bloc's tags:
no seriously, she is a fucking joke

COURIC: Why isn’t it better, Governor Palin, to spend $700 billion helping middle-class families who are struggling with health care, housing, gas and groceries? Allow them to spend more, and put more money into the economy, instead of helping these big financial institutions that played a role in creating this mess?

PALIN: That’s why I say I, like every American I’m speaking with, we're ill about this position that we have been put in. Where it is the taxpayers looking to bail out. But ultimately, what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the health care reform that is needed to help shore up our economy. Um, helping, oh, it’s got to be about job creation, too. Shoring up our economy, and putting it back on the right track. So health care reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions, and tax relief for Americans, and trade — we have got to see trade as opportunity, not as, uh, competitive, um, scary thing, but one in five jobs created in the trade sector today. We’ve got to look at that as more opportunity. All of those things under the umbrella of job creation.



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Comments

  • bloc said on Sep 25, 2008....
    do you remember the time in high school when you were supposed to give an oral report on some book and you didn't really read the book so you get up in front of the class and try to ramble off talking points just to get a passing grade. 

    Doesn't her interview remind you of that?
  • SeanRenaud said on Sep 25, 2008....
    I've actually wondered if the opposite plan wouldn't actually be better.  What's the quick math tell us?  700 billion dollars/ 300 million citizens once you factor out minors, and remember that married couples would get a double share. . . I reckon a lot less people would be forclosing. 
     
    I'm sure there is a very basic reason why this hasn't even been suggested, what is that?
  • ALIENated said on Sep 25, 2008....
    
    I wonder if Palin can spell "IS".
    
    
  • sheltercrow said on Sep 26, 2008....
    Part 1 of Sarah/Katie. I personally cannot understand a thing she says.



    Part 2 (jump to 1.40)

  • sheltercrow said on Sep 26, 2008....
  • starchini said on Sep 26, 2008....
    this entire bail out thing makes me wanna vomit...if only when everyone failed we can be bailed out.  It doesnt work like that.  Let them fail...itll all work itself out...the entire idea is just so stupid...
  • andora said on Sep 26, 2008....
    i've been laughing for the last 24 hrs after i saw her inteview...

    remember the teen beauty pageant answer last year? they had the same look in their eyes. the GOP really knows how to put women in their place by offering her as a solution to our desire to see a woman in office.

    i'm glad to see the backlash on this one

    the best political theatre i have ever seen!!!!!!!!!!!
  • bloc said on Sep 26, 2008....
    @sean

    I've wondered the same thing.
  • SeanRenaud said on Sep 26, 2008....
    Darn.  I was hoping you had an answer for me.  I mean that sounds to me like it would solve the problem, would save many of the people in between and would he really really popular.
  • sheltercrow said on Sep 26, 2008....
    Krugman commenting on Palin

    AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to play for you Republican vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin’s comments on the bailout. She was interviewed by CBS’s Katie Couric. Couric appeared on The Early Show and introduced part of her interview with the Alaskan governor.

    [Palin/Couric]

    PAUL KRUGMAN: You know, I’m sorry, but, you know, I am a college teacher, and that sounds like nothing so much as a freshman who hasn’t actually done any of the—read any of the readings and is confronted with an essay question on the exam, and so he throws in sort of random paragraphs of stuff that he thinks kind of sounds like economics. That was incredible. That was totally incoherent. 
  • sheltercrow said on Sep 26, 2008....

    Shades of Nixon, CREEP and the White House Plumbers

    From the Huffington Post

    The evidence is also buried on the Website of the Majority House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.

    WASHINGTON -- Republican staff members of the US Senate Judiciary Committee infiltrated opposition computer files for a year, monitoring secret strategy memos and periodically passing on copies to the media, Senate officials told The Globe. >From the spring of 2002 until at least April 2003, members of the GOP committee staff exploited a computer glitch that allowed them to access restricted Democratic communications without a password. Trolling through hundreds of memos, they were able to read talking points and accounts of private meetings discussing which judicial nominees Democrats would fight -- and with what tactics.


    -- "Senate panel's GOP staff spied on Democrats" By Charlie Savage, Globe Staff | January 22, 2004


    Do you think that spying like this will ever end under a Palin-Rove regime? Dream on. If she and McCain are elected, then every single strategy memo and speech and debate prep note from every opposition candidate from now and on into forever will be read by the regime in power while it is still in the computers of the challengers.
  • bloc said on Sep 26, 2008....
    @sean

    I think the answer would be that that wouldn't pump credit back into the market and that many businesses depend on credit from banks.
  • SeanRenaud said on Sep 26, 2008....

    Why wouldn't it though?  Granted it is isn't everybody (or even most people) but wouldn't giving money directly to the Americans (particuarly with between 85 and 700 billion go a long way towards paying off those mortgages?  Car loans?  College loans?  Start up businesses?

     

    Whats more (is IMO) it would prove the general capitalist creed which is that those without money don't understand it and those who do, have it.  If we gave every American 100k (more than enough for a fair shape IMO) and the majority of people shook back down to their former spots I'd consider that a sucessful experiment.

  • ALIENated said on Sep 26, 2008....
    
    If she is a joke, that makes it one joke to two jokes on the Democrat
    ticket. Sorry, I left my link over on my latest post. I just cannot trust
    you to keep my links around. ha ha ha
    
    
  • sheltercrow said on Sep 27, 2008....
    Since the Senate, and Republicans specifically, work for corporate interests, all stimulus packages have to be designed, overtly or covertly, as an instrument to enhance corporate profits. The ultimate aim of all stimulus packages is to 'sell' the most profitable corporate 'good' to the citizens in the guise of a 'public service.'
  • andora said on Sep 28, 2008....
    those $600 dollar checks were an insult to most americans

    and mccain wants a gas tax holiday...how impotent can they possibly be

    your solution sean is the most reasonable way to stop what is happening

    shore the bottom up and the top could save money on security...you know the gated community solution to such a wide gap of disparity

    at least the republican house has the sanity of Being to hold this bill up so that states can get some help for the medicare glut...which under bush was a big subsidy for the pharmaceutical corporations that are killing more people than not!
  • andora said on Sep 28, 2008....
    i was just talking to my lover about your plan...we've been watching the political environment for a decade now, both on the net and cable...we read international newspapers etc...we pay attention

    out of all the stimulus plans we have heard of we like yours the most sean...that would change everything in a heartbeat. the whole nation would sigh a sigh of relief and all the bigotry about the haves and the have nots would slide into the darkness as people everywhere got on their feet. just in time for a civil works project that would establish a green industry under our national feet.

    all those who were cooking the books do not need to be bailed out for any reason...i want to see them in the unemployment line!
  • andora said on Sep 28, 2008....
    and yes ....Pallin is a joke

    have you seen how her approval rating in Alaska has plummeted?
  • SeanRenaud said on Sep 28, 2008....

    Then maybe in a rare moment of I know I'm wrong I just don't understand why.  I really don't.  For the moment I'm just going to say there are 300 million adults in America.  There aren't, that figure includes children, the real number is likely at least 100 million lower.

    If we gave every single American over the age or 18 just one million dollars the  would total would be 3 billion dollars, if we chose ten it would be 30 billion, one hundred it would be 300 billion (note this is less than half of the current bail out "plan")   Let's assume it gets taxed at 30% off the top.

    Even in California where the price of living in insane 700k buys you a house and still leaves you with at least 150k for college or whatever else you choose (if you were married you would get double that and ideally invest it in your children)

    One obvious flaw I'm seeing in my plan is it would require certain markets, such as housing to be strictly regulated so you didn't start selling tiny cheap houses for nearly a million dollars.

    I think most people would be able to pay off their mortgags with a few 700k, most would be able to get out of the majority of their other debt as well and then the rest of this money would naturally flow back to wall street.  Some would inevitably get caught up in little old lady bank accounts, and. . .well historically lottery winners don't seem to save or invest well so a lot of people would end up right back where they started, but this time they would truly have nobody to blame but themselves.

    The thing is that a Senator that proposed this plan would be loved forever and would be President four years from now, even if it he was from the party of the current incumbant.

    So the fact that nobody has proposed this means there is something so fundamentaly flawed with the plan that everybody and their mother knows it and I just can't see it cus I'm a dumb kid.

  • sheltercrow said on Sep 30, 2008....
    SR: 'If we gave every single American over the age or 18...'

    Your math is a little off.

    200 million x 1 million = 200,000,000,000,000. Thats 200 trillion.

    1 trillion / 200 million = 1,000,000,000,000 / 200,000,000 = 5,000.
  • husbandhater said on Oct 01, 2008....
    WOW and everyone is jumping on their bandwagon b/c she is a woman. Some of the American public would do anything NOT to elect O including placing this idiot as close to National office as possible. She is the FEMALE George Bush. I shall call her Georgina. I shake my head in shame as we will be laughed at as a country if she and Mac skate by. I shake my head in sorrow as Americans will let race and not the actual FACTS and evidence(Bush Jr wasn't enough idiot for us already?) lead them to make the proper choice instead of the improper 1.
     
    This is a sad day in America if this is true.
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 01, 2008....
    Thank you SC.  I knew I had to have fucked up somewhere (and I suspected it was with the numbers) but I knew something had to be fucked up in there some place.) 
  • falling said on Oct 01, 2008....
    I'm not sure if Couric is a great interviewer or a horrible interviewer...either way, both Palin and Biden sounded like idiots during their interview with her...the debate tomorrow should be a lot of fun!  Hope they have an interpreter for both of them to help those of us who speak plain english understand what they are saying!   LOL
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 01, 2008....

    Seriously we need to stop this.  Palin has been torn down so completely that just like Obama only needed to tread water against McCain to come out the winner Palin only needs to refrain from eating a live kitten and she'll destroy Biden.

  • sheltercrow said on Oct 01, 2008....
    Biden and Palin will be really fun. An old fool and a young fool. Lol.

  • sheltercrow said on Oct 01, 2008....
    When the main line media have these stories you have to wonder if their not staffed by Alien's Martian relatives. Their mentioned in the Huff Post.

    Wall Street Journal: Palin Called A "Formidable Foe"...

    NY Times: Palin "Held Her Own"... "Confident"...

    Former Palin Debater: She's A "Master" Of "The Glittering Generality"...

    Obama Campaign Manager: "She's A Terrific Debater"...

    McCain Senior Adviser: "I Seriously Hope That People Continue To Underestimate The Most Popular Governor In America"...

  • Fallyn said on Oct 01, 2008....
    it gave me a headache to try to decipher that......then i gave up when i realized she really didn't actually have anything to say.
  • D6fer said on Oct 01, 2008....
    Question: How do you tell if a liberal is worried about a conservative winning a political office?

    Answer: They post a blog titled "______is a fucking joke"


  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 01, 2008....
    LoL. C'mon D6, you can't possibly be deep enough in the kool ade to be taking Palin seriously.
  • kelly said on Oct 01, 2008....
    Yes, a joke.  But more to the point she is an embarrassment.  It was bad enough with George Bush but Palin is just over the top embarrassing.  The only thing she has going for her is narcissism.
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 02, 2008....
    When the main line media have these stories you have to wonder if they're not staffed by Alien's Martian relatives.

    Her daughter was drinking alcohol in some pictures she'd posted on the net. At 17, that's illegal in all 50 states.

    So, the candidate from the Republican party's VP has an underage, pregnant, unwed, and seemingly alcoholic for a daughter?

    Senior McCain campaign officials said the presidential candidate knew of Bristol's pregnancy when he selected Mrs Palin last week and that he decided that it did not disqualify the 44-year-old governor in any way.

    Where are the "family values" they hold so dear?

    What if a democrat released this statement...

    "Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. As Bristol faces the responsibilities of adulthood, she knows she has our unconditional love and support,"

    "Bristol and the young man she will marry are going to realise very quickly the difficulties of raising a child, which is why they will have the love and support of our entire family. We ask the media, respect our daughter and Levi's privacy as has always been the tradition of children of candidates,"
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 02, 2008....
    And in case your wondering... here is a link to the SR laws for Alaska.

    Alaska Statutory Rape Laws from laborlawtalk

    Fortunately for that 'I don't want kids' 'F---in' Red-Neck'

    It is statutory rape in Alaska for someone to have sex with a partner under 16 if that partner is more than three years younger, but there is no rape if the two are within three years of each other.
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 02, 2008....
    To be fair I've said it before and I'll say it again, our age of consent laws in this country are insane.
  • D6fer said on Oct 02, 2008....
    shelter.....I raised my kids the best way i knew how too.....and somehow they found a way to screw things up for themselves from time to time......it happens to the best of us......if this were a liberal democrat candidate and the kid would have had an abortion, she would have been placed on a pedestal for doing the "right thing"
     
    Sarah Palins kids have nothing to do with her abilities as a VP other than teaching her patience and responsibility (you learn that from your kids!)   
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 03, 2008....
    Dfer: An 'if' or 'it happens to the best of us' does not apply here. You well know that. She wants to be VP so lets stick to what did happen. She seems to be no more than an overly ambitious politician willing to do anything to get elected.

    A attractive woman that gives you a boner. Kelly is right she is a real narcissist.

    I watch the debate. Some observations.

    The 'Darn right we need [whatever]' with than catty look is used again and again. A use of her sexy ditz appeal to gloss over the fact she is blowing smoke. She lied right out of the gate about the Obama tax vote and used the 'Darn right...' boner ditz to good effect. '94 times...' lol.

    The McCain campaign and Pailn claim that Obama has voted 94 times “for higher taxes.” Hum:
    • Twenty-three were for measures that would have produced no tax increase at all; they were against proposed tax cuts.

    • Seven of the votes were in favor of measures that would have lowered taxes for many, while raising them on a relative few, either corporations or affluent individuals.

    • Eleven votes the GOP is counting would have increased taxes on those making more than $1 million a year – in order to fund programs such as Head Start and school nutrition programs, or veterans’ health care.
    • The GOP sometimes counted two, three and even four votes on the same measure. We found their tally included a total of 17 votes on seven measures, effectively padding their total by 10.

    • The majority of the 94 votes – 53 of them, including some mentioned above – were on budget measures, not tax bills, and would not have resulted in any tax change. Four other votes were non-binding motions related to conference report negotiations.
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 03, 2008....

    Bad Shelter.  You should have learned from last nights debate.  Facts have no effect on Republicans.  The debate last night started off bad but about halfway through three things happened.   Palin stopped answering questions. Biden started using facts to bludgeon her around and that worthless moderator stopped even pretending to do her job.

    On that last note I'm really sorry about all that pre-spin you guys wasted on how the moderator would pick on Palin which clearly didn't happen by any measure of the sane imagination.  Sarah did vastly out perform expectations though.

  • sheltercrow said on Oct 03, 2008....
    The cute dumb accent 'as needed' and the cheerleader twitter. All, more or less, of the 'beauty contest' act she does so well. All fake of course.

    That is all there is to this 'debate' subject. She is a walking talking c***-ring.
  • D6fer said on Oct 03, 2008....
    shelter.....the "voted for" "didn't vote for" bullshit is just that....bullshit.....and there is plenty to go around ......you and I both know that politicians often reject a measure because of something added to it to appease those opposed to it, or to create future election fodder....it works both ways.


  • ALIENated said on Oct 04, 2008....
    
    Yes, Obama is likely to lower taxes and McCain is likely to raise taxes. We
    all believe that. Character assassination is about all the liberals have left.
    Pathetic, is it not. I loved junior high. I am so glad that half our nation is
    stuck there. I wish they would graduate and stop listening to homos like
    Andrew Sullivan. The guy obviously has an ax to grind. Homo conservative.
    I really believe that, too.
    
    
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 04, 2008....
    Dfer: Re:

    'that politicians often reject a measure because of'

    The reason the pols vote the way they do is because of their sponsorship.

    Instead of bailing out the real people of our republic the pols bail out the juristic artificial people. Instead of looking at the afflictions of the 'natural person' we now direct our attention to the afflictions of the 'artificial juristic person.'

    In jurisprudence, a natural person is a human being perceptible through the senses and subject to physical laws, as opposed to an artificial, legal or juristic person, i.e., an organization that the law treats for some purposes as if it were a person distinct from its members or owner.

    The 'corporate establishment' have so throughly infiltrated the 'structures of democracy' that 'democratic ideology' has been replaced with 'market ideology' when describing us as a nation. Corporatism has become synonymous with democracy and 'the language of the marketplace has become the language of our democracy.'

    As a consequence of the adoption of market thinking, economic outcomes have become the measures of success or failure. Personal greed and personal advancement have replaced social conscience and responsibility to others as motivating forces. Incentives and disincentives have replaced values, cognition, responsibility and reflection as the driving forces in our lives - a perverse and extreme behaviorism. We have become blind to alternate points of view. Any challenge to economic ideology is labeled as left wing or socialist which puts it beyond the pale.

    Our difference is that I start with the natural person and you start with artificial person. Its disturbing that it has come down to this.

  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 04, 2008....

    Well part of the reason is that the "artifical" person is more important.  He effects more lives, feeds more children, builds more schools. 

  • sheltercrow said on Oct 04, 2008....
    'feeds more children, builds more schools.'

    Your making a joke. Yes?
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 04, 2008....
    More making a fact.  You are aware of how the tax burden in this country is spread out right?  That after all the loopholes, all the evasion, all the bullshit that America BASICALLY free loads off the top ten percent.
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 04, 2008....
    'free loads off the top ten percent'

    I think you will find that argument impossible to defend. I welcome your attempt. In the mean time a little ditty.

    Legal Scholar and Professor of Law at the University of British Columbia Joel Bakan describes the modern corporate entity as 'an institutional psychopath' and a 'psychopathic creature.' In the documentary The Corporation, Bakan claims that corporations, when considered as natural living persons, exhibit the traits of antisocial personality disorder or psychopathy. Also in the film, Robert Monks, a former Republican Party candidate for Senate from Maine, says:

        "The corporation is an externalizing machine (moving its operating costs to external organizations and people), in the same way that a shark is a killing machine."
  • ALIENated said on Oct 04, 2008....
    
    Legal Scholar and Professor of Law <= or => flaming liberal.
    
    Wonder if he ever worked a day of his life. Or worked in a corporation. One
    of those places that provide work for most everyone that works.
    
    You are right, Sean. As I understand it, only half of the population pays
    taxes at all.
    
    A bumper sticker I saw the other day:
    
        Damn right I am a Republican. We can't all be on welfare.
    
    Made me lol.
    
    
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 04, 2008....
    Well Alien how nice to see you again. Have you taken into consideration state and local taxes? An average of 6.8 percent of income?

    Have you taken into consideration who benefits most from the public services of a community?

    I personally have known only one republican and both he and his daughter were secret welfare cheats. As you can imagine we argued quite often. You remind me of him you know.
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 04, 2008....
    Hum... When one pays rent (currently $850/month) one pays part of all the taxes of the landlord on the property . I pay taxes on meals eaten away from home, on my electricity bill, on my ISP bill, food at the grocery store. Thats all before I get the pay check.

    So tell me how I 'freeload' off the upper 10 percent?
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 04, 2008....

    Who cares who benefits from the public services?  What bearing does that have on anything?

    The top 10% pay 50% of income tax in this country.  The top 50% pay 90% of the taxes.  Literally half of this nation just feeds at the tit of of these "imaginary people" And then we turn around and have the nerve to be ungrateful (not that we should actually be gratful since it's not like they are doing it either A) out of good will of B) of their own freewill. 

  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 04, 2008....

    Who cares who benefits from the public services?  What bearing does that have on anything?

    The top 10% pay 50% of income tax in this country.  The top 50% pay 90% of the taxes.  Literally half of this nation just feeds at the tit of of these "imaginary people" And then we turn around and have the nerve to be ungrateful (not that we should actually be gratful since it's not like they are doing it either A) out of good will of B) of their own freewill.  

  • sheltercrow said on Oct 04, 2008....
    For all these taxes that the rich pay, what real benefit do I get from their contributions? In what way do I personally freeload off them? Give me a concrete example.
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 04, 2008....

    Freeways.  The police department.  The Fire Department.  Trash collection.  School (unless you went to private school or home school)

    I'd mention the military but I have a feeling you would say if we had no military you wouldn't notice because America is the only nation to ever attack another nation and without a miliary we'd be just fine.  But yeah military should be on that list.

  • GnawingDog said on Oct 04, 2008....
    Highways are gas taxes. Police, fire and school are property taxes. Trash is private.

    The latest military excursion has cost us dearly in gas prices to no other effect.
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 04, 2008....
    You're wrong (and you know it) but since you know where and how our tax dollars are spent where does our money go to? 
  • GnawingDog said on Oct 04, 2008....
    In what way am I wrong?
  • GnawingDog said on Oct 04, 2008....
    As an aside every tax a business pays is passed on to its customers. It couldn't be otherwise and the business still make a profit. The same effect is seen in all services not public. Every financial burden placed on your landlord for his property is passed on to you as part of your rent. It couldn't be otherwise.
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 04, 2008....
    Theory of wages... all the benefits and earnings a worker receives are provided to him by his employer. Simple. All the costs to the employer of the benefits and earnings of their employees are passed on to the consumer of the employers products and services. Simple. The taxes that the employee has to pay are derived from his employment benefits and earnings. Simple.

    All the employee taxes, which are ultimately nothing more than employer costs, are passed on to the consumer of the employers products and services. Simple.
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 05, 2008....

    Okay I grant you that, but that in no way says a think about where the money is spent in the end.

    I could point to example after example of gas taxes going here or there.  We might claim that tax A goes to fund project b but really all the money gets throw into one account and it is then doled out as necessary.

    You're completely right about every tax a bussiness pays is passed on to its customers.  So with that knowledge why would you be against the Bush tax breaks?  You're employer's costs are cut and the product lowers in price and you can int

  • sheltercrow said on Oct 05, 2008....
    'free loads off the top ten percent' was the original assertion not 'where the money is spent in the end.'

    Aside from being the source of government revenue, each tax, [whether intended or not, ultimately serves as a source] of social engineering, causing people to [modify] their behavior [in varying degrees] to avoid paying.

    To a large degree I do not consider the taxes that are extracted as spent well for the simple reason that they are spent for purposes for which no adequate or honest explanation has been given. Nothing new since all tax revenue spending tends to promote corruption in those that manage their appropriation.

    State and local taxes are spent in the state and local communities and can be monitored to a certain degree. Town councils and other such local assemblies are accessible for complaints and compliance.

    The true corruption in government comes at the federal level. Other than for programs for the overall social good like social security and similar programs federal taxes are ill spent and a form of theft.

    The 'bush tax breaks' are a red herring in that they are not 'tax breaks' but the transfer of some of the 'theft' from the upper classes to the rest of the citizenry.
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 05, 2008....
    'You're employer's costs are cut and the product lowers in price'

    There is not a lot of correlation to 'business taxes' and 'product and service prices.'

    Business taxes are levied for various reasons and a major reason involves 'externality' costs that are involuntarily borne by a citizenry without their consent.

    In economics, an externality is an impact on any party not directly involved in an economic decision. An externality occurs when an economic activity causes external costs or external benefits to third party stakeholders who cannot directly affect an economic transaction. In other words, the producers and consumers in a market either do not bear all of the costs or do not reap all of the benefits of the economic activity. For example, manufacturing that causes air pollution imposes costs on others, while planting forests (rather than other agricultural activities) would improve the water quality of those downstream.

    For obvious reasons these taxes are vigorously resisted by the affected businesses. Externalities cost to the citizenry are enormous and are almost always never successfully assessed on the businesses that caused the injury.
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 05, 2008....
    More on Palin/Biden. Why? Because it is merely interesting. This is just a bit of the article... The VP Debate: Dishonest Foreign Policies by Stephen Zunes

    Distorting Iran

    PALIN: Israel is in jeopardy of course when we're dealing with Ahmadinejad as a leader of Iran. Iran claiming that Israel...should be wiped off the face of the earth. Now a leader like Ahmadinejad who is not sane or stable when he says things like that is not one whom we can allow to acquire nuclear energy, nuclear weapons. Ahmadinejad...seek[s] to acquire nuclear weapons and wipe off the face of the earth an ally like we have in Israel.

    Ahmadinejad never said that "Israel should be wiped off the face of the Earth." That idiom doesn't even exist in the Persian language. The Iranian president was quoting the late Ayatollah Khomeini from more than 20 years earlier when, in a statement largely ignored at the time, he said that "the regime occupying Jerusalem should vanish from the pages of time." While certainly an extreme and deplorable statement, the actual quote's emphasis on the Israeli "regime" rather than the country itself and its use of an intransitive verb makes the statement far less threatening than Palin was trying to make it sound. As recently as the week before the debate, Ahmadinejad once again clarified that the statement was analogous to the way that the Soviet Union is today no longer on the map, emphasizing his desire for Israel's dissolution as a state, not the country's physical destruction. Biden inexplicably refused to challenge this apparently deliberate effort by Palin to make American viewers believe Iran is a greater and more imminent threat than it actually is.

    Palin's argument that nuclear energy is something the United States cannot "allow [Iran] to acquire" was rather bizarre since Iran has had nuclear power since the 1950s, as a result of a program initiated by the United States. The United States continued to be the primary supporter for Iran's nuclear program through the 1970s.

    Finally, as Biden observed, Ahmadinejad doesn't control Iran's security apparatus. Unlike in the United States, the Iranian president isn't the commander-in-chief of the armed forces. Such responsibilities lie with the Supreme Leader, currently Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Indeed, the Iranian presidency is relatively weak compared with other centers of power in that regime.
  • ALIENated said on Oct 05, 2008....
    
    Back that truck up and dump another load of crap. Are you using
    copy / paste or cntl+C / cntl+V? Inquiring nutzoids want to know.
    
    
  • bloc said on Oct 06, 2008....
    @alien
    Why did palin leave you guys hanging on abortion and same sex marriage?
  • ALIENated said on Oct 06, 2008....
    
    How so? If she was questioned about that during the debate, I did not hear
    the whole debate. It was probably a casting your pearls before swine deal.
    I heard Bob Scheiffer talking about asking about gay rights in the 2004
    debates. I just kept thinking, why on earth is a question about legalized 
    perversion a question for a presidental debate. I think he should ask where 
    they stand on pediphylia, too. Or letting an aborted baby die that was
    born alive. Or what lengths would they go to, to stop another 9/11. You
    know, just get down and wallow in the mud.
    
    
  • ALIENated said on Oct 06, 2008....
    
    And, by the way, if Palin is a fucking joke, Obama is an even bigger fucking
    joke. You have to admit that being as honest as you are about everything.
    
    
  • bloc said on Oct 06, 2008....
    she did not say that she would outlaw abortion and she tried to appear tolerant of gay marriage. Said that she's against using the term marriage, but not for preventing gay people from having the same rights as everyone else.

    regarding obama, he is not a joke. He's extremely smart and has been proven right in time. He warned about the current financial crisis years ago, said we should do what we are now doing in afghanistan, and rightly says that we should focus our military efforts on the terrorists that attacked us and not in Iraq. That's wisdom
  • D6fer said on Oct 06, 2008....
    bloc....Palin and Biden gave essentially the same answer on gays.

    McCain warned about the problem 2 years ago.....does that make him wiser?

    Iraq is what it is.....doesn't matter why it started....only matters now how it ends.....under Obama it could end prematurely, creating a bigger problem down the road....McCain will end it correctly.

    Obama is nothing but an armchair quarterback with no skills.

    oh! and he is big into abstinence!    check it out!
  • bloc said on Oct 06, 2008....
    @d6
    I agree with you about biden, but that answer is very close to what "liberals" want which is why I asked about Palin specifically.

    Show me where McCain warned about it.

    I think you missed my point about Iraq as well. Whenever you make a decision about something like this you have to weigh the cost against the reward. Frankly, it's terrifying that republicans don't care at all about the cost. Remember how the Soviets bankrupted themselves with protracted occupations? We don't want to do that to ourselves do we?


  • D6fer said on Oct 06, 2008....
    bloc.....the soviets didnt have the economic potential of the U.S. there was no way their economy could absorb it.....ours can and has.....I would rather it not last much longer, but I understand that we have much to lose by ending it prematurely, specifically our word as a nation....we made a commitment to the Iraqi people, and we need to honor it.

    I will look for the McCain link.
  • D6fer said on Oct 06, 2008....

    McCain Warned of Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac Crisis Three Years Ago; Dems Stopped Reform Bill

    From The Corner:

    John McCain. 25 May 2005, speaking to the Senate:

    Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae’s regulator reported that the company’s quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were “illusions deliberately and systematically created” by the company’s senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal.

    The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight’s report goes on to say that Fannie Mae employees deliberately and intentionally manipulated financial reports to hit earnings targets in order to trigger bonuses for senior executives. In the case of Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae’s former chief executive officer, OFHEO’s report shows that over half of Mr. Raines’ compensation for the 6 years through 2003 was directly tied to meeting earnings targets. The report of financial misconduct at Fannie Mae echoes the deeply troubling $5 billion profit restatement at Freddie Mac.

    The OFHEO report also states that Fannie Mae used its political power to lobby Congress in an effort to interfere with the regulator’s examination of the company’s accounting problems. This report comes some weeks after Freddie Mac paid a record $3.8 million fine in a settlement with the Federal Election Commission and restated lobbying disclosure reports from 2004 to 2005. These are entities that have demonstrated over and over again that they are deeply in need of reform.

    For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac–known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs–and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO’s report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO’s report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.

    I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.

    I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation.

    The legislation was blocked by Democrats, with the assistance of a few Republicans.

  • bloc said on Oct 06, 2008....
    again, fannie and freddie did NOT give out sub prime loans. They did not cause this problem. I agree with you about the problems in fannie and freddie, it was a bad situation, but it is not what caused this crisis.

    regarding Iraq, i'm still frightened that republicans think we can spend trillions and trillions with no consideration ever given to the cost of staying in Iraq. Not just the real costs, but the opportunity costs.


  • D6fer said on Oct 06, 2008....
    yeah, but they created the opportunity by buying up those bad debts.

    If it weren't for the pc liberal bullshit and threats of war crimes trials, etc.....the war would have already been over.....the left in this country has neutered our military.

    Iraq should be paying for the costs of the war with oil.
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 06, 2008....
    May I'm not up and up how things work but I don't think that it's traditional to break into a man's house (even if he's beating his children and raping his wife) kick his ass, and then charge his wife and kids for pizza.  You either did the right thing because it was the right thing or. . .why did you do it?
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 06, 2008....
    *I doubt the Dems would be nearly as rushed to leave if Iraq was PAYING us to be there.  Not just footing the bill but actually paying us, adding money to our economy.
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 07, 2008....
    In 2005, the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act, sponsored by Senator Chuck Hagel (R-NE) and co-sponsored by Senators Elizabeth Dole (R-NC), John McCain (R-AZ) and John Sununu (R-NH), would have increased government oversight of loans given by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

    The two GSEs [Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac] have outstanding more than US$ 5 trillion in mortgage backed securities (MBS) and debt; the debt portion alone is $1.6 trillion.

    Mortgage backed securities (MBS) are not loans. And 'accounting problems' and 'bonuses for senior executives' were the focus of the 'Reform Act' not the 'Mortgage backed securities (MBS)' that caused the bailout.
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 07, 2008....
    Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac ...created, and remain highly involved in, the secondary market for mortgage-backed securities. They now own or guarantee about $1.4 trillion, or 40%, of all U.S. mortgages, with $168 billion in subprime mortgages.

    The subprime mortgage crisis started because unscrupulous banks and mortgage companies packaged risky loans and resold them on the secondary market where Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, among others, bought them and issued mortgage-backed securities on the pools of risky loans. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were unaware of the hidden risk till it was too late. The folks who sold them the risky mortgages passed them off a AAA. Its called fraud in the real world but in the banking world its just business as usual.

    This is an excellent NPR show on the global credit crisis
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 08, 2008....
    Excerpts from Palin: Another Sociopath

    Posted by Jill Hussein C., Brilliant at Breakfast on October 5, 2008.

    Philip Munger at Progressive Alaska recounts a conversation he had with Palin in 1977:

    In June 1997, both Palin and I had responsibilities at the graduation ceremony of a small group of Wasilla area home schoolers. I directed the Mat-Su College Community Band, which played music, and she gave the commencement address. It was held at her church, the Wasilla Assembly of God.

    Palin had recently become Wasilla mayor, beating her earliest mentor, John Stein, the then-incumbent mayor. A large part of her campaign had been to enlist fundamentalist Christian groups, and invoke evangelical buzzwords into her talks and literature.

    As the ceremony concluded, I bumped into her in a hall away from other people. I congratulated her on her victory, and took her aside to ask about her faith. Among other things, she declared that she was a young earth creationist, accepting both that the world was about 6,000-plus years old, and that humans and dinosaurs walked the earth at the same time.

    I asked how she felt about the second coming and the end times. She responded that she fully believed that the signs of Jesus returning soon "during MY lifetime," were obvious. "I can see that, maybe you can't - but it guides me every day."

    Our next discussion about religion was after she had switched to the less strict Wasilla Bible Church. She was speaking at, I was performing bugle, at a Veterans ceremony between Wasilla and Palmer. At this time, people were beginning to encourage her to run for Governor.

    Once again, we found ourselves being able to talk privately. I reminded her of the earlier conversation, asking her if her views had changed. She was no longer "necessarily" a young earth creationist, she told me. But she strongly reiterated her belief that "The Lord is coming soon." I was trying to get her to tell me what she felt the signs were, when she had to move on.

    Think of the cold, dead look in Sarah Palin's eyes. Think of her bizarre non-response to Joe Biden's tragedy. Now watch about 4:15 into this video:

    ...when Palin says about Biden's current wife, "I know you're passionate about education, with your wife being a teacher for thirty years, and God bless her, her reward is in heaven, right?"

    Go back and watch this video again. Then think about how a mother of four never once on the stump talks about her children's future.
  • D6fer said on Oct 08, 2008....
    oh my god shelter! you are so right......that is much worse than Obamas connection to Ayers and ACORN!......NOT!
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 08, 2008....

    I'll grant you ACORN.  OBama doesn't have a tangible connection to Ayers to comment on.

  • bloc said on Oct 08, 2008....
    "If it weren't for the pc liberal bullshit and threats of war crimes trials, etc.....the war would have already been over.....the left in this country has neutered our military. "

    What does this mean. People say it, but it doesn't really mean anything. Can someone explain to me how the war would be different?

    The ayers thing is stupid and anyone that brings it up is a dumbass. One of McCains top staff is also connected to Ayers. Palin's husband is part of a group that wants Alaska to break off from America. Why don't we believe that Palin is a radical person that wants war with america to free alaska from it's "oppression" or that McCain is a friend of terrorists?
  • D6fer said on Oct 08, 2008....
    The records of the administration of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge (CAC) released last week by the University of Illinois show that the Ayers-Obama connection was, in fact, an intimate collaboration and that it led to the only executive or administrative experience in Obama's life.

    After Walter Annenberg's foundation offered several hundred million dollars to American public schools in the mid-'90s, William Ayers applied for $50 million for Chicago. The purpose of his application was to secure funds to "raise political consciousness" in Chicago's public schools.

    After he won the grant, Ayers' group chose Barack Obama to distribute the money. Between 1995 and 1999, Obama distributed the $50 million and raised another $60 million from other civic groups to augment it. In doing so, he was following Ayers' admonition to grant the funds to "external" organizations, like American Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), to pair with schools and conduct programs to radicalize the students and politicize them.

    source

    I guess this makes me a dumbass?
  • D6fer said on Oct 08, 2008....
    The liberal leadership in this country tried to lose the Iraq war.....they politisized it.....liberalism has changed the way we engage in war since VietNam ......rules of engagement designed by lawyers to hamstring our soldiers....threat of war crimes....it's complete bullshit.
  • bloc said on Oct 08, 2008....
    it does. Notice that Annenberg name associated with Ayers? Do a search for Annenberg McCain campaign ;)

    Of course, we now must conclude that McCain is a friend of terrorist supports and that Palin wants alaska to wage war against america. 


  • D6fer said on Oct 08, 2008....
    maybe you should read up on Walter Annenberg before you try to associate him in that way.....looks like to me that The Annenberg Challenge was a tool meant for good that was abused by people like Ayers and Obama to promote socialism

    here is a link to an article about ayers visiting with his old buddy Hugo Chavez.....I wonder if Obama will invite him to spend the night in the Lincoln bedroom?
  • bloc said on Oct 08, 2008....
    palin wants to wage war against america so that alaska can become it's own country. Why don't you be honest about this?
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 08, 2008....
    Obamas connection to Ayers and ACORN!

    I assume you mention this because you are a right winger and read only the brain dead news so...

    Media figures falsely accuse Democrats of attempting to direct millions of dollars to ACORN

    Summary: Media figures have recently accused Democrats of attempting to direct millions of dollars in government money to the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) in the financial bailout bill. The accusation is false. Neither the draft proposal nor the version of the bill that was voted down in the House contained any language mentioning ACORN. Those making the false claim were misrepresenting a provision -- since removed -- that would have directed 20 percent of any profits realized on troubled assets purchased under the plan into the Housing Trust Fund* and the Capital Magnet Fund.

    Brenda Muniz, the organization’s legislative director, told Salon that Graham’s claim is “just ludicrous.” ACORN itself claims to take no money at all from the government. ACORN Housing, an affiliated but ostensibly autonomous nonprofit that provides free housing counseling, is considering applying for funds from the Housing Trust Fund, but will probably not choose to do so. “It’s unlikely that we stand to get anything,” Muniz said. Because ACORN Housing’s primary area of expertise is housing counseling — which is not what the Trust Fund’s grants are for — Muniz said that it’s “unlikely that they would take on something like that.”

    The Ayers thing is simply false.
  • D6fer said on Oct 08, 2008....
    why dont you bloc?
  • D6fer said on Oct 08, 2008....
    shelter.....you provided nothing that disproves the ayers connection......Obama launched his political career from ayers house.
  • D6fer said on Oct 08, 2008....
    this is from the Alaskan Independence Party website:

    The Alaskan Independence Party's goal is the vote we were entitled to in 1958, one choice from among the following four alternatives:
    1) Remain a Territory.
    2) Become a separate and Independent Nation.
    3) Accept Commonwealth status.
    4) Become a State.
    The call for this vote is in furtherance of the dream of the Alaskan Independence Party's founding father, Joe Vogler, which was for Alaskans to achieve independence under a minimal government, fully responsive to the people, promoting a peaceful and lawful means of resolving differences.

    It says nothing about a war.....you are stretching things a bit there bloc.
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 08, 2008....
    "And the guy who got him his only administrative job...is Ayers" is the pertinent assertion and hardly relevant if it were true.

    A question dfer. Do you actually know the Bill Ayers story?

    The Truth about Barack Obama and William Ayers

    ...trying to connect Barack to William Ayers using age-old guilt by association techniques. Here’s the truth: the smear associating Barack to Ayers is “phony,” “tenuous,” – even “exaggerated at best if not outright false.”

    William Ayers is a professor of education at the University of Illinois at Chicago, with whom Barack served on the board of an education-reform organization in the mid-1990’s. According to the Associated Press, they are not close: “No evidence shows they were “pals” or even close when they worked on community boards years ago …”

    ...the McCain campaign are trying to connect Obama to acts Ayers committed 40 years ago – when Barack was just eight years old. Here’s what the New York Times reported on the connection:

    But the two men do not appear to have been close. Nor has Mr. Obama ever expressed sympathy for the radical views and actions of Mr. Ayers, whom he has called “somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was 8.”

    Barack has publicly denounced Ayers’ radical actions from the 1960’s:

    Senator Obama strongly condemns the violent actions of the Weathermen group, as he does all acts of violence. But he was an eight-year-old child when Ayers and the Weathermen were active, and any attempt to connect Obama with events of almost forty years ago is ridiculous.


  • sheltercrow said on Oct 08, 2008....
    Here is something interesting... lol...

    Reagan and Jane Wyman were approached by FBI agents as early as September 1941 about his membership in controversial organizations--and that he agreed, as a result of those meetings, to act as an informant for the FBI.

    Records obtained through the Freedom of Information Act... make clear that Reagan and Wyman met with FBI agents ... Reagan claimed that three men appeared unannounced at his home one evening and identified themselves as FBI agents. One asked, 'We thought someone the Communists hated as much as they hate you might be willing to help us?' He [Reagan] protested that he didn't go in for red-baiting.' They then rattled off a list of names, dates, places and conversations that he had been privy to and others that, as he said, 'opened my eyes to a good many things.'

  • D6fer said on Oct 08, 2008....
    of course he denounced them.....I implied he was crooked, not stupid......Obama has to distance himself from Ayers, just as he had to distance himself from his reverend of 20 years Jeramiah Wright.

    To say that Obama has not been influenced by Ayers is a joke......they sat on the same board of directors.....Ayers has some pretty strong opinions on education....some of which he shared with Hugo Chavez just 2 years ago.....there are money ties as well.......this is indefensible.
  • D6fer said on Oct 08, 2008....
    I don't get the point of the Reagan thing.......I have had a long day....maybe I'm too tired.......he turned in commies like Sean Penns dad.....what's wrong with that?
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 08, 2008....
    Because the truth is much better than the fairy tales the right wing could ever devise.

    In 1958, he sought to play the part of Special Agent George Crandall in a movie to be called "The FBI Story." So eager was he to play the valiant agent killed in the line of duty that he offered to take half of his normal $75,000 fee.

    But the Los Angeles FBI chief checked the bureau's files and found that Reagan had been "associated with certain Communist front organizations" in the mid-1940s, before he "suddenly saw the light."

    The FBI was wary of giving the bureau's imprimatur to the ex-liberal. "Sounds as though Reagan would consider this another stamp to block out the past," the agent wrote. "If it reaches an issue I am just going to say 'No.' "

  • D6fer said on Oct 08, 2008....
    lol.......I'll let the Reagan legacy speak for itself.....you are a joke!
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 08, 2008....
    Dfer, dfer, dfer... the record is clear that Reagan was a criminal from way back.

    When President Ronald Reagan said that he had forgotten important details about the Iran-contra affair, there was ample precedent for his inability to recall key events.  On February 5, 1962--the day before his 51st birthday--he appeared as a witness before a federal grand jury in Los Angeles.

    "I don't want to appear as though I am trying deliberately to be vague," Reagan said, responding to questions about some of the most important events of his term as president of the Screen Actors Guild.  "But, as I say, I would like you to realize in my history of holding an office with the guild, my memory is like a kaleidoscope of meetings, that I am sure if I sat down with someone and started in, I could then recall the details .... "

    The grand jury was investigating possible criminal misconduct as a part of an antitrust probe and never charged Reagan with any crimes--even though prosecutors seriously considered doing so.  But the testimony gives a fascinating look at Ronald Reagan under an investigator's sharp questioning.

    Reagan had been the president of the guild in 1952, when it was against contractual agreements with the guild for talent agencies to produce television shows. According to guild documents, he supported an exclusive waiver for MCA, the talent agency which represented him. The waiver was granted in 1952 and renewed in 1954.

    Guild by-laws prohibited agencies from employing their own clients in such productions. After that restriction was waived by a unanimous vote of the SAG board, Reagan benefited financially and professionally. MCA arranged appearances in Las Vegas and a job as host of The General Electric Theater, MCA's flagship program. This relationship led to investigation by the FBI and the Justice Department's antitrust division. Reagan's personal agent, who had negotiated a seven-year, million-dollar contract with Warner Brothers for actor Reagan in 1942, was Lew Wasserman, who in 1962 was president of MCA. Today Wasserman is chairman of MCA's board.
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 08, 2008....
    Reagan, SAG and the MCA

    MCA was so powerful that it represented almost all the big stars of Hollywood and produced more television shows than any other entity -- until the Justice Department put an end to it, due to conflict of interest as it related to MCA's agency side, and antitrust violations

    Wasserman wanter to use a division of MCA, Revue Productions, as a vehicle to make television shows.

    That... was Wasserman's plan. But there was a hitch: Screen Actors Guild rules forbade the agencies from going into production, and that included MCA.

    ...but Wasserman, probably the shrewdest tycoon in Hollywood's history, had an ace in the hole: his client, and then-SAG president, Ronald Reagan.

    Reagan's role in persuading SAG to grant MCA a waiver has been much debated. For Dennis McDougal, the author of "The Last Mogul: Lew Wasserman, MCA, and the Hidden History of Hollywood," it is clear: "We can pretty much draw the line from point A to point B and conclude that the then-president of the Screen Actors Guild, one Ronald Reagan, who also had an agent at MCA, one Lew Wasserman, sat down with the guild's lawyer and concocted this scheme, which was (almost) unprecedented."

    With the waiver MCA -- through Revue -- became the single biggest producer of television programming throughout the 1950s. Its power was unrivaled, its clout inescapable.

    "If you wanted to work in television, you had to make a deal with MCA," McDougal notes. "MCA had also perfected the packaging fee; so in addition to clipping everything and everybody for 10% of whatever they earned, (they could) tack on another 10% for packaging fees."

    But the Justice Department "was zeroing in," McDougal adds. "There was even some talk that there might be a criminal complaint; civil would be bad enough, but to have both Wasserman and Stein charged with criminal conspiracy would have been unacceptable."

    The Justice Department suit came on top of a stunner, revealed in 'The Reporter' on Sept. 8, 1961: "SAG ends waivers to agencies," the headline read, adding: "Present permits expire Dec. 31 with six-month extension for transition."
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 09, 2008....
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/09/opinion/09collins.html?emc=tnt&tntemail0=y

    In my experience, most State Senate hopefuls are so thrilled at any sign of interest that they would happily attend a reception given by a homeless couple in their cardboard box. But even though Obama was 8 years old at the time the Weathermen were in the news, that house party puts all their misdeeds on his platter. Sarah Palin has been telling her increasingly scary rallies that he is somebody “who sees America as imperfect enough to pal around with terrorists.”

    Fox News, in a one-hour special on Obama’s associates hosted by Sean Hannity, came up with an “Internet journalist” named Andy Martin who has spent his life running bizarre political campaigns with occasional detours into the clink and filing lawsuits laced with paranoia and anti-Semitism. Based on this expertise, Martin deduced that Ayers was the puppet master of Obama’s rise in politics and that Obama’s community-organizer gig was actually training for “a radical overthrow of the government.”

    lol. dfer, dfer, dfer.
  • GnawingDog said on Oct 09, 2008....
    "[J]ournalist" Sean Hannity gives bogus defense for interviewing Andy Martin

    http://mediamatters.org/items/200810080029

    On the October 7 edition of Fox News' Hannity & Colmes, co-host Sean Hannity defended his October 5 interview with Andy Martin -- who has called a judge a "crooked, slimy Jew" and accused African-American public officials of corruption -- by saying: "I'm a journalist who interviews people who I disagree with all the time, that give their opinion. Fox has all points of view." However, during the October 5 segment, which aired on Fox News' Hannity's
    America
    , Hannity did not challenge any assertion or statement by Martin, nor did he mention any of Martin's anti-Semitic and racially charged statements.

    [...]


  • bloc said on Oct 09, 2008....
    @d6

    I'm not stretching anything. Wanting to break away from america is treason is it not?
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 09, 2008....
    The 'you betcha’' and 'pit bull with lipstick'

    Perhaps the "you betcha’" and "pit bull with lipstick" folksiness veneer makes it hard to accept that Palin is part of a rebel cult aimed at taking control of the U.S. government in the name of advancing Armageddon. It is kind of hard to think of the VP candidate that Republicans touted at the GOP convention with buttons as "The Hottest VP from the Coolest State" as a Manchurian candidate, but who are you going to believe, Palin or the evidence?

    If you think BuzzFlash is going off the deep end of conspiracy theories, then watch this smoking gun video.  It was put together by the diligent people at talk2action.org who expose the extremist, anti-democracy, anti-Constitutional tyrannical theocracy of the religious far right.

    In the video, you will hear about how Palin was recruited at the age of 24 to be a political "warrior" to gain governmental power to assert an authoritarian end-times theocratic state that would rid the land of "non-believers." The credibility of the tape comes from its narrator, Mary Glazier, who is a key sponsor and mentor to Palin, as the Governor has been groomed to seize power as part of a plan of "spiritual warfare." Glazier details the recruitment of Palin in chilling terms and makes pronouncements, such as "There is a tipping point, at which time, because of the sin of the land, the people then have to be displaced."

    Again, don’t dismiss this as some sort of loony theory, listen and watch the tape. And you might also read some of the great research on Palin’s religious background and beliefs at Talk2Action.org.

    We’ve also posted several alarming articles on BuzzFlash, including: "The Irony of Sarah Palin: Her ‘Third Wave’ Radical Christian Theology"; "By Any Measure, Sarah Palin is a Radical Political and Religious Extremist"; and a must-read interview with Bruce Wilson of Talk2Action.com, "Sarah Palin's Extremist Religious Beliefs: The Republic is At Risk."
  • D6fer said on Oct 09, 2008....
    bloc......I don't think it is.......that is how this country was formed to begin with.
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 09, 2008....

    Ok D6, I have a great deal of respect for you.  Rescind  that last statment cus it's ignorant beyond anything you should be capable of.

  • D6fer said on Oct 09, 2008....
    what? A state could not vote to break away?......honestly....I have to claim ignorance here.......someone give me a link.

    But this is just a distraction.......Obamas hands are so dirty in so many ways that it's scary.
  • bloc said on Oct 09, 2008....
    Yes, wanting to revolt against our government is treason is it not? 

    Here is a quote from the founder of the party, a party whose meetings Palin has attended as recently as this year! Why does Palin hate america?

    "I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions." 

    "[T]he fires of Hell are glaciers compared to my hate for the American government.""
  • D6fer said on Oct 09, 2008....
    I don't know.....you would have to show me something .....I think there is a legal way by vote.....I could be wrong.....I don't know
  • D6fer said on Oct 09, 2008....
    besides.....you will have a hard time convincing most people that this is worse than Obamas alliance with Ayers
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 09, 2008....

    The part where you don't think wanting to break away from the nation isn't treason.  Make no mistake.  The Founding Fathers were a bunch of treasonous terrorists.  So much so that England put boots on the ground and you know declared a war.  Remember that part?

    Don't get me wrong.  I glad they did it, they did it for all the right reasons, they deserve all the praise they get.  But you know the Boston Tea Party was not in fact a party.

  • D6fer said on Oct 09, 2008....
    yeah thanks for the history lesson.....now show me something that says that what the A.I.P. has done is treason.
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 09, 2008....

    Wanting to break away is in and of itself treasonous.  This nation is built on the idea of being UNITED states.  Now we haven't proven that these people are willing to use force which is what I think you're waitig for and I doubt we'll find anything like that.

    Besides the bottom line is that this is America and until you actually hurt somebody we basically  believe in your right to be treasonous.  Sorry, to peacably gather and petition the government.  It's just that I have a hard time with somebody marching out the "I love America" tune while simotaneously sleeping with somebody who wants to break away. 

    Not that I really give a shit because I think there are enough legit issues with Palin that there is no reason to start picking at her associations no matter how questionable.

  • D6fer said on Oct 09, 2008....
    I remember a few years back....the representatives from eastern washington proposed dividing the state along the cascade mountains and making a new state "Lincoln" to separate from the domination of western washington over political decisions.....it was completely symbolic......I bet many Alaskans feel the same way about the A.I.P.
    I can understand their frustration.....here they are, sitting on enough oil to at least offset a good portion of oil imports.....increase the value of their economy....and the nations.....and the government has put a lid on it for no good reason.
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 09, 2008....

    I can understand their frustration too.  It's patently absurd that people who have nothing to do with the issue have such a huge say in it. 

    I would definitely favor some kind of weighted voting when it comes to certain issues.  Like California, Texas, Florida, Arizona and maybe Nevada should get double or triple votes on things that involve say a border fense with Mexico. 

    States are supposed to be largely autonomous and I don't see where the lower 48 gets away with telling Alaska no to drilling.  At the worst they should be able to set some kind of, if we catch you hurting polar bears we'll sanction you or some other dick move.

  • bloc said on Oct 10, 2008....
    "In lawtreason is the crime that covers some of the more serious acts of disloyalty to one's sovereign or nation."

    Wanting to overthrow the US government is Alaska is clearly treason, it's clearly disloyal. 

    "Not that I really give a shit because I think there are enough legit issues with Palin that there is no reason to start picking at her associations no matter how questionable."

    This is true, but I find it effective to use neocons ideas back at them. Let me repeat the words of Palin's recent associates.

    "I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions." 

    "[T]he fires of Hell are glaciers compared to my hate for the American government.""

    This is plainly worse than Obama's associations from many years ago, hell Obama was 8 when Ayers was being a criminal. Palin attended meetings of this treasonous group as recently as this year!!! Come on D6, grow a pair and be consistent. I love how your definition of things change based on the letter beside a persons name. If there is an R they can be treasonous and it's all good. If they have a D then they should be hung for treason (you've said this before about liberals who did far lesser things than directly call for the overthrow of the US government).
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 10, 2008....

    I know and I understand and respect your tactic bloc.  I'm just saying there is a reason why I haven't been playing up you know shouts of "terrorist, kill him" being shouted at Palin's lynch mobs.  Sorry rallys. 

    I hate to say this and I didn't think it was true until this new batch started coming up. . .but we should probably keep Biden and Obama apart after November 4th.  I really don't want to see the President Pro-tempor become President.

  • bloc said on Oct 10, 2008....
    why does palin hate america?
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 10, 2008....
    Excerpt from 'Barracuda' by Noam Scheiber, The resentments of Sarah Palin.

    Palin... may be the first conservative politician since Nixon to experience resentment so authentically. For her, it's not so much a political tool as a motivating principle. A trip through Palin's past reveals that almost every step of her career can be understood as a reaction to elitist condescension--much of it in her own mind.

    Misc...

    ...how do McCain's sufferings in a tiny, squalid cell 40 years ago logically translate into presidential aptitude in the 21st century? Cast him a statue or slap his name on a ship, and let's turn the damned page.

    Excerpts from 'What If Sarah Palin Were Black….'

    The media has shown its cowardice on a number of occasions when it comes to who is covered and why. The bottom line is… we all know that if Sarah Palin were Black, the coverage would be completely different, just as it has been for Barack and Michelle Obama. It’s as if Blacks are inherently saddled with this constant doubt about their Patriotism….so the media almost felt obligated to dig under every Rock in Obama’s background to see if they could help the Swiftboaters in any way possible. It’s as though scrutinizing Barack Obama was the media’s duty…. yet the same standard just doesn’t exist when the subject of discussion isn’t Black. The same inherent duty just isn’t there. All of a sudden, grassroots bloggers have to beg the big media to do more coverage.

    [...]

    But here you have a woman connected with all sorts of characters who are out of step with the American mainstream…folks who have made extremist, anti-American comments. Yet, no scrutiny. Will Palin be branded as a Terrorist, be made into an AK-47 wielding caricature and placed on National magazine covers? Not likely… because she’s white.

    Excerpts from 'Viewers and Critics Cringe...'

    Reporter Dan Amira shows his soft side:

    Watching her has become like watching one of those hopeless singers trying out for American Idol....[A]s the talentless contestant soldiers on...it hits you that this person, despite their best efforts, doesn't even realize that they don't have what it takes. And that makes you kind of sad.

    [...]

    The opinion that resonated most with me was that of a conservative woman writing for the right-wing National Review:

    Another earnest Republican observer, Kathleen Parker, thinks that Palin has been revealed as someone "Who Is Clearly Out Of Her League." Because Palin is a woman, "we are reluctant to say what is painfully true." But it is true: "If BS were currency, Palin could bail out Wall Street herself." [Corner/National Review]


  • sheltercrow said on Oct 11, 2008....
    Dfer: 'Obamas connection to... ACORN!'

    There's only one problem with this... the RNC tried it in 2004 and not one person from ACORN was ever convicted anywhere in the United States of engaging in voter fraud, not one! (The Republicans also tried to use ACORN in the mid-term elections of 2006 to justify disenfranchising voters.)

    The RNC message points turning ACORN into sort of a community organizing version of Willie Horton (of course, it's about race) are even turning up among grossly stupid bigots attending the Palin and McCain lynch mob rallies. Just how do people who think Obama is a terrorist happen to know about a community organizing group? Because the RNC is morphing both Obama and ACORN into racist "examples" of people who are "un-American."

    Of course, the last report of voting fraud that we heard of was of Ann Coulter committing a potential felony in regards to how she cast her ballot in Florida in 2006. But you won't hear the RNC talking about that. They are too busy stepping on acorns and grinding them into the sidewalk with their boot heels.


    ACORN Response to Senator McCain's Smear Ad

    ACORN President Maude Hurd released the following statement today in response to the McCain campaign's new ad claiming that, among other things, ACORN is responsible for the mortgage crisis:

    "For almost a decade, ACORN, a community organization of 400,000 families in neighborhoods across the country, has been fighting against the predatory lending practices that have robbed our members of their homes, destabilized neighborhoods, and roiled the global economy.

    "In his newest ad, John McCain's campaign bizarrely claims, 'ACORN forced banks to issue risky home loans, the same types of loans that caused the financial crisis we're in today.' Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, ACORN has worked successfully to help working class families get good home loans on fair terms from legitimate banks and has fought vigorously against predatory lenders who have ripped off families in our communities. These predatory loans caused the crisis.

    "For more than a decade, ACORN members have held protests, released reports, and advocated for regulations to protect homeowners from predatory lenders. ACORN organizers and volunteers have been working day and night to help victims of the GOP economic meltdown to save their homes from foreclosure. In fact, ACORN has brought class action lawsuits against several predatory lenders, and has lobbied the Federal Reserve and Congress in support of regulations against predatory lending. ACORN has even been successful in convincing many lenders to treat homeowners more fairly and help families be able to make their mortgage payments and save their homes.

    "Unfortunately, the Bush administration and Congressional Republicans like John McCain have blocked the sensible regulations that ACORN and others proposed that would have averted the mortgage meltdown. If John McCain thinks that community organizers caused the foreclosure crisis, he knows even less about the economy than previously thought.

    "John McCain and the Republicans are desperately trying to shift the blame for the economic crisis they caused with a philosophy of deregulation and indifference to homeowners. All the grainy footage and creepy music in the world can't cancel out some simple, basic facts, and the facts about the economy are not on John McCain's side."

    Bogus "Voter Fraud Charges" Aim to Camouflage Voter Suppression

    ACORN has just completed the largest, most successful nonpartisan voter registration drive in U.S. history. We helped 1.3 million low-income, minority and young voters across the country register to vote.

    Unfortunately, just as in 2006, that success in bringing people into the democratic process, have been greeted with unfounded accusations to disparage our work and help maintain the status quo of an unbalanced electorate.

    After a similar spate of charges against ACORN in 2006, we learned that then-Attorney General Alberto Gonzales had fired Republican U.S. Attorneys because they refused to prosecute ACORN and other voter assistance groups on trumped up fraud charges. This was the heart of the U.S. Attorney-gate scandal that led Karl Rove, Gonzales and other top Department of Justice officials to resign. Because the press didn’t catch on until long after the election, it was part of a successful strategy to create an unfounded specter of voter fraud and to suppress voting.

    Key Facts:
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 11, 2008....
    http://gophypocrites.com/2008/10/hyp08041.html
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 11, 2008....
    Never leave a stone unturned.

    Dfer: Re: 'Ayers'

    From balloon-juice.com

    The NY Times Gets Letters

    by John Cole

    From the guy who led the prosecution of the Weathermen:

    Re “Politics of Attack” (editorial, Oct. 8) and “Obama and ’60s Bomber: A Look Into Crossed Paths” (front page, Oct. 4):

    As the lead federal prosecutor of the Weathermen in the 1970s (I was then chief of the criminal division in the Eastern District of Michigan and took over the Weathermen prosecution in 1972), I am amazed and outraged that Senator Barack Obama is being linked to William Ayers’s terrorist activities 40 years ago when Mr. Obama was, as he has noted, just a child.

    Although I dearly wanted to obtain convictions against all the Weathermen, including Bill Ayers, I am very pleased to learn that he has become a responsible citizen.

    Because Senator Obama recently served on a board of a charitable organization with Mr. Ayers cannot possibly link the senator to acts perpetrated by Mr. Ayers so many years ago.

    I do take issue with the statement in your news article that the Weathermen indictment was dismissed because of “prosecutorial misconduct.” It was dismissed because of illegal activities, including wiretaps, break-ins and mail interceptions, initiated by John N. Mitchell, attorney general at that time, and W. Mark Felt, an F.B.I. assistant director.

    William C. Ibershof

    Mill Valley, Calif., Oct. 8, 2008
  • ALIENated said on Oct 12, 2008....
    
    You guys are the fucking joke. That you have to stretch so far to justify
    what Obama is. Obama is the one that hates America. Obama is the one
    that sat in a racist church that hates America for 20 years. I could go
    out and cut and paste a turd wagon load of liberal crap into your post,
    too, but it would still be a turd wagon load of liberal crap. This is pretty
    pathetic stuff. A junior high exercise in fight fire with fire. This is the
    sort of thing Obama brings with him. Numbskullism. I expect it from
    skrotumcrumb, but I somehow thought bloc and Sean could think clearer
    than all this. D6, why are you waisting your time on this? I guess it is
    fun to poke the caged bear. The funny thing is going to be the MSM
    magically uncovering all this IF Obama becomes president. They have
    to sell their newspapers, after all. That will be the fucking joke. ha ha ha
    
    
  • D6fer said on Oct 12, 2008....
  • In Ohio in the last election, there were four counties where voter registration exceeded the number of voting-age people in the counties.

  • In Colorado, ACORN registered some individuals 40 separate times. Danforth noted that the ACORN director in Ohio played this down, saying in effect just because you register somebody 35 times doesn’t mean that they get to vote 35 times. “So, a fairly cavalier attitude,” he concluded.

  • In Nevada, nearly 1,000 felons were illegally registered to vote in 2004.

  • In Washington state, felony charges were brought against ACORN workers and some went to jail.

  • On Sept. 18th in The Washington Post, an article pointed out the danger that Election Day could become a real mess because of the applications turned in for registration of people who are not entitled to vote.

  • In Michigan, ACORN enrolled 200,000 voters and a spokesman for the secretary of state of Michigan has said that there appears to be a sizable number of duplicate and fraudulent applications.

  • The Clark County, Nev., registrar claims that there has been rampant fraud, and counts roughly 40 percent of registration applications submitted by ACORN from January through July had been rejected or questioned.

  • In Pennsylvania, official are investigating ACORN for filing fraudulent voter registrations. One ACORN worker is facing 19 counts of perjury for making false statements.

  • D6fer said on Oct 12, 2008....
    yeah that ACORN is a great organization

    don't know why that duplicated
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 12, 2008....
    Since you two seem to channel your sources from another dimension what is the point?

    Alien: until you take that republican pacifier out of you mouth there is no sense in responding to your gibberish.

    Dfer: 'One ACORN worker.' Hum... they have over 13,000 temp workers. Whenever they find that one is committing fraud they fire him/her and report the violation. I believe they do their best with what they have to work with. If you visit the ACORN website they have the details. Knowing you probably won't...

    1. In order to help 1.3 million people register to vote, we hired more than 13,000 registration assistance workers. As with any business or agency that operates at this scale, there are always some people who want to get paid without really doing the job, or who aim to defraud their employer. Any large department store will have some workers who shoplift.

    2. Any large voter registration operation will have a small percentage of workers who turn in bogus registration forms, Their goal clearly is not to cast a fraudulent vote. It is simply to defraud their employer, ACORN, by getting a paycheck without earning it. ACORN is the victim of this fraud – not the perpetrator.

    3. In nearly every case that has been reported , it was ACORN that discovered the bad forms, and called them to the attention of election authorities, putting the forms in a package that identified them in writing as suspicious, encouraging election officials to investigate, and offering to help with prosecutions. We are required by law to turn in all forms, but instead of just turning them in and figuring that it is the responsibility of the board of elections to figure out which are valid, we spend millions of dollars verifying that forms are valid, and then separate out those that are suspicious.

    4. This has nothing to do with “voter fraud” – nothing at all to do with anyone trying to cast an extra vote. There has never been a single reported instance in which bogus registration forms have led to anyone voting improperly. To do that, they would have to show up at the polls, prove their identity as all first-time registrants must, and risk jail. The people who turned in these forms did so not because they wanted an extra vote, but because they didn’t care enough to make sure eligible people got to vote at all.

    5. When a department store calls the police to report a shoplifting employee, no one says the department store is guilty of consumer fraud. But for some reason, when ACORN turns voter registration workers over to the authorities for filling out bogus forms, it gets accused of “voter fraud.” This is a classic case of blaming the victim; indeed, these charges are outrageous, libelous, and often politically motivated.

    6. Similar attacks were launched against ACORN and other voter registration organizations in 2004 and 2006. The bogus charges were at the heart of the U.S. Attorney-gate scandal that led to the resignations of Karl Rove, Attorney General Ablerto Gonzales and other top Justice Department Officials. It turned out that it was the charges that were fraudulent, and that they were part of a systematic partisan agenda of voter suppression. Republican U.S. Attorneys David Iglesias (NM), Todd Graves (MO), and John McKay (WA) all were fired primarily because they refused to prosecute similar bogus charges of “voter fraud.” Another U.S. Attorney, Bradley Schlozman, who did politicize prosecutions against former ACORN canvassers, was forced to acknowledge under cross examination by the Senate Judiciary Committee that ACORN was the victim of fraud by its employees and ACORN had caught the employees and had identified them to law enforcement.

    7. The goals of the people orchestrating these attacks are to distract ACORN from helping people vote and to justify massive voter suppression. That’s the real voter fraud; the noise about a small fraction of the forms ACORN has turned in is meant to get the press and public take their eyes off the real threat, while those hurling the charges are stealing people’s right to vote in broad daylight. They have already tried to prevent Ohio from registering voters at its early voting sites. In Michigan, they planned to use foreclosure notices to challenge thousands of voters. And if this year is like past years, they are preparing to use this so-called voter fraud to justify massive challenges to voters in minority precincts on Election Day.
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 12, 2008....
    From the Independent.ie

    Obama offers to employ McCain

    Barack Obama would like to offer John McCain a job if he becomes president, in what his allies say is an attempt to end the bitter partisan rancour that engulfed the White House race last week. 
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 12, 2008....
    From Palin's Vendetta Against Trooper Started Before She Became Governor

    Palin’s opinion of Wooten appears to have darkened only after his marriage to her sister failed. When Palin was mayor of the small town of Wasilla, she had been a character reference for Wooten when the Air Force veteran was pursuing a career in law enforcement.
     
    In a Jan. 1, 2000, letter of reference, Palin wrote that if “America had more people with the grace and sincerity that mirrors the character of Mike Wooten...we would have a much kinder, gentler, trustworthy nation as a result. …

    “I have witnessed Mike’s gift of calm and kindness toward many young kids here in Wasilla,” said Palin’s Jan. 1, 2000 letter written on City of Wasilla letterhead. “I have never seen him raise his voice, nor lose patience nor become aggitated [sic] in the presence of any child. Instead, Mike consistently remains a fine role model for my own children, and other young people in Wasilla.”

    Alaska law enforcement officials investigated all of Palin’s accusations and concluded that some of the allegations she and her family lodged against her brother-in-law did violate department policy, including an admission by Wooten that he tasered his stepson, Payton, and drank beer while on duty. The department suspended Wooten for 10 days, which the union negotiated down to five.

    "The record clearly indicates a serious and concentrated pattern of unacceptable and at times, illegal activity occurring over a lengthy period, which establishes a course of conduct totally at odds with the ethics of our profession," Col. Grimes wrote in March 1, 2006, letter suspending Wooten.
     
    "This discipline is meant to be a last chance to take corrective action," Grimes wrote. "You are hereby given notice that any further occurrences of these types of behaviors or incidents will not be tolerated and will result in your termination."


    Todd Palin, that ‘First Dude,’ seems to have some overriding personal interest in the matter. I bet he had a dalliance with his sister-in-law, (Sarah's younger sister) Wooten's wife. The ‘First Dude’ is probably a freelancer like most 'big' small-town crackers.

    Sarah Palin is allegedly to have had an affair with Todd's business partner— some snowmobile dealer named Brad Hanson. So says the former brother-in-law of the brother of Hanson’s wife.

    It's reported: “Todd discovered the affair and quickly dissolved his friendship and business associations with the guy. Many people in Alaska are talking about the rumor and say Todd swept it under the rug.”

    How else would Todd have "some sort of Machiavellian power behind the throne."

    'This guy seems to have knack of insinuating himself into positions of authority without the nuisance of actually getting elected to anything.'

    An article in the Toronto Star describes Todd's unusual influence:

    When Alaska's former public safety commissioner was summoned to a sensitive personnel meeting in the governor's office here, he sat down to discuss the matter not with Governor Sarah Palin, but with Todd Palin, her husband.

    When the contract terms between the state and the Public Safety Employees Association were reached, an internal government email was copied to Todd Palin.

    And when a visiting official sought an urgent meeting regarding the state's native corporations to discuss their priorities and voter perceptions, he got the meeting – with Todd Palin.
  • D6fer said on Oct 12, 2008....
    the statistics I listed above were not the result of one or two "bad employees", it is the result of a bad organization.....we are talking about thousands of cases of voter fraud, not a few.....as early as last week ACORN was rounding up homeless people in Ohio, registering them to vote and having them vote on the spot......one ACORN activist admitted on tape that she was encouraging them to vote for Obama.....one man said that "they said that they would take me wherever I needed to go, if I would sign up and vote"......they had no records on these people and didn't even know if they were actual Ohio residents....kind of important in my opinion.

    ACORN is funded by our tax dollars.....it should not be a tool for Obama and the democrat party.

    Obama has a long history with ACORN and money has past back and forth between ACORN and the Obama campaigns.

    This is a major conflict of interest.
  • bloc said on Oct 12, 2008....
    acorn has done some stuff they shouldn't. This is true.

    Can you be honest about the voter roll purges done by the right and the past few elections?
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 12, 2008....
    dfer: until you give a source for your comments what is there to go on? Your word? That my Right Honorable Friend is not good enough. Especially considering you reliance on industry lobby material and political pundits.

    Let me remind you...

    Using a source that has no credibility is worse than having no source at all.

    You may dislike the homeless but they are citizens just like you. Ohio elections laws allows people to register and cast ballots at the same time without having to prove residency.

    The reason you and your sources dislike ACORN is that they register voters that are mostly poor and mostly democratic. Any fraud done by their 13,000 temp people is unfortunate and more than offset by the republican fraud as evidenced by the last presidential elections in Florida and Ohio.

    I personally support what ACORN does. I looked into the issue and you my friend are wrong.
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 12, 2008....
    Alaskan Independence Party: The Last Refuge of a Scoundrel

    By Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

    Posted October 9, 2008 | HuffingtonPost

    So when Palin accuses Barack of "not seeing the same America as you and me," maybe she is referring to an America without Alaska. In any case, isn't it time the media start giving equal time to Palin's buddy list of anti-American bombers and other radical associates?
  • D6fer said on Oct 12, 2008....
    sheltercrow.....the first one was a result of a google search on ACORN corruption.....I had many to choose from....if you had done so much research on the organization, I would think that you would know of all of their unscrupulous behavior....bloc does...whats your problem?
    I have never....ever....been able to produce a single solitary peice of evidence from any link ever that you would consider credible on any subject.....this subject....global warming....you name it....ll is discredited in your eyes.....if it isn't written in some communist rag it isn't true to you.....so why should I bother linking anything?
    Why do you or anyone for that matter think that it is ok to not have to provide fucking proof of who you are in order to vote? That is a wide open opportunity for fraud and you know it!
    Democrats don't want proof.....Republicans do........why? Because 99% of all voter fraud types vote democrat!....Felons vote democrat......Illegal aliens vote democrat!....dead people vote democrat.........bums bribed by ACORN with a fucking baloney sandwich vote democrat!.....I can only assume that that is how you became so fond of such a corrupt organization!
  • kelly said on Oct 12, 2008....
    "lol.......I'll let the Reagan legacy speak for itself.....you are a joke!"

    Which legacy?  The one in which he went behind the back of Congress to fund an illegal war?  The one in which he used those illegal funds to train death squads in Central America?  Reagan was a piece of scum.
  • D6fer said on Oct 12, 2008....
    bloc....i googled the voter purge thing.....I couldn't find anything concrete....all allegations....sounds like some purging is needed from time to time (removing the dead, etc).....if there is some illegal purging taking place, I sincerely hope that they will convict those responsible....just as I would like to see those at ACORN responsible for fraud prosecuted as well....with any luck, sheltercrow will be picked up soon, and we wont have to put up with the cut and paste king any longer.
  • D6fer said on Oct 12, 2008....
    Reagan is revered as one of the greatest presidents ever.....that just kills you doesn't it kelly? ;p
  • sheltercrow said on Oct 13, 2008....
    Dfer: the art of the search is to use the sources that are credible. Your sources are all industry lobbyists and political pundits. Both of these groups write for their own profit.  I can only suppose you omit your sources due to potential embarrassment.

    Its unfortunate that you consider anything not published by the afore mentioned groups as 'communist.' A true believer of the corporate creed.

    Your starting to use aliens pacifier. You whine on and on without any seeming direction except that voice in your head. 'liberals' must get the 'liberals'
  • D6fer said on Oct 13, 2008....
    fine have it your way.

    WASHINGTON, Sept 25, 2008 /PRNewswire-USNewswire via COMTEX/ -- James Terry, Chief Public Advocate for the Consumers Rights League, today testified at a joint House Administration and House Judiciary Committee oversight hearing on "Federal, State and Local Efforts to Prepare for the General 2008 Election," where he highlighted "corruption at every level of ACORN including embezzlement, cover-ups, misuse of taxpayer funds and voter fraud." An excerpt of his testimony follows:
    James Terry, Chief Public Advocate, Consumers Rights League:
    "ACORN routinely says it will clean up its act. Yet, given its decade-long history of voter fraud, embezzlement, and misuses of taxpayer funds, ACORN's pattern of fraud can no longer be dismissed as a series of 'unfortunate events.'

    source



  • D6fer said on Oct 13, 2008....
    So, less than a week before the midterm elections, four workers from Acorn, the liberal activist group that has registered millions of voters, have been indicted by a federal grand jury for submitting false voter registration forms to the Kansas City, Missouri, election board. But hey, who needs voter ID laws?

    source
  • D6fer said on Oct 13, 2008....

    Barack Obama is running as fast and as far away from his association with the radical group ACORN as he can, but he can’t hide from the facts of his close relationship with the organization.

    ACORN, or Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, describes itself as a “non-partisan” group devoted to helping the poor and to registering millions to vote. Critics accuse ACORN of involvement vote fraud, voter intimidation, shakedowns against businesses, and the promotion of socialist class hatred and class warfare.


    source

  • D6fer said on Oct 13, 2008....
    Guess which left-wing group is at the center of the worst case of voter-registration fraud in Washington state history? Yep, you guessed it: ACORN. The same ACORN tied to massive voter fraud in Missouri. And Ohio. And 12 other states. Here’s the Washington state scoop via Seattle’s KOMO TV: “King County prosecutors filed felony charges Thursday against seven people in what a top official described as the worst case of voter-registration fraud in state history, while the organization they worked for agreed to keep a better eye on its employees and pay $25,000 to defray costs of the investigation. The seven submitted about 1,800 registration cards last fall on behalf of the liberal Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN, which had hired them at $8 an hour to sign people up to vote, according to charging documents filed in Superior Court.” Prosecutors didn’t sugercoat the fraud: “This was an act of vandalism upon the voter rolls of King County,” said Dan Satterberg, the interim King County prosecutor. But officials tried to give ACORN some benefit of the doubt, noting that the defendants were motivated by financial gain rather than intentions of sabotaging the election.

    source
  • D6fer said on Oct 13, 2008....

    Court Finds Brunner in Violation of Federal Law
    Secretary of State appeals ruling, fights effort to validate registrations

    (Columbus) - A federal court ruled tonight that Ohio Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner violated federal election laws by not taking adequate steps to validate the identity of newly registered voters.

    The ruling from U.S. District Court Judge George C. Smith called the identification breakdown “a serious problem” and ordered Brunner to immediately comply with federal requirements to match voter registration data with the information in the Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles and Social Security Administration databases. The court accused Brunner of failing to provide county election administrators with “an effective way to access and review mismatches.” She immediately appealed the ruling.

    “For some reason, Jennifer Brunner does not want these new registrations checked,” said Ohio Republican Party Deputy Chairman Kevin DeWine. “Her refusal to comply with federal law raises serious concerns about her ability to objectively oversee this election. It’s especially troubling in light of her connection to ACORN and that group’s stunning confession this week of fraudulent registration activity happening right here in Ohio.”

    Brunner’s effort to fight the court order comes just two days after the Democrat activist group ACORN admitted to the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections that the group engages in fraudulent voter registration activity.

    Ohio ACORN officials “blamed the elections board for not scrutinizing ACORN’s suspicious cards,” claiming the group “can’t be expected to catch everything.”

    ACORN is facing similar inquires in other Ohio counties as well as 10 other states. Members of the group’s “voter-mobilization arm,” Project Vote, regularly advise Brunner on election strategy, even recently issuing a news release that claims credit for Brunner’s directive restricting challenges to suspected fraudulent voter registrations. Democrat presidential candidate Barack Obama also has strong ties to ACORN, working previously as an attorney and “leadership trainer” for the group.

    source

  • D6fer said on Oct 13, 2008....

    A man at the center of a voter-registration scandal told The Post yesterday he was given cash and cigarettes by aggressive ACORN activists in exchange for registering an astonishing 72 times, in apparent violation of Ohio laws.

    “Sometimes, they come up and bribe me with a cigarette, or they’ll give me a dollar to sign up,” said Freddie Johnson, 19, who filled out 72 separate voter-registration cards over an 18-month period at the behest of the left-leaning Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now.

    “The ACORN people are everywhere, looking to sign people up. I tell them I am already registered. The girl said, ‘You are?’ I say, ‘Yup,’ and then they say, ‘Can you just sign up again?’ ” he said.

    source

  • D6fer said on Oct 13, 2008....
    State   Year   Details   AR 1998 A contractor with ACORN-affiliated Project Vote was arrested for falsifying about 400 voter registration cards. CO 2004 An ACORN employee admitted to forging signatures and registering three of her friends to vote 40 times.   2005 Two ex-ACORN employees were convicted in Denver of perjury for submitting false voter registrations. FL 2004 A Florida Department of Law Enforcement spokesman said ACORN was “singled out” among suspected voter registration groups for a 2004 wage initiative because it was “the common thread” in the agency’s fraud investigations. MI 2004 The Detroit Free Press reported that “overzealous or unscrupulous campaign workers in several Michigan counties are under investigation for voter-registration fraud, suspected of attempting to register nonexistent people or forging applications for already-registered voters.” ACORN-affiliate Project Vote was one of two groups suspected of turning in the documents. MO 2007 Four ACORN employees were indicted in Kansas City for charges including identity theft and filing false registrations during the 2006 election.
    2006 Eight ACORN employees in St. Louis were indicted on federal election fraud charges. Each of the eight faces up to five years in prison for forging signatures and submitting false information.
    2003 Of 5,379 voter registration cards ACORN submitted in St. Louis, only 2,013 of those appeared to be valid. At least 1,000 are believed to be attempts to register voters illegally. NC 2004 North Carolina officials investigated ACORN for submitting fake voter registration cards. NM 2005 Four ACORN employees submitted as many as 3,000 potentially fraudulent signatures on the group’s Albuquerque ballot initiative. A local sheriff added: “It’s safe to say the forgery was widespread.”   2004 An ACORN employee registered a 13-year-old boy to vote. Citing this and other examples, New Mexico State Representative Joe Thompson stated that ACORN was “manufacturing voters” throughout New Mexico. OH 2007 A man in Reynoldsburg was indicted on two felony counts of illegal voting and false registration, after being registered by ACORN to vote in two separate counties.
    2004 A grand jury indicted a Columbus ACORN worker for submitting a false signature and false voter registration form. In Franklin County, two ACORN workers submitted what the director of the board of election supervisors called “blatantly false” forms. In Cuyahoga County, ACORN and its affiliate Project Vote submitted registration cards that had the highest rate of errors for any voter registration group. MN 2004 During a traffic stop, police found more than 300 voter registration cards in the trunk of a former ACORN employee, who had violated a legal requirements that registration cards be submitted to the Secretary of State within 10 days of being filled out and signed. PA 2008 An ACORN employee in West Reading, PA, was sentenced to up to 23 months in prison for identity theft and tampering with records. A second ACORN worker pleaded not guilty to the same charges and is free on $10,000 bail.
    2004 Reading’s Director of Elections received calls from numerous individuals complaining that ACORN employees deliberately put inaccurate information on their voter registration forms. The Berks County director of elections said voter fraud was “absolutely out of hand,” and added: “Not only do we have unintentional duplication of voter registration but we have blatant duplicate voter registrations.” The Berks County deputy director of elections added that ACORN was under investigation by the Department of Justice. TX 2004 ACORN turned in the voter registration form of David Young, who told reporters “The signature is not my signature. It’s not even close.” His social security number and date of birth were also incorrect. VA 2005 In 2005, the Virginia State Board of Elections admonished Project Vote and ACORN for turning in a significant number of faulty voter registrations. An audit revealed that 83% of sampled registrations that were rejected for carrying false or questionable information were submitted by Project Vote. Many of these registrations carried social security numbers that exist for other people, listed non-existent or commercial addresses, or were for convicted felons in violation of state and federal election law.

    In a letter to ACORN, the State Board of Elections reported that 56% of the voter registration applications ACORN turned in were ineligible. Further, a full 35% were not submitted in a timely manner, as required by law. The State Board of Elections also commented on what appeared to be evidence of intentional voter fraud. "Additionally,” they wrote, “information appears to have been altered on some applications where information given by the applicant in one color ink has been scratched through and re-entered in another color ink. Any alteration of a voter registration application is a Class 5 Felony in accordance with § 24.2-1009 of the Code of Virginia." WA 2007 Three ACORN employees pleaded guilty, and four more were charged, in the worst case of voter registration fraud in Washington state history. More than 2,000 fraudulent voter registration cards were submitted by the group during a voter registration drive. WI 2004 The district attorney’s office investigated seven voter registration applications Project Vote employees filed in the names of people who said the group never contacted them. Former Project Vote employee Robert Marquise Blakely told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that he had not met with any of the people whose voter registration applications he signed, “an apparent violation of state law,” according to the paper.


  • D6fer said on Oct 13, 2008....
    source for above
  • D6fer said on Oct 13, 2008....
    Four people have been indicted on charges of voter fraud in Kansas City, officials said Wednesday.Investigators said questionable registration forms for new voters were collected by the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, a group that works to improve minority and low-income communities.The four indicted -- Kwaim A. Stenson, Dale D. Franklin, Stephanie L. Davis and Brian Gardner -- were employed by ACORN as registration recruiters. They were each charged with two counts. IBSYS.ad.AdManager.registerPosition({ "iframe": false, "addlSz": "", "element": "ad_N700076.2E60", "interstitials": false, "beginDate": "", "endDate": "", "getSect": "", "name": "square", "qString": "", "width": "300", "height": "250", "section": "", "useId": "", "interactive": false, "useSameCategory": true, "topic": "", "swSectionRoot": "", "useZone": "", "type": "DOM" }); Click here to find out more!sponsor Federal indictments allege the four turned in false voter registration applications. Prosecutors said the indictments are part of a national investigation.ACORN and Project Vote recruit and assign workers to low-income and minority neighborhoods to register people to vote.The Kansas City Election Board told KMBC they found suspicious forms, such as seven applications from one person and an application for a dead man."There is some motive behind it -- this is not accidental," said Ray James with the Kansas City Election Board.Election officials said some of the application cards had false addresses, signatures and phone numbers.ACORN officials in Kansas City said they turned in the four people who were indicted."We're very happy that they were indicted," said Claudie Harris with ACORN.Harris said ACORN workers are paid by the hour and not by the number of voter registration cards they turn in.

    source
  • D6fer said on Oct 13, 2008....
    so....make sure you read every bit of that shelter......let me know if and why or why not each source is credible or not.
  • bloc said on Oct 13, 2008....
    @d6
    the voter purges are concrete, the problem is that it's nearly impossible to prove someones intent. If you go into a court and say "this person purged x thousand legitimate voters in a primarily democratic district" it isn't proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

    That and the person responsible for bringing charges in many instances is a republican.
  • D6fer said on Oct 13, 2008....
    any form of voter fraud should be prosecuted........the way I see it bloc....if what you say is really going on.....then it is a matter of republicans taking things too far, and in the process of removing legitimate problems in the voting rolls....they are taking a few extras.....they should go to jail for it....along with the leaders at ACORN and their lawyers
  • bloc said on Oct 13, 2008....
    speaking of ACORN did you know that McCain is very friendly with them? He headlined one of their events on immigration in 2006.

  • D6fer said on Oct 13, 2008....
    I disagree with McCains stance on immigration.....doesn't sound like he is too cozy with ACORN these days:

    Bertha Lewis, Acorn's chief organizer, said in a statement that came with the photo, “It has deeply saddened us to see Senator McCain abandon his historic support for ACORN and our efforts to support the goals of low-income Americans."
  • bloc said on Oct 13, 2008....
    i haven't seen anything yet that makes me believe the leaders of ACORN had anything to do with this. Sounds like a few bad apples doesn't it?
  • D6fer said on Oct 13, 2008....
    a few? were talking thousands upon thousands of fraudulent votes nationwide.....one state could swing an election.......ACORN funding should be halted and they should be investigated.
  • bloc said on Oct 13, 2008....
    a few people can register a lot of bad votes. 

    you mean somethign like the voter roll purges in florida could have decided an election?
  • GnawingDog said on Oct 14, 2008....
    The Consumer Rights League (CRL) appears to be a front group for the credit card industry that was created to do battle with industry critics such as the Center for Responsible Lending and ACORN.

    On July 17, 2008, CRL ran a full-page advertisement on page 5B of USA Today, arguing against a bill before Congress that it claimed would "pickpocket consumers" at the gas pump. The ad implied that the bill, the "Credit Card Fair Fee Act" (H.R. 5546) is anti-consumer (the same position taken by the Visa International credit card company.

    The "Consumers Rights League" does not disclose on its Web site that it was started by Terry L. Kibbe, a former chief fundraiser for the Competitive Enterprise Institute and the Cato Institute. A March 2008 article in Forbes omits the details about Kibbe's background, while quoting her Kibbe's criticism of Self-Help Credit Union, the North Carolina-based relative of the Center for Responsible Lending, which advocates against payday loans. According to Forbes:

    Terry L. Kibbe, a former think tank fundraiser who last year started a libertarian consumer advocacy outfit, Consumers Rights League, notes that Self-Help's high delinquency rate--it's seven times that of the typical credit union--proves that Eakes is as bad at judging borrowers' ability to pay back loans as anybody else. Self-Help says less than 1% of its loans ultimately default.

    CRL's website contains several examples of anti-consumer-group rhetoric, but discloses no information about the group's own funding, the site's origins or who runs it.

    A research report on the site appears to argue on behalf of the credit card industry, stating, "Most importantly, credit cards can provide inexpensive access to credit for low-income Americans, many of whom take advantage of 0% and low-interest rates to pay down debt." 
  • GnawingDog said on Oct 14, 2008....
    The WSJ article 'The Acorn Indictments: A union-backed outfit faces charges of election fraud.' list no author at all.
  • GnawingDog said on Oct 14, 2008....
    Michelle Malkin is not a journalist she is a political pundit.

    Bronwyn Lance Chester, an editorial writer at The Virginian-Pilot, stated in November 2004 when the newspaper dropped Malkin's column that Malkin "habitually mistakes shrill for thought-provoking and substitutes screaming for discussion. She's an Asian Ann Coulter. [...] She’s the worst of what's wrong with punditry today. She adds absolutely nothing to genuine political discourse." Malkin responded "I'm not Asian, I'm American, for goodness' sake. I would take the comparison to Ann Coulter as somewhat of a compliment. I have a lot of respect for Ann Coulter."

    Michelle Malkin is not a journalist she is a political pundit.

    Malkin is a frequent guest on Fox News Channel and is author of three books: Invasion: How America Still Welcomes Terrorists, Criminals, and Other Foreign Menaces to Our Shores (Regnery, 2002), In Defense of Internment: The Case for "Racial Profiling" in World War II and the War on Terror (Regnery, 2004), and Unhinged: Exposing Liberals Gone Wild (Regnery, 2005).

    In Defense of Internment was widely criticized and was debunked in an 11-part blog series by Eric Muller of the University at North Carolina Law School and Greg Robinson of the University of Quebec at Montreal; the series includes responses and correspondence from Malkin.
  • ALIENated said on Oct 14, 2008....
    
    Left Wing Democrat's Song
    
    To the tune of "The Major General's Song".
    
    I am the very model of a modern left wing democrat.
    I preach both Dean and Chomsky in forums on the internet.
    I can’t hold long a single thought. I need to take my Ritalin.
    Now what was that you asked of me? Did I just take my vitamin?
    I cannot lose an argument, so why don’t you get used to it.
    I won’t concede a single point, even if there’s no truth in it.
    No matter what you say to me, I’ll post back an ad-homenim.
    Regardless of the things you do, you’re all BushHitler’s supermen
    They call me Howard Dean's true joy, and I fling Marx like it was poo.
    On all the countless websites that my drivel is cross-posted to.
    
    Chorus:
    We call him Howard Dean's true joy, and he flings Marx like it was poo.
    On all the countless weblogs that his drivel is cross-posted to.
    On all the countless weblogs that his drivel is cross-posted to.
    
    
    Your weblog I will litter with my often posted snivelling
    And you all have to pay the bill, supporting all my drivelling.
    My posts run on for sixty lines of mindless dreck and scribbling,
    Big blocks of Marx and Morford too, plump out my posts with twiddling.
    Impossible to penetrate much less on which to cogitate
    I don’t see how you can relate, to my simplistic mental state.
    I will flame you with invective till you yield to my perspective.
    Of socialist utopia when we join the big collective.
    My whole outlook is progressive my belief is so obsessive
    All your taxes are regressive cause with stuff we are possessive.
    
    Chorus:
    His whole outlook is progressive his belief is so obsessive
    All our taxes are regressive cause with stuff they are possessive.
    All our taxes are regressive cause with stuff they are possessive.
    
    I’m ignorant of simple facts, both social and historical.
    So don’t confuse me with your lies, just argue metaphorical.
    No matter what you say to me, I’ll argue opposite you see.
    If provably you show I’m wrong I’ll change the question joyfully.
    My facts are bad, conclusions too, my arguments erroneous,
    You’ll be crying oh boo hoo, cause I’m so sanctimonious.
    My learning is extensive but is nothing more than Chomskyia,
    Designed to fan my hatred of the Empire called Amerika,
    Your ruler soon is coming down, we'll crush him like a big ass clown
    In future Dean will wear the crown, so I don't care if you all drown.
    I am the very model of a left wing personality.
    I intersperse mendacity with vacuous opacity.
    
    Chorus:
    He is the very model of a left wing personality.
    He’ll intersperse mendacity with vacuous opacity.
    He’ll intersperse mendacity with vacuous opacity.
    
    
  • GnawingDog said on Oct 14, 2008....
    www.rottenacorn.com uses as its source the Employment Policies Institute.

    The Employment Policies Institute (EPI) is one of several front groups created by Berman & Co., a Washington, DC public affairs firm owned by Rick Berman, who lobbies for the restaurant, hotel, alcoholic beverage and tobacco industries. While most commonly referred to as EPI, it is registered as a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organization under the name of Employment Policies Institute Foundation. In its annual Internal Revenue Service return, EPI states that it "shares office space with Berman & Company on a cost pass through basis".

    EPI has has been widely quoted in news stories regarding minimum wage issues, and although a few of those stories have correctly described it as a "think tank financed by business," most stories fail to provide any identification that would enable readers to identify the vested interests behind its pronouncements. Instead, it is usually described exactly the way it describes itself, as a "non-profit research organization dedicated to studying public policy issues surrounding employment growth" that "focuses on issues that affect entry-level employment." In reality, EPI's mission is to keep the minimum wage low so Berman's clients can continue to pay their workers as little as possible.

    EPI also owns the internet domain names to MinimumWage.com and LivingWage.com, a website that attempts to portray the idea of a living wage for workers as some kind of insidious conspiracy. "Living wage activists want nothing less than a national livingwage," it warns (as though there is something wrong with paying employees enough that they can afford to eat and pay rent).

    In 2005 EPI provided, according to its IRS return, $307,995 by way of grants to the FirstJobs Institute, which it describes as an "economic literacy program".
  • D6fer said on Oct 14, 2008....
    shelte......er uh....gnawingdog.....I see you have put a lot of effort into finding something wrong with the people pointing out the facts........but what about the facts?
    if michelle malkin tells you that it is 70 degrees and sunny and it is, does it make it a lie?
    Where all of these allegations made up?

    I will help you out......the answer is no......ACORN is a corrupt organization, paid for with my tax dollars......it promotes a political party that in most cases I do not support.
  • GnawingDog said on Oct 14, 2008....
    Your last source, ACORN Workers Indicted For Alleged Voter Fraud, says it all...

    ACORN officials in Kansas City said they turned in the four people who were indicted.

    "We're very happy that they were indicted," said Claudie Harris with ACORN.

    Harris said ACORN workers are paid by the hour and not by the number of voter registration cards they turn in.

    "When you fraudulently defraud this, that gives us a bad name and what we're trying to do a bad name," Harris said.

    ACORN officials said the four indicted have been fired.
  • GnawingDog said on Oct 14, 2008....
    Dfer:

    Re: I see you have put a lot of effort into finding something wrong with the people pointing out the facts.

    Since when are 'Industry lobbyists and political pundits' to be considered 'people' with 'facts.'

    Re: it promotes a political party that in most cases I do not support.

    ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, is the nation's largest community organization of low- and moderate-income families, working together for social justice and stronger communities.

    'low- and moderate-income families' 'working together for social justice and stronger communities' is what you don't support?

    ACORN is committed to the principle of financial self-sufficiency. Members pay dues and organize a wide array of grassroots fundraising events which today account for 75 percent of the entire organization’s budget.

    Where do you get the idea that your tax dollars are given to ACORN?

    ACORN And Federal Funding

    Does ACORN Recieve Federal Funding?

    The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now does not apply for nor does it receive any federal grants.

    ACORN has had contracts with other nonprofit organizations to perform work on projects which received federal grant support. For example, ACORN has received contracts to:

    • Identify families eligible to receive food stamps and assist them to apply.
    • Identify homeowners facing foreclosure and deliver them for housing counseling and loss mitigation services.
    • Provide lead paint remediation services to households with children living in older neighborhoods.

    The contracts that ACORN receives on these projects are for delivering specific activities, all of which are tax-exempt qualified in accordance with federal grant guidelines. No payments are received until work product has been delivered.

    None of ACORN's contracts to perform work on projects receiving federal grant money has provided funding for voter registration.

    ACORN And Federal Funding

    Would ACORN Have Received Any Funding From The First Bailout Bill?

    Several false claims have been made by members of the right-wing echo chamber that ACORN stood to gain as much as 20 percent of whatever profits would have come from the future sale of the mortgage assets the first version of the so-called bailout bill would buy.

    Of course, this was soon exaggerated to "20 percent of the bailout", then tagged at $700 billion, implying that somehow ACORN was on the verge of receiving $140 billion from its "Democratic friends" in Congress.

    ACORN can only dream of a windfall about equal to the annual budget of the entire state of California.

    The plain absurdity of this claim did not stop it from being amplfied across the media. From Media Matters for America:
  • D6fer said on Oct 14, 2008....
    I will not support any organization that does not support voter identification enforcement.
  • GnawingDog said on Oct 14, 2008....
    Voter ID Law Is Overturned

    ...a U.S. appeals court yesterday upheld an injunction barring the state of Georgia from enforcing a law requiring citizens to get government-issued photo identification in order to vote.

    ...U.S. District Judge Harold L. Murphy likened the law to a Jim Crow-era poll tax that required residents, most of them black, to pay back taxes before voting. He said the law appeared to violate the Constitution for that reason. In the 2004 election, about 150,000 Georgians voted without producing government-issued identification.

    ...Birch and Dubina were appointed by President George H. W. Bush, and Hull was named to the appellate court by President Bill Clinton.
  • ALIENated said on Oct 14, 2008....
    
    This is amazing stuff. That someone could believe ACORN is anything but
    corrupt and trying to commit voter fraud. It is sad when people try to 
    defend this sort of stuff. And how is homo Andrew Sullivan a source?
    Can I use my gay neighbor as a source? How about my dog?
    
    
  • D6fer said on Oct 14, 2008....
    we should let all of the felons out of jail so they can go vote for Obama!

    and all of the illegal aliens too!

    Degenerates for Obama!
  • SeanRenaud said on Oct 15, 2008....

    LoL.  We all know illegal immigrants are Catholic and vote Republican.

    Seeing how nothing sticks to ACORN it's no less proposterous than claiming that torture doesn't happen. . .but of course we can all continue ignoring facts as we see fit.

    PS.  Acorn seems to be filled with scum and disbanding it would be wise.

  • GnawingDog said on Oct 15, 2008....
    To Moe, Larry, and Curly

    Why is ACORN required to turn in every application that is filled out, even if it says Mickey Mouse?

    ...An October 14 St. Petersburg Times article reporting on the "Mickey Mouse" registration form... Brian Kettenring, whom the Times identified as "ACORN's head organizer in Florida," as asserting: "We must turn in every voter registration card by Florida law, even Mickey Mouse." Indeed, under Florida law, entities withholding voter registration forms face a fine of $1,000 for each registration they withhold.

    According to Florida statutes governing third-party registrations, "A third-party voter registration organization that collects voter registration applications serves as a fiduciary to the applicant, ensuring that any voter registration application entrusted to the third-party voter registration organization, irrespective of party affiliation, race, ethnicity, or gender shall be promptly delivered to the division or the supervisor of elections." If the third-party voter registration organization fails to submit a voter registration application, it is liable for "[a] fine in the amount of $1,000 for any application not submitted if the third-party registration organization or person, entity, or agency acting on its behalf acted willfully." From the 2008 Florida statutes:...
  • GnawingDog said on Oct 15, 2008....
    To Moe, Larry, and Curly

    John McCain's Connection To ACORN



    Countdown: McCain Delivered Key Speech for ACORN in 2006

  • GnawingDog said on Oct 28, 2008....
    Nothing like licking a live horse

  • sheltercrow said on Oct 30, 2008....
    How John McCain Came to Pick Sarah Palin-1/2 Video” width=

    How John McCain Came to Pick Sarah Palin-2/2 Video” width=
  • ALIENated said on Nov 01, 2008....
    
    Any time I have doubts about Palin, I just think of Biden, throw up, and
    then feel contented with Palin again. Media villification of someone like
    Bush or Palin just rolls off of intelligent people such as myself.
    
    
  • SeanRenaud said on Nov 02, 2008....
    LoL.  If you can stick behind Palin you've proven the point that true party people only care that you're part of the same tribe.
  • ALIENated said on Nov 02, 2008....
    
    Saying it does not make it so. But think what you want. Palin would be a 
    better president than Obama, but she will just be second in the McCain
    administration. Obama will be first in line, and will be an immediate and
    cointinuing disappointment simply because he does not know his anus from
    a hole in the ground. How could he or anyone with so little experience?
    At least Palin has been a governor, which is the same credientials that
    Clinton, Reagan, Carter, and Bush had. Obama has ... run for president
    and spent a few months in the senate. That is the kind of experience LBJ
    had, and he was a total disappointment as president. You have to hate
    him if you hate Bush because of the war deal. I think you are the one 
    that has to have simple party allegiance to vote for Obama. But I know 
    you would rather just think everyone else is a moron including Palin. Saying
    it does not make it so, my man. 
    
    

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The people have spoken ... again.

...
Well they did it......despite a majority of Americans that oppose the proposed socialist health care bill.....they passed it.

This will clearly set the ball rolling for a massive Republican resurgence in 2010....
Worlds leading climatologist M.I.T.'s Richard Lindzen on global warming...