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When a person sets out to learn a second language typically simple greetings, numbers, days of the week, etcetera are the first things to learn. Next are simple present sentences, simple interrogative statements, simple past and so on until the student reaches more complex sentences and higher levels of grammar. A student’s progress depends on the student’s language comprehension ability, the study time to which he commits, his opportunity to listen to or interact with native speakers and his overall enthusiasm for learning.

Of all my students, only two are of a very high level where I can speak normally and freely, without modifying my speed or vocabulary. One of them is the head of a pharmaceutical research lab and is becoming a well-respected scientist in his field due to his published papers and appearances at symposiums around the western world.

He is also one of my most difficult students, not only because he needs more than daily conversation topics to satisfy his learning but because he has not learned how to disagree in a diplomatic fashion. Disagreeing with him is more like entering a debate, which for me makes the class atmosphere too tense. I offer two examples of debate-like conversations we have had.

 

Topic One: The student explained to me how mice can be treated for obsessive-compulsive behaviour by first putting them in a cage with saw dust and marbles. Mice hate marbles for some reason and will bury each one systematically in the sawdust until they are all hidden from the rodent’s view.

Me – But that’s not exactly a fair test for obsessive-compulsive behaviour now, is it?

Student – It’s a proven experiment that causes mice to exhibit obsessive-compulsive behaviour.

Me – Perhaps. But as I understand it, obsessive-compulsive behaviour is where people do everyday things but repeatedly, such as continuously verifying that they have their keys or cleaning things over and over. Based on what you told me, mice have an inherent fear of marbles and so they try to hide them all. It’s not exactly the same thing, is it?

Student – But this test was designed and approved by psychologists as an example of obsessive-compulsive behaviour. The mice don’t stop until all the marbles have been buried.

Me – But isn’t that a bit like, let’s say you want to go to bed but find someone has left a pile of dirt on your bed sheets. You don’t want to sleep on dirty sheets so you replace them only to find right after that dirt has appeared again. Once again you replace the sheets…

Student – But nobody wants to sleep on dirty sheets so of course they want to replace them with clean sheets. That is not obsessive-compulsive behaviour.

Me – That’s my point. If someone continues to clean the sheets after they have been cleaned then that would be obsessive-compulsive behaviour. But simply changing dirty sheets for clean sheets as often as necessary to ensure a clean bed to sleep in seems normal, even though dirt appearing over and over again is not.

Student – I don’t understand what you are trying to say. In this experiment the mice exhibit obsessive-compulsive behaviour and we can treat them with experimental drugs to see if they stop burying the marbles. If they do then we can set that drug aside and continue to test it as a possible cure for obsessive-compulsive behaviour in human subjects.

Me – But the mouse buries the marbles because it doesn’t like them. If you treated a person with this drug and they stopped changing their dirty sheets and accepted sleeping on a dirty bed would you say the drug had cured them of their behaviour?

Student – But wanting to sleep on clean sheets is not an example of obsessive-compulsive behaviour so we wouldn’t treat such a person.

Me – But it seems to me that for a mouse to bury marbles is a normal thing for a mouse to do so I don’t understand how treating a mouse for normal behaviour shows whether or not a drug is successful at curing obsessive-compulsive behaviour.

Student – But as I told you, this test was devised by psychologists and it is proven as a test for obsessive-compulsive behaviour. So we researchers use this as a method to test for cures.

Me – I just don’t understand how putting a mouse in an unnatural environment – one that is full of neatly arranged marbles – and watching his response can be a valid test for obsessive-compulsive behaviour. It is not normal for us to have to change our bed sheets several times before going to bed and it is not normal for a mouse to sit in a cage of marbles. If a mouse was repeatedly doing the same thing in a normal environment then I could see the test being valid.

Student – But this is a verified test for obsessive-compulsive behaviour and we use it to test or drugs. Trained professional psychologists have shown it’s a test for…

And so on.

 

Topic two: Israel invades the Gaza Strip; the history of tensions behind the Israelis and the Palestinians.

Student: So, it seems this problem has continued for generations and will not easily be resolved.

Me: I agree. Today’s youth on both sides will remember the deaths and the destruction and even if their governments agree to a peaceful co-existence there will still be underground movements to strike against their perceived enemies in the name of revenge. “Your father killed my father, therefore I must kill you.” In a way it is similar to the problem of Chinese and Korean enmity against Japan.

Student: You mean back during the war?

Me: Yes, the atrocities committed by the Japanese against the Chinese and Korean people occurred five or even six generations back, however there are movements in today’s youth in China and Korea against the Japanese.

Student: But that is a totally, totally different situation. Japan, China and Korea have always had their own land. They share the same religion. It’s a completely different situation.

Me: Yes, they have had their own lands and shared a religion, but what I mean is that the problem of tensions against Japan goes back some generations. Today’s grandparents were born during or after the war and can’t be held accountable for what were in effect decisions made by their parents and grandparents. And yet the present generation of Chinese and Koreans still won’t let the past alone.

Student: But it’s a totally different situation and has nothing to do with the Israelis and the Palestinians who have been fighting for land and have different religions.

Me – No, in that case I agree with you that the two are different. But since you mentioned that the problem goes back some generations and can’t be resolved so easily from one generation to the next, I drew a parallel between that and Japan and its neighbours who also have sour relations because of issues that extend back to generations past.

Student – But it’s a totally, totally different situation. You can’t compare the two at all.

Me – Not even by saying that the problems in both cases go back some generations and can’t be resolved easily? You don’t think that there is at least that similarity?

Student – No, because the situations are completely different and can’t be compared at all. These are two entirely different topics of discussion.

Me – (shrugging) OK.

 

I was hoping to teach him today about how to disagree with someone nicely by acknowledging their opinion such as by saying, “I can see what you are getting at but to me the two situations are incomparable.” But he was absent today. My co-worker had to teach him once and said that right from the start he felt that here was a person he could not get along with. So, I have the pleasure of teaching the class. I do enjoy it though. Discussions with him keep me on my toes.



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Comments

  • diabolicdame said on Jan 24, 2009....
    I think you are a great teacher for having the patience to keep teaching this student!! I've been in discussions with people like that and its kind of like pulling out your own teeth! They just dont see your point. I think a lot of people in your place would just give up and agree with him forevermore to avoid discussions.. but you're a pretty cool guy for finding a way to enjoy them!!
  • hotaka said on Jan 24, 2009....
    It's a learning experience for me. Partially because I can learn to express my point in different ways while keeping a cool head and partially because his inability to budge or dispute diplomatically has given me something else to teach him.

    Last week he said, "Actually I am fed up with talking about what I did on my winter vacation." At first I took offense but decided to let him know that "fed up" implies frustration and anger. You can use it to express your displeasure about someone to someone else but when you use it to someone's face you are basically attacking that person and you can expect an angry reply. He didn't know fed up had such a meaning.
  • diabolicdame said on Jan 24, 2009....
    Yeah keeping your cool here is the part I'm most impressed with!! But like the 'fed up' thing..maybe theres lots he doesnt yet know about actually conversing in the language.. so I think as teacher you're doing a super by understanding that and treating him accordingly.. I'd have put his head through the wall or something.. hehehehe.. he should thank god for you!!   :-)
  • diabolicdame said on Jan 24, 2009....
    I meant you're doing a super 'job'.. gah.. this edit-less commenting is messing me up!!
  • gingersoul said on Jan 24, 2009....
    Hottie......i think is highly possible you and i are telepathically connected, my friend.... I was pondering this kind of things just this morning while walking my dog. I come back here....  and there you are...

    Great minds think alike......again...lol...

    You know that this topic is extremely close to me since English is not my mother language.
    I don't go on again in repeating to you how frustrating and sometimes self esteem crashing can be finding yourself in a situation in which your thoughts and emotions are not perfectly conveyed by the language you are using.

    I still do use verbs or shape sentences in a way that leave people puzzled or, even worse, questioning the real intention behind the words i pronounce. Facial expressions and gestures help me to convey better my thoughts.
    And in this detail might lie the difficulty you are encountering with your student.

    Japanese culture teaches composure and restrain. My culture is all for leashing out the emotions and reinforcing with gesture the mental process. Maybe if your student wouldn't be Japanese he could use those body expressions more freely ? Just a thought...

    Anyway, i think you are doing an excellent job....your student have no idea how precious is your contribution to their academic development. My high school English teacher was the first one to speak a horrible English....gack!

    Sometimes for me writing is much easier than speaking. Maybe you could ask your student to write down his point of views? He might have the time then to rephrase his sentences and understand that his approach to you is highly confrontational and why.

    Ah, the life and the challenges of us second language speakers......:-D

    Good luck!
  • PAPERBACKWRITER said on Jan 24, 2009....

    I swear hotaka.. your recent postings are subjects that are too emotionally near to me.. I can only write about it after July...

    Language and communication... some does not realize what seems to come ordinary for some are means of survival for others.

    I agree with dia, your student is lucky to have you.  You not only see him as a language student . . . but cares for his communication survival...

    paper ~
  • gingersoul said on Jan 24, 2009....
    Joanna...that's how i call it too....survival skills...its all in how we can get through daily problems in the best way with a certain amount of struggles and see other English mother speaker (at times less intelligent and less prepared) smoothly sailing away.......
    Its just darn frustrating...that's why what you do, Hottie, is so important and remarkable......

    .
    **Hi Jo-Jo {{hugs}}**
  • PAPERBACKWRITER said on Jan 24, 2009....

    ((((((((huggiesGingeryhuggies))))))))

    I swear to you, I don´t know why I am putting myself through the whole learning of a new language again, Ginge!

    ...oh, love! LOL


  • PieterOpie said on Jan 24, 2009....
    Have you tried slapping him really hard?   It might help.  Try it.  Make sure it really hurts.   Smile as you do it.

    Then ask him to write a report on it or something.  I don't know.  I'd fail the rotten brat for being so damn smug and uppity.  Yeah.....hehehe  a big "F".  That would teach him something new.  LOLOLOLOLOL

    Slapping is more satisfying perhaps.............  I don't really care you know.
  • KathQuiet said on Jan 24, 2009....
    I don't know how you can converse with someone who hasn't the imagination to suppose that "trained professionals" could be wrong, or to compare two situations and see similarities that are obvious.  He's a fine example of a fully indoctrinated automaton.  If it's not along the conventional lines, he can't fathom it, let alone acknowledge that someone else may subscribe.  Since he's such a robot, instill the imperative that he memorize and use polite responses to ideas he can't or won't grasp in order to save his own face.  I'm betting it will work. 
  • PieterOpie said on Jan 24, 2009....
    HIT HIM!!!!!!


  • sheltercrow said on Jan 25, 2009....
    You lied: put your here.

    Me: I agree. Today’s youth on both sides will remember the deaths and the destruction and even if their governments agree to a peaceful co-existence there will still be underground movements to strike against their perceived enemies in the name of revenge. “Your father killed my father, therefore I must kill you.” In a way it is similar to the problem of Chinese and Korean enmity against Japan.
  • sheltercrow said on Jan 25, 2009....
    Put you source here.
  • hotaka said on Jan 25, 2009....
    ginger, we might be connected somehow, yes, but I have been wanting to write this post, at least half of it, since the marbles and mice discussion last fall. I finally had a chance to type it.

    I know what you mean about language. As someone who is also struggling with a second language I can understand how people feel when they are told that their English is great and yet they know within themselves that they are struggling. My wife often gets frustrated with herself.

    My student's most common body expression is sitting with his arms crossed, so he comes across looking as though he's closed and only going to debate, not discuss. He tends to lean forward or toss his head slightly at times but he doesn't move his limbs much. I know southern Europeans are much more physically expressive.

    PAPER, yes, developing language skills is sometimes a means of survival. And I know it can be frustrating to not be able to express yourself better. Good luck to you. Though I heard learning the fourth(?) language should be easier than learning the second.
  • hotaka said on Jan 26, 2009....
    PieterOpie, there have been a couple of times I have wanted to hit him but that wouldn't really be professional now, would it? Of course, if I drugged him first... Nah, he would see right through such a ploy. He is after all a research scientist and pharmaceutical developer. Maybe just clonk him one with a fax role.

    KathQuiet, that was what was the most frustrating, that he couldn't see beyond his opinion or training. Particularly with the mouse experiment I wondered why he couldn't see that it might not be a good experiment to test for obsessive-comulsive disorder. I thought that maybe as an outsider I was missing a point at first but then I thought that maybe as an outsider I was seeing a point that the trained professionals were missing. Sometimes you can only shrug and move on.

    sheltercrow, I'm sorry I don't understand. "You lied: put your here." It's been hard on all of us since the edit comment feature faded away. Who is "you"? What was the lie? Put my what here? I am sure you were making a good point. "Put you source here." My source? In your comment spot? What source? I was repeating a conversation. The only source is my memory.
  • PAPERBACKWRITER said on Jan 26, 2009....

    Yes, hotaka... I will be learning a fourth language. :) I am itching to blog about languages, communication - my passion, my love - .. but at the moment bureaucratic stuff have the foremost priority in my overwhelmed brain.


    paper ~

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