want.  If we give up want we become peaceful.   Happiness is a momentary high.  If we need it we will be constantly let down.  If we allow ourselves to be content alone it comes more easily.  After a while we look back and realise that to be content is real happiness - a calm and peaceful happiness.

    That is heaven in our own little world.  Things will not make you happy.  Money cannot achieve it.  Other cannot bring it to you. 


    Guru Pieter needs to pee so get the hell out of here!!!!!
  • SpiritualMom said on Feb 19, 2009....

    Awesome Pieter! I couldn't agree with you more, we choose if we live in heaven or hell...

    And I agree with you about the people in third world countries, they are happier because they live and think simpler than we do..

    Dont get me wrong I don't mean simpler as a derrogatory statement, I mean that they are more elemental than we are... If they wake in the morning and are in good enough health to carry out thier normal routines they are happy and feel blessed...

    We are greedy here in the Western World... We want for the sake of wanting... If we get all that we wanted then we find new things to want... We are never satisfied... That is in part do to society, we have been taught that it is natural to want what we don't have....

    As you said we have to learn to be happy with just being... It starts and ends within our own minds..

    Like love and forgiveness, it comes from you, you can't love or forgive another without first loving and forgiving yourself... You can't find happiness until you can find a way to enjoy just being...

    Thank you for this post Pieter :) It brightened my day to see it!

     

  • PieterOpie said on Feb 19, 2009....

    Well, aren't you just the most agreeable person in the whole wide world.......

    LOL.....     


  • SpiritualMom said on Feb 19, 2009....

    lmao Well.... sometimes ;)

    I promise to argue with you about something later! :P

     

  • PieterOpie said on Feb 19, 2009....
    .


       E X C E L L E N T . . . . . . .    

                                    MHUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

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