• D6fer said on Nov 04, 2008....

  I don't think it is a matter of whether or not she is qualified or not, I think the main problem was that she simply was not ready for the big stage.....she got nervous and lets be honest....she didn't sound any dumber than the Vice President elect Joe Biden....and he's been at this for years! The media did what they set out to do......Barrack Obama is no more qualified......but it is what it is.....I hope it all works out.

• andora said on Nov 04, 2008....

  i hope it works out too D6
  
  but, really biden knows a few things...
  
  palin is a fatalistic 'end of the world' christian at a time in the world when the real rulers have milked the religious tension to the point of catastrophe
  
  bringing in evangelicals is definitely pouring the gasoline on a frightening fire
  
  our new PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA will find the common ground
  
  he will demonstrate what i say by putting together a diverse and bi-partisan administration...who knows we may be agreeing politically - then what will the comediens feed off of?
  
  strange new world
  

• andora said on Nov 04, 2008....

  as a lefty sean, to be specific, that woman represents a phenomenon that i will hold a parting parade for.
  
  mccain did not scare me like the GOP did, and even the GOP didn't scare me as much as palin did
  

• D6fer said on Nov 04, 2008....

  I think you read too much into the whole christian thing....supposedly Barrack is one too.....we will see.

• bloc said on Nov 04, 2008....

  it depends what we mean by qualified. If I were a coach in the NBA and I had a choice between lebron james his rookie year or some role player with 5 years of experience who would I want to choose. Obama is lebron and Palin is a rookie role player, not even an experienced one.
  
  
  There is far more to being effective on a job than the number of years of experience. 

• gingersoul said on Nov 04, 2008....

  Geez......i wouldnt have had the gut to see Palin smirking face keep popping out each single day from any single newspaper or website like it happened during these past months.....enough is enough...
  
  She was a less than adequate politic catapulted in the circus of the biggest and most ferocious electoral campaign in the world.......picked only because she is a woman (since Obama didn't pick Clinton) and only to slap the democrats in the face playing the card of the "progressive" and down to earth card.... trying to allure PTA moms and hair stylists...
  
  I am only sorry for Tina Fey now.....LOL.......
  

• Lucytorial said on Nov 05, 2008....

  I thought she was an extremely bad choice to be honest.  She doesn't cut the mustard in my eyes.... never did.

• Obama said on Nov 05, 2008....

  John and Sarah gave it their best effort. Their best wasn't good enough. Palin was a very poor choice. She had allot to do with McCains and the Republicans loss. What ever the chatter might be we have allot of work to do together. There are allot of neocons on soulcast. If they want to have their voices heard they need to join in a civil conversation. We won't ignore what they have to say, but America has spoken. Join with me now. I will repair the damage done during the Bush years. Thank you for your votes!

• andora said on Nov 05, 2008....

  no D6, it wasn't about whether she was a christian or not, it was the fact that she is a radical christian who is willing to lie to get ahead...we just finished one episode with a lying christian, i didn't have the fortitude to put up with her after bush!
  
  for as much as i slander christianity, i also believe that christianity got us to where we are today, which is far better than where we were before christianity swept Rome in the 4th century. I do not wish to deny our past, and at the same time i don't believe we will beable to move forward under the leadership of liars!
  
  i have been elated to watch the world celebrate our democracy
  
  Obama gave hope to the world by sweeping these elections, because the world see's this vote as the first step toward taking our country back from absolute soulless capitalism. Obama will temper capitalism with compassion for the least amongst us. WHAT CHRISTIAN COULD DISAGREE WITH THIS AGENDA?
  

• andora said on Nov 05, 2008....

  Today, the day after Sarah goes back to the fringes
  
  she will never be able to step out of the fringe of social conservatism after this!
  
  nationally palin could only hope to get the base of the Christian Right - she has no pull with Independents after they saw that she dabbled in nepotism and ethics corruption. she lost her bid for the White House...she'll never get that close again!
  

• SARAH_PALIN said on Nov 05, 2008....

  People said mean things to me. Yes I was going to club baby seals but I was tricked by a prank. I'm not Dan Quale in a bra. Will I support Obama? I guess I'll try.

• FutureGoddess said on Nov 05, 2008....

  Of course she was qualified - she could see Russia from her house

• beyondtheveil said on Nov 05, 2008....

  I really don't think she was remotely ready to step into the president's shoes if anything happened to McCain. I doubt she ever will be ready.
  
  And that damned *wink* was getting to me.
  

• mobil said on Nov 05, 2008....

  Not only was she qualified, not only was she more qualified than Obama, McCain and Biden !
   
  You're going to see allot more of Sarah Palin in the future. After obama and this left wing congress weakens or nearly destroys us, can you say; President Palin?

• andora said on Nov 05, 2008....

  mobil, your words feel more like a voodoo curse than an opinion
  
  that's some poison my friend - got tums?
  

• beyondtheveil said on Nov 05, 2008....

  mobil- I was quite surprised with over a quarter million votes cast, McCain only won by 16,000. I thought Montana was more conservative than that. Some other conservative states had a difference of 60-70 per cent. 

• D6fer said on Nov 05, 2008....

  boy....sure is a lot of animosity here for a Palin.....not much for being gracious winners are we now?
  
  Sarah Palin will not be going away.....not long term anyway.....my guess is she will get a lot more press over the next few years....and it will be much more positive than what we were exposed to over the past few months.
  
  I wouldn't close the coffin just yet on conservatism......McCain did get few votes tuesday.....more than Bush did I believe, right?
  

• mobil said on Nov 05, 2008....

  andora..........bite my ass
   
   
  Beyond, we've had a shitload of Californians move in here, you know how they are. They've run their state into the ground so now an exodus to the last best place. What you saw on election nite were those Californacators voting here.

• husbandhater said on Nov 05, 2008....

  NO SHE WASN'T QUALIFIED! I thought she was an INSULTING JOKE onthe part of the G.O.P. Even they were skeptical but they went along with the okie doke b/c they wanted to beleive in their horse. He was not the guy I wanted to vote for in 2000. He sold his soul and he sold out period. It's sad really. He cared more about what could get him a win rather than what would be good for the country which made the search a lopsided one.

  The more I saw certain things the more turned off I and many woman voters got turned off. The whole thing with the $150,000,the kid with the Louis Vuitton bag,just too much!

• bloc said on Nov 06, 2008....

  damning.
  
  

• hunta_boyce_chandler said on Nov 06, 2008....

  Palin was a has been

• andora said on Nov 06, 2008....

  gracious winners? you ask for the moon the sky and the ocean?
  
  fuck that noise D6 because the election was stolen in 2000 and 2004...this will come out in the open soon and you will get to see that you and all those who voted for cheney were used by criminal factions that don't give a shit about you or this country.
  
  i'm not sure what kind of evidence you need to understand that while you and your idealogues were thinking you knew somthing, the constitution got shredded, the judicial department got sodomized, our infrastructure crumbled as ENRON AND EXXON raped pensioners, we launched pre-emptive war against a sovereign nation, I could go on and on...but what's the point! you and people like you are still in denial about what is really going on around you. As the homelessness swells to a breaking point and the down and out come to your doorstep i hope you realize the contribution that the republican party gave to your way of life!
  
  you may be alright today D6, and it is a good thing for you than Obama was elected, because he may make some moves that protect you and your family from the crisis bush and cheney left us with.
  
  you remind me of christians that preach christianity to unbelievers when in fact those preaching never even read the bible...people like alien and u. You don't know shit about banking, you don't know shit about our economy and you oppose solutions that would help you and your family.
  
  mobil, that goes for you too
  
  rant against socialism and when your own leaders give socialism to the owning class while letting the working class get thrown into the streets, you blame the working class for being losers, because you are sycophants to the powerful elite!
  

• andora said on Nov 06, 2008....

  same with Sarah Palin
  
  they want to accede from the US
  
  but when they saw a ticket to the top, they went to Neiman Marcus to fit in with the very people they hate...schmooze the very people they wanted to get a divorce from
  
  kinda like the man that fantasizes about killing his wife, but when she gets an inheritance, he is all of a sudden the happily married man. whores and more whores
  
  my son-in-law is the only one out of 6 of us that voted for McCain, he's a teacher and had to move back home with his parents because he wasn't making enough money to pay his bills while he was working full-time. Obama promised to give teachers more pay and to tax them less. but he voted for mccain anyway because he comes from a long line of republicans that vote for candidates based only upon party. which is why abramoff was so very successful at what he did. blind loyalty is not intelligent
  

• SeanRenaud said on Nov 06, 2008....

  No evidence will EVER come out about the 2000 and 2004 (especially 2004) election being stolen because NO SUCH THING HAPPENED.  Holy shit.  It's like you believe anything your told.

  We technically didn't launch a war, we stopped honoring a ceasefire that hadn't been honored by the other guy for a long time.  Clinton fucked up by not dealing with that issue in 97.

   

• bloc said on Nov 06, 2008....

  one can make a convincing argument that it was stolen in 2000. There were a lot of voter role purging and such going on in florida. The problem is that one can't make a case beyond a reasonable doubt. It's very hard to prove intent. 

• SeanRenaud said on Nov 06, 2008....

  I'll grant that the 2000 election was screwy.  I remember that whole debacle (I was four months too young to vote) you can make a convincing argument true but to call it stolen is a bit of a stretch and we simply lost in 2004.

  I'm just tired of hearing that line of BS.  Particularly from the same bunch that were utterly convinced that Bush was going to start World War 3 so he could activate some kind of super president power and remain in office until he was emperor of the world.

• bloc said on Nov 06, 2008....

  LOL, yeah, the conspiracy theorists make it hard for a serious look at the issue. 

• SeanRenaud said on Nov 06, 2008....

  And they are the only people who consistently bring it up.

• D6fer said on Nov 06, 2008....

  andora.....wow!.....you are one bitter old bitch aint ya? Your true colors are beginning to show just like your pathetic, demented friend sheltercrow.......you got your way, but that is not good enough for you!.....admit it...you won't be happy untill the U.S. Army is goose stepping in front of President Chavez!
  
  I have tried to be nice to you.....now you can go fuck yourself.
  

• bloc said on Nov 06, 2008....

  "And they are the only people who consistently bring it up."
  
  
  These days they are because it was 8 years ago. What's the point in harping on it now? Shortly after it happened there was a lot of good reporting on it.

• SeanRenaud said on Nov 07, 2008....

  The one 8 years ago yeah.  But the one four years ago was pretty cut and dry.

• andora said on Nov 07, 2008....

  D6 I would never want you to ACT NICE on my account
  
  I would never give you that if i didn't also feel that as my truth...
  
  as you accuse me of being a poor loser and ask me to fuck off, you obviously made a poor attempt at being something you are not...what a surprise!
  
  Kathy Harris is the weak link of our former democracy, for those of you who are in denial of what happened in 2000. Gore won Florida
  
  as far as 2004...we will wait and see sean...
  
  had no idea you were a baby sean! no wonder you have little perspective about what has happened since you came of age

• andora said on Nov 07, 2008....

  as far as accusing me of believing ANYTHING i am told sean
  
  this applies to you in ways you will become aware of very soon...more will be revealed to those who bought the republican spin...
  
  and for those who predict that the democrats will ruin the country, i remember that the last time the democrats handed over this country to the GOP, we had a surplus and we were at peace, to name just a few things that were in order. Now you have the balls to insinuate that the democrats are going to ruin our country?
  
  AS YOU OWE MORE ON YOUR HOUSE THAN IT IS WORTH, REMEMBER HOW GOOD YOU HAD IT, BEFORE THE NEO-CONS STOLE OUR DEMOCRACY AND MADE THE US LOOK LIKE A SOULLESS WAISTLAND!
  
  go ahead talk like you know anything at all about what makes this country stable? Discount the voices that have been trying to help you understand what is going on under the table in the name of democracy and freedom. Just because you poo-poo these theories as unfounded, you look foolish. The evidence is now in the open. Our military was used to keep donors of the GOP in business in countries that don't want them there. In essence, we used our military to get at the oil that Hussein could not get at - yesss, he tried to gas the Kurds to get that, but daddy Bush interceded because that Kurdish oil was gonna be his after all. No, i am not a fan of Hussein, but I at least understand how the neo-cons operate...you guys just want power, you don't seem to care about how we get it.
  
  McCain is more your style sean, why did you leave your bretheren for someone who has a conscience?
  

• andora said on Nov 07, 2008....

  In late August of this year, Diebold admitted, while being sued because of it by the state of Ohio, that their GEMS central tabulator system routinely drops thousands of votes, without giving notice, while they are being uploaded from memory cards to the main server. That failed GEMS tabulator model was used yesterday, with both Diebold's touch-screen and op-scan systems, in some 34 states across the country.

• andora said on Nov 07, 2008....

  like i said D6, sean and mobil,
  
  you were robbed and you don't have the stomach to admit that you were duped!
  
  D6 and mobil, the fact that you predict that the democrats will certainly ruin our country...well the above info indicates DIEBOLD in the electoral theft...and DIEBOLD is owned and operated by the GOP. In supporting this type of behavior you are both now showing yourselves as
  
  UNPATRIOTIC
  
  the fact that you would place these criminals above sincere people who actually care about this country enough to expose corruption, means that you must be defending this corruption on some level to cover up how foolish you really are!
  
  THANKYOU SHELTERCROW for supplying the info about this, mahalo, mahalo
  

• andora said on Nov 07, 2008....

  those of us who do not believe the spin that was used to shut us up about electoral corruption showed up in FORCE, bc we do not believe everything we are told. As a result, we got our country back.
  
  sucks to be nice to those that you are hating D6, but having said that, the fact that you support electoral corruption proves to me that you are not a Real American after all...it's people like you that brought Hitler into power. Power at any cost is what you actually stand for...have a nice day!
  
  oh, i am oh so very nice
  
  don't you have a job to go to?
  

• mobil said on Nov 07, 2008....

  Talk about taking Sarah Palin seriously !
   
  andora you are the biggest windy bag of wet shit to come down the pike. I can't take you seriously, can anyone?
   
  I ask, does, can anyone take this shitbag andora seriously?

• andora said on Nov 07, 2008....

  once again mobil, you show everyone that you know nothing about the issues, the only thing you are capable of is name-calling...of course you have nothing meaningful to say.
  
  It is common knowledge that there are oh so many fuckheads that want to assassinate my voice bc they say i lack appropriate manners! this isn't about whether or not i am nice, it is because i say things that disturb denial...not to say i have no denial of my own, but at least i am interested in new information...
  
  you mobil, are only capable of slandering the messenger because you only know talking points. your opinion is not coming from knowledge or even wisdom...so all you can do is try to get a group to support your stupidity...thus the question above...you have nothing of worth to say after all!

• SeanRenaud said on Nov 07, 2008....

  1.  Whoopity do, Diebold was sued.  It's a jillion computers some problems are and were expected.  Kinda funny though don't you think, all the evidence still exists, which wouldn't if there were paper ballots.  Eight years later we are still able to show what went wrong, unless you can prove that the the Diebolds fucked up more than the margin of error you've got no case.  It's not like those hanging chad paper ballots. . .oh wait those had no problems at all.  None.  Perfect.  Also all people who hand count ballots are 100% trustworthy and would never lie or miscount or twist the system.  Ever.

  2.  Andora, the fact that you think McCain is more my type than Obama is exactly why I agree with mobil (almost) you're not the biggest windy bag of wet shit to come down the pike.  That honor goes to your mentor Sheltercrow who wouldn't know a point if it stabbed her in the heart.

  3. We were at peace at the end of Clinton's reign merely because we got lucky.  Had 9/11 been twelve months earlier we would have been at war.  And encase you've forgoten we are still in Afghanistan.

  4.  If there was a smoking gun in 04 or even 2000 we would have it by now.  You're hatred of Bush is only slightly less irrational than ALIEN's hatred of Obama.  Neither are rooted in this thing called reality.  I think it's because you both believe in ghosts. 

  It's actually laughable specially on the right subjects.  One of you believes in a ghost that says abortion is bad and makes America into a nation of murderers the other believes if you politely talk to a woman's belly and explain there is no money the baby will go back to Hindu life stream and come out as a butterfly until there is money.  Insanity is insanity no matter what side it comes from.

  5.  Mobil.  I think you give Andora more credit for being a human being than I do and I think the two of us respect her more than all other board members combined.

• andora said on Nov 07, 2008....

  sean said:
  
  "3. We were at peace at the end of Clinton's reign merely because we got lucky.  Had 9/11 been twelve months earlier we would have been at war.  And encase you've forgoten we are still in Afghanistan."
  
  andora blows shit:
  
  I. getting lucky has nothing to do with it
  
  2. 9/11 was a repeat of the Bay of Tonkin and Pearl Harbor: military standing down
  
  3. Afghanistan was not necessary, never was a pivotal part on the war on terror, it is instead an extension of the cold war machinations
  
  4. Obama needs to create a special arm of the CIA that is invisible, covert...armed to the teeth ninja style...connected to the most sensitive level of the Intelligence arm...entirely mobile...they are in effect US Bounty hunters...
  
  BUSH IS A DUMMY AND A HALF for using a conventional military to fight international criminals!
  
  that is if he wanted to fight a war on terror. but, he never did...that was his cover...so he's not as dumb as the americans that supported him after all!
  
  can u spell CASPIEN SEA PIPELINE?
  
  i can't, but i bet u could if u tried mobil
   your an alt
  
  
  

• andora said on Nov 07, 2008....

  sean u said:
  "You're hatred of Bush is only slightly less irrational than ALIEN's hatred of Obama.  Neither are rooted in this thing called reality.  I think it's because you both believe in ghosts."
  
  1. i hate bush's policies and believe him to be a liar that is guilty of treason. I HATE INJUSTICE WITH A PASSION!
  2. i have no idea about Alien's reality, and ghosts are not something i believe in they are something that i help
  

• andora said on Nov 07, 2008....

  spiritual abortion is real for many people i know, we are compassionate in our approach to something as sacred as procreation..i must agree with you on this point tho sean, because i go so far left that i actually agree with Ron Paul
  
  as far as being so very pagan that i do not also have much in common with extreme christians i see this as a healthy thing, you see it as a slanderous issues...i have much in common with anti abortion people, i try to get through to them, but they don't have that ability to wrap around as well as i do at this point
  

• SeanRenaud said on Nov 07, 2008....

  4. Obama needs to create a special arm of the CIA that is invisible, covert...armed to the teeth ninja style...connected to the most sensitive level of the Intelligence arm...entirely mobile...they are in effect US Bounty hunters...

  You're against the US Patriot Act?  LoL.

• sheltercrow said on Nov 07, 2008....

  SR: You always amaze me with your demented focus. You define the 'left' from the perspective of the 'right' propaganda machine. The left's most nagging concerns were 'illegal voter suppression' and 'computer tampering at the polling places' not the Bradley effect or exit polls.

• sheltercrow said on Nov 07, 2008....

  Dfer: You are always good for a laugh. From Skeptico...
  
  
  Palin quote:
  
  
  This is a matter of how we prioritize the money that we spend. […] And where does a lot of that earmark money end up? It goes to projects having little or nothing to do with the public good -- things like fruit fly research in Paris, France. I kid you not.
  
  
  Research into fruit flies. In France. France I tell you! The horror. (The “I kid you not” was not part of the official transcript, but she said it. I kid you not.)
  
  Palin's proud ignorance shines through loud and clear. The actual research she was mocking was into the olive fruit fly – a major pest that threatens California’s olive farmers. (I guess she doesn't care about Joe the farmer.  How elitist.) But fruit fly research is much more than this. The fruit fly is a standard organism that is used to study numerous genetic traits, precisely because it shares so many genetic similarities with humans. Including possibly genetic causes of some of the very “special needs” traits of children Palin was supposed to be supporting in her speech.
  

• sheltercrow said on Nov 07, 2008....

  Mobil: aren't you the blogger that thinks political liberalism is about economic neo-liberalism. Talk about stupid.

• sheltercrow said on Nov 07, 2008....

  SR: are you still pissed because you have been excoriated and corrected so many times by sheltercrow? Very childish. I can still remember that 'I'm calling sheltercrow out' post. lol. 'Sliced bread aint [sic] got shit on me.' lol
  
  By the way.
  
  
  Ain’t is a contraction originally used for “am not”, but also used for “is not”, “are not”, “has not”, or “have not” in the common vernacular. In some dialects it is also used as a contraction of “do not”, “does not”, and “did not”, as in I ain’t know that. The word is a perennial issue in English usage. It is a word that is widely used by many people, but is not standard English.
  
  lol
  

• sheltercrow said on Nov 07, 2008....

  SR: Where do you get this rubbish?
  
  "we stopped honoring a ceasefire that hadn't been honored by the other guy for a long time"
  
  Iraq's alleged possession of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) based on faked intelligence reports doesn't ring a bell?
  
  Of course, after the invasion, the 'U.S.-led Iraq Survey Group concluded that Iraq had ended its WMD programs in 1991 and had no active programs at the time of the invasion...'
  

• sheltercrow said on Nov 07, 2008....

  SR: you must be wearing very thick blinders.
  
  A '2000 election problems' search gets 56,400,000 hits.
  
  A '2004 election problems' search gets 66,500,000 hits.
  
  'US election problems' gets 228,000,000 hits!
  
  'voter suppression problems' gets 2,890,000 hits.
  
  'voting machine problems' gets 31,400,000 hits.
  

• mobil said on Nov 07, 2008....

  Sean, I agree, but if I were you I wouldn't waste my time debating a fool. Excuse me, fools because crowbait and andoariea would together cause fools to leave any room in embarrassment.

• SeanRenaud said on Nov 07, 2008....

  I live in California.  Here it's an undeniable fact that any illegal voter suppression is offset by multiple voters.  I've seen people multiple vote and once for shits and giggles my brother and I switched.  But all you need to do is scream RACIST and you can vote at as many polls as you can drive to.  And I've never SEEN evidence of illegal voter suppression.  I don't deny that it happens, I'm sure it does.  Just like I'm sure that thousands upon thousands of absentee votes come from fake people.  I figure it all balances.

  As far as computer tampering goes I'm sure there were people who faked counts before when we used paper, and made honest mistakes because two peices of paper were stuck together.  The thing is that with a computer it is very easy to prove if there was tampering and you have a much easier time of proving intent as well, and it's quicker to double, triple, quadruple check your results.  Not to mention computer ballots can be tracked, in real time by as many computers as care to watch it.  And again whomever changes the votes will be trackable.  There is a reason why they tell you to utterly destroy your computer because everything you do on a computer is cached away someplace you only need to know how to to find it.

  In the case of a lost computer we could be actively downloading to as many computers as we want to preven that from even being a possibility, as opposed to paper ballots that can (at least in theory) be destroyed accidently.

  The only real argument for paper is that it that you never have a malfunctioning peice of paper.  Of course you can run out.

• sheltercrow said on Nov 07, 2008....

  SR: You have never seen voter suppression or computer tampering because you have never looked for it. A true party man, like yourself, would need not worry about such things, evidence or not.
  
  Ah mobil: The current know-nothing, see-nothing, hear-nothing. When facts fail you, which they inevitably do, an insult will always do, do, do, for you, you, you. lol.
  

• sheltercrow said on Nov 07, 2008....

  And mobil: Since you never seem to have any facts at hand to support your unabashedly absurd assertions, what is a fool to do? lol.
  
  

• bloc said on Nov 07, 2008....

  "The thing is that with a computer it is very easy to prove if there was tampering and you have a much easier time of proving intent as well, and it's quicker to double, triple, quadruple check your results.  Not to mention computer ballots can be tracked, in real time by as many computers as care to watch it.  And again whomever changes the votes will be trackable.  There is a reason why they tell you to utterly destroy your computer because everything you do on a computer is cached away someplace you only need to know how to to find it."
  
  From a computer programmer, this simply is not true.
  

• sheltercrow said on Nov 07, 2008....

  SR: About what say you have 'seen' people do, and, of course, what you say you have done personally. Hum. Oh, and the 'undeniable fact' stuff. I can personally admit to catching you in a lie before. With respect. Why should you be believed here?

• sheltercrow said on Nov 07, 2008....

  SR: I'm sure you missed it... at The Brad Blog
  
  
  A bunch of world-class computer scientists testified publicly this week that "U.S. Presidential Election Can Be Hacked".
  
  As stunning as that sounds, there's nothing new here necessarily to readers of The BRAD BLOG, other than the fact that outlets like the IDG News Service and PCWorld are reporting it --- out loud --- and that the computer scientist community, specifically those who have been studying these systems, are now out and out saying it --- in public...and out loud.
  
  "The three systems we looked at are three of the most widely used around the nation," warned professor David Wagner of the University of California, "They're going to be using them in the 2008 elections; they're still going to have the same vulnerabilities we found."
  

• sheltercrow said on Nov 07, 2008....

  A minor search of the Brad Blog for 'computer tabulation'
  
  
  Results 1 - 10 of about 1,180 from bradblog.com for computer tabulation.
  
  Malicious Viruses Discovered on FL Vote Tabulation ...
  Jun 5, 2008 ... SillyDC, work in tandem and go from computer to computer .... Tabulating is still going on around the country and there are a lot of reports ...
  
  Election Integrity Concerns in the Iowa Democratic ...
  Dec 31, 2007 ... The Iowa Democratic Party has a bit of a black hole as well, with an automated cell phone-initiated computer tabulation. ...
  
  Computer Scientists: '2008 U.S. Presidential ...
  What the computer scientists have missed is this: voting tabulations are altered remotely, using a hidden transceiver within each critically located machine ...
  
  Diebold Tabulation Software Goes on Trial in Pima ...
  ... like you are making the reader work hard just to save a few computer bits… .... 10/30/08: Tool Developed to Detect Possible Fraud in Election Tabulating ...
  
  Sequoia Voting Systems Threatens ...
  Local election officials are not computer scientists nor do they even .... or the central elections office for ballot tabulation continues to increase. ...
  
  Commissioner Hillman Recommends More Diebold ...
  Original reports indicated that a “sharing violation” had occurred in the GEMS central tabulation program when the computer tried to read two cards at the ...
  
  Pima County, AZ, Transportation Election Was ...
  Democratic Party observers were prevented from investigating cables connected to the tabulation computer after the RTA on the pretext that it was a ...
  
  Failed Again: Widely-Used Diebold Touch-Screens ...
  ... when in fact votes cast on a memory card(s) are not tabulated in the results ... to either a single voting machine or their central tabulation computer. ...
  
  HACKED: VIRUS IMPLANTED, SPREAD ON DIEBOLD TOUCH ...
  The scientific study has revealed, for the first time, that a computer virus ... be compromised by viral computer code which could change vote tabulation, ...
  
  Diebold Admits Their Tabulator Software Doesn't ...
  It's obvious any competing vote tabulation corporation would want to steal computer code for their machines that can't count. Up is down. ...
  
  
  Try 'Results 1 - 10 of about 1,740 from bradblog.com for vote tabulation problem.'
  

• sheltercrow said on Nov 07, 2008....

  And then there is the Velvet Revolution blog.

• sheltercrow said on Nov 07, 2008....

  Dfer: What person are these people talking about?
  
  

• mobil said on Nov 07, 2008....

  Facts being the key word crowbait ! When will you finally have some for us? ROR

• Lucytorial said on Nov 07, 2008....

  Still sitting here watching..... waiting for something to actually be said.....thats worthy of reading.

• sheltercrow said on Nov 07, 2008....

  Good for you mobil. Your always interesting in a dark and drippy way. Keep up the good work.
  
  Lucy, Lucy, Lucy: No narcissist posts today? I take it you don't like John Pilger.

• Lucytorial said on Nov 07, 2008....

  a compliment coming from you? why thank you I like the title. The more you say my name the more I like you shelter.... remember?

• D6fer said on Nov 07, 2008....

  actually andora......if you read very closely....and maybe get someone to help you sound out the words......you will find that I implied that you are a sore winner and then told you to go fuck yourself.....I didn't ask you to do anything.
  
  As far as me making a poor attempt at being something I am not......I have no clue what you are referring to.....I am looking back at my comments......hmmmmm.....no bitter insults....that was you......until you went off on me and a few of my friends anyway.
  

• D6fer said on Nov 07, 2008....

  Sean.....you are the only one that gets it here......it does happen on both sides......andora can't seem to see past her own biased opinions.
  She obviously has a soft spot for you despite your abusive tone towards her.....me thinks she has jungle fever bud! ;p
  

• sheltercrow said on Nov 07, 2008....

  Dfer: There may be 'no bitter insults' here, but, my dear cat, your history of bogus ditto head posts leaves it's imprint. It is a 'bitter insult' to be lied to so often. And you have done it intentionally so very often.

• D6fer said on Nov 08, 2008....

  Lied to? oh do tell! come on Mr. Cut n Paste.....lets see em!
  
  oh btw.......who got a scolding from the SoulCast admin for chickenshit posting on my blog? That wouldn't have been you would it? .....some honesty?
  

• sheltercrow said on Nov 08, 2008....

  Dfer: A user merely has to read any comment I have left on your neo-Limbaugh posts. I have not found a single instance, other than while you were 'back peddling' where you have not tried to palm off bogus assertions. A 'real bad habit you have there.'
  
  I have never had any contact with the admin here. As for 'chickenshit [sic] posting' on your blog, I personally would have assumed is was in reference to what you post. Only a chicken-shit would palm off bogus assertions so easily without checking their source.

• D6fer said on Nov 08, 2008....

  well lets see.....all of my posts are still there....what happened to yours?
  
  I would love to see the source of all of your "information" that you overload every blog that you post to........you either have some sort of seminar liberal blog compilation for people with no opinion of their own.....or an incredible amount of time on your hands.
  
  I am not sure, but I may have you figured out......I used to think I knew who you were (not literally by name mind you) ......and then thought you might be someone else....but now things are starting to add up......yessiree potboy.....I think I am on to something.
  more on that later. :)
  

• SeanRenaud said on Nov 08, 2008....

  From a computer programmer, this simply is not true.

  Then why do they tell you to destroy your computer so thoroughly if it had and personal records on it?  And how would they fake it (and remember this needs to be easier than performing a similar task with paper) that couldn't be fixed simply by transmiting in real time to a number of independent servers?

• sheltercrow said on Nov 08, 2008....

  Dfer: I did invest a lot of time researching what I posted. Some paned out, others did not. I am a semi-retired citizen that finds pleasure in research for it's own sake.
  
  'potboy' lol. Work it out son. Take your time.
  
  Just a little background though to help. Mechanical Designer, Tooling Designer, Manufacturing Engineer, 150 credit hours. There are your hints. Have at it.
  

• D6fer said on Nov 08, 2008....

  sc......twenty questions.....do you have a garden?

• bloc said on Nov 08, 2008....

  "Then why do they tell you to destroy your computer so thoroughly if it had and personal records on it"
  
  
  I really don't know where to start. I don't really have time to give a breakdown of how a computer works. Shelter or someone actually gave some good links on this. If you press a button for Obama and it saves Mccain to disk how would you know that the button was pushed for Obama? This is nothing like putting child porn on disk and then some forensic guy finding it. If they find McCain on disk how do they know which button a person pushed. 
  
  
  "that couldn't be fixed simply by transmiting in real time to a number of independent servers?"
  
  
  This is a good question and is the pattern you often fall into. Yes, it could be easily fixed. The fact that something can be easily fixed is not proof that it is not broken. Let me put it another way. in west VA they found machines switching votes from Obama to McCain. The governor (or whomever) reacted by ordering them to "recalibrate" the machines. How do you recalibrate a digital computer? My iphone is a touch screen, it does not need recalibration. 

• D6fer said on Nov 08, 2008....

  in west VA they found machines switching votes from Obama to McCain.
  
  A. How would they know this?
  
  B. Why would it not be happening both ways?
  

• SeanRenaud said on Nov 08, 2008....

  When all is said and done and all things are considered.  Reliability, speed, dependability is paper superior? 

  That really is what this ends at.  Everything else is that wonderful "grey" area where people can muck about for years if allowed.

• bloc said on Nov 08, 2008....

  "Reliability, speed, dependability is paper superior?"
  
  
  I believe there should always be a paper trial. Ask a simple question, why would anyone argue against a receipt of your vote? Yet they have.
  
  
  @d6
  
  
  A. the vote switching happened during testing, not during the election. That's how they realized it.
  
  
  B. I have no idea. I think the software on the machines should be open source

• SeanRenaud said on Nov 08, 2008....

  I don't have a problem with a reciept.  Actually I think a receipt (two actually) should be required.  One for the location and a second for the individual.

  I would also push for a way to track individual votes (perhaps by SSN) and thus lessen the chances of something changing the results.

  I would support open source without question.

  When all is said and done though I find computers to be more reliable and trustworthy than people.

• sheltercrow said on Nov 08, 2008....

  The main problem seems to be that there is no transparency with the current electronic voting setup. That in itself violates the principle of free and open elections.
  
  The results can easily be manipulated. For starters the central tabulation computers and hard drives are located in private businesses off limit to the public. The software used in these computers and scanners is proprietary and not available for examination.

• sheltercrow said on Nov 08, 2008....

  The 'man in the middle' problem simply means anyone can set up a tap and manipulate the data stream before it gets to the tabulator. Once in the tabulator database it's quite easy to change the results because the database is available to anyone at the 'private businesses off limit to the public' and accessed with a simple 'click' on the data file. There are no 'systemic' protections, such as simple password protection, available to the 'public' officials, because the public officials, and the public, are outside the 'systemic' loop.

• bloc said on Nov 08, 2008....

  "When all is said and done though I find computers to be more reliable and trustworthy than people."
  
  
  This is an odd thing for me. In general I completely agree with you. However, when the motives of the people that make the machines is unknown, and the way they work is unknown, and the stakes are so hight then I don't. 
  
  
  When the CEO of the company making many of these machines said that he would do everything in his power to ensure Bush was elected ... well let's just say I'm not going to take his word that the machines are honest. 
  
  
  Here's a good analogy. If you gamble would you prefer video black jack (unregulated!!!) programmed by the casino or a real deck of cards that you know has all the cards?

• SeanRenaud said on Nov 08, 2008....

  You don't know the motives of the people counting either though.

  That said to specifically answer your question because I try to always answer your questions directly. . .honestly not sure.  Mostly cus gambling is entertainment and the human factor counts for something.  That said it seems that many of your problems are rooted in the fact that they aren't available for examination. 

  So where is the happy medium.  I don't know enough on computers to debate you but I imagine that the more available for examination the easier it becomes to hack because the familiarity of the software increases. 

   

• bloc said on Nov 08, 2008....

  " I don't know enough on computers to debate you but I imagine that the more available for examination the easier it becomes to hack because the familiarity of the software increases."
  
  
  There have been enormous debates about this within the open source world. It turns out that open source tends to be more secure because there are also 1000 eyes looking at it with good intent and telling the creator how to plug the holes. 
  
  
  "You don't know the motives of the people counting either though."
  
  
  True, but the paper trail ensures that misdeeds can be corrected. It's really easy to fix electronic voting, have it print a paper trail. I can't understand why this isn't a huge issue for all of us when we're talking about the integrity of our democracy. 

• sheltercrow said on Nov 09, 2008....

  This discussion is splinting hairs on a bald head.
  
  Computers are only as reliable as the people who design, build and program them. Nothing more. The optical scanning and touch screen equipment can be hacked in under a minute. The central tabulator computers require no hack because they are already in the possession of the potential hackers.

• sheltercrow said on Nov 09, 2008....

  Electronic Voting Machines Whistle Blower: Added: March 20, 2007
  
  

• sheltercrow said on Nov 09, 2008....

  Princeton University Exposes Diebold Flaws: Added: September 13, 2006
  
  

• sheltercrow said on Nov 09, 2008....

  Spoonamore - Sep 2008 - Part 1 of 9
  
  http://www.velvetrevolution.us - Cyber Security expert Stephen Spoonamore discusses electronic voting vulnerabilities.
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Nov 09, 2008....

  True, but the paper trail ensures that misdeeds can be corrected.

  Cept as we found out in 2000 any number of things can happen to paper.  Everything from hanging chads, to the rediculous draw a line system to the fill in the bubble.  Which if I'm not mistaken all all of those kinds of ballots are actually read by computer anyway. 

• D6fer said on Nov 09, 2008....

  I think the solution is simple....someone may have mentioned a receipt earlier.....why not use the electronic aspect for the initial tally and then rely on a receipt system for verification under contested circumstances......you vote....it is recorded electronically and you are given an anonymous receipt with a unique number corresponding to the electronic record as well as a carbon copy generated simultaneously with the original ....much like a cash register.

• sheltercrow said on Nov 09, 2008....

  If the the electronic voting system does not work to satisfaction it should not be used at all. Paper ballots should be employed till a secure system is developed.

• D6fer said on Nov 09, 2008....

  paper ballots are also worthless until you verify that the person casting that vote is who he or she says they are.....proper identification is key.....you should at least have to provide as much I.D. as you do when you buy a beer.

• andora said on Nov 09, 2008....

  i apologize for being behind in this conversation, but i thought i would help you understand something sean, as you are laughing about my solution for the bogus War on Terror
  
  you said, "4. Obama needs to create a special arm of the CIA that is invisible, covert...armed to the teeth ninja style...connected to the most sensitive level of the Intelligence arm...entirely mobile...they are in effect US Bounty hunters...

  You're against the US Patriot Act?  LoL." In regard to the Patriot Act, you are only partially correct...I am against the attack on civil rights that is built into the act, and i do not wish to institutionalize communications invasion against US citizens at this time...in the future I believe we will have to stop spying on the rest of the world...but, that is a way off yet.

  My point in wanting a highly skilled comando unit is that using conventional military to get at individuals that are not recognizable as a state entity is wasteful, puts military personnel in an untenable situation, harms innocent civilians on all sides of the dispute, etc... We need to be better at covert international strikes than anyone...and we need checks and balances with our judiciary and legislative bodies, something the Bush admin failed terribly at!

  
  

• andora said on Nov 09, 2008....

  D6, you said: "I implied that you are a sore winner and then told you to go fuck yourself.....I didn't ask you to do anything."
  
  whatever, did u mix up your meds? telling me to go fuck myself is a direct command to fuck myself? am i missing something here? yessssss, i'm derelict in responding days later, but i'm not done yet, since you insist on speaking shit, instead of issues...
  

• andora said on Nov 09, 2008....

  D6, you were clueless about what? "As far as me making a poor attempt at being something I am not......I have no clue what you are referring to"
  
  take the meds as prescribed my friend
  
  previously you indicated that you had made a miserable attempt at being nice to you, before you let me have it with the insults...
  
  don't bother being nice D6, its a waste of everyone's time...being your normal bigoted and opinionated self that persists in calling others bigoted and opinionated is who you really are.
  

• sheltercrow said on Nov 09, 2008....

  Dfer: Always the straw-man stuff.
  
  An I.D. 'to buy a beer' is for age not citizenship. No connection to the issue.
  
  'paper ballots' and 'voter verification' are separate issues. A verified voter would get the same results as one not verified.
  

• andora said on Nov 09, 2008....

  shit i messed the first sentence when i said 'nice to you' , i meant you were trying to be nice to me...and i, said in a very botched way...don't bother...i don't need you to be nice to me in order to put up with your presence here - that's up to sean, our host that you think i'm hot for...you do love your drug induced fantasies that you project like shit hitting a fan don't u ;]

• andora said on Nov 09, 2008....

  when you said "When all is said and done and all things are considered.  Reliability, speed, dependability is paper superior?" in regard to voting machines, i had to speak up and say,
  
  if a voting machine cannot be audited, then it is not superior
  
  it may be timely tho because no one can dispute its almighty power to tell the voter what their vote should be according to the machine handler.
  
  you seem very obtuse about this sean, and i must extend my thanks to bloc and others for trying to help you understand
  

• andora said on Nov 09, 2008....

  i completely agree with u sheltercrow about this statement, "If the the electronic voting system does not work to satisfaction it should not be used at all. Paper ballots should be employed till a secure system is developed."
  
  exactly
  

• andora said on Nov 09, 2008....

  anyway, back to Sarah Palin
  
  the treatment of Sarah Palin by her handlers and the mccain campaign demonstrates what we would've gotten if the likes of mccain became president. 4 more years of the shark pool mentality that says strike first, ask questions later!
  

• sheltercrow said on Nov 09, 2008....

  Paper ballots no doubt have their problems. But they are 'known' problems with a history that can be addressed. Working out the bugs with paper ballots has been a work in progress for years. There is an highly acceptable degree of transparency from the efforts of many people and organizations.
  
  Electronic voting systems are new and untested. To simply install new 'electronic voting systems' with 'proprietary software' and 'unsecured networks' for tabulating the results is foolish to the extreme. A 'business concern' would reject it 'out-of-hand' as absurd. So why should the government accept it?

• sheltercrow said on Nov 09, 2008....

  Donald Rumsfeld knows what I mean
  
  

• andora said on Nov 09, 2008....

  shelter, i couldn't open your donald rumsfield movie...it just keeps looping

• sheltercrow said on Nov 09, 2008....

  Did you click the little triangle on the bottom left?

• andora said on Nov 09, 2008....

  I agree with your comment about the absurdity of a voting machine that cannot be audited shelter, as to why the government should trust such a machine....it is not the government that instituted the DIEBOLD debacle, it is the neo-con GOP- yes there are many democrats as well...all i need to say is got Lieberman?
  

• D6fer said on Nov 09, 2008....

  I should watch my meds andora? LOL....shit....I had to read and reread everything you typed to sort it out! And you used to be a journalist? Thank God for copy editors and proof readers!
  
  shelter....are you and andora sharing a bong or what?
  
  An I.D. 'to buy a beer' is for age not citizenship. No connection to the issue.
  
  'paper ballots' and 'voter verification' are separate issues. A verified voter would get the same results as one not verified.
  
  Did I even mention citizenship? Isn't voter fraud the bigger issue here?
  

• sheltercrow said on Nov 10, 2008....

  Dfer: Have you done any research to see if the 'voter fraud' issue might not be a fraud itself? The only people talking 'voter fraud' are those that have never looked into it. Its a bogus issue.
  
  
  Voter Fraud Virtually Non-Existent, Study Finds
  
  James Joyner | Thursday, April 12, 2007
  
  Despite a five-year crackdown on voter fraud, there is little evidence that it is a real problem, the NYT reports in a front-page story by Eric Lipton and Ian Urbina.
  
  
  Although Republican activists have repeatedly said fraud is so widespread that it has corrupted the political process and, possibly, cost the party election victories, about 120 people have been charged and 86 convicted as of last year. Most of those charged have been Democrats, voting records show. Many of those charged by the Justice Department appear to have mistakenly filled out registration forms or misunderstood eligibility rules, a review of court records and interviews with prosecutors and defense lawyers show.
  
  In Miami, an assistant United States attorney said many cases there involved what were apparently mistakes by immigrants, not fraud.
  
  In Wisconsin, where prosecutors have lost almost twice as many cases as they won, charges were brought against voters who filled out more than one registration form and felons seemingly unaware that they were barred from voting. One ex-convict was so unfamiliar with the rules that he provided his prison-issued identification card, stamped “Offender,” when he registered just before voting.
  
  A handful of convictions involved people who voted twice. More than 30 were linked to small vote-buying schemes in which candidates generally in sheriff’s or judge’s races paid voters for their support.
  
  [...]
  
  Mistakes and lapses in enforcing voting and registration rules routinely occur in elections, allowing thousands of ineligible voters to go to the polls. But the federal cases provide little evidence of widespread, organized fraud, prosecutors and election law experts said.
  
  
  They provide a nice graphic to illustrate their findings:
  

• sheltercrow said on Nov 10, 2008....

  And now... something completely different... From the telegraphs 'news of the obvious'
  
  
  Sarah Palin blamed by the US Secret Service over death threats against Barack Obama
  
  Sarah Palin's attacks on Barack Obama's patriotism provoked a spike in death threats against the future president, Secret Service agents revealed during the final weeks of the campaign.

• sheltercrow said on Nov 10, 2008....

  News from around the corner.
  
  
  This imbecilic little man has given me a direction and a purpose that I had previously been lacking.
  
  A 2004 classified order allowing the U.S. to attack the Qaeda terrorist network anywhere in the world was used to authorize nearly a dozen undisclosed attacks.
  
  Thousands of rape kits remain untouched by crime labs, which is an insult to women and a loss for effective law enforcement.
  
  Monday’s White House meeting between President George W. Bush and President-elect Barack Obama presents a remarkable contrast between one of the least popular two-term presidents in modern times at the close of his administration, and one of the most popular candidates to win the presidency.
  

• D6fer said on Nov 10, 2008....

  geez shelter......ACORN.....ACORN....ACORN.....denying it does not make it so.
  
  Voter Fraud is real!
  

• andora said on Nov 10, 2008....

  ACORN D6?
  
  that has nothing to do with electoral voting machines
  
  acorn is a dead horse
  
  and yes, trying to respond to your attacks D6 has very little to do with the fact that Sarah Palin and John McCain are mean-spirited and willing to lie, lie, lie to get ahead...if they had won the administration you would have seen people wailing and knashing their teeth around the world. duck the mean mothers are still in charge!
  
  must suck to still be supporting the mean team D6
  
  don't you think the mccain camp was more like a shark pit...and after the election mccain looked the other way while his sharks had her for lunch. Not that i feel sorry for sarah, she deserves to slide into the stench from whence she came, but really, they would have been a frightening administration!
  
  and how can you look the other way as mccain and palin lie through their teeth and then bring up something as wimpy as acorn! This adminsitration wants to hear from everyone about their vision. I link their new website over at my blog. I submitted my suggestions directly to the President-Elect. So come on D6, we are both Americans and we are being asked to work together in earnest this time...
  
  as a civic volunteer for the past 9 years I am jazzed about the fact that Obama wants to create outlets for our youth to volunteer as a pathway to college. You have children D6, can you not see the merit in this national agenda?
  

• andora said on Nov 10, 2008....

  sorry i was so very impotent at defending myself against your insults, but, I've grown used to this now and would miss it if you didn't hurl insults...i've been conditioned by many people here to expect the kind of hostility you all tried to stick on me...yeah, i can fight and play 'throw the kaka' in the sand pit...that's all i wanted to do after all when the bush administration was sodomizing our country in the name of jesus
  
  u all must be so proud of bush...is that why he banned the pics of the fallen soldiers, so you could still maintain a modicum of pretense  that he is worth respecting?
  
  I'll bet the meeting between bush and obama will be tense to begin with, however, i do believe that obama will create some common ground and try to help bush leave office with a little bit of love from the opposition. that's just the kind of person obama is. me...i not that mature after all ;]
  

• one_wired_kitty said on Nov 10, 2008....

  I didn't vote for Obama but I wish him good luck in getting this country's economy out of the shitter.

• bloc said on Nov 10, 2008....

  @d6
  
  
  one think I always wanted to point out but never did ... well actually two things.
  
  
  1) acorn turned in the people who registered fake names. They as an organization did not promote it or try to cover it up. 
  
  
  2) fake registrations is not voter fraud unless someone tried to show up and vote as Fred Flinstone. There is no evidence that anything like this happened. Registering fake names is not the same thing as casting fake votes!

• sheltercrow said on Nov 10, 2008....

  Bloc: Dfer is being obstinate (read childish). We have discussed ACORN in detail before concerning the two issues you mention, among a multitude of others. He simply refuses to give up his bogus ditto-head points. Evidence to the contrary is simply ignored. It would expose him to ridicule from his fellow ditto-heads.
  

• sheltercrow said on Nov 10, 2008....

  The 'American Center for Voting Rights,' which your article is based on, is a bad link to a extinct site to start.
  
  According to wiki
  
  
  The American Center for Voting Rights or ACVR was a non-profit organization founded by Mark F. "Thor" Hearne that operated from March 2005 to May 2007 and pushed for laws to reduce voter intimidation and voter fraud, and supported requiring photo ID for voters. Its lobbying arm was called the American Center for Voting Rights Legislative Fund. Critics noted that it was "the only prominent non-governmental organization claiming that voter fraud is a major problem," and called the Center a Republican Party front group whose support of a photo ID requirement was intended to suppress the minority vote.
  
  Source Watch
  
  
  The American Center for Voting Rights (ACVR) / American Center for Voting Rights Legislative Fund (ACVR Legislative Fund) was "the only 'Voting Rights' group called to testify before congressional hearings held by the now-disgraced Rep. Bob Ney (R-OH) on what went wrong in Ohio's 2004 Presidential Election."
  
  Among the credentials for ACVR's director, Mark F. (Thor) Hearne, who was scheduled to testify as a witness at the hearing, is the fact that Hearne, a former Reagan Administration official, was "National Election Counsel" for Bush-Cheney '04 Inc. and Missouri counsel to Bush-Cheney, as well as "other very Republican credentials."
  

• sheltercrow said on Nov 10, 2008....

  Dfer: Do you ever actually check what you read and post?
  
  The second 'must read' pdf does not exist. http://www.ac4vr.com/reports/032405/OhioElectionReport.pdf.
  
  The third 'must read' refers to 'absentee ballots' that 'have been cast' by people who died before the election but after they mailed in the ballots.
  
  Then there is a red herring link... 'New laws soon will require Americans to have passports when traveling to countries such as Canada and Mexico.'
  
  I could go on... but you get the point.
  

• andora said on Nov 10, 2008....

  dear sheltercrow, we got a belly laugh and a half when we finally got around to listening to sec of defense donnie rumsfeld expose the reality of an entire nation gone mad...we, my inner group of political junkies here on maui -coffee clutch at badass coffee, anyway, as far as neo-cons go - rumsfeld was the ultimate poster child for the dominant paradigm
  
  we love donald rumsfeld...we do not fit the neo-liberals in that we watch pugilism with gladiator type glee, while swilling copious amounts of amber ale...and we love rumsfeld
  
  he is the ultimate American, along the line of Teddy Rosevelt...you know teddy did not win the Spanish American War, nor did he sink the Spanish Armada - the first was won by sheer American bluff (no food or ammunition during the invasion...just balls without brains) and the second was victorious because Mother Nature herself gave America teddy a golden nugget - few people know about the weirdness that happened around that war, but all of these antics demonstrate that war is hideous and wasteful....Don Rumsfeld was the perfect cover as Iraq was looted.
  
  
  

• sheltercrow said on Nov 10, 2008....

  Henry Adams
  
  
  The whole fabric of society will go to wrack if we really lay hands of reform on our rotten institutions. From top to bottom the whole system is a fraud, all of us know it, laborers and capitalists alike, and all of us are consenting parties to it.
  
  
  
  
  National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive NSPD-51
  
  

• sheltercrow said on Nov 10, 2008....

  Ayn Rand and Mike Wallace 1959 part 1
  
  
  
  Ayn Rand's message to the GOP Candidates
  
  

• D6fer said on Nov 10, 2008....

  Andora.....I have moved on.....look at any of my comments on anyones blog since the election....I am not complaining one bit about this election......the way I see it, Obama won beyond any amount of fraud that may or may not have happened.
  
  Shelter.....I am done with this issue with you.....you are all absolutely right....the republicans are evil cheaters....they rig every election.....Obama probably really won every state and got about 95% of the vote.....you are an idiot.
  
  bloc......1 in the cases they were caught I am sure that is the case....did ACORN expose those violations?
  
  2. what exactly do you think the intent of fake registrations is?
  
  andora....I will check that out! I do want to give a few suggestions....I think that is great......I don't think you can mandate charity though......btw.....you need to start at the top of this post and see who drew first blood here....I had no intention of insulting you untill you started in on me......I try not to start shit with people.....but I am not going to sit here and take it either.
  

• D6fer said on Nov 12, 2008....

  wow.....they sound like poster children for liberalism......so why aren't they held up on pedestals like all of the inner city teenage single moms are?
  

• bloc said on Nov 12, 2008....

  "bloc......1 in the cases they were caught I am sure that is the case....did ACORN expose those violations?"
  
  I believe so.
  
  "what exactly do you think the intent of fake registrations is?"
  
  Usually the people doing the registrations are paid on the number of registrations. The intent is to make more money and I believe this was the case with the ones you are speaking of. The people doing the registrations are just people hired off the street which is why I find it unconvincing when you act like ACORN did this intentionally.
  
  
  

• D6fer said on Nov 12, 2008....

  you believe so? got any proof?

• bloc said on Nov 13, 2008....

  the burden of proof is on you to show that ACORN did something wrong. I have yet to see any.

• D6fer said on Nov 13, 2008....

  I guess as long as they can use the same kind of excuses that you are making for them, then I guess we will never have proof will we? .....funny how allegations against republicans and conservatives need only be that for them to be drug through the mud....but a mountain of complaints against a liberal political tool such as ACORN and it is all swept under the rug.

• GEORGEBUSHSUCKS said on Nov 14, 2008....

  if bush stole the first election he stole them both. Bush has declared a "FATWAD" against anyone but the *pig rich. Now comes his pardon party for his felon friends. Shrub plans to leave a huge mess for Obama to deal with for the next 4 years.

• husbandhater said on Nov 15, 2008....

  No wonder the Fatwad shrub is being so gracious and nice. He knows he's leaving the shittest bathroom in history and he is just handing Obama the plunger and telling him"It's all yours" with a fuck you and a smile. While O is stuck surveying the shit on the walls, ceiling,and surrounding exterior. God help him.

• one_wired_kitty said on Nov 16, 2008....

  Remember people ... shit ALWAYS runs downhill.

   

• andora said on Nov 16, 2008....

  i watched the ABC video about the Marshall Law Plan that was revealed to Congress Shelter Crow and it was hard to watch, even for me. I have known about this long before Jeb Bush signed Marshall Law in to effect for Florida on September 7, 2011. They were expecting Americans to catch on, but the americans were too busy looking up Brittany's skirt after all.
  
  this is not a joke
  
  and as the REAL journalist tried to tell americans this and he mentioned the glaze that comes over their eyes and realizes they really DO NOT want to know more, I remembered these past 30 years watching the military-industrial regime hypnotize the masses. And, they are good at what they do...so, it may not be reasonable to blame the masses after all. but, it still hurts to watch heartlessness reign supreme!
  

• andora said on Nov 16, 2008....

  shelter, I was very happy to hear Ayn Rand - I see her as having an amazing insight into the polarization between the old and new = conservative v liberal
  
  what an amazing thinker, I've never read any of her books but i have definitely heard of her over the years. this was great video - Mike Wallace was ever so passionate and his questions were a great look into the popular psyche
  
  much mahalo 

• andora said on Nov 16, 2008....

  and why is Ayn Rand diametrically opposed to what i stand for sean?
  
  my comments about her take on society is based solely upon her interview above with Mike Wallace
  
  what i heard her say is that sacrifice is not a virtue
  
  i agree
  
  she also said everyone deserves to live in peace as long as they do not impose their ideals upon others
  
  i agree
  
  she also says that our government has been invaded by irrational and emotional religionists who want sacrifice to be the morality that designs our institutions
  
  i agree
  
  she also points out the folley of the polarized views of both conservatives and liberals
  
  i agree, even though i tend to be a fringe liberal in regard to social politics and whether or not the gov should do anything about moral issues, other than protect people from predators - and, i am a conservative when it comes to fiscal policy
  
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Nov 16, 2008....

  Are you really going to make me start quoting you?  Or are you joking somehow and it's not carrying over well over the internet?  I'm actually shocked Shelter is quoting the woman who would be her arch enemy if she were alive. 

• andora said on Nov 17, 2008....

  darlingdearhoneysweetiepie
  
  you do not need to quote me to prove that my position is always subjective and rarely objective
  
  as well, i have been saying for years now here at soulcast that i see both points of view in the polarized conversation that we are all dancing round and round
  
  i get vicious and indignant when people use dishonesty to subvert the conversation...this is what the neo-cons did to the republican party
  
  my position is all purple
  
  the red and the blue merge to be a unified force that is able to make change and adapt in a sustainable way. as it is the polarization has both the red and the blue stuck in the mud arguing about who took the tire jack out of the trunk and lost it?
  
  the reason why i am unpopular in both camps is because i have been critical of all those who choose polarization over changing the conversation to be inclusive of all points of view. this closely mirrors my spiritual work in aligning the North and the South as a way of empowering the East and the West. I talk about Free Will and learning how to become sustainable so that we can have the desire to help those who are not there yet.
  
  I have never read any of Rands books, I was drawing my conclusions about her message from the Mike Wallace interview...from her words i felt a deep appreciation and agreement with the spirit of what she was suggesting
  
  i never advocate sacrifice...she thinks its foolish as do i
  

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