• mixednuts said on Oct 12, 2008....

  This is the best government money can buy! McCain is Bush light and practices(plays) *Pinocchio politics and *McCain bingo. I'm voting for Obama!

• mixednuts said on Oct 12, 2008....

  Being that Obama is anti Bush we should give him the chance!

• bloc said on Oct 12, 2008....

  I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with government playing a greater or lesser role in markets. Markets don't exist without government so the idea that government is inherently bad is a non-starter for me. We need smart government and sometimes that means more government and sometimes it means less.
  
  
  My greatest fear is that our political culture is one in which a politician can't get elected if they tell the truth. The truth is that taxes have to go up to pay for our wars and this bailout. Even without the bailout our taxes would have to go up to pay for the wars. This is a tough situation that we have to deal with and our politicians can't be honest about it because they will lose their election if they tell the truth.

• SeanRenaud said on Oct 12, 2008....

  Firstly I had over looked this particular post and I'm flattered that my opinion is valued enough that my attention was specifically called to it.
   
  I think the unfortnate reality is that taxes are going to go up.  That's just  how we are going and neither candidate is seriously talking about taking specific actions to lower the budget and even a lower budget wouldn't (shouldn't) lower taxes because we do have debts to start paying off. 
   
  It took a while but the more and more I've looked at the facts and figures I'm not against National Health Care anymore.  I just want it done very carefully in a way that encourages the market to compete as much as possible.  I don't care if the money comes from Uncle Sam or from Uncle Al, or from me as long as it is GOING to the person who is doing the best job.
   
  As far as amnesty given most of what I've heard and read suggests that while we'll likely (hope not, I'm pretty much setting up letters to be sent out to my senators and reps every month putting pressure on them to stop that)  it would likely happen faster under McCain than Obama.  Obama and the likely heavily Democratic Congress have a plethora of things more important to them.  Universal Health Care, ending the war in Iraq, closing Gitmo to start with that amnesty might not happen for a while as they work on other pet projects.  If McCain wins against presumably with a Democrat Congress he'd be likely to make a B line for the one thing everybody agrees on just to get things moving.
   
  Not that it matters since either way we loose.

• ALIENated said on Oct 12, 2008....

  
  As I have said many times, we have a middle-of-the-road Democrat (McCain) and
  a socialist (Obama) running. Go visit a VA hospital and see what socialized medicine
  is like. They make all the decisions for you, if at all. They were not too bad a while
  back, but it is degenerating as time goes on. Socialized anything does not work well
  and raising taxes does not raise more revenue. Any economist that knows anything
  will tell you that.
  
  

• D6fer said on Oct 12, 2008....

  I really don't think that the average American (and apparently sean and bloc are average) really knows just how much tax is collected already from the taxpayers......it is staggering.......there are so many different taxes for a reason, and that is to keep taxpayers in the dark as to just how much is being collected .......I heard the other day that there are trillions of dollars that are unaccounted for............I think we definitely need oversight on wall street with some stiff penalties for those who destroy companies and then leave with millions.....I think their needs to be a special prosecutor and an investigation of congress.....not done by congress

• D6fer said on Oct 12, 2008....

  The US Government cannot account for trillions of dollars. The DoD reported $1.1 trillion missing in FY 2000 alone!     Source
  
  
  

• bloc said on Oct 12, 2008....

  weren't you the one saying we needed to increase military funding?
  
  
  
  

• stopmediabias said on Oct 13, 2008....

  We are in a hole right now.  As soon as that hole is filled in we will be out of this mess.  Sooner or later all these homes that were foreclosed will began to be resold and you will see the market stabilize.  We have got to encourage higher growth not higher taxes.  History has shown we do far better as a country if our citizens have more access to their own money.

  Right here right now we need experience.  This entire election regardless of where you are, with this economy, terrorism, Russia's flexing, the global warming scam,  we need someone in the White House who knows what he is doing and has good character.

• ALIENated said on Oct 13, 2008....

  
  Oh no. It is more important that we have a black(ish) man, and it
  must be a Democrat, even is he does not know doodle squat. Secure
  that wool over your eyes you liberal Democrats. Secure that wool.
  We are about to get Jimmy/Bill Carter/Clinton again, but at least it
  is not G.W. Bush. hee haw
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Oct 13, 2008....

  Well since Clinton > Bush in every single imaginable way that's a good thing.
   
  Anyway D6.  For starters I've said several times that we need to find out exactly how much money we have and where its going.  As it stands unless you've got a way to actually track down money in this system and find where it's going we have to assume that the politicians are being honest with us because we really don't have a choice in the matter.
   
  That said what does it matter if we collect 5 million or seven trillion if we are spending eight trillion?  Clearly our debt grows constantly and that isn't happening because we have too much money.
   
  *Edit:  I'm not a racist, I'm just the ONLY person bringing up the fact that there is a black (ish) man in this election.
   
  I honestly don't think that Wall Street is truly the root of this problem, it's just the visible vector.  So I think your oversight would be wasted.

• bloc said on Oct 13, 2008....

  "Right here right now we need experience. "
  
  What we need is good judgement. Cheney and Rumsfeld had experience,and we see what that got us when judgement was poor.

• D6fer said on Oct 13, 2008....

  sean....if we are collecting 7 trillion and 2 trillion is disappearing while we need just 6 trillion to balance the budget....then i cant see raising anyones taxes......and that is the case in my opinion (I just pulled the numbers out of the air though)
  look at how much pork hit the backside of the bailout bill......and that is just a drop in the bucket.....not to mention the missing funds.......no, what this country needs is people like us making sure that our congressmen know that we know what is going on and that we want it to stop!
  

• SeanRenaud said on Oct 13, 2008....

  If we are collecting 7 trillion  and we only need 6 and 2 is vanishing into the ether then yes tht will solve it.  And yes I've said several times we need to find out where all the money is going and why.  We need to cut out as many middlemen as humanly possible.
   
  The problem however D6 is that we don't know what's going on and that needs to be fixed.  I know there is "pork" attached to that bill.  But I don't know what all of itis or what all of it is doing.  I know that some kids in Arizona got some wooden arrows, but I don't know what other pork is on there and what exactly it is doing and how. 
   
  Part of the problem is the lingo, for all we know that pork could really just be earmarks making sure that x% goes directly to struggling familes.  (it isn't but still)
   
  All we know is that there are a ton of earmarks, 450 pages total and I know without asking that you haven't read that bill.  I haven't.  bloc, silverwhisper, ALIENated, Sheltercrow and copsunited didnt' read the bill.   Honestly I'd be shocked if even most of Congress read it from beginning to end.
   
  If I could change just one thing in Congress it would be fixing the system so that the common man can figure out what is going on, exactly.  As was pointed out in the debates McCain has voted against funding the troops a number of times.  It was because of the earmarks attached to it of course, but we only know what they allow us to know about any given bill.  Even if you can find it online, nobody has the time to comb through 450 pages of intentionally over verbose crap to make an actual educated decision.

• bloc said on Oct 13, 2008....

  @d6
  
  
  people talk about pork, which is a waste, but it's only a small fraction of the total budget. removing pork will have no significant impact on the overall budget.
  
  
  Also, let's not forget Palin is aggressively defended the pork that went to alaska when she was in charge, of which she praised repeatedly while governor, and which was well above the average for the nation as a whole. If you want to focus on pork then let's do it, and be honest about Palin.
  
  

• D6fer said on Oct 13, 2008....

  if we are comparing vp candidates and pork is Biden going to stack up any better?

• bloc said on Oct 13, 2008....

  yes, alaska is at the top of the list for pork.

• D6fer said on Oct 13, 2008....

  For example:
  

  
  

  The Washington Post peeks into the sausage-making aspects of Capitol Hill legislating, and discovers that Barack Obama and Joe Biden have a longer partnership than first thought.  Obama pursued over $3 million in earmarks for Biden’s son, at the same time that Biden claims he didn’t get personally lobbied by Hunter Biden for his clients.  Obama apparently provided the necessary cover for his wingman:

  Sen. Barack Obama sought more than $3.4 million in congressional earmarks for clients of the lobbyist son of his Democratic running mate, Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware, records show. Obama succeeded in getting $192,000 for one of the clients, St. Xavier University in suburban Chicago.

  Obama’s campaign has taken a hard stance against the world of lobbying in the nation’s capital. Obama said he limits his own efforts to get money for pet projects — a process known as earmarking — to those that benefit the public. He has posted his earmark requests on his presidential campaign Web site to encourage transparency. …

  An analysis for The Washington Post by Taxpayers for Common Sense of Hunter Biden’s firm’s lobbying business found that its clients collected $2.7 million in earmarks in the last fiscal year.

  source
  

• D6fer said on Oct 13, 2008....

  just in case you don't follow the link....here is the remainder
  
  

  Their investment in Hunter Biden’s salary has paid large dividends.  With so many friends among his father’s colleagues, Hunter didn’t need to meet with Dad to score pork for his clients.  It’s a sterling example of how members of Congress offer hypocritical sanctimony on their relations with lobbyists while ensuring that family and friends get their share from the public trough.

  One particularly interesting case involves a private Catholic university.  Democrats insist that school vouchers for urban parents would violate the Constitution because the parents might choose to send their children to parochial schools.  However, since Hunter Biden signed St. Xavier University, a four-year, 5,600-student institution run by the Roman Catholic Sisters of Mercy in Orland Park, IL as a client, he has managed to secure them over $300,000 in federal grants.  Hunter specifically landed St. Xavier U after telling them he could get them government pork.

  This is the kind of activity against which Barack Obama inveighs on the campaign trail.  While in the Senate, though, he enables it through these kind of quid pro quo arrangements that give the appearance that Biden has no conflict of interest.  In contrast, John McCain doesn’t do earmarks at all — not for himself, not for his friends, and not for his political allies.

  One candidate talks the talk, and one candidate walks the walk.  The former picked a porker who took almost $7 million from lobbyists and lawyers over the last 20 years, sources which this candidate has demonized for months on the stump.  The latter wants to end the practice altogether and promises a confrontation with both parties in Congress if elected.  Which candidate will actually try to bring change to Washington?

  
  

• bloc said on Oct 13, 2008....

  this doesn't change the fact that alaska is king of pork. Palin bragged about how good alaska was at getting pork. 
  
  
  I'm not saying that teh dems are saints, but if you are arguing that our spending is out of control due to pork then you must also conclude that palin is one of hte last people you would vote for.

• D6fer said on Oct 13, 2008....

  do I have a third choice that has a snowballs chance in hell of winning? if not then I'll take the lesser of two evils.....McCain/Palin

• bloc said on Oct 13, 2008....

  did you see palin shamelessly lying today? She said to multiple different questioners that the investigation cleared her of any hint of ethical violations. One reporter said "but the report said that you did abuse your power and violate the ethics rules". She repeated, I'm glad that it found I had not violated any ethics rules.
  
  
  This is beyond the usually political dishonesty is it not?

• stopmediabias said on Oct 14, 2008....

  Open up Palin's closet and you will see a moth fly out, open up Obama's closet and you will be crushed by the massive stack of skeletons piled in there.  Now we can add ACORN to the list.

• SeanRenaud said on Oct 14, 2008....

  Ok that's laughable SMB.  Not that Obama doesn't have a few small bones in there but Palin. . .shit it's like a Stephen King novel in there.  Ye who enter abandon all hope. 
   
  I'm really thinking McCain picked her because for whatever reason he didn't want to win the election.  I've got enough respect for the man to believe this was intentional.

• bloc said on Oct 15, 2008....

  again, palins lies about the report are far beyond the norm of political dishonestly. 
  
  
  The report clearly and unequivically says that she violated ethics laws. She says that she is glad the report cleared her of all ethics violations. Reporters then pointed out that it said the opposite and she still said, "i'm glad I"ve been cleared of all wrong doing".
  
  
  This is the most shameless lying I've seen in a very long time. This shoudl be unnacceptable to americans when electing an official and it is a good measure of whether a person puts country first or party first. Anyone that still defends her is putting party before country.

• D6fer said on Oct 16, 2008....

  hey....at least she doesn't cohort with terrorists!  

• bloc said on Oct 16, 2008....

  if you believe that obama cohorted with terrorists then you believe that Bush did too right? He met with the taliban prior to 9/11 and worked with them to build a pipeline. We all know that this doesn't make Bush a terrorist in the same way we know that it doesn't make Obama a terrorist.
  
  
  However, this lie of Palin's is so egregious that is a test of whether a person cares only about party or not. Anyone that defends this or her at this point cares more about the R by her name than they do about america.

• stopmediabias said on Oct 16, 2008....

  Bloc-why would you even mention that about President Bush, you think he is a worse terrorist than bin Laden.

  You guys have nominated a guy who's politcal carreer was kicked off in a terrorist's house, who sat for 20 years in a church listening to a terrible racist, who attended a rally put on by a black version of Hitler, and you are saying we are caring more about the R by her name? 

   And even the little experience Palin has it is far more than Obama. 

• SeanRenaud said on Oct 16, 2008....

  Remember kids if you can't win a debate on the merits of your case you can always play the Hitler card.  It's like a Joker, it beats logic, trumps fact and elevates your point to the stratusphere!

• bloc said on Oct 16, 2008....

  as I said, this will show who only cares about the R by someone's name. 

Comment on "The bigger issue on the election and the economy."

Currently tagged	politics McCain Corruption wall street Democrats Republicans scream (Click to add tags below)
Tag this post	(Separate tags using commas, for example: New York, dating, vegetarian)
Your comment
	Comment Anonymously