I was anti religious for many years having grown up in the south and been around so many hypocritical Christians. In college I took some philosophy class on morality and was forced to ask myself if there were such a thing as right and wrong and if so what was the source of this morality. Atheists, agnostics, and secular people in general often answer the question by appealing to some sort of real life karma. If you do bad things society is worsened and in the end you are affected negatively by this. I.e. it's in your best interest to not harm others. Let's pose this question differently for the sake of this argument. If there you were in a situation where you could rob a person for a few million dollars, and in the process kill them, would you? If we use the secular self interest argument then we immediately see that the slight negative impact, assuming the police don't catch you, of killing this person is far outweighed by the huge positive of the money. Your children will have their college paid for, etc, etc. Therefore, the karma like self interest does not hold as a means of morality. Once forced to answer this for myself, a once atheist, I came to realize that there needs to be a source for morality and I see no secular source for it. The only other option is a truly dog eat dog world, and this I do not believe in. This began my spiritual voyage.