• SeanRenaud said on Nov 26, 2008....

  I would like to start this by saying I am not a support of Kerry, nor his alarmist pseudo science and at the least believe more research is needed.  I believe that signing the kyoto protocol would be suicidal to the United States economy particularly at a time when our main competitors (the Chinese) have no such restrictions on their own emissions, but also lack our dedication to our workers and various other expenses.  (None of this means I think we shouldn't have regulations in place, nor that I don't think we should responsibily and gradually increase those regulations to minimize any impact we may be having on the enviroment.)  That said:

  First I know detractors like to either not do enough research on something or feign ignorance but climate change and global warming are different terms for the same thing.  Its because the climate is infinitely complex.  Raising the average temprature by just a few degrees can cause glaciers and snow caps to melt causing local flooding and lower tempratures.  It may turn the US back into a dustbowl and flood Austraila all together.  It doesn't mean that the root cause isn't a higher global temprature.  It's important to note that historically both life and humankind in particular have flourished during higher tempratures.  There is obviously a breaking point where that stops being true but all other things being equal (ie acess to food and water) it's better to be a little too hot than too cold.  Most plants perform warmer climates generaly increasing the amount of available food in those circumstances.  No matter how many times it is screamed that gays caused the fall of roam, a sudden drop in temprature that made it difficult to grow enough food to continue to expand the empire, specifically north of France *You can literally chart the expance of Roman growth by where grapes will grow* had as much to do with it is Caligula.

• stopmediabias said on Nov 27, 2008....

  Very well said Sean, I think what troubles me the most about this is not so much Kerry's position, it is the timing.  People, all people are worried about this economy, Kerry is suppose to be one of our leaders reassuring us, and now he brings up this climate change/global warming crap.  This is especially troubling since the auto industries are on the verge of collapse and all this global warming histeria contributed to it.

• SeanRenaud said on Nov 27, 2008....

  The car industry in America to be fair failed becase NOTHING it did worked.  I would venture to say that the original source, the first cause if you will was the Unions which left us unable to compete price wise with the Japanesse in the 50's.  People don't understand that money is finite.  Not only did the money that went to paying the workers  raise the price per car, it also lowered profit margins, which obviously cut in Research and Development.  Sure corporate fat cats had a part in this but I imagine that ultimately it's much like earmarks on bills.  That if you were to cut all the CEO's out of the equation entirely that the end equation would be the same.

  Eventually we fell catostophically behind in gas mileage, in quality of car period (again the money that was going to workers WAS NOT being put into using top of the line parts which is in no small part the reason why Ford and Chevy over the last few decades have become synomous with getting your car repaired.  A LOT.

  To be honest the auto industry had it been forced to comply with international emissions standards might be in a better position today.  I don't know if you're aware but US cars are only sold in the US because our cars don't make the minimum emissions and fuel efficiency standards around the world.  Which you know cuts us off from severall BILLION potential customers.

  A lot of what is wrong with the Big 3 is there own fault and giving them 25 Billion (particularly without a solid plan, but even with a solid plan) woud basically be tossing cash into a hole.  We all have that friend or family member that has never been able to balance their budget and we usually help because while a lot of the problem is there fault, a lot of it isn't at this point.

  The Auto companies cannot survive paying their workers nearly twice as much as the competition.  They cannot survive with inferior products (Trucks are the exception here)  Giving them 25 Billion just means instead of going out of bussiness in the first quarter  they will survive to Q2. 

• ALIENated said on Nov 28, 2008....

  
  Kerry IS from Mars, like most liberals. If liberals would remove their heads
  from their you-know-whats maybe they could see what is going on around
  them. I am thinking a Democrat presidency might be a good thing. All the
  wackjobs like Kerry and Gwhore can praddle on until people start to 
  understand ... what wackjobs they really are. Just wait until some of this
  crap starts hitting people in the pocketbook and then see how everyone
  turns on these stupid idiots. Kerry and Gwhore should have their lips sewn
  together. I know they cannot stop talking any other way. I sometimes
  wonder if they hear themselves. If they hear what they are saying. The
  climate changes all the time, and we should stop spewing sewage into the
  atmosphere any way we can. End of story. Now shut the f*** up. When
  people like the Kennedys start allowing wind farms within visual distance
  of their castles, I will start worrying about it. What two-faced, elitist
  morons. They want everyone else to jump through hoops while they keep
  living however they want, at the country club.
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Nov 28, 2008....

  You make it sound as if the industrialists drink from the streams they dump raw sewage in.

• stopmediabias said on Nov 29, 2008....

  Sean-I'm afraid you are slightly misguided.  Particularly with this statement:

  "Eventually we fell catostophically behind in gas mileage, in quality of car period (again the money that was going to workers WAS NOT being put into using top of the line parts which is in no small part the reason why Ford and Chevy over the last few decades have become synomous with getting your car repaired.  A LOT."

  I don't believe we have fell behind in gas mileage, U.S. regulations on car companies is different than in Japan.  As far as quality of car you cannot say that until you've driven all the products.  Certain matchups in cars would be mixed.  I've met people in the car business that have made the statement..."I had a_______ for years and will never ever drive one again."  You can put Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Ford, Chevy, etc...in the blank, everyone has a different experience.

  I agree we can thank the UAW for making it impossible for our companies to compete with there companies.

  Look at the "green" movement over here, they drool over the Toyota, Prius when actual uninflated tests have shown it gets no metter mileage than the Camry.  The battery comes from a sesspool of polution in a factory in Canada and it does more harm to the environment in the long run.  If Ford or Chevy loose something in fuel efficiency they gain it back in safety. 

• SeanRenaud said on Nov 29, 2008....

  Are you arguing facts or perception of facts SMB?  It is an important distinction when you are talking about anything that deals with the public at large. 

  I would argue that we up until very very reently have been far behind in gas milleage and in over all value of car as well.  Sure there is anecdotal evidence for anything.  Do you think that your average person has a higher opinion of American cars than foriegn cars?  (I've already noted that Trucks are separate)

  We do agree the UAW is the source of the problem but I think it's the cause of the things that I listed.  As much as the UAW is asking if the companies were making money they'd be able to pay them.  They aren't making money and American cars aren't priced THAT much higher anymore.

• stopmediabias said on Nov 30, 2008....

  Opinions as far as foreign versus domestic are mixed.  I find the perception of gas mileage is a load of bull when versus reality.  People think we have been way behind in gas mileage because it is measured as an overall average.

  I think they are not making money because it cost them more to make the product then their competitors.

  This is why I say let these companies fail.  They will reorganize, clean house and come back better suited to compete.

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