Just between me and the fencepost, I'm getting tired of hearing about the gay marriage thing and states wasting time and lots of money in attempts to outlaw it. We have all these people fighting civil unions too.
To the fencepost I carry on conversations that go something like this :
Me: Doesn't everyone who is a citizen of this country deserve the same rights as everyone else?
Fencepost : That's the way I always felt about it.
Me : Did you know marriage predates recorded history?
Fencepost : No, I didn't know that.
Me : It did. And until fairly recently in our history most marriages were arranged. They existed to cement bonds in clans, tribes, and even nations.
Fencepost : What about love and romance?
Me : My reading tells me that our present view of romance in Western society marriages possibly originated with the troubadours around the 1100's. At least it gives us an idea of a date. Religion says nothing about marrying for love.
Fencepost : Then marriage itself wasn't established by religion, but by men for convenience and power.
Me : Well, it wasn't set up by any religion that exists today. I'm sure you're probably right about that.
Fencepost : Was marriage always between a man and a woman?
Me : I don't know. Homosexuality has been around forever. And in many cases it wasn't looked down upon like it is today.
Fencepost : Does it matter to you if two men or two women get married?
Me : Nope. Why should it? Gay marriage has never affected my life in any way whatsoever. My life is between me and my God if I ever should claim one. Someone else's lifestyle is between them and their God.
Fencepost : Then you don't give a shit who gets married. Its none of your business.
Me : That's exactly right. Gay couples do well with each other, are fulfilled, and have a very good record raising children, those that have them.
Fencepost : Then what it comes down to is people wanting to force their beliefs onto others when they should be more concerned about what goes on in their own marriages and leave others the hell alone.
Me : Huh...did you know someone told me fence posts weren't very smart?
Fencepost : Probably the same ones that want to control other people and carry hatred and anger in their souls. Right?
Me : No doubt. You're a really good friend, you know that?
Fencepost : Yea, except for this hole I'm in.
beyondtheveil posted on Dec 18, 2008
| views: 225
Comments
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Lucytorial said on Dec 18, 2008....
tee heh ee well said Beyond...If we focus a little more on ourselves and less on what others might or might not be doing a lot of issues would fall away. -
uniquely-ironic said on Dec 18, 2008....
Very wise fence post, despite having fallen into a hole. I share many of it's opinions and would love to officiate at a gay marriage. -
woman said on Dec 18, 2008....
Nice POST! And a nice sensible attitude. I agree wholeheartedly! -
fragglesrock said on Dec 18, 2008....
i'm going to go straight outside tonight and see what my fence post has to say..
i loved this :) i agree with fence post and you!!!
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Lucytorial said on Dec 18, 2008....
The image of your doing that Frags... OMG.... do you have a gnome? -
beyondtheveil said on Dec 18, 2008....
lucy- So true. Many issues would fall away like leaves of a tree going into winter.
unique- Now there's a thought, you officiating at a gay marriage. Not likely to happen in California anytime soon. That new law kind of surprised me, California of all places.
woman- Thank you. I think its perfectly sensible.
fraggles- Did you know 'fraggles' reminds me of a little girl with curly hair? Anyway, on your first conversation with fencepost, take a drink with you.
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MissMimi said on Dec 18, 2008....
I knew I liked you for a reason, beyond. You and the fencepost make a hell of a lot of sense. -
beyondtheveil said on Dec 18, 2008....
mimi- I like you too, mimi. But heck, you knew that I did. Thank you for that. -
gingersoul said on Dec 18, 2008....
BeyBey......i would love to have a chat with you and Ms. Fencepost....we are right on the same wave.....so it would be a very pleasant conversation...
I needed somebody to talk with tonight... ..so this virtual chat with your fencepost made me really smile.....thanks....:-) -
mobil said on Dec 18, 2008....
I think your fence post needs to talk to someone else Beyond. Perhaps someone like me who would tell it that marriage is between a man and a woman.Why? Because unless you live in Massachusetts , it's against the law. And being a traditionalist I think it's bullshit that you and your fence post want to include everyone into the institution of marriage.Why not one man marrying three women then? The institution of marriage is in enough trouble without your fence post talking shit like this. How about two women marrying a goat? Why not?C'mon -
MissMimi said on Dec 18, 2008....
If I, as a heterosexual woman, wish to marry a heterosexual male goat, is it legal now? Can I legally marry two men (although God knows why I'd want to)? Of course not. The logic you use to jump from two human adults legally marrying to a human adult and an adult goat marrying escapes me, mobil. Gay marriage between two human adults will not lead to the legalization of interspecies marriage. Do you really believe that it would?Legalizing gay marriage does not threaten the sanctity of a marriage between a man and a woman. The 50+% divorce rate is far more of a threat to the sanctity of marriage than two men or two women marrying could ever be. -
beyondtheveil said on Dec 18, 2008....
ginsoul- Happy you enjoyed it. I wish we could have a chat tonight.
mobil- Its simply none of my business if any two adults marry or live together. The marrying of more than one woman is a male idea that has been accepted in multiple cultures. The problem with that is in every one I know of, it has included young girls, sometimes children. This is little more than legal rape and slavery and has nothing to do with two consenting adults who harm no one.
I wasn't placed here to decide the lifestyles of American citizens according to my beliefs and desires. I was placed here to guide my family and friends who ask for it. Beliefs and laws change with time. People change with time. Almost everything in life falls into gray areas including the ten Bill of Rights and the Ten Commandments.
Anyone who wishes not to thoughtfully consider the gray areas in all facets of life miss the wisdom included in that thought and miss the understanding of all sides to every situation and issue.
Every situation and issue falls prey to "who decides" and many times who decides should be the individual and not a separate group who disagrees. For those who are religious, God does not decide, God guides, and no one here should second guess what God would do in any situation. Dangerous ground for their own judgment.
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mobil said on Dec 18, 2008....
Society has an obligation to say when adults are adults Beyond, we must look out for the betterment of the whole. That's always been the way and it's a good way.Now after 240 years as a nation some say the old ways aren't any good anymore. Want to change things around, abortion is ok now. Millions of babies have died due to this change. What does this do to a society over the long haul Beyond? Killing babies and lessening the value of life?It seems to me we were once a strong people, now more and more we are weakened with children with special needs. There was some of this when I was young, now it's rampant, autism, ADD, every letter of the alphabet with these problems and the killing continues.Gay marriage, does it make us a better, stronger people? I don't see how, I only see a further weakling of traditional marrage. Should we reduce the age of a legal adult to ten years and allow Pedophiles to marry them? Why not Beyond? You weren't placed here to decide the lifestyles of American citizens according to your beliefs and desires. -
beyondtheveil said on Dec 18, 2008....
mobil- Legal ages are already established in this country by the states. And none of those problems you mentioned, abortion, autism, ADD, pedophilia, or the strength of traditional marriage are affected by gay marriage.
As mimi just mentioned, the divorce rate at 50+ per cent exists without gay marriage. The sanctity of marriage was in trouble long ago. I'm a traditionalist in many ways, we have discussed this before. If gay marriage had been legal when I got married, it would have had nothing to do with the sancity of mine, nor would I have given it a thought.
Does gay marriage make us a better, stronger people? It probably would all things considered. There would be more tolerance and understanding of the rights of all citizens for one thing. Gay couples would have the legal advantages married people enjoy. Why would I decide to exempt them from those rights or block them from possessing a piece of paper, which I have, to bind them as a couple?
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Hegemone said on Dec 18, 2008....
I agree with you on this one Beyond. It's really none of our business what anybody else does. I think today's society is too busy being in other people's business while ignoring their own, which makes for a whole boat load of other problems this world faces but ignores because in society's views that stuff isn't nearly as bad as two same sex people loving one another ... cuz OMG somebody found love and happiness and it just happened to be with their same gender, because that's so horrid right? I also don't see how gay marriage can be compared to other issues the world has effectively. Each should be handled in their own way, but I don't see how gay marriage hurts anything either. As mentioned before me, " the divorce rate at 50+ per cent exists without gay marriage." Comparing Gay Marriage to any of the other big issues is about as effective as comparing Cancer to AIDS and seeing which is worse. Cancer and AIDS are both controversial, devastating, life threatening, etc. and MUCH research is to be done ... but no matter how you look at it, they're both just as important and neither diminishes the other. Completely seperate things, neither more important than the other.
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beyondtheveil said on Dec 18, 2008....
hege- I've found from reading that in reality there is most likely about 6 per cent of the population who are gay. That's 18 million people in this country. A lot of good people to sweep under the rug, don't you think? -
Hegemone said on Dec 18, 2008....
Yup, it's sad, they make up such a small part of our community but they get an awful lot of negative attention and it just isn't fair to them. I'd rather worry about crime rates, financial downfalls, diseases, etc. than the girl next door falling in love with the girl next door to her. UNLESS they're out to try to spread the AIDS virus while conniving to steal all the nations money and break into every bank, murdering thousands, while doing it. LOL, very unlikely to happen. -
beyondtheveil said on Dec 19, 2008....
hege- I hear you. Makes me wonder how many gay guys ever robbed a bank or murdered someone. -
mobil said on Dec 19, 2008....
Yeah, but we're not talking about robbing banks or murdering anyone. Look, lowering the age of adulthood is no different than making gay marriage legal. It's just a matter of legalizing isn't it?Yes 50% divorce rate, it's just awful, why make it worse? It's not like gay men are known for their commitment to each other and promiscuity is rampant among their ranks.Marriage is between a man and a woman, at least here in Montana it is and in 48 other states that I know of. Gays have been pushed down our throats in the media and Hollywood for many years now. If you and these ladies buy into gay marriage there isn't much I can say to turn your heads.It doesn't mater anyway, the lackluster generations coming behind us haven't had much in the way of morality sent their way via absentee parents, television and movies. You will get your way Beyond, just give it a little more time. These backwards wearing baseball cappers are going to put their stamp on gay marriage and a whole lot of other things repugnant to me and perhaps to you. -
beyondtheveil said on Dec 19, 2008....
mobil- The last generation is something to talk about and I've done it often. I have much experience with them because of my two boys and their friends and acquaintances. I've read article after article about that generation.
One professional in the area of sociology told me that for the first time in history the govt. did a special study just to see 'what happened' to a generation.
It affects males much more than females. More violence, laziness, demanding, it goes on and on. Girls had overtaken boys in universities long ago, and recently it was published that girls score higher in math and science now for the first time.
When they grow up and take over it should be interesting to see what happens. Perhaps we will have a president who wears his pants halfway down his ass and a cap on backwards looking like an idiot. He won't get much done though, he'll be too lazy expecting everyone else to do the work. That will be the time we really need female presidents.
Can you tell I have little respect for the guys coming up to the plate?
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mobil said on Dec 19, 2008....
Yup, and I don't either Beyond, I wonder to think what will be legal when these boys take the reins.
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