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     I find it interesting the way the media works.  A war is started and the focus of media attention is not on what actually caused the war but on the carnage in the war.  This is exactly what is happening in the Hamas/Israel conflict.  There are of course a lot of anti-Semites on Soulcast.  I am not Jewish I am a Christian and see this conflict as a result of stupid liberal policies.

     First of all lets take a look at Hamas.  A terrorist organization according to the U.S., Canada, The E.U., Japan, Australia, The U.K. (only the military wing), and Israel.  Started in the late 80's and notorious for its suicide bombers.  The destruction of Israel is written into their charter.  What makes Hamas very dangerous is the fact they pose as a charitable organization and do provide funding for hospital services, libraries, and schools.  I wonder what they teach in these schools?

     When the Gaza strip was handed over to the Palestinians, Hamas eventually wormed their way into control.  They tortured and murdered many people who spoke out against them and turned Gaza into a war zone.  From then to now they have refused to accept the existence of Israel, they continue militant anti-Semitic rhetoric, and they are constantly lobbing rockets into Israeli towns.

     Now we have a media painting these roaches, who have started this conflict as the victims.  Hamas militants stand in defiance shooting rockets and working hard to kill Jewish people.  Suddenly now when Israel decides to put end to the militants and stop the rocket attacks everyone is calling for a ceasefire and peace.  What is wrong with you people?  You don't make peace with people whose goal is to destroy you.  If the world cannot get these people to live and let live what is a ceasefire going to do?

     The world must unite against these radicals.  If they gain strength, which is very possible with the media showing every single bloody incident, we could have another Nazi movement on our hands.  When a group like Hamas or Islamic Jihad blows something up the world needs to turn its back on them.  Hamas should be considered a dirty word and spoken only in contempt and everyone participating or supporting the group should be hunted down and captured or killed.  If Israel ceased all hostilities is Hamas going to live and let live?  NO!  They need to be conquered, that is what will bring lasting peace.  This is one of the greatest of all human tragedies.  The fact that with certain groups only through war and death can we find peace.   



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Comments

  • D6fer said on Jan 04, 2009....
    It's amazing isn't it? They bring it on themselves, yet they get the pity of the world!.....I would like to see Israel march them into the ocean!
  • bloc said on Jan 05, 2009....
    There are many points on which we disagree on this issue, but I'll focus on one interesting point. Hamas was democratically elected. You've often claimed that our war in Iraq is justified and worth the cost because the government was elected. Hamas shows that being elected doesn't mean that something is good or worth the cost.
  • D6fer said on Jan 05, 2009....
    Yes that is interesting isn't it? That means that the population of Gaza supports terrorist actions......they're getting what they deserve.
  • bloc said on Jan 05, 2009....

    That is such a naive view that it's embarrissing. Does that mean we deserve to be attacked because of electing a torturrer.
  • D6fer said on Jan 05, 2009....
    excuse me, but are the palestinians firing rockets into Israel on a regular basis or are they not?
     
  • jerusalem said on Jan 05, 2009....

    ok

    let's suppose that hamas is bad movment,what is the guilt of the innocent palestinian?

    i understand there is international law what should control us.

    also there is important peice of information : this behaviour of the israeli army was before hamas reach the authority.

    www.theblogger.co.nr

     

    .

  • stopmediabias said on Jan 05, 2009....

    The whole election of Hamas stinks.  First of all it is known they tortured and murdered people who were in opposition.  Secondly it has been pointed out that the Palestinian authority was really corrupt.  When you take a situation like Gaza, the Palestinian authority fighting with Hamas and Hamas funding schools and other projects as well as propaganda, it is not far-fetched they could win seats in the government.

    Why does Hamas keep firing rockets into Israel?  Because they know the media won't cover the story until Israel finally defends itself.  Now the propaganda, the pictures of dead children and all the mayhem by the evil Jews and their American enablers.  This a recruiting ploy for Hamas which means this conflict will never be over until Israel destroys every Arab that so much as looks cross-eyed at them.

  • jerusalem said on Jan 06, 2009....
    do name killing 560 civilians in 8 days self defence?!!
  • stopmediabias said on Jan 06, 2009....

    jerusalem- I am interested in your opinion and how you arrived at it.  Hamas is a designated terrorist organization and they keep firing rockets into one of the world's superpowers.  These people are either incredibly stupid or just trying to create another pile of anti-Israel propaganda.    

     My problem with this whole thing is what is the solution?  It is the greatest of all appalling human tragedies that  in reality 560 isn't enough.  How many people have been planted on both sides because of this conflict?  Until the radical Arab world destroys Israel and kills every Jew that lives there OR until Israel conquers every Arab country or group that threatens or attacks this is never going to end.

    I sympathize with the honest Palestinians, but after all these years where is the Palestinian version of Martin Luther King?  Someone to stand up for the Palestinians and against these nutcases that are getting everyone killed. 

    So I ask again, regardless of how savage either side is what is your solution?  

  • bloc said on Jan 07, 2009....
    I agree with a lot of your last statement smb, but the problem I have is that Israel is equally as guilty in this situation and you paint them as saints. 
  • D6fer said on Jan 07, 2009....
    bloc....how many rockets should Israel endure before it is ok to defend themselves?
  • stopmediabias said on Jan 07, 2009....

    D6-Great question!  That's would I'd like to know.

    Bloc-Certainly Israel historically has its share of blood guilt but examine both sides.  They moved out of Gaza, now people in Gaza keep attacking with these stupid rockets.  What is Israel suppose to do?

     

  • jerusalem said on Jan 07, 2009....

    smb

    i don't repeat " anti-Israel propaganda " i say facts, and i think numbers don't lie.

    but when you say " the radical Arab world  who try to destroy Israel and kills every Jew that lives there   " may be you repeat the israeli propaganda, why: there are many extrimist in every side but the jews lived for hundreds yearsin peace when they were facing  genocide in europe. 

     you asked me about the solution, in my opinion when israel  respects the human rights and un resolutions like 242,and supports the moderate palestinians to achive their state in 67 borders icluding east jerusalem city "the arabic part". i am sure that can creat the peace for all, but using the local rockets of hamas which lik the toys as reason to kill more than 680 civilians (the death counter is in progress) the means israel dosn't want the peace and think that might is right.

  • stopmediabias said on Jan 07, 2009....

    I asked you a question in another post:

    What would Hamas and the Palestinians do if Israel went back to its 1967 borders?

     

  • bloc said on Jan 08, 2009....
    that's a good question and I don't really know the answer. Here's the problem I see often. There will always be some nutjobs and radicals. The question is how many and to what extent. If we continue to let the radicals dictate the process then it's doomed to be an endless conflict. Hama is know to do aggressive things to derail the peace process, the problem I have with Israel is that they have a policy that alienates most palestinians and drives them to groups like hamas. 

    The situation will improve when Israel stops letting hamas dictate policy and puts up with some of their actions for a long enough period that the rest of the world can convince the less radical palestinians that hamas is part of the problem.
  • bloc said on Jan 08, 2009....
    to add to that, both sides will have to made some hard and unpopular concessions. This will require strong leadership on both sides which I don't think we have right now. 
  • PieterOpie said on Jan 08, 2009....
    No, there will never be peace there.   God cannot be on both sides.  
  • jerusalem said on Jan 08, 2009....
    smb
    i asked you in  that post.
     
     
  • stopmediabias said on Jan 08, 2009....

    I think, and I may be wrong that Israel would be destroyed.  It would reduce them to 8,000 square miles and make them vulnarable to attack. 

    What is interesting is right now there are no moderate Palestinians.  Even Abbas who is considered a moderate denies the Halocaust happened.

    Jerusalem-Do you think with all these radical groups and terrorists they wouldn't take an Israel move back to 1967 borders as weakness and try to completely destroy them?  Especially after all the rhetoric over the years?

     

  • bloc said on Jan 08, 2009....
    "What is interesting is right now there are no moderate Palestinians. "

    This is nonsense.

    "Do you think with all these radical groups and terrorists they wouldn't take an Israel move back to 1967 borders as weakness and try to completely destroy them?"

    This is some sort of weird psychological issue you have. You assume the world is filled with big bad wolves that will pounce whenever anyone shows weakness. If we apply your logic to both sides we will have never ending war in this world.
  • PieterOpie said on Jan 08, 2009....
    Think of the money America could have saved if they had just given Alaska to the jews or part of Florida perhaps.  So many end up there anyway....   This crap in the Middle East has no easy solution and those people love making things difficult.  Give them Alaska.  It is unpopulated and nice and roomy.  Oh.... there are some crazy people there who might shoot at them but it can't be any worse than the mess in Israel.
  • PieterOpie said on Jan 08, 2009....
    Are moose considered kosher?

     
  • D6fer said on Jan 09, 2009....
    Let the Israeli's keep what they have fought for......what a hypocritical point of view it is to deny the Israeli's the territory they occupy.....every nation on this earth fought and killed for what is now their homeland.
  • D6fer said on Jan 09, 2009....
    btw.....why not give the palestinians a new home....obviously Alaska is a stupid idea....but surely there is enough square mileage available somewhere on the earth to put them....preferably far away from civilization.
  • PieterOpie said on Jan 09, 2009....
    How dare you call my brilliant idea stupid?   I think it is inspired....  Of course you realise this means war!!!   I challenge you to a duel sir/madam.... (hopefully madam of slight build with skinny arms and weak disposition).
    I shall meet you half way between my house and yours at dawn......  after coffee of course.... and maybe some toast with jam and perhaps some juice. OK....  aybe Alaska was not ideal.  It is very primitive there as demonstrated by the barbaric locals BUT I do think the new homeland should be in the USA somewhere.  I know....  how about Utah.  There are already a bunch of religious freaks living there.  They'd blend in quite well.  Yes.... Utah it is.

    Oh... the duel is off.  I'm a devout coward.  
  • PieterOpie said on Jan 09, 2009....
    I found this by pure chance:  It was posted on the PMP board. 


    What You Don’t Know About Gaza
    By RASHID KHALIDI

    NEARLY everything you’ve been led to believe about Gaza is wrong. Below are a few essential points that seem to be missing from the conversation, much of which has taken place in the press, about Israel’s attack on the Gaza Strip.

    THE GAZANS Most of the people living in Gaza are not there by choice. The majority of the 1.5 million people crammed into the roughly 140 square miles of the Gaza Strip belong to families that came from towns and villages outside Gaza like Ashkelon and Beersheba. They were driven to Gaza by the Israeli Army in 1948.

    THE OCCUPATION The Gazans have lived under Israeli occupation since the Six-Day War in 1967. Israel is still widely considered to be an occupying power, even though it removed its troops and settlers from the strip in 2005. Israel still controls access to the area, imports and exports, and the movement of people in and out. Israel has control over Gaza’s air space and sea coast, and its forces enter the area at will. As the occupying power, Israel has the responsibility under the Fourth Geneva Convention to see to the welfare of the civilian population of the Gaza Strip.

    THE BLOCKADE Israel’s blockade of the strip, with the support of the United States and the European Union, has grown increasingly stringent since Hamas won the Palestinian Legislative Council elections in January 2006. Fuel, electricity, imports, exports and the movement of people in and out of the Strip have been slowly choked off, leading to life-threatening problems of sanitation, health, water supply and transportation.

    The blockade has subjected many to unemployment, penury and malnutrition. This amounts to the collective punishment — with the tacit support of the United States — of a civilian population for exercising its democratic rights.

    THE CEASE-FIRE Lifting the blockade, along with a cessation of rocket fire, was one of the key terms of the June cease-fire between Israel and Hamas. This accord led to a reduction in rockets fired from Gaza from hundreds in May and June to a total of less than 20 in the subsequent four months (according to Israeli government figures). The cease-fire broke down when Israeli forces launched major air and ground attacks in early November; six Hamas operatives were reported killed.

    WAR CRIMES The targeting of civilians, whether by Hamas or by Israel, is potentially a war crime. Every human life is precious. But the numbers speak for themselves: Nearly 700 Palestinians, most of them civilians, have been killed since the conflict broke out at the end of last year. In contrast, there have been around a dozen Israelis killed, many of them soldiers. Negotiation is a much more effective way to deal with rockets and other forms of violence. This might have been able to happen had Israel fulfilled the terms of the June cease-fire and lifted its blockade of the Gaza Strip.

    This war on the people of Gaza isn’t really about rockets. Nor is it about “restoring Israel’s deterrence,” as the Israeli press might have you believe. Far more revealing are the words of Moshe Yaalon, then the Israeli Defense Forces chief of staff, in 2002: “The Palestinians must be made to understand in the deepest recesses of their consciousness that they are a defeated people.”


    Rashid Khalidi, a professor of Arab studies at Columbia, is the author of the forthcoming “Sowing Crisis: The Cold War and American Dominance in the Middle East."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/08/opinion/08khalidi.html?ref=opinion

  • bloc said on Jan 09, 2009....
    "Let the Israeli's keep what they have fought for......what a hypocritical point of view it is to deny the Israeli's the territory they occupy.....every nation on this earth fought and killed for what is now their homeland."

    By this logic you justify the idea that muslims should try to destroy israel and occupy that land.
  • stopmediabias said on Jan 09, 2009....

    Bloc- if you look at the rhetoric these groups have brought forth over the years it is pretty telling.  Abbas wrote a thesis while in college with the topic being how the Halocaust  never happened.  Even the Palestinian authority (Fatah-former Arafat group) was known to be very corrupt before the terrorists took Gaza over.

    What I would like to know is if all these children are packed into Gaza along with all these people why does Hamas keep firing rockets?  They have to know eventually they are going to kill someone and when they do there will be reprisals.  If you start a war with someone you probably should be in a good strategic position or else your people are going to be killed quickly.

    There can never be a relocation of either side because of the Al-Aqsa Mosque and the Jewish Synagogue both in Jerusalum.  This might add to the arguement of destroying both.

  • jerusalem said on Jan 09, 2009....

    smb

     i've answered your question in that post.

    when you say "  there are no moderate Palestinians" ,that means you repeat again the israeli propaganda ;because their leader said before "the good palestinian is the dead palestinian" althought they have lived toghter hundreds of years in peace till the zionist project.

    you said  " denies the Halocaust happened ",that is not true ,and i am sure you have not  one source supporting this talk .not only that ,the palestinian people don't care about this historical fact because they didn't make the halocaust,they are victims of new halocaust.

    i hope you lsiten to the lessons of the jewish clerics who urge their army to kill the palestinian children and name the arab people "animal names".

    so  would you be honest and tell me who are the terrorists?

  • jerusalem said on Jan 09, 2009....

    smb

    you think that "There can never be a relocation of either side because of the Al-Aqsa Mosque and the Jewish Synagogue both in Jerusalum.  This might add to the arguement of destroying both." !!!

    there were  many islamic , christian and jewish places for hundreds years and muslims saved them, but now israel tries to destroy al-aqsa mosque to put end for the arabic beeing in jerusalem,although there are many resolutions of s.c. and u.n. supporting the palestinian rights in the city.

    www.theblogger.co.nr

  • D6fer said on Jan 10, 2009....
    bloc....isn't that their goal? (the muslims)
    It is Israels right to defend themselves......you haven't answered my question.....how many rockets should Hamas be allowed to fire into Israel before they can defend themselves?
  • bloc said on Jan 10, 2009....
    @smb
    "What I would like to know is if all these children are packed into Gaza along with all these people why does Hamas keep firing rockets?  They have to know eventually they are going to kill someone and when they do there will be reprisals.  If you start a war with someone you probably should be in a good strategic position or else your people are going to be killed quickly"

    I don't think you understand the strategy of hamas. They win when Israel over reacts.

    @d6
    "how many rockets should Hamas be allowed to fire into Israel before they can defend themselves?"

    There are many ways to defend oneself. I don't see how Israel's current strategy will benefit them in any way. Now that Israel has sent in ground troops what is the end game?
  • D6fer said on Jan 10, 2009....
    That is an answer?  What exactly should they do bloc?
  • bloc said on Jan 10, 2009....
    They should get some other countries, and US and some country like Egypt, and make a serious effort at a two state solution. They should stop doing things like their illegal settlements and make it clear to everyone that they are doing the right thing and that they want peace. They need to make some concessions and convince the moderates in the arab world that they are serious about this.

    While doing that they should use intel to try and track down and kill leaders of groups that do things like fire rockets into israel.

    Now answer my question. 
  • D6fer said on Jan 10, 2009....

    I thnk you kind of just aswered it yourself didn't you? Aren't the tracking down those that fire the rockets by sending in the ground troops?

    What other countries support Israel? Haven't they hammered out many peace proposals in the past? And all get broken by the Palestinian violence.

    So what is the end game to Hamas firing rockets into Israel?

  • jerusalem said on Jan 10, 2009....
    and i am sure that the rockets of hamas are not the reason ,they are result of occupation and the daily agession against civilians in gaza and west bank.
  • stopmediabias said on Jan 10, 2009....

    Jerusalem

    "you said  " denies the Halocaust happened ",that is not true ,and i am sure you have not  one source supporting this talk .not only that ,the palestinian people don't care about this historical fact because they didn't make the halocaust,they are victims of new halocaust."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Abbas

    Sorry but I don't buy any of it.  Throughout the years Israel has been attacked in virtually all aspects of life and every time there is even close to an agreement of peace some Arab group steps in and lets it all fall to pieces.

    The two religious sites have been a major source of tension.  If there was a crator replacing both of them and the worlds civilized countries "claimed reponsibility" then the tension would be gone.  Its like two children playing with the same toy, take the toy away and the arguement ends.

    You know if Israel went back to 1967 borders it would mean their demise.   

     

  • jerusalem said on Jan 11, 2009....

    smb,

    you know that wikipedia is edited by Volunteers and we cann't consider it credible  source like the  academic or official source ,specialy you names of israeli papers (like haaretz) in that page as original source.

    and  we don't need this talk because all the actions of mr.abbas say that he support the peace  and respect the israeli rights as well as he defends the palestinian rights.

    also i'd like to thank you that you announced your atittude .67 border " the legitimate  border".

    israel continued in peace between 48 and 67 but its leaders refused this peace in 56 when they attacked egypt and occupied most of sainai and in 67 when they occupied  sainai ,syrian golan ,west bank and gaza strip although although 67 border gives israel  more specific area of the un resolution which established israel 67 boreders gives israel 78% of the historical land of palestine ,but un resolution gives it 56% only,and noe you think 22% is to many for the palestinians (the original population).

  • stopmediabias said on Jan 12, 2009....

    The statement that Mr. Abbas is a halocaust denier is true or someone in Wiki would have pointed it out.  While I am in agreement with you that at least he is trying to make peace.  But it doesn't speak well for Palestinians to have a halocaust denier as someone to make peace with Jews.

    The land that Israel gained was all part of different conflicts in which they won.  These Arab nations started these wars then cried because they lost.  And you really want talk history, who historically as more right to the land?  Mohammed conquered about everything he gained and he came long after the Jews. 

    How is this even relevant?  Israel gave Gaza back.  Did it get them any closer to peace?  Has any gesture of peace by Israel stopped any of these threats from these Arab countries like Iran?  Does it make sense for Israel to pull back to '67 borders for a group of people that won't even acknowledge their existence?

     

  • bloc said on Jan 13, 2009....
    "The statement that Mr. Abbas is a halocaust denier is true or someone in Wiki would have pointed it out. "

    I'm going to hold you to this statement for things you don't agree with.
  • stopmediabias said on Jan 13, 2009....
    In reality I have heard that in other sources.  If the information on Wiki was a flat-out lie it would be corrected because the info favors conservatives more than liberals.
  • jerusalem said on Jan 13, 2009....
    about the "  These Arab nations who started these wars then cried because they lost" ,arabs didn't start any war because the israeli crimes started from 1937 so the arab nations just went to the wars to save the civilian palestinians who faced the genocide.
    i agree with you that arabs lost some of these wars ,but because they respect the law and their culture doesn't accept attacking the civilians .
    about the prophet muhammed (pbuh), although it's npt our issue but let me correct your information< muslims didn't gain any land by force but they used the force to liberate the people who wanted to enter islam .
    your  last words mean that you don't respect the international law, you respect only the force ,so you shouldn't blame hamas,now i think hamas understands israel more than other palestinians.
  • stopmediabias said on Jan 13, 2009....

    Jer-I can assume you are a Muslim and I have to warn you this is uncensored blogging, so be prepared.

    If Muslims were smart they would convert to Christianity.  Islam has become perverted because they agree with the radicals who are destroying their reputation.  After you profess your faith, pray five times a day, give to the poor, make the journey to Mecca, and fast once a year, when do you begin killing people who are and aren't part of your religion?  Where does that fit in to the five pilars?

    If you were part of the Jewish leadership would you hand over land to groups of people who have called for the extinction of your people for many years?

     And I'm curious, if the Native Americans in this country started blowing up children should the United States just hand back all the land they took from them?

     

     

     

  • bloc said on Jan 13, 2009....
    so you admit that the US committed genocide against the native americans?
  • jerusalem said on Jan 14, 2009....

    :-)

    yes i am muslim and proud.

    i accept your " warning". but you sould be carefull  when you choose  your words becaause  i will not accept any infringement against my religion.

    you said "If Muslims were smart they would convert to Christianity" this logic means   "if christians  were smart they would convert to judaism   ", but what you don't know that muslims are smart enogh because they belive in jesus and he has great rank in islam ( also we didn't kill any prophet like some folks!!).we belive in all prophets and respect all religions.

     you said " when do you begin killing people who are and aren't part of your religion"  !!! who told you that in islam we couldn't kill even cat because our religion refuse that (but judaism urges that, read the talks and the lessons of the israeli clergy",  the killing in your religion is so easy and your talk proove that , you justify killing hunreds of innocent with cold blood.

    if want to correct your information about islam you can visit:

    http://thetruereligion.com/

    http://sultan.org/

    http://discover.islamway.com/

    http://english.islamweb.net/ver2/archive/index2.php?vPart=36&startno=1&thelang=E

    but this isn't our subject ,our subject the israeli war crimes which you justify.

     you can accept  many crimes but you have no right to promot misleading propaganda against the religions of others.

  • stopmediabias said on Jan 14, 2009....

    Bloc-of course

    Jer-I respect that me and you worship the same God and I believe this conflict between Jews and Arabs is related to our subject.

    Maybe you can clarify or help me with certain problems I have with Islam.  First let me acknowledge I am an apostate Christian and recognize that Christians have a fair share of historical blood on their hands.

    One problem:  Islam agrees with the Holy Bible and part company when Abraham tells Ishmael to hit the road.  So by this Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are connected and can agree on one basic premise that there is one God.  Yet the Koran preaches some of the worst hatred anyone could imagine.

    Another problem: Why do some Islamic schools teach that it is correct to kill and hate Jews and worse why is this allowed and not shunned by other members of Islam?  Even the Muslims in this country as part of the Nation of Islam preach this hatred of Jews. 

    Is there ever going to be peace when one group hates another just because they practice a certain religion?

     

     

     

  • jerusalem said on Jan 15, 2009....

     

    you admit admit that the US committed genocide against the native americans !! and you justify the warcrimes of the israeli bastards!!

    let me teach you something, whatever your religion when you support the criminals you become partner in their crimes, i know many respectable jews who refuse the israeli crimes, but i didn't find before any one talking easly about killing as you talk. crime is crime whatever and wherever. and know that palestinians are not red indians they had  built civilization befor establishing  usa.

    the israeli lobby  use the money and the media to control the american policy ,but why people like you justify their crimes, don't you have children or borthers ?! do you accept to see them victims of warcrimes??

    you again promot anti-islam propaganda "

    " Yet the Koran preaches some of the worst hatred anyone could imagine." , " Why do some Islamic schools teach that it is correct to kill and hate Jews and worse why is this allowed and not shunned by other members of Islam?  Even the Muslims in this country as part of the Nation of Islam preach this hatred of Jews.  "

    quran doesn't preach any hatred , the problem is the misleading explanation of  islam enemies,  islam word  means the peace religion .if you learn the truth of islam you will know how islam enshrines the peace, we name the god "alsalam" or peace, our greeting in islam is " pece be upon you"  ,you talked about the extremists schools, so you should visit any jewish school in israel and listen to their pure hatred against  non-jews. but the muslims extremists few percentage and they take their push from the israeli daily crimes against all palestinians (muslims and christians) , but the extremist jews are the most of the israeli people, they cry the nazi crimes and they repeat  that against the palestinian people who save them hundreds years.

     

  • stopmediabias said on Jan 16, 2009....

    you admit admit that the US committed genocide against the native americans !! and you justify the warcrimes of the israeli bastards!!

    During the beginning of our country we killed a lot of indians and took a lot of land, every culture has some kind of stain ingrained in their history.

    let me teach you something, whatever your religion when you support the criminals you become partner in their crimes

    Are you kidding me?  Beslan, research Beslan where Muslim terrorists took over a school and slaughtered a bunch of people including a bunch of children.  I'm not going to say you agree with these actions because reasonable civilized people don't purposely murder children. 

    the israeli lobby  use the money and the media to control the american policy ,but why people like you justify their crimes, don't you have children or borthers ?! do you accept to see them victims of warcrimes??

    The Israeli lobby doesn't control shit and this a great fantasy put out by the radicals.  If the Jews controled America do you think there would be a Hamas, a PLO, a Hezbollah? 

    When exactly has Israel or the Jews killed anyone without provokation?

    you again promot anti-islam propaganda

    You know there are verses in the Koran that talk of specific acts of violence on Jews and Christians.  If I can quote them you certainly can.  Granted the Bible is filled was pretty harsh stuff but is there a specific verses that point to murdering people because they have a different religion?

     islam word  means the peace religion .if you learn the truth of islam you will know how islam enshrines the peace, we name the god "alsalam" or peace, our greeting in islam

    Bullshit!  If there is a tiny single shred of truth to this statement every fucking Muslim in the world would have taken to the streets and raised holy hell after the Beslan incident.  There may be peacefull Muslims but where are they?  Are they afraid?  If a bunch of Christian radicals pulled something like this they would be outcasts and shunned but you people welcome them in like they are heros. 

    Draw a cartoon about Islam and good God the world has come to end but kill some innocent children and who cares?  Is this your religion of peace?  Muslims don't want peace if they wanted peace they would have made it many many years ago.  The only thing they want is to wipe out a group of people because they practice a certain religion.  Keep on this path, the civilized world is getting sick of it and everyday all it does is hurt reasonable ignorant Muslims.

     

  • jerusalem said on Jan 16, 2009....

    if you admit  and agree that US committed genocide against the native americans ,that is your attitude .  i dissagree and this is my atittude ,even "every culture has some kind of stain ingrained in their history. " as you said  that doesn't mean every culture accept that.

     you said :  " You know there are verses in the Koran that talk of specific acts of violence on Jews and Christians.  ". that is the real "Bullshit" . look quraan is not secret . and you can read it and i cahalange if you find one word against any religion. but if you can't, you shouldn't repeat this stupid talk again.

     when you talk about " Beslan " or any violence of any muslim. that means you have nothing to say. muslims aren't  saints, and their community as every community in the world has good, bad people and criminals. and if i use your sick logic , ican say christians are terorrists because hitler and then caraditch killed millions of innocents and jews are criminals because sharon, olmert,pingoreon and many of their bastard leaders committed war crimes. but i did,t say that i just refuse the warcrimes of the "israeli " leaders which you support and many jews refused them. you can visit:

    www.nkuk.org

    www.nkusa.org

    www.ijsn.net

     so when i refuse the "israeli" crimes i don't hate the jews , but anyone reads your low talk against muslaims can feel your hatred.

  • jerusalem said on Jan 16, 2009....

    this war is because of historical and ideolgical reasons , so don't paint it as religional war.

    and wahtever the civilized state respects the law.

  • stopmediabias said on Jan 16, 2009....

     You are making me laugh with this pure blindness. 

    Here is the situation:

    Hamas (a terrorist organization as labeled by a majority of the civilized world) slimes its way into Gaza and turns it into a sewer.  They engrain themselves in the midst of the population around schools and children.  Then after Israel pulls every Jew out of Gaza and they (from the civilian population) start lobbing rockets into Israel.  Israel retaliates and suddenly all these dead children and innocent people are thrown in our faces while Hamas parks cameras outside of hospitals.

    Now Israel is the big bad occupier killing innocents.

    Hamas has not even the slightest chance of beating anyone in an actual conflict so why are they lobbing rockets?  It is obvious they are doing it so they can create more propaganda.

    Now if a terrorist Jewish group mixed into the population of Israel started lobbing rockets at Iran or Syria what would they do?  What would be there response?

    You people are sick with blind hatred to the point you can't see the obvious, that no matter what Israel does, no matter how many ceasefires or truces, until YOU PEOPLE get rid of people like Hamas this problem will never end.

    Just answer one question:  What is Israel suppose to do in the short term to stop these rockets?

  • bloc said on Jan 16, 2009....
    " slimes its way"

    That's a funny way of describing an election.

    " Hamas has not even the slightest chance of beating anyone in an actual conflict so why are they lobbing rockets?  It is obvious they are doing it so they can create more propaganda."

    Exactly, which is why it's stupid for israel to respond in the way hamas wants.

    " What is Israel suppose to do in the short term to stop these rockets?"

    the assumption that they can do anything to stop them in the short term is flawed. What they have chosen to do will only make the situation worse in the long run.
  • stopmediabias said on Jan 17, 2009....

    Hamas has good funding which means they have the money to buy just about anything.

    "Exactly, which is why it's stupid for israel to respond in the way hamas wants. "

    This is my main question here.  These rockets have killed over 13 people so what are they suppose to do? 

    These cockroaches have posted people outside of hospitals after they started this with Israel and what dominates the news?  Israeli war crimes?  Is there anything more despicable than a group of people who know if they lauch rockets it will bring retaliation and certain death and destruction, and they do it in civilian areas where children are?  Every Muslim in the world should call to squash Hamas and give the Palestinians someone who will represent the interests of them not the interest of killing Jews.


     

  • bloc said on Jan 17, 2009....
    "Hamas has good funding which means they have the money to buy just about anything."

    This is true in most elections, including america. I'm not disagreeing with you about hama, but you seem to have a double standard on this.

    This problem will never be solved because there are too many people like you on the both sides (completely one sided).


  • D6fer said on Jan 17, 2009....
    Seems to me the argument here is "who should fire the last shot?"
    not really fair if you consider hamas will not settle for one rocket......no other countries will step in....even after a few months or years of rocket fire.
     
    If hamas had a nuke would they use it? I think the answer is yes!
     
    Does Israel possess nukes? Yes. Do they use them? no....at least not yet.
     
    If Hamas fired rockets into a Israeli school and killed 100 children, they would dance in the streets of Palestine.......do Israelis do that when Palestinians are killed? no.
     
    There are distinct and profound differences here.
  • jerusalem said on Jan 17, 2009....

    smb:

    i won't continue debate  about that because you  accept many things i refuse and try to twist the truth.

    bu i sohld correct some information:

    -israel viloated the truce with hamas many times and killed 560 before the last massacre.

    -the israeli victims are abou 10 (3 of them civilians). but the palestinian civilian victims in the last massacre -till this moment_are more than 1170 (half of them children and women)

    but i'll answer yor qusetion:"  What is Israel suppose to do in the short term to stop these rockets".

    the answer is easy: "to respect the law".

     

    n.w.

    www.theblogger.co.nr

     

     

  • jerusalem said on Jan 17, 2009....

    bloc:

    Hamas is not the problem , hamas is  result of the crimes of the israeli bastards,

    israel didn't attack oly hamas they attacked "plo" before , israel refused the arabic iniative which guarntee israeli exist and protection and their propaganda tries to paint thier war that they fight the "evil muslims" who want to destroy israel although palestinian people is muslims and christians, even the radical and extremist muslims they didn't give israel any reason to start any war.

    the israelies say hamas put their rockets in the schools!!! but they couldn't give one evidence supporting this lie,they attacked the hospital and then un schools and said the same lie then "unrwa" responsables said that wasn't true.

    they attacked even cemeteries and the media buildings, and prevented them from covering their crimes (israeli troops killed 2 journalsits in this war).

    D6fer:  the problem here is who respects the law and who violate it. let's imagine that there is hamas movement ,do you think israel would accept the palestinian state? they would say this people is bad and we have the right to clean palestine of them and establishing the greatest israel .their leaders said before the good palestinian is the dead palestinian. they find great pleasure when thy kill any palestinian, there were many og their leader who were wanted in many countreis because of their war crimes "bingoreon and shamir in uk,sharon in uk and netherlands". and all their crimes are documented . i have some examples (www.sabrashatila.org   www.palestineremembered.com  )

    so don't expect any peace of them .

    n.w.

    www.theblogger.co.nr

  • bloc said on Jan 17, 2009....
    "Hamas is not the problem , hamas is  result of the crimes of the israeli bastards"

    Both sides are almost equally to blame. You're points are almost identical to those of smb, but from the other side. They lack the same integrity that his does.

    "the israelies say hamas put their rockets in the schools!!! but they couldn't give one evidence supporting this lie'

    You can't deny that hamas fires rockets into israel and at civilians. Your statement misses the point.

    " the problem here is who respects the law and who violate it."

    Neither sides respects the law, both sides violate it.
  • jerusalem said on Jan 18, 2009....
    bloc: we cann't say "Both sides are almost equally to blame " , hamas killed 11 (3 of them are civilians), israel killed 1203 (half of them women and children) and injured more than 5000, so they aren't equally to blame ,israel attacked urwoa schools ,worship places and the hospitals ,also its army used internationally banned weapons and refused the resolution of cease-fire, so they aren't equally to blame. you said: "Neither sides respects the law, both sides violate it. " yes and i agree with you and i sid before i am not with hamas (although hamas leaders gave many reason to attack israel ,like the blockaed and the daily attacks of the israeli troops). when i say the law is the solution i mean if israel respected the international law and let the palestinian build their own state we will put the end of this conflict. but the islaei stae refused that many times.
  • stopmediabias said on Jan 18, 2009....

    I have said many times that Israel has its fair share of blood on its hands.  And certainly we can sight instances where Israeli brutality outweighs the reasons for it.  But the history of Hamas and its designation by the world community makes this arguement silly to compare the two.  Can Arabs be around Jews in Israel?  Yes (maybe as second class citizens)  Can Jews be around the Arabs that represent Hamas?  NO!  They would kill them immediatly. 

    Jer-You have said Israel is suppose to "respect the law" how do they respect the law and stop these rockets from hitting their cities?

    Plus an important question to ask you:  Why is Hamas doing this?  I understand the overall conflict between the two sides,  you are agrueing that Hamas started or retaliated due to Israeli aggression.  But a handful of rebels in civilian areas launching rockets into random civilian areas in Israel?  The only political means this will reach is chaos.

     

  • t44s said on Jan 18, 2009....
    I agree with the guy who stated that every place in the world has been fought over and won with blood. No matter how civilized we think we are, this is a fact. It's sad but true. Americans from Europe conquered the land of native Americans, Russians conquered the land of numerous Asian tribes to claim the largest land area in the world, and yes, Israel was built on land inhabited by indigenous tribes (Arabs AND Jews). I'm sure the history of every country has stories of violent power struggles which defined the status quo.
    My problem with the current situation in Palestine is most Muslim's reaction to the present day reality. Namely, refusing to accept that Israel DOES EXIST, even after millions of Arabs have done their best to destroy her. Like it or not the Palestinians ARE a defeated people. I point to the example of The American Indians. They are now living peaceful lives and doing business as normal people. The post-world war 2 Germans and Japanese are among the most successful and peaceful people in the world. How do you think they'd be doing if they'd insisted on fighting after they'd been decisively defeated? Do you think any of them would even be alive to complain? I doubt it.
    So why do the Palestinians and their friends keep making war with an enemy they can't defeat? I think it's because there are so many people in the world that encourage them (and pay and equip them), so many Muslims who really expect to destroy Israel. They make a big fuss when Israel, which fights literally for it's survival, responds to them with force. They like to portray Israelis as barbarians. Just imagine their Quasam rockets falling in a Muslim country instead of Israel. Then we'd be talking about a massacre of many thousands rather than the 1100 so far in this last military action by Israel.
    My message to the Palestinians is this: ask your friends for money and medicine instead of rockets and bombs, forget about the past as much as possible, and live in peace with your neighbors. Practice family planning and teach your kids science instead of hatred. Overpopulating your land with ignorant and hateful people won't help you, neither will the death of Israel (which won't happen any time soon). Peace be upon you. I am a Jew from America who doesn't want you to suffer any more.
  • bloc said on Jan 18, 2009....
    @t44s

    I think you have a contradiction in your logic. If history is a litany of violent power struggles then it makes perfect sense for the palestinians to figth israel for land.

    "I point to the example of The American Indians. They are now living peaceful lives and doing business as normal people."

    Only because we committed genocide and killed almost all of them.

    "The post-world war 2 Germans and Japanese are among the most successful and peaceful people in the world."

    We didn't take their land.

    "So why do the Palestinians and their friends keep making war with an enemy they can't defeat? "

    To get land based on your premise!

    "ask your friends for money and medicine instead of rockets and bombs, forget about the past as much as possible, and live in peace with your neighbors."

    This will only work if Israel and the palestinians make some hard concessions.

    " I am a Jew from America who doesn't want you to suffer any more. "

    This should really read, "I am a jew who wants you to do as I say or I will make you suffer".

  • stopmediabias said on Jan 19, 2009....

    T44-Very well said and I agree with you. 

    Bloc-The Palestinians are not fighting for land, they don't want land, they want death to Israel.  Remember Israel gave the PA Gaza and they turned it into a war zone.  Israel acquired the land in wars they won and then gave it back to them.

    Concessions?  This is just silly to me.  This like making concessions with an aligator so he won't eat your family.  Even now, there is a ceasefire and what is going to amount to?  All Hamas did was create another excuse to make war. 

  • jerusalem said on Jan 19, 2009....

    t44s

    i should correct some misleading information:

    arab nations accepted the exist of israel in offecial resolutions see "the arabic iniative",not only that but hamas accepted the israeli exist,they struggle to end the israeli occupation and i think that is their right as freedom fighter. but the israeli probaganda paints them as mad terrorists,because israel refused restablishing the palestinian state and refused the un resolution.

    you said: "every place in the world has been fought over and won with blood. No matter how civilized we think we are", but the civilized nations only who could continue, if you read the history well you will find that nazi put their end when they didn't respect the law, also the roman empire and we have many examples.

    when you want to swim in sea of blood that means your end is so near.

    about you are jew,i know that their are many jews and even israelies  who refuse the israeli crimes in their name,see:

    www.nkusa.org

    www.jcpa.org/

    www.jewsagainstzionism.com

    www.nkuk.org

     ,not only that but there is sect of jews who lives in west bank and refused to join israel ,i know their arabic name"mawsaweoun" and idon't know its translation.

    whatever i am sure the civilzed satate cann't accept commetting warcrimes against innocent people.

    and if we realy want the solution ,it's so easy (2 satate for 2 peoples) but israel refuses that.

    www.theblogger.co.nr

     

  • stopmediabias said on Jan 19, 2009....

    Jer-Your statements are showing you are either full of shit or completely ignorant.

    "arab nations accepted the exist of israel in offecial resolutions see "the arabic iniative",not only that but hamas accepted the israeli exist,they struggle to end the israeli occupation and i think that is their right as freedom fighter. but the israeli probaganda paints them as mad terrorists,because israel refused restablishing the palestinian state and refused the un resolution."

    First Hamas, some quotes:

    "...the Jewish faith does not wish for peace nor stability, since it is a faith that is based on murder: 'I kill, therefore I am'... Israel is based only on blood and murder in order to exist, and it will disappear, with Allah's will, through blood and Shahids [martyrs]."
    (Dr. Yussuf Al-Sharafi, Hamas representative, April 12, 2007; as reported by Palestinian Media Watch, April 23, 2007)

    and

    "[Hamas will] never recognize the legitimacy of the Zionist state that was founded on our land."
    (Khaled Mashaal, Hamas leader, February 3, 2006, Al-Hayyat al-Jedida)

    http://www.adl.org/main_Israel/hamas_own_words.htm

    Then this talk of the Arab initiative shows you haven't done your homework.  First of all not all Arabs (as you claim) excepted this peace agreement.  Second Hamas was one of the few groups who outright rejected it and went so far as to kill a bunch of people during the 2002 summit. 

    Here are some notable quotes similar to Hamas':

    "The struggle for world domination will be fought entirely between us, between Germans and Jews.  All else is facade and illusion.  Behind England stands Israel, and behind France, and behind the United States.  Even when we have driven the Jew out of Germany, he remains our world enemy.

    "If only one country, for whatever reason, tolerates a Jewish family in it, that family will become the germ center for fresh sedition. If one little Jewish boy survives without any Jewish education, with no synagogue and no Hebrew school, it [Judaism] is in his soul. Even if there had never been a synagogue or a Jewish school or an Old Testament, the Jewish spirit would still exist and exert its influence. It has been there from the beginning and there is no Jew, not a single one, who does not personify it."

    "The internal expurgation of the Jewish spirit is not possible in any platonic way.  For the Jewish spirit as the product of the Jewish person.  Unless we expel the Jewish people.  Unless we expel the Jewish people soon, they will have judaized our people within a very short time."

    These are from Adolf Hitler, but they sound familiar. 

     http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/hitler-quotes.htm

    You also seem to constantly site the Neturel Karta as if this means something.  These people are a bunch of fruitcakes and you mentioning them unearths a big contradiction.  The Neturel Karta believe Israel should not exist at all and you have stated you believe Israel should revert back to '67 borders, so which is it?

    If Israel didn't want some measure of peace why did they pull of Gaza in 2005?

    http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/ExodusFromGaza.html

    "But in August 2005, in a period of just seven days, 21 Jewish communities were forcibly removed by their own government, as Israel became the first country in modern history to relinquish land acquired in a defensive war to an enemy that had not yet made peace with it. "

    So I'm sorry but I think you are either a complete fraud (sheltercrow maybe?)or woefully ignorant.  

     

  • bloc said on Jan 19, 2009....
    @smb

    You have this terrible habit of conflating palestinians generally with hamas which you use to make illogical arguments. 
  • stopmediabias said on Jan 20, 2009....
    The Palestinians (as pointed out by you) voted in Hamas and it is safe to say the majority of them are Palestinians.
  • jerusalem said on Jan 20, 2009....

    smb.

    it's fine to get you the chance to express your low  manner, you couldn't face my logic so you abuse.

    no problem but i'll expose  your ignorance and fraud:

    * you used 3 links : (" www.adl.org  "  which  is financed by mosad with other sites like "aish,memri and debka, -www.simpletoremember.com and www.tomgrossmedia.com which is financed by jewish agency -the zionist agency  the creator of the israeli state. ) so what you repeat is just stupid propaganda. that while i gave you not only neutral sources but jewsih sources.

    so don't try to play this game with me, play it with ignorant racist like you.

    about "Arab initiative " : 22 arab states offered it,  if deney this fact you would be blind , about the people "who went kill a bunch of people during the 2002 summit" ,they were the israeli troops who prevented the palestinian presidenet to go to the summit and then killed him by prison, and committed many war crimes in that time ( sharon is judged as war criminal,and now he is wanted in netherland ).

    about "the representative of hamas" ,sure there are many directions of hamas ,but the total atittude they accepted the solution of 2 states which is refused by the israeli war criminals.

    about "nk" : your narrow mind couldn't accept different thought.

    now you repeat hitler talks and cry his crime !! but you admit the same crimes in gaza!!

     

     

  • jerusalem said on Jan 20, 2009....

    bloc:

     i couldn't find any common ground with "smb" , i find that we shouldn't be spectators towrds the  crises .

    i am not palestinian and also i don't hate jews but i refuse the israeli policy  and i imagine that the if the image of the dead body of palestinia child is my son or my brother what would be my feeling?! and i wonder what's deserve that?!

    it's not only my atittude or the atittude of the "evil" arabs,there are many israelies think like me.

  • stopmediabias said on Jan 20, 2009....

    Jer-I think you are fairly able to handle my "abuse."  The anti-defamation league is a non-profit organization that exposes all forms of racism.  

    "so don't try to play this game with me, play it with ignorant racist like you."

    Racist?  If you were a public figure, with just the statements you've made in this blog you would be run out of town.

    "about the people "who went kill a bunch of people during the 2002 summit" ,they were the israeli troops who prevented the palestinian presidenet to go to the summit and then killed him by prison, and committed many war crimes in that time ( sharon is judged as war criminal,and now he is wanted in netherland )"

    The Palestinian president was Yassar Arafat, a cockroach who ran the Palestinians into the ground.  Sharon is dead, and before he died he defied his own country and yanked Jewish settlements out Gaza while being outspoken about creating a Palestinian state.

    "about "the representative of hamas" ,sure there are many directions of hamas ,but the total atittude they accepted the solution of 2 states which is refused by the israeli war criminals."

    This is what I find puzzling.  I quoted Hamas in to show a direct contradiction to your earlier statements and you say there are "many directions of Hamas" which leads me to believe you don't have a problem with these statements.  You really can't see the major similarities between the statements of Hitler and Hamas? 

    Do you even see Hamas a terrorist organization? 

    "now you repeat hitler talks and cry his crime !! but you admit the same crimes in gaza!!"

    Same crimes in Gaza???  What is wrong with you?

    And Holy Shit!!!  Would the Palestinian children in Gaza be dead if Hamas focused on building a country for Palestinians instead of lobbing rockets into Israel???!!!!  This present conflict was started by cowardly Hamas rockets and every single drop of blood in this present conflict is on Hamas or should I say Arab hands.  That's not racism that is the pure truth. 

     

     

     

  • t44s said on Jan 20, 2009....
    bloc:  you incorrectly characterized the intent of my words when you wrote: "This should really read, "I am a jew who wants you to do as I say or I will make you suffer"."   It may be just a mistake on your part, or possibly a reflection of some prejudice you have, but I am not blogging with the intent of being offensive myself, so I'll not be any more blunt than that.
         I simply made some suggestions imagining myself in the place of the Palestinians. I have no desire to make them suffer. Even if I did, their leadership has already brought them much more suffering than I ever could. Of course the Palestinians have the option of fighting for what they want like every one else who is alive. I just don't see the logic in the position of "you took my land 60 years ago so I'm going to throw rocks at tanks, send my teeanagers to be suicide bombers, and shoot rockets at your city." I understand that some in this world, such as the government of Iran who has used children to clear mine fields and glorifies suicide in the name of religion, find this a reasonable strategy, but you are American if I am not mistaken. You have enjoyed life in a relatively safe and modern country. Do you really think acting like kamakazees is the most prudent course of action and the only option for the Palestinians? I surely don't.
          I have a new proposal to bring peace to the middle east: how about an Islamic Walmart? There's a built in market there. Between women who could be stoned to death if they don't wear lots of clothing, and men who have multiple wives and numerous children, sales would be thru the roof!
    Okay, there would be a few details to work out. For example, I would not recommend cutting off the hands of shoplifters since we could lose their business in the future. Also, perhaps some of you might have ideas about how best to discourage discharging of automatic weapons in the women's clothing department. It just doesn't create a good atmosphere for shopping. Finally, I'm sure management would be interested in an innovative approach to doing business with infidels. Between Christians with their crazy spending for Christmas, and Jews buying everything (you know they are all rich bastards), Walmart stockholders would become the biggest cheerleaders for Palestine. Yea!!
         Yes, this is toungue in cheek, but my point remains the same: making a living is much better than making war, especially when you lose evey time.
  • t44s said on Jan 20, 2009....
    SMB:   If we ever meet I want to buy you a drink. I agree with all your posts-  on the middle east conflict, and also regarding the holy places in Jerusalem.  I see that organized religions of most types (including mine) have been twisted and used as an excuse for killing and discrimination. I support Israel's right to exist 100%, but I couldn't care less if every one of the "holy places" was bulldozed and turned in to a new Walmart (see my last post).  
  • bloc said on Jan 20, 2009....
    what you said is that palestinians must accept the terms as you dictated or else they deserve being bombed.

    "I just don't see the logic in the position of "you took my land 60 years ago so I'm going to throw rocks at tanks, send my teeanagers to be suicide bombers, and shoot rockets at your city.""

    This is a mischaracterization. Israel has actively built illegal settlements into the present day. You have erected a simplified illusion in your mind of what this issue is about and it does not reflect the complexities of the reality. For example, firing rockets into israel is not "acting like kamakazees". You ask if their strategy is reasonable to me as an american, well I think Bush's strategy is equally unreasonable so I don't know what point you are trying to make. 
  • stopmediabias said on Jan 21, 2009....

    T4-ROFL-That is hilarious!  We can put the Walmart on the way to Mecca, imagine the cold drinks, slingshots(for when they stone the devil) and feet sanitizer they'd sell.

    Bloc-illegal settlements is not the issue here.  The Israelis made huge concessions and hurt their own people when they yanked out all of their own from Gaza.  So does it make any sense for Hamas to keep up the rocket attacks?  Israel's blockade and staunch protection of their borders (can't imagine why) is a problem for Hamas and Gaza.  OK, so why not go to the international community and say this and find a reasonable solution?  Instead they lob near 3,000 rockets in the last year, it makes no sense (as T4 brilliantly alluded to) unless you see Hamas as a bunch of despicable insects, then is makes perfect sense.

  • t44s said on Jan 21, 2009....
    Bloc: there you go again, twisting my words to suit your own imagination. First, I never dictated anything. I only made suggestions. Second, where did I say anyone deserves to be bombed? I never said any such thing. 
      About kamikazees: I disagree with you. I would exactly characterize launching rockets at a far superior military force as being a kamikazee. Everyone knows what will happen as a result.
    About "illegal" settlements, land, ect. The Palestinians have legimtimate grievances around these issues, which should be brought to the table in negotiations. The thing is: who can place any credibility in them when they openly advocate the destruction of Israel? I feel sorry for Palestinian civilians like most people in the world. Their long time leader Arafat was a crook who took millions in foreign aid and did little for his people. Now they are led by Islamists who embrace martyrdom, and are doing a good job of getting it. Like SMB said, they need a leader more like Martin Luther King. Here's to hoping he arrives sometime soon.    
      
  • jerusalem said on Jan 21, 2009....

     

    if Hamas refuses the solution of 2 states why they accepted  to go to the eclection in 2006 ,this election is result of agrrements with israel which accepted this solution.

    whatever there is the law what should be respected from every side. but i don't understand killing 1300 civilian  palestinians for just 11 israeli victims and sey "we defend ourself" ,while they "say eye for eye" !!

    i find here many wrong information, like "The Israelis made huge concessions and hurt their own people when they yanked out all of their own from Gaza" ,gaza is just 2% of palestine area and sure palestinians don't struggle to liberate gaza from 8500 israelies who lived between 1.5 millions of palestinians.

    "women who could be stoned to death " ," men who have multiple wives "  , all this talk is just anti-islamic prpaganda.

    when you take some accedent of extrmist muslims like taliban or whatever and say look that is the "evil" islam . that means you try to con the world, because muslims are about 1.4 bilions and sure all of them aren't saints or moderates. and even you refuse some of their traditions that doesn't mean you have right to kill them to establish the "greatest israel".

     i gave links before about the reality of the muslims belief.

    i know many information about  things like that  in bible and many words which urge to kill the non-jews in jerusalem ,but irefuse to transmit our origin subject from "war on gaza"  to "comparison between religion using misleading information".

    i think my points are very clear and i repeat them:

    i refuse the israeli warcrimes  ,i respect the israeli right of exist and live in peace  as long as it respect the same right for its neighbours and i see the solution in middleeast is 2 state for 2 peoples and peace and safty for all.

  • t44s said on Jan 21, 2009....

    Jerusalem: if all the Arabs were like you there would be peace very soon. I really believe that. You seem to be a thoughtful and fair person. Of course we probably don't agree on everything, but most people don't. I apologize if my sense of humor offended you. I was joking in order to keep the conversation friendly. I didn't mean to say that all Muslims are radical. I know all of them are not.  I don't pretend to have all the answers for peace in the middle east, but I do firmly believe that Israel fights for survival. What you describe as "war crimes" was completely avoidable, but Hamaas doesn't care about avoiding suffering. They only care about fighting for their interests, and if that means getting innocent people killed, they don't really care. It's not true that Israel is killing people without justification because it just isn't like that. I know that there is hatred on both sides, but regarding Gaza: when the rockets and terrorism stops, the Israeli military action will stop. This is not complicated to understand. 
  • stopmediabias said on Jan 21, 2009....

    Jer- I deleted your links and if you want post trash like that do it on your own site.  Something important:  WE KNOW PEOPLE ARE BEING KILLED IN GAZA!!!!!!!!!

    The main question is who killed them?  The world community looks on Hamas as a terrorist organization not because they are in the pocket of Jews because of what Hamas has done over the years to earn that title.  These cowards have placed themselves in heavy populated areas and just started this whole mess.

    You are drone on constantly about the death toll which is just stupid because it is no where near enough.  This conflict has been going on for so long the Palestinians just haven't seen enough dead and that is why is continues on.  How many of all of us have been killed over the years because of this conflict?  We just haven't seen enough.  When are we going to become sick of it?  When a million are killed?  Two million?  Apparently the thousands and thousands of corpses we have created all ready isn't enough, right?

    Don't talk to us about death tolls we have plenty of our own as result of this conflict.

    And I'm sorry I am just not buying this anti-evil-zionist bullshit.  How many Palestinians are there in Israel that have lived there for years in peace?  If Israel was half as evil as you say how many people could they kill if they really wanted to? 

    "when you take some accedent of extrmist muslims like taliban or whatever and say look that is the "evil" islam . that means you try to con the world, because muslims are about 1.4 bilions and sure all of them aren't saints or moderates. and even you refuse some of their traditions that doesn't mean you have right to kill them to establish the "greatest israel"."

    Very good point, aren't we blaming the whole of Islam for the actions of a few?  Yes we are and here is why.

    #1-There is little to no outrage in the Muslim world over actions taken by other Muslims.

    #2-The vast majority of respectable Muslims could wipe out the despicable Muslims in a very short period of time and they don't.

    #3-American Muslims as represented by the Nation of Islam and Louis Farrahkhan are just as anti-semitic as the terrorists we are fighting and no outrage from normal Muslims.

    #4-Certain Muslim countries teach hatred in their schools.

    If a radical Christian group did anywhere near the things these radical Islamists are doing they would be exposed, shunned, and ran into the ground.    

  • bloc said on Jan 21, 2009....
    @smb
    #1 is simply false and I've posted examples in the past
    #2 this is a naive view that assumes teh world is black and white
    #3 i don't know much about the modern nation of islam
    #4 this is true, and one of hte worst is an ally of ours!
  • stopmediabias said on Jan 22, 2009....

    Bloc-'sigh' if don't have time why bother?

    Tell me when there is a suicide bomber that walks into a cafe or school and kills a bunch of children why isn't their worldwide condemnation?  Even radical countries should be against killing children.  Of course if Hamas holds a child up and lets an Israel airstrike murder him/her then, oh my God!  Those terrible zionist war criminals!

    There are over a billion Muslims in the world and probably thousands of radicals.  Don't tell me one could not destroy the other.

  • jerusalem said on Jan 22, 2009....

    t44s

    i think the extremists  in every side give each other motive and reasons to make wars, but when some side does mistakes we should refuse it and when it commited crime we sould judge it.

    you said :  " all the Arabs were like you there would be peace very soon  " ,i am sure the most of arabs want peace but when they see the images of the massacres like" the links which were deleted by smb" they normaly support the resistant specialy israel didn't give them any chance to live in peace.

    i find here many comic information : like "  American Muslims as represented by the Nation of Islam and Louis Farrahkhan are just as anti-semitic as the terrorists   "   the most of muslims scholars don't recognize this group and they don't consider them muslims , the arabs and many muslims  are semitic  so how can they be anti-semetic ?!!

    about the "  suicide bomber ", there is nothing in islam accept suicide ,it's  great crime ,but we have to understand why person accept to lose his life  to revange?

    the most of  suicide bombers faced terrible thing ,some of them saw his father  or brother when he were being killed ,some of them faced the israeli torture (there are 11000 palestinians in the israeli prisons) ,and israel has mad the most of west bank and gaza "big gail".

    i hope you could see the links of "trash" which were deleted by smb !.

     

  • stopmediabias said on Jan 22, 2009....

    Jer-I can see this is waste of time.  I don't know why you are afraid to answer direct questions.  Israel did not kill ONE SINGLE PERSON in Gaza.  Not one.  All those dead babies you see, those dead children, that was Hamas.  They purposely launched those rockets and put those children where they knew they would be killed.

    You say Farrakhan is not considered anything by Muslim scholars yet his words mirror a lot of Muslim scholars.

    Generally anti-semitism is pointed at Jews.

    And you just keep getting deeper and deeper in the bullshit.  Suicide bombers?  What did the Palestinians do when they saw the planes hitting the World trade center?

  • t44s said on Jan 22, 2009....
    Jerusalem:  Let’s try a little experiment. How about if you and I have our own Middle East Peace process right here?  I don’t want to decieve you in any way. I have heard the Jewish viewpoint all my life, as you have hear the Muslim view as well. I want to tell you that I agree with every word written by SMB as well.
          Still, I know there is no good future for all the interested parties unless people  who are not blinded by rage cane talk and think and try to come to some kind of agreement.  Let me start off by asking you the following: how do you believe the conflict between the Israelis and the Arabs began? And, how do you suggest this conflict can be resolved? 
  • stopmediabias said on Jan 23, 2009....

    The Arab/Jew conflict started when Abraham sent Ishmael away.  After that we are talking about the perfect storm of land and religious disputes.  

    The resolution will happen when two distinct civilized sides appear.  There must be an Arab side that doesn't aspire to destroying Israel.  This why we need a Palestinian Malcom X.  Peace is not an absense of conflict it is people agreeing to share the same planet with killing or threatening to kill each other.

  • jerusalem said on Jan 23, 2009....

    the same behaviour, false information ,justifying the warcrimes,simplification the massacre and blaming the victims. not only that but more ,  "Israel did not kill ONE SINGLE PERSON in Gaza.  "!!!!!

     

  • stopmediabias said on Jan 24, 2009....

    sorry that was:  Peace is not an absense of conflict it is people agreeing to share the same planet withOUT killing or threatening to kill each other.

    Jer-If a drug dealer steps out his front door and fires a bunch of rounds at 10 cops standing outside and the cops return fire killing the drug dealer's baby inside the house, the cops are not responsible the drug dealer is.  Hamas has done the same thing except they have snapped a bunch of pictures and paraded the body through the streets for affect.

    Once again you refuse to answer a direct question, but that's typical.

  • Spinoza said on Feb 23, 2009....
    Israel was created by Sweden and Norway, both countries which have enough space to put all the so called ''Jews'' into, rather than hand away something that isn't theirs.  The Swedish Mason, Emil Sandstrom, was delegated by the Rothschilds and their associates to money launder the assets of Palestinians and Egyptians, and take the loot back to England. With him he had the help of another Swede, Count Folke Bernadotte, who of course likewise was on the Rotschild deal to partition Palestine in favor of money getting in from the Suez Canal. Beside Bernadotte's apartment, just next room, the Stern Gang were located, which later became Mossad. They heard Bernadotte stating that what he had seen the Jews were doing to the Palestinians he had never heard or seen the Germans did to the Jews.  That was his death. The next thing was, that he got assassinated by the Stern Gang. By intrigues of Norway and Sweden, Palestine was partitioned and the Norwegians helped the Jews to declare itself a State. And Emil Sandstrom had run away with all the money and the Rotschilds and company were very happy indeed. Sweden is so scared of the whole thing that in Sweden, Sandstrom's name is hardly ever mentioned today.  The next thing of the Rotschilds was now to get rid of Olof Palme who had dared to voice opinions a bit out of their  Holy Zion tune. Rotschilds now purchased an apartment house just near Olof Palme at Gamla Stan in Stockholm and had Mossad tap Palme's telephone, including phoning threatening calls to him.  Being foolish Palme walked home at night on 28 February 1986, and just some moments after hour 24 he was shot dead like Bernadotte and others had been before him.  All aware Swedes know  these facts, and those of you who want to get into the mess can turn to:   www.ditliebfelderer.blogspot.com   where a whole section of names, places, dates, and events are recorded. The drama is much thicker than volcanic mud because a whole series of events of murder, Jack the Ripper type slaughter, suicides, and mock court cases were produced in Sweden that would challenge anything that happened under Stalin's time. Evidently George Orwell was right when he said that politic is nothing but a system of lies, and some more, and that more is of course to line ones own pocket and feather ones own nest.  And all politicians seem to have an admirable skill to this effect. 
  • t44s said on Feb 23, 2009....
    Spinoza: what have you been smoking?
  • t44s said on Feb 23, 2009....

  • jerusalem said on Feb 27, 2009....

    t44s,

    why you moc spinoza ?!

    the most of his talk is true, not only that but documented. israel was established by group of gangs like stern and hagana.

    see: www.palestineremembered.com

     

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