• PAPERBACKWRITER said on Jan 21, 2009....

  
  
  I hope you don´t mind me asking, what do you think should be done then? I am really curious...
  
  paper ~
  
  

• beyondtheveil said on Jan 21, 2009....

  There is no such thing as 'climbing out of the red'. The bail outs simply extends the inevitable and will probably not do much good anyway even in the short term. Throughout history, paper money has never worked and this rise and fall is cyclic. 
  
  The only lasting monetary system is one based on precious metals. When you start printing paper money and 'back' it by metal, its only a matter of time (about one lifetime) before the system begins to fall.
  

• D6fer said on Jan 21, 2009....

  More is going on than meets the eye in my opinion.....something much larger is looming on the horizon.

• PieterOpie said on Jan 22, 2009....

  We need a whole new way of doing business.  As long as greed and corruption can thrive - they will.  The capitalist system is ideal for those basic human flaws to flourish.  Unless very strict regulation exists it is inevitable that some poor soul will give in to temptation and screw all of us up the arse!!!!
  
  To allow banks to self-regulate in INSANE!!!!  To allow any big wealthy organisation to run loose with minimal control on the pretence  of encouraging competition and such is tantamount to mass hysteria and social suicide.
  
  How many companies are in the business of being totally "nice" with the well-being of all humanity as its ultimate goal?   Profit but not before human need..... YEAH RIGHT!!!!!  LOL
  
  This bullshit needs to end.  I am soooooo sick of hearing about another fucking billionaire making good. 
  
  HOW MUCH MONEY AND POWER DOES ANY ONE PERSON NEED TO BE DELIRIOUSLY FUCKING HAPPY?  or even somewhat content????
  
  It is ridiculous.  We are told that greed is good because we allow it to impress us. We actually believe that material abundance equals happiness.  I will be challenged in this very thread about it.  I think it is all bullshit and we are letting the filthy rich screw us over and over and in the end the whole world will have been used up, polluted to death and the result will be a small bunch of rich bastards holed up in private fortresses eating human meat and watching us fight it out in the remnants of the cities we are now building.
  
  Eventually there will be only two infinitely rich people left over and intent on eating the other one and then encasing themselves in a solid gold tower and dying alone on an extinct planet.
  
  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... AAAAARRRRRGGG I'VE GONE MAD..... I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA..... HAHAHAH AHAHAH AHAHAH  AHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAH AHAHA HAHAHA........................................  . . . ..       ...... . . .
  
  
  
  
  
  <cough>  hehe.... oops........
  
  sigh.......
  
  
  
  Oh look....... it's time for my pills.
  
  excuse me won't you.  bye now.  
  bye bye....
  
  
  
  

• curmudgeon said on Jan 23, 2009....

  OK - Geithner was not an exec at Goldman. He's been a financial regulator and has worked in various government positions for most of his career.
  
  Of course, that makes him even less qualified, in my book. He apparently helped engineer the AIG bailout - AIG took the money and then treated their execs to a lavish retreat. He also had a hand in the decision not to bail out Lehman, which cost investors billions of dollars.
  
  Opie - of course the hole in your regulatory solution is that the regulators themselves are accountable to no one. Regulators will often take positions in the industries they regulated and vice versa. Much the same way you can't legislate moral behavior, you can't regulate human greed.
  
  Paperback - My solution is to give this money directly to taxpayers in cash. They can use it to pay down their debts or they can spend it frivolously. For the millions of people who choose the former, banks will see a decrease in the risk on their securities, thereby freeing up credit, and for the latter, goods and services will see increases in spending, thereby stimulating lobal production.
  
  Giving money to banks only hurts us in the short and long term.
  
  But hey - Obama's going to change the way Washington does business! The good old boy network is a great way to start, don't ya know!
  

• PAPERBACKWRITER said on Jan 23, 2009....

  
  Thank you for the reply, curmudgeon.
  
  I have refrained for years in reading anything political, it aggravates my nerves.  But I would like to get myself informed again... by asking simple questions...
  
  paper ~
  
  
  

• PieterOpie said on Jan 23, 2009....

  Curmudgeon said (in part):  "you can't regulate human greed." 
  No you can't but you can make the laws so water-tight and seal up all the loopholes that allow for blatant abuse of power and the misappropriation of funds (or whatever the hell you call it). Don't let them act on that greed.
  
  Failing that you take the bastards and throw them into a pit with other greedy bastards and let them eat each other.  The one that survives can be placed in a cage at a zoo for kiddies to fear and stare at.  The sign will read "Human Shark - Deadly".
  
  Drive them to extinction.  Those savages do not belong in a civilised world.
  Again I express my loathing of these scum..... GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!
  
  I am telling you; they would be the undoing of all of us.  This is literally a matter of our survival and the future of our descendants.  These people would let global warming kill us all just for profit.  WE MUST DEFEND OURSELVES and people need to recognise the threat these kinds of people are to us.  Really!!!
  

• curmudgeon said on Jan 24, 2009....

  Pieter - If you can pull that off, maybe fine, but somehow I have a feeling that they have a better chance of driving us to extinction rather than the other way around. The reason I say this is because they've already proven how far they're willing to go to get what they want. Ethical folks tend to cringe at the sort of things you suggest.
  
  If you do decide to act, I think I'll just catch it on the evening news, if you don't mind.
  
  c
  

• PieterOpie said on Jan 24, 2009....

  Of course you're right.  It would take a revolution in thinking and require a new mind set for the entire human race.  However you never know...  Look at how Obama has inspired your fellows and he has had a very positive effect all around the globe.  That is a very rare thing these days in a field of unimaginative leaders and idiots who do little other than perpetuate the mess.
  
  A leader like him but dedicated to the reform of how we deal with each other and our planet functions might get enough cooperation to begin to put the abusers out of business.
  
  Certain practices need to be declared as crimes against humanity and the planet as an environment for all life.  Break the new laws and all countries need to enforce it.  There must be nowhere to hide.  It is one planet and no place exists in isolation.  I wonder what proportion of the world's population truly understands this basic fact.  Certainly 100% have a steak in it. 
  
  I have no descendents so I have no direct interest in a future world, but for the life of me I wonder how anyone with children can sit by and allow the continuation of the brutal treatment the earth gets every day.  It is mind boggling how fast the rape is.   Just picture a time-laps film from space of the Amazon for example - I have seen such a thing and it instilled pure fear in me.
  
  I expect that the perpotrators, or many of them don't even realise the scope of their actions.  Not that they care... but they don't care to know.  That is so much more offensive.  
  
  Personally I believe the world's resources need to be declared property of the planet and not of any of us.  No business should be able to profit from what we all need to survive.  The use of these materials need to be considered by need, not profit.  Like I said - it would take a new way of thinking; whatever form it might take. 
  
  Perhaps we need to eliminate money.  No money - no more profiteering. No more accumilation of extreme wealth and power. 
  
  Gawd.... I am such a idealist dreamer.... or is it  fruity wanker.... LOL
  

• stopmediabias said on Jan 25, 2009....

  I can't imagine what they are doing here.  Throwing a massive amount of money at the problem is not going to do anything but extend it.  Didn't we just do that recently right before the end of Bush's presidency and didn't work?  Yet historically when a president cuts taxes we get growth and growth leads to higher GDP and jobs etc etc.. Are these people blind?

• PieterOpie said on Jan 25, 2009....

  I am curious to know what America will be exporting in huge quantities in order to make some money.  You need to make an awful lot of it to pay some loans and stuff.  How many tens of trillions is it up to now?  20? 30?  That's a lot of Coca Cola. Does America still make stuff or did it only consume stuff lately?  

• curmudgeon said on Jan 26, 2009....

  Pieter - Obama may be hailed as the new prince of peace, but just three days into his presidency he fired missiles into Pakistan. Of course people seem willing to overlook these deaths and pretend he didn't have anything to do with it.
  
  And you're very right about the U.S. having to produce things of value. In the 1990s tech ramped up, and that was of value until companies had enough tech to last them a few years. Then people all started building and buying houses in the 2000s and when the market was saturated that sector dropped - only everyone from lenders to borrowers was heavily leveraged, having failed to do proper risk assessment and here we are.
  
  So what's the next big thing that everyone will be spending their money on? This is the key. It can't be a silly pump and dump scheme like real estate. It has to be of lasting value and we have to be ahead of others on the production curve. If the U.S. can come up with this first, we may have a chance at reviving ourselves. If China or India come up with the next big thing, however, we're in for a decline in global influence.
  

• kelly said on Jan 26, 2009....

  Wow, I guess you've already forgotten that it was Bush who pushed through a $700 BILLION give away, and now you're complaining that Obama is following through on his lead?

• stopmediabias said on Jan 28, 2009....

  Kelly did the $700 billion do anything to help the economy? 

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