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DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF PRAYER?

mixednuts posted on Sep 24, 2008 | views: 2513 | Tags: liars prayers, andora at the nude beach, Prayer, dreams, wisdom, Thinking, sex, Hope, love, MYprayer, Sharing, falsePROMISES, do you love when you pray, Truth, LIFEorDEATH, I-listen, humbleTHYself, god, trust, faith, MINDpower, Saints, theENERGYofTHOUGHT
Has prayer ever done anything for you, or anyone you know? Feel free to give an example if you can if prayer has worked. Should we pray for you?


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Comments

  • wormhilda said on Sep 24, 2008....
    as an aznostic i don't know about prayer, but positive thinking works
  • ALT said on Sep 24, 2008....
    When all I have left is prayer I'll turn to that.
  • overlord said on Sep 24, 2008....
    I hear starchini is going to have a baby and I will pray for them and the father.
  • LUCKY13 said on Sep 24, 2008....
    Hell yes I believe in prayer! It has saved  my life more than once!
  • newmoney said on Sep 24, 2008....
    I think that as long as the prayer is not used for evil or greed it can work.
  • uniquely-ironic said on Sep 24, 2008....
    I believe it makes a difference.  It may not be what we ask for, but it's usually what we need.
  • dragonfly1 said on Sep 24, 2008....
    I agree with IRONIC 100 percent! I was flying my own 4 seater when we started going down above the sea. We(friends)all started to pray. We crashed in the water but we all lived to tell the story! The darn plane sank! The coast guard pulled us out of the water.
  • copsunite said on Sep 24, 2008....
    Being on the border patrol puts me in tough spots all  damn time with the gun fire. If not for a quick prayer to calm me down it would be me on the slab! Was It GOD? I'll never know!
  • GODwaterwalker said on Sep 24, 2008....

    Your  prayers are heard. And if everyone lit just one little candle what a bright world this  would be!

    When you pray for others your prayers are loud!

  • priceless said on Sep 24, 2008....
    I want to believe in God and prayer, but my prayers are never answered.
  • curezilla said on Sep 24, 2008....
    sometimes prayer is the only true cure!
  • backspace said on Sep 24, 2008....

    i only seem to trust or believe in prayer when i'm drunk or drinking

  • BADDA_BING said on Sep 24, 2008....
    I'm no friggin angel, but us Catholics believe in prayer. GOOD FELLAS all fall back on prayer when we think we might get wacked.
  • justincase said on Sep 24, 2008....
    I don't believe prayer works 4 me. I want to! It works for people I know though.
  • sony said on Sep 24, 2008....
    I don't believe
  • catch22 said on Sep 24, 2008....
    I DO BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF PRAYER AND PRAY IN THE MORNING AND BEFORE   BED.
  • mixednuts said on Sep 24, 2008....
    Alright....I pray, but I'm working on the faith thing.
  • puzzle said on Sep 24, 2008....
    this is my first day at SC and I haven't even posted yet, but I wanted to chime in. I DO BELIEVE IN PRAYER!
  • andora said on Sep 24, 2008....
    why are your prayers answered sometimes and not at other times?

    if we listen to uniquely ironic we would have to believe that we do not know what is best for us and that we get what we need not what we want. this is not my experience with prayer...my prayers always get answered...the only variable is the timing.

    i have studied this deeply my entire life. i have published a treatise upon the electromagnetic nature of prayer and sexuality. this information will lead anyone who refuses to over-ride the Will of others into a 'State of Grace'. we deserve to have our prayers answered.

    www.pangasm.org

    aloha and mahalo
  • andora said on Sep 24, 2008....
    welcome to SC puzzle
  • RollingC said on Sep 24, 2008....
    Yes I believe in Prayer....why some prayers get answered and some don't depends on faith, need and God.  (I guess)
    But I firmly believe in prayer. It's soothing and in times of need they come through for you .
    Rc
  • WriterCarlDobbs said on Sep 24, 2008....
    See my blog entry on the subject at soulcast.com\\writerCarlDobbs
     
    First, no prayer that is acceptible to God is worthy to be said unless it is inspired by the Holy Spirit of God. Only God in you can tell you what God's will is. Only then can you have the necessary faith that the prayer will be answered. According to the first chapter of the New Testament book of James, i
    Jas:1:5: If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
    Jas:1:6: But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
    Jas:1:7: For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
    Jas:1:8: A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
    But Jesus promises the Holy Spirit which will guide you into all things.
    Joh:14:16: And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
    Joh:14:26: But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
    Joh:15:26: But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
    Joh:16:7: Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
    And, of course, the first verse of the faith chapter.
    Heb:11:1: Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
    You have knowledge that your prayer will be answered because God's Spirit inspired you to ask for it and that is the evidence that it will occur.
    Do not try to build up your faith by human efforts. It is a gift of God. He is faithful to all who ask for something in the Name of Jesus because you can only ask thing that Jesus, himself would ask for if you do it in his name.
    Definitive answer: God tells you what to ask for. He supplies the answer.
    M't:7:8: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
    M't:7:9: Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
    M't:7:10: Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
    M't:7:11: If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
    M't:7:12: Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets
    Now notice that last phrase. The golden rule. That is inherently associated with the verses that go before. THEREFORE... he says. Do unto others what you would have them do to you!. Don't you see? God's servants on Earth will be the agents to help others in need and to fulfill the prayers that they send to God. We, with his divine spirit in us, will feed the hungry, clothe the naked, tend to the sick and those in prison. God's spirit will drive us to do this. And each time we act we will be fulfilling a prayer that was said to God.
    That is why there are Christians on Earth. Sons of God to do his bidding. So if you ask for the poor to be fed, are you sincere enough to feed what poor you can feed within your means? If you want to comfort the sick and make them better, will you visit them and take care of their physical and spiritual needs? Will you pray with them at their bedsided? If you are sincere in your prayers you'll be doing the acts that Jesus would were he on the Earth for you are his representatives.
    Does God answer prayer? He does it through his sons and daughters who are motivated by His divine Holy Spirit which dwells in us.
    works? can faith save him?
    Jas:2:15: If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
    Jas:2:16: And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
    Jas:2:17: Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
    Jas:2:18: Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
    Jas:2:19: Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
    Jas:2:20: But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
    So do you have faith that your prayer will be answered? Act upon it. That demonstrates your faith.
    M't:25:34: Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
    M't:25:35: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
    M't:25:36: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
    M't:25:37: Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
    M't:25:38: When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
    M't:25:39: Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
    M't:25:40: And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
    So you pray, right? Now do the works of God and show God how much you believe in the things you pray for. Act as His son and do the things sons of God should do. For whenever you act upon your prayer your show sincerity and whatever you do for another you do it to Jesus, himself.
    That answers that question, right?
    function appear_disappear() { var obj = document.getElementById("share_this_post"); obj.style.display=(obj.style.display == 'none')?'block':'none'; }
  • travelr712 said on Sep 24, 2008....
    ahh, another person who loves to talk to themselves.
  • UnsmoothOperator said on Sep 24, 2008....
    they actually did a research on this...the design was basically that people got/didnt get prayed for, thought/didnt think they were getting prayed for. This was done with sic patients.
     
    People that thought were getting prayed for actually recovered significantly slower, or less than people who didnt think people were praying for them to get better.
    The fact that people were or were not praying for someone didnt affect the outcome.
     
    Pretty much sums up what I think about prayers...o and btw I do not pray....
  • StupidGenius said on Sep 24, 2008....

    Prayer doesn’t work, Fact. If you say it does then you have simply convinced yourself that it does. You could say that positive thinking does because if I was trying to hit a really nice drive off the first tee on my favourite golf course and I thought positive about it I would increase my confidence in my swing and there for increase my chances of hitting a nice shot.

    When someone says my prayer was answered they have taken a coincidence to mean that god did it and that is delusional.

    SG

  • Me-Myself&I said on Sep 24, 2008....

    look at all the old faces that are on this very nice post! *smile*

    yup, i do believe in prayer. you may not get what you want but you'll get what you need.

    Travelr, i think it takes talent to talk to yourself and listen too. *smile*

  • andora said on Sep 24, 2008....
    here is a classic example of why prayers for disease recovery are inconsistent

    the brain controls the body

    when the brain believes that the body must age and die then the body responds in like. when this person prays for help when health issues threaten their survival, while wholeheartedly believing that they must age and die they are giving very mixed messages to their god

    universally people believe that death is inevitable no matter what, since our biology, and nature at large, are responsive (see "messages from water" by Masaru Emoto) we have the world we now have...hell on earth

    if you have faith in God, and if you also have faith in the bible then you will have an open heart for the prophecies that are actually in the bible that say there will be a day that death leaves the earth. that is now. it is leaving. that is why the world is fixated on a war on terror because everyone is terrorized of the unknown, and in fact, believe that sugar daddy god is mad at them for being human!

    www.pangasm.org
  • Antimatter said on Sep 24, 2008....
    Prayer doesn't work.
  • RollingC said on Sep 24, 2008....
    @ MeMy....LOL.... There are more than one that have that talent......LOL
  • Twylarants said on Sep 24, 2008....
    Now, you knew someone had to do this...it may as well be the atheist...lol!



  • andora said on Sep 24, 2008....
    really stupid genius, sorry you live in a world with no miracles. i expect them and receive them. helps to have an open heart and a strong desire

    DESIRE IS THE ALCHEMY OF MAGIC

    the difference between magic and miracles is only symantic
  • Antimatter said on Sep 24, 2008....

    "the difference between magic and miracles is only symantic"

    I couldn't have said it better myself. ;)

  • husbandhater said on Sep 24, 2008....

    I pray everyday. I not only beleive in it. I know in my heart that it works. I know the LORD is busy but I always ask that when the supreme being sees fit and it is time to get around to me....... I prayed about my car. Although it is not the car of my dreams I did get a car that was practically brand new and great on mileage. It was what I NEEDED not what I wanted. I hear people crying about the 60-80$ it cost to fill up their tank and how often. Me it takes less than 40 and I'm on 1/2 a tank when I get paid every week especially if I don't go anywhere but back and forth from work to home.,.etc.,.

    I beleive the Lord hears us but it takes us awhile to recognize b/c it's on his time not our time. Sometimes things happen immediately,sometimes it may take months. I prayed about my job situation for the longest and 3yrs later I have 2 good jobs. Now I pray for all of us. Now I pray for strength to run my house. Now I pray for some sort of peace weither in my life,in my mind, or just in general.

    I pray God always forgive me as he did his humble servent David who was a flawed man but always put God 1st and even in times of stray he always came back to the Lord. David is one of my favorite figures from the bible actually. I pray God stay in my heart and in my life and that he do the same for my children and that he grant them more than he has saw fit to grant me. In good and in Bad the Lord has Blessed me. I pray he do the same for my children and family. I also pray he comes into my husbands life and straighten him out and bless him in so many ways. If you want to pray for me you can.

  • Twylarants said on Sep 24, 2008....
    lol...  ; )
  • andora said on Sep 24, 2008....
    aloha antimatter :]
  • mixednuts said on Sep 24, 2008....
    I want the prayers of all who believe. God knows who mixednuts is, so a prayer for me would be wonderful.
  • StupidGenius said on Sep 24, 2008....

    Yes of course you do andora... in your mind you really believe that, doesn’t make it true though. Prayers answered = god did it, Prayer unanswered = Pray some more and eventually when the thing you prayed for happens then that must mean that your praying did it. That is a joke. Sorry but there is no evidence for prayer at all, or miracles as you see them. This is the real world, why don’t you join us sometime.

     
    SG
  • andora said on Sep 24, 2008....
    why yes SG it does make it true, for me and my body

    God gave me free will to create what I desire, I ask for what I want and some people call that prayer, some people call it witchcraft

    I can create rain when it is dry and i can create sunshine if it is raining because even clouds are conscious beings - i know this and simply give specific requests. these are god-given abilities most people were born with, but choose not to utilize due to minds that are closed to such opportunities
  • andora said on Sep 24, 2008....
    I am in deep process putting this paradigm into a reality with my own form, first and foremost. which is why i do not try to manipulate the weather much at all, i instead, moved to a place where the weather is the way i want it. my daughter and i just bought a farm in a location in the hawaiian islands that has not suffered drought as the other regions have over the past 10 years!. that's not magic but it is an answer to my prayers simply because i knew what i wanted and dedicated my life to the outcome. bc i live in a personal and intimate world it is created by a personal being that i relate to and co-create with.

    i pray as if it all depends upon God and work as though it all depends upon me. this is working.

    last week 3 people told me that what ever i was doing it was working. i hadn't seen either of them for years and they both said i looked 15 years younger. it is working for me whether you wish to believe this or not. i am grateful that small minded people cannot tell me what is or isn't real anymore...i simply do not allow it!
  • monkeyboyx said on Sep 24, 2008....
    If this is all there is and death is forever why bother with it all? With that thinking once you are dead It won't matter to you because you are dead and the thought process is long gone. There is a life after this one on a different vibrational plane. Prayer is real for those who  love God. This is my hope,dream and belief.
  • thunderpussy said on Sep 24, 2008....
    Prayer works 4 me  ( Paris...you are a SKANK!)
  • freebird1 said on Sep 24, 2008....
    Staying on topic i believe prayer works only for those who believe.
  • Antimatter said on Sep 24, 2008....
    On the flip side, if you're guaranteed a blissful life "on a different vibrational plane" after you die, why would you bother with this life at all?
  • Antimatter said on Sep 24, 2008....

    Staying on topic i believe prayer works only for those who believe.

    That's disappointing.

  • hugecock! said on Sep 24, 2008....
    chicks act as though my "thing" is god like!
  • McCain said on Sep 24, 2008....
    You will pray to me when I become Americas god
  • SARAH_PALIN said on Sep 24, 2008....
    it may not be like yours but i get into the prayer thing. Right now McCain leads me in prayers over "HARVY WALLBANGERS". I didn't pray untill i was running for office, but i think i should now.
  • Obama said on Sep 24, 2008....
    Just so you know..I am not a MUSLIM! Prayer is very important to me, as is Jesus Christ. I believe in the power of prayer!
  • phoeby said on Sep 24, 2008....
    prayer focuses our intent and energy and also hands over control to another part of ourselves which is source/god/goddess whatever you want to call it. It's not a separate part of us as many christians would have us believe. it's who we really are. so when we pray or talk to it, we are acknowledging that there is here, our spiritual self. 

    More significant is the willingness to suspend thought. (which includes prayer). And accessing that stillness within us. that is where all healing, all wisdom, all knowledge, all knowing resides.


  • mixednuts said on Sep 24, 2008....

    PHOEBY had a good message+

    I think God is accepting something far greater than ourselves.

    What Walter put in was great as well.

    All the replies were good accept the obvious few.

  • repeat said on Sep 24, 2008....
    i have a hard time believing in prayer
  • locater said on Sep 24, 2008....
    we all want prayer to work, but I just don't see it happening
  • RollingC said on Sep 24, 2008....
    No it's not disappointing that prayers are only for those who believe....they're the only ones praying to begin with.  The ones that don't believe don't pray.
  • quietone said on Sep 24, 2008....

    Twyla ~ ah hahaha   you beat me to it! 

    Yes I do believe in prayer, there is great power in prayers.  Even if one who has little to no faith, prayer can work.  I also believe prayers are answered but not nescessarily the way we might think they would be.  God does have a sense of humor sometimes.. example: one prays for money and a big house... well, you just might get a monopoly game for christmas!

  • Twylarants said on Sep 24, 2008....
    Quiet ~ Lol! Somebody had to, right? Wasn't this post just begging for that video?
  • Lucytorial said on Sep 24, 2008....
    Alt city in here, smells kind of weird considering its the same smell over and over and over again.

    hi Twyla and Quiet.
  • Twylarants said on Sep 24, 2008....
    Lucy~ And this post was just begging for that, too!!
    What's the purpose of all these alts if not just to get on the featured posts page?
    And 863 views?? Pul-eeeze!!
  • kruuyai said on Sep 24, 2008....
    It always amazes me how many people, supposedly the "faithful" think of prayer as a means of asking for favors rather than connecting with the divine and opening themselves up to the flow of universal energy (known as the will of God in the terms of those of you who believe in such things).  I was once strongly rejected by a guy because I wasn't a "believer."  This guy spent a lot of time praying.  What kind of things did he pray for?  A new camera for Christmas was an example..
  • andora said on Sep 24, 2008....
    antimatter said:
    "On the flip side, if you're guaranteed a blissful life "on a different vibrational plane" after you die, why would you bother with this life at all?"


    yes, exactly

    religious peops seem to believe in sacrifice and living in hell as a loving test from the father before he rewards you with the perfect afterlife -

    it seems like a curious fixation upon death being the solution to life

    i have no idea what they are talking about

    you have to have genitals in order to go to heaven, why would anyone give them up for some fantasy that doesn't allow body to be part of. i love my body and have decided to go on living.

    EVEN ATHEISTS SCREAM "Oh God" when they are coming ;}
  • hellboundmercinary said on Sep 25, 2008....
    I noticed that while I was engulfed in my desire to practice witchcraft, I couldn't pray properly.  My thought process would break up and get disrupted by outside sources.  I was diagnosed with Schizophrenia.  I am seeing now that as I am becoming more open about Christianity, I am free from the disruptions and thought patterns being screwed up while I pray.  I am also noticing that I am being answered more as I pray.  I'm not getting the seemingly exact opposite anymore.  I am alleviated of pains that I would get while working as I am doing work at the church.  I think it's pretty amazing and neat actually.  Yes, I believe that prayer works when you aren't being at least partially possessed by something else. that doesn't want you to pray.  When you are protected from that it works rather well.
  • scipio said on Sep 25, 2008....
    Yes.
  • woman said on Sep 25, 2008....
    kru~I'm with you. I don't believe that prayer is to evoke some "God magic". For me prayer is to simply connect with God. To allow myself to be open to his love. I do not pray for things, for weather, for trivial anything. And when I pray for someone, I just ask God to be with them and hold them in his hands. I pray for strength to do his will. I pray for God to guide my children. I don't understand how prayer works but I do feel the love that comes with it. I feel the strength that God provides. When I pass, I look forward to a clearer understanding and believe it will be given to me. Prayer is a comfort in my life and I believe it has made a difference.
  • Mamie said on Sep 25, 2008....
    I do believe in the power of prayer, yes. It works every time. Mamie
  • PaigeLe'Editor said on Sep 25, 2008....

    I see our therapy is going well? Perhaps one day all of our personalities will finally integrate?

    Oh, and Ms. Yai?  That guy was wishing, not praying.

  • starchini said on Sep 25, 2008....

    Oh thank you so much overlord!  I appreciate that and welcome ech and every prayer sent my way! : )  Lordie knows i need them all : ) 

    I absolutly beleive in prayer and in God.  I find it so sad that so many people say they want to believe but that their prayers are never answered. 

    If u are alive and healthy, ur prayers have been answered.  God isnt here to lavish our existence with fancy things.  He knows whats best for us and we can pray for J.Lo's body and all the lambourginis in the world and God is just gonna laugh at us and think "my gosh, they really dont get it yet do they?"...Life isnt about extravagences and meaningless stuff.  Its about values and principles and needs.  Good people have good things happen to them, ill keep saying it till the day i die.  And u may think ur a good person but asking for such pitly things that cater to your ego make u greedy and vain.  And for all the "unanswered" prayers that were seemingly just and well deserving.  Just remember God has a plan.  U can pray till your blue in the face and i gaurantee God heard everyword u said.  But what u want and what he wants for u may be different.  So just open your eyes and listen up.  Bc EVERYONE PRAYERS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED,  it just may not have been YOUR answer.....sorry im being preachy, but im a bullheaded believer.  Luv all u guys!  : )

    ~Starchini

  • Antimatter said on Sep 25, 2008....

    "No it's not disappointing that prayers are only for those who believe....they're the only ones praying to begin with. The ones that don't believe don't pray."

    That's just it. I would pray if prayer worked. I tried it for many years, and it doesn't.

  • brook said on Sep 25, 2008....
    prayer is devotion to god. Praying to god gives softness to heart.

    -----------------------
    Brook

    <a href="http://www.shreevyshcorp.in" rel="dofollow">Shreevysh Corp</a>

  • GEORGEBUSHSUCKS said on Sep 25, 2008....

    PRAY THAT THE ELECTION COMES EARLY!

    OBAM WILL WIN SAYETH THE LORD!

  • andora said on Sep 25, 2008....
    to all you who believe god gave you free will, but chooses which prayer should come true, have a very strange god in deed!

    God gave every human being an electromagnetic light body. if our light body reciprocates the electric and the magnetic part of our being in our heart, then the body takes on magical qualities and the spirit has the ability to direct their experience as they desire, UNLESS THAT DESIRE I TO OVER-RIDE THE WILL OF OTHERS. in my opinion this last statement is the variable.

    Using our god given power to manipulate others if anti-life.

    Everyone who suppresses their authentic truth, for any reason is lying about who they are to the world. It is impossible for liars to get what they want...so they make up stories about some overlord that is vetoing their prayers. like-wise, if we pray for others, that also happen to be liars, our prayers for them will be inconsistent as well.

    when we give inconsistent messages to our world the world responds in like.
  • andora said on Sep 25, 2008....
    when we are split about whether or not there is a god, then our prayers are schizophrenic and contradictory

    aligning all parts of ourselves with what it is that we desire will give results that are only able to produce the self-concept of the person asking. in other words, if a person has conflicting feelings about what they are asking for, the prayer will be relative. this is why i began identifying my denials and replacing these unhealthy though-forms and emotions with what it is i actually desire - instead of, what it was i was afraid of getting.

    those who adopt death with all of their hearts and pray for good health are also giving very mixed messages. how does your god deliver if you say "I want to be healthy while I am dying". strange but very normal

    GOD GAVE HUMANITY THE ABILITY TO BE PRO-CREATIVE GOD'S IN OUR OWN RIGHT. this does not mean that I believe I am God, it means that God gave me free will to create what i desire.

    my task is to make sure that i do not lie for any reason - because my God let me know that I do not have to lie in order to survive
  • andora said on Sep 25, 2008....
    TO THOSE OF YOU THAT WANT TO DISCOUNT MY VOICE BECAUSE YOU ACCUSE ME OF BEING SOME ALT that is messing up this board...don't you wish my voice was the voice of a liar, then you wouldn't have to give any credence to what i say. But i know that you are liars because you admit it every time you with-hold your truth because you are afraid of being unpopular. I got news for you, the real person you actually are IS unpopular with you, which is why you deny it and try even harder to be nice. LIARS
  • andora said on Sep 25, 2008....
    THIS BOARD WOULD BE MUCH MORE INTERESTING AND DYNAMIC IF YOU WOULD ONLY BRING YOUR WHOLE SELVES TO SHARE.

    WHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO LOSE FOR GOD SAKE, THIS BOARD IS ANONYMOUS!

    most of you lie at home, so you have to come here to lie to strangers. in this way you seem to validate your lies....but, you are still miserable at home. so there seems to be this revolving door of stuck patterns of denial begging for attention. to me, few of you seem real.

    the ones that are fall out pretty fast
  • StupidGenius said on Sep 25, 2008....

    Andora you need to wake up, grow up and get a real life. You live in La La Land at the moment. You can’t make it rain, you can’t make it sunny, and to say you can is pure and utter stupidity. You really are the dumbest person I have ever spoken to in my life (and I have spoken to some pretty dumb people) I think you are deluded beyond help and will certainly live your days truly believing a god has chosen you to manipulate his weather for him. You have a plank of wood for a brain and I doubt you are even able to dress yourself in the morning let alone walk etc. You have a truly warped mind and should seek urgent help.

    If I didn’t think you were serious then I would laugh my ass off! Please for the sake of humanity don’t go near, speak or look at any member of the public ever again. You will lead them to commit suicide just so they don’t have to listen to the utter bullshit that shoots out of your mouth in all directions.

    You are the definition of the term Dick Head.

    To the rest of you, prayer does not work, it’s that simple. The sooner you stop asking god to help you and do things for yourselves the better. Get a Grip people.

    SG

  • Lucytorial said on Sep 25, 2008....
    Yes, the therapy seems to be going very well indeed!
  • RollingC said on Sep 25, 2008....
    Andora....
    If you mean the real anonymous fall out real fast...well...not all.  I'm still here after a couple of years (can't believe it's been that long already).
    There would seem to be alts here but...who cares?....as long as it don't get to you.
    I applaud your efforts to clear the air.
    :^)
    Rc

  • Twylarants said on Sep 25, 2008....
    Rolling~ you think she's clearing the air? I think she's selling her product. She doesn't discuss, she argues. She's not here for any other reason than to promote pangasm by telling everyone just how wrong they are about everything. Did you watch her video? This is a real nutjob. Most of us lie at home? She knows we're liars?

    SHE CLAIMS TO BE ABLE TO MAKE IT RAIN FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!
    You don't think that's a tad fruitcakey?
  • mixednuts said on Sep 26, 2008....

    a few comments are off topic, but that's ok

    I'll go pray about that NOW!!

  • RollingC said on Sep 26, 2008....
    No I didn't watch her video....and neither did I read her correctly....
    Heh....most of us lie at home....she must be speaking for herself then....I'll have to remind myself not to read and comment while sleepy...

    I just realized she claims to have moved to Hawaii ? Doesn't it rain there quite often... surrounded by a huge ocean and in the tropic zone ?
    You're right...I think her noodle is wet.

    I stand corrected Twy.

    Rc
  • andora said on Sep 26, 2008....
    twyla said:
    " Rolling~ you think she's clearing the air? I think she's selling her product"

    i guess you are speaking out your ass with this impotent slight twyla...

    pangasm is published on the net for free

    honestly, i believe this information should be available and free. I mostly speak directly to suicidal people about considering a different perspective. at least they are no longer in denial of the death urge - which is hard wired into all those who adopt death, or even nothingness as the end result of living

    i definitely know i am speaking to the inappropriate audience for panGasm, but, I came here to communicate my truth, not yours. then i see all this posturing and senseless topics, i get irritated and lash out.

    whoever said that i lie at home are only partially right...when i lived in an abusive and violent marriage i kept my mouth shut...i studied how to be non-existent...my recovery from all of that was built on being honest at all cost as if my life depends upon it - because it does

    leading a life of half-truths that posture for acceptence is equal to selling ones soul. many here do not believe they even have a soul. same shit different day type of trance. whatever. i point this out because the norm being practiced here - on an anonymous blog no less - denies the negative polarity in favor of being acceptable

    AS A DEMON FROM THE DARK POLARITY OF THE FEMININE MAGNETIC REALM i will tell you that the denied negativity in your jobs, homes, government, religion and schools is seeping out of the edges of your neat little picture of the american dream...your kidds want to kill each other and you call it normal

    i have just so much patience for this considering that i work , free of charge communicating about the rammifications of continuing down this path. when it occurs, you all act surprised and then attempt to direct blame...when i point this out you blame me for being negative, judgmental and of course, your favorite...insane. that doesn't change the fact that you all call lying a form of love. communicating with that is very distasteful.


    you call the lack of intimacy God's will for you

    and those of you who are so cynical that intimacy is impossible - you even give up the possibility of being intimate with your surroundings and own body.

    my intent miss twyla is that all people could be healthy and enjoy intimacy. if i was trying to sell something i'd rather work...which i do ardently...for myself...

    sucks to be the living dead
  • Twylarants said on Sep 26, 2008....
    Then all you have to do is write about it, Andora. Post your beliefs on your blog and wait. If people are interested, if they want to know more about it, they'll comment on your post.  Instead, you choose to attack people you don't even know on their posts. You talk to hear yourself talk.
    MeMy isn't the first person you've gone after with this stupid crap, and this isn't the first time I've called you on it.
    Oh, and no one said that you lie at home. These are your words:
    "most of you lie at home, so you have to come here to lie to strangers. in this way you seem to validate your lies..."
    Try to remember what you said, moron.

  • RollingC said on Sep 26, 2008....
    I wonder who she reminds me of......
  • Lucytorial said on Sep 26, 2008....
    An amoeba ? perhaps? maybe? I think Fraud would be utterly in love with her.
  • scipio said on Sep 27, 2008....

    Here we go again. Discussing a sensitive issue which I am sure will remain unanswered to anyone's satisfaction.

  • andora said on Sep 27, 2008....
    dearest,

    wouldn't the world just love it if the demons would behave....go away...come back when you are nice you mean and heartless moron

    Mwa Ha Ha Ha


  • andora said on Sep 27, 2008....
    anyway...the power of prayer

    kruuyai said:

    "It always amazes me how many people, supposedly the "faithful" think of prayer as a means of asking for favors rather than connecting with the divine and opening themselves up to the flow of universal energy"

    this, to me, is a classic example of the confusion that desire meets with in the mainstream psyche...he or she seems to think that wanting things is a wrong use of prayer

    every word you say and every step you take is a communion with the divine. most religionists think the divine gave us free will. wouldn't it make sense that the function of free will is to take its lead from what it is we desire as individuals with a Will?

    when there is a specific item that i desire, i simply say it out loud. to be clear and specific with the creation that is attempting to fulfill my desire.

    the statement above proves that kruuyai and many others have labeled desire as self-serving or not in line with the divine sugar daddy most christians believe in

    i will not bore you with the countless stories of results that i get, bc you hate it that i have so many success stories to talk about....you don't really want to hear from anyone that is extraordinary because it suits you to feel correct in choosing self-rejection as a pious and oh so selfless (and therefore good) lifestyle.

    wake up and smell the trouble that comes from rejecting ones own desire in the name of some strange cult you call religion!


  • StupidGenius said on Sep 27, 2008....

    Andora - You claim to be special by being able to make it rain etc. It is you that needs to wake up. Do you hear your bedside alarm ringing.... Wake Up Sleepy Head!

    SG

  • Lemon_Party said on Sep 27, 2008....


  • andora said on Sep 27, 2008....
    twyla said:
    Then all you have to do is write about it, Andora. Post your beliefs on your blog and wait. If people are interested, if they want to know more about it, they'll comment on your post.  Instead, you choose to attack people you don't even know on their posts."

    i thought this was mixnuts blog and we were all having a conversation about prayer...

    no one said you have to enjoy my comments my dear
  • andora said on Sep 27, 2008....
    yes, SG we have all had our times to wake up and smell the shit we had created with our  Free Will...been there, done that

    now i get to share results that come from stepping out of the box and learning how to live without superstition, guilt or oppression. yes, i gloat to be sure...i'm grateful to say the least

    praise Allah



  • andora said on Sep 27, 2008....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhxDV7KjTlU
  • lionesss said on Sep 27, 2008....
    i dnt actually, too many times iv asked for the power from above and its always let me down im sorry to say :)x
  • andora said on Sep 27, 2008....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhxDV7KjTlU
  • andora said on Sep 27, 2008....
    there, that's better i was getting accused of being the same as ALT...seriously, i really don't have time to play that kind of game kiddies

    but as you can see by my link above,

    i was thinking of you all while at the beach today...even took my camera so we can get the accusations of dishonesty out of the way here, because I am not here to waste my time with pranks...so i presented myself to my adoring friends here..

    00000000000000hugs00000000000000
  • andora said on Sep 27, 2008....
    yes lioness, i can understand your disappointment

    but,

    when you call on the powers from all four corners, then the fun begins:]

    www.pangasm.org

  • Roseceline said on Sep 28, 2008....
    Prayer do works.. Even Jesus does it.. But if you pray, its not just about you say something or ask anything..  Its about Faith.. and how you believe and claim that you will receive it.. God is looking on a faithful heart.. As Jesus said.. If You believe and remain in Him.. Ask whatever you want and whatever you need in HIS NAME and it will given unto you.. His word are clear.. what we need is to have faith and believe..

    "We always ask GOD to GIVE us signs and miracles to deepen our faith, but would it be nice to be aware that JESUS is the sign and you are the MIRACLE OF HIS LOVE.."

    _Prayer moves God into action.. When we call ,God promises to answer! the power of prayer can change our life..

    God answer PRAYERS in 3 WAYS:
    1. YES,and He gives you what you want..
    2.NO, and He gives you something better..
    3. WAIT, and He gives you the best.. in His perfect time..
    God bless..!
  • mixednuts said on Sep 29, 2008....
    I keep waiting for a certain prayer to be answered, but faith does not come easy.
  • andora said on Sep 29, 2008....
    the famed metaphysical healer, Evelyn Monahan, who healed herself of blindness said:

    "it is time to remove the cloak of pessimism that has come from living a life of disappointment"

    1st Corinthians 15:50 - 52

    "Now I tell you, my brothers, our bodies of flesh and blood can have no place in the kingdom where God rules. A body, which will die can have no room in the kingdom of God where people will never die. Listen! I tell you a secret. We will not all die, but we will all be changed. It will happen very quickly, as fast as one can shut his eyes. It will be when the trumpet or horn is blown the last time. Someone will blow the trumpet, dead people will rise, and they will never die again. We ourselves will be changed. This body which dies must become a body which will never die."

    this is a quote directly from the judeo-christian congregation...strange thing about christians, they either don't read their own holy book, or they do not have faith in its predictions about life on Earth.

    i appreciated your comments roseceline

    this has been my experience as well,

    when my oldest daughter and I asked for 50 acres, we instead were given 100 acres (just so no one is confused...i said we had 36 acres to farm...but we also have 60 acres to reforest above it)...when escrow closed we were celebrating the success of the prayer we had made together 10 years ago..then we realized we were given twice as much as we prayed for. our interpretation of this was that there were indeed two of us asking for 50 acres. this is a great example of number 1, 2 and 3

    I love this

    I am a grateful woman

    blessings
  • StupidGenius said on Sep 29, 2008....

    Andora I just watched your video and am now completely convinced you are addicted to crack. It was like someone trying to explain a mid high delusion. What you were saying was actually quite funny simply because it was so stupid. I don’t care if you want to sell something, I don’t care where you live or what you look like. The point that I start to care is when you fill a blog with absolute nonsense.

    Your video does nothing to help your argument; it destroys it all in one go. I really do feel sorry for the people where you live. They don’t realise they have a mental case living close by.

    Would you like the number for a local rehab?

    SG

  • andora said on Sep 29, 2008....
    never cared for white drugs or any drugs that were made in a lab by someone i do not know

    so that blows your theory

    its okay if you do not understand what i am saying Stupid Genius...its not for everybody anyway...there is a class of people that hate their body so very much that they do not think that living with it forever would be enjoyable...i completely agree with them...if you are fubar 'ed, and believe you are powerless to get your body to be beautiful and orgasmic...then death is welcomed by the disabled and the ugly. they are not my problem!

    but for those who desire life, health and beauty there are many options that you were not told about. I speak to them, wherever you are

    whether you like it or not is immaterial to me...sucks to be the living dead, huh SG? ;]
  • StupidGenius said on Sep 29, 2008....

    Andora, I recognise what you just wrote is made up words from the English language but the content is utter crap yet again LOL.

    I watched your video on you tube, I then watched the other one where you were trying to act all sexy and dominant but I got to tell ya... It weren’t that great luv. You need to work on the acting a little bit more, it was terrible! I know you are going for the "Dom Female leather and chains" and all that crap but it isn’t working.

    So to summarise Bad Acting + Talking shit = A Dumbo trying to sound intelligent.

    You are real funny tho, post more videos the last one gave me a real laugh!!

    SG

  • andora said on Sep 29, 2008....
    thanks SG

    actually, i didn't realize i was tapping into the doministress industry...i was surprised when the only people who responded to me wanted to play those games. when my video was relegated to that smut corner I actually found out what that industry was, as a result!

    so, i claim innosence in that department my friend...although it is tempting to play along with all that trash, its not my style

    panGasm is not about perversion

    if you actually read it you would understand...but you would rather critisize something you are not qualified to comment upon...

    PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE REAL NATURE OF THE DARKNESS AND WHAT IT IS TRYING TO OFFER THEM.....instead they go down dead end roads of perversion

    SUCKS TO BE THE LIVING DEAD TRYING DESPERATELY TO FEEL ANYTHING AT ALL AFTER THEY ASSASSINATE THAT PART OF THEMSELVES

    people like pusscat and lucytorial give sex a sleazy and bad name after all

    if that's what they have to do for attention, so be it...doesn't mean i will stoop to that level!
  • andora said on Sep 29, 2008....
    to all the voyeurs here who hate my voice and my message,

    I was telling my lover about the site today and how it was affecting me...he suggested that i come back under another name

    i was surprised to hear him say that, bc he knows me

    to all those who are interested in my voice and my message,

    i promise not to play those kind of games with you here, honesty is more important to me than popularity. i can promise you that i will not change my name or make up bogus names to join in my conversation to stroke my ego...i'm andora...the REAL andora....

    aloha and mahalo to both my detractors and fans - it takes all kinds to make the world go round and i am all about opening this blog up to that type of diversity
  • andora said on Sep 29, 2008....
    so thanks mixednuts for keeping your blog open

    aloha
  • starchini said on Sep 30, 2008....
    Andora there is only one God, just so u know...
  • StupidGenius said on Sep 30, 2008....

    starchini - What the hell are you talking about? There is only one god? Do you know something that the whole of humanity has been unable to prove for the last 2000 odd years? If you have some proof of your claim then lets hear it...didn’t think so.

    Grow up

    Andora - You are a "Try Hard" you really do want to seem intelligent, open minded and spiritually enlightened but in the end you are the same as the rest of the delusional multitudes. You think you have the answer but you don’t. You think you know the truth but you don’t. There is a reason why paganism or pangasm is not popular and that’s because it is pretty clear it is rubbish. Im an atheist so if you can prove you are right and you have some kind of connection with the universe that others don’t then I will convert on the spot. Lets hear it luv.

    SG

  • starchini said on Oct 01, 2008....

    StupidInfant...I dont need proof...There is only one God... 

    Just because u are void of faith in God doesnt mean I need to be and my belief certainly doesnt make me not a grown up...

    Love,

    The Grown Up  : P 

  • StupidGenius said on Oct 01, 2008....

    If you say so starchini. If you are going to make a claim like "there is only one god" then give everyone the benefit of your amazing intelect. If you make a claim then prove it otherwise say something sensible or shut up.

    Form an argument or shut up. Make sense or shut up. Prove your claim or, yes you guessed it... Shut Up.

    I might disagree with people on here but at least most of them have a point of view and argument for their point of view.

    SG

  • lionesss said on Oct 01, 2008....
     Andora......... I think its totally unfair to speak about my bestest,dearset friend as you did, you know nothing about her as a person, pusscat never does anyhting to acttract attention to her self she is writing post for all to read and if you dnt like it dnt read it, there is no need to say what you did  also lucy you say the same about,oh well,'~lionesss :)xx
  • starchini said on Oct 02, 2008....

    Stupid, there is a thing called tact to get people to do what u want.  When u approach things like a neandrothal being offensive telling me to shutup calling me stupid and whatever other blither your spouting.  U rarely if ever achieve your goal.  All u succeed in doing is making yourself look like an idiot and the other person only want to piss u off more...Bc u are so rude, I most certainly will not shutup.  And will say there is only one God every gosh dang day for the rest of my life shouting it from the rooftops for all to here.  And i will most certainly not give an explanation.  That is the entire point of a "faith" after all.  Its easy to have faith in something when u can prove its real.  Any idiot can believe in God if there is freakin proof.  But only those with strong will and strong faith have the power to whole heartedly believe in God and require not one little shred of proof.  I truly feel sorry for ur weak heart. 

    P.S. 

    There is only one God.  : )

     

  • Antimatter said on Oct 06, 2008....

    There is only one god.

    Mr. Deity

  • StupidGenius said on Oct 06, 2008....

    starchini - You can shout it all you like I don’t really care. You are the one who made the first stupid comment out of the two of us

    "Andora there is only one God, just so u know..."

    I also don’t want to convince you of anything, I don’t need to. You are free to believe anything you want to. The point that it becomes a problem is when you try to teach it to my children, Build political agenda around it and push it in the faces of those who chose not to follow your delusional path.

    Think for a moment, this is what you are effectively saying...

    "Mummy I have an imaginary friend, you can’t see him, hear him or prove he exists but he does."

    Nobody has to prove that god exists other than those who claim his existence. When you are able to either have a conversation or show some evidence to support your claim then I will listen. Until then Shut up.

    SG 

  • starchini said on Oct 06, 2008....
    wow i feel sorry for ur children.  Teaching them there is no God...shouldnt they decide that for themselves?  It just seems kinda mean to send them to hell from birth...just because u didnt believe.  So do u just think u are worm food when u die?  No heaven no hell we just inhabit the earth and exist for no reason at all?  How did we get here?  The big bang i supose...I think believing in God makes far more "sense" than to not.  If i didnt believe in God or if my parents taught me there was no God I would forever wonder how i got here and who was the first and how we just became from nothing..And most importantly what the point of life is and why the hell we are here...
  • RollingC said on Oct 06, 2008....
    Gee Star....I wonder what the difference between animals and humans are...for after all we are animals also right ?
    Why are there social codes of conduct ?
    Who taught us or started that train of thought I wonder ?      
    Animals have codes of conduct also but geared for survival only.

    I could go on but I've had it with arguing with an echo....I applaud your efforts but don't waste your time.
    Rc
  • StupidGenius said on Oct 07, 2008....

    Starchini - Prove or define hell?

     "It just seems kind of mean to send them to hell from birth...just because u didn’t believe."

    My kids will be taught facts and they will be taught to question things they don’t understand. You will teach that if they don’t believe in god then they are going to hell or if they don’t do as you say then they are going to hell. That’s probably the way Catholic Priests got young boys to allow the sexual abuse they “bestowed” upon them! So in order for your teaching to work you have to make threats. My kids will learn and grow, yours will be stuck in the dark ages and have no need to ask life’s big questions because you have already placed a supernatural being in all the gaps in understanding.

    With regards to your "worm food" comment, how about you prove heaven and hell. How about you prove god exists, how about you prove all the things that your religion claims. You have "Blind Faith" how about you try using that blind faith to cure cancer, cure aids etc. Don’t go to hospital when you are ill, get god to cure it.

    Rolling - I can answer the questions you just asked if you like, in fact lets not talk about your faith any more, how about you both ask me questions on what I believe and then you two can criticise me?

    SG

  • starchini said on Oct 07, 2008....

    God cures cancer all the time stupid.  Doesnt mean people shouldnt go to dr's stupid.  Going to hell for not believing in God isnt a threat, its just teaching the facts stupid.  What are your kids learning and growing for?  What is there end result?  Not having any faith is like walking the earth with no destination stupid.  I find it amazing how people believe and rarely question what they see on the news and read in the papers and magazines but need proof that what is in the bible is real.  U say that people who believe in God dont ask lifes big question bc faith is the answer to it all.  Tell me what ur answers to lifes big questions are being a non believer?  How does an antichrist explain to his children how human existence became?  How does the antichrist explain to his children what happens to them when they die?  I imagine raising a child to have no imagination and no faith in anything and to only accept factual provable data and nothing else, would be raising a very sad empty child.  What would they have to look forward to? Im trying to imagine myself in your shoes and it breaks my heart.  To not believe in anything...so sad. 

  • starchini said on Oct 07, 2008....
    In response to what u said to rolling stupid...what do u mean ask u questions about what u believe?  U dont believe in anything...U just accept facts, thats not a belief.  So we cant criticize your beliefs, u have none...all u have are facts...And i believe it is u that is criticising me.  Im just asking questions and defending my own beliefs.  It is u asking me for proof when u know good and damn well there is none.  It is u trying to make me look stupid and feeble.  Not i.  I am just trying to understand u.  And i think me being a faithful follower of God, am incapable of that.  Good luck to you in the end times.  I hope satan takes it easy on you, u are only human.  Me ill be in heaven, thanking God that my parents instilled faith and taught me about the lord...otherwise i very well may have been ignorant and ended up like u.  Again, im very sorry for your loss and may God bless you. 
  • starchini said on Oct 07, 2008....

    Oh rolling, ur right its a means to no end.  I cant make someone see the light.  I just feel immense pity.  I mean at the very very least you would think if someone was presented with two options, one damns them, and the other is their salvation.  I would not question it.  In the most animalistic sense i would atleast cover my own but and think "gee, i dont know weather i believe in God or not, but if not believing damns me, why not believe? I would much rather believe in something and it be false than to require facts and turn my back on the lord because there was no physical evidence and be satans bitch for eternity...fuck no sweat of my back, even if there is no hell, i certainly am not gonna wager eternity on it."....this ofcourse is not my belief, i 110% believe in God and am not afraid of hell because i know that is not my destination...but if i was in SG shoes, i certainly question is gambling skills...

  • StupidGenius said on Oct 07, 2008....

    Starchini

    Most people would be amazed at what you just wrote. They would be amazed that someone could actually write the things you just did and really believe them at the same time. I am not.

    I have spoken to many religious people like you for many years. It may give you comfort to know that you are just as deluded as all the others I have spoken to. The only difference is that you really do have no argument other than "Your damed if you dont and ok if you do".

    I see you are only 21 maybe a little older now but you are showing the normal signs of inbred dogma. Your parents have brainwashed you and you regurgitate that brainwashing mantra to all who will listen. It is I who pity you. Your life is no better than mine; your behaviour is no better than mine. you morals are no better than mine. Atheists are capable of being nice human beings like anyone else but you seem to think that is not possible.

    Lets look at what you just said

    "Going to hell for not believing in God isn’t a threat, its just teaching the facts stupid."

    "It is u asking me for proof when u know good and damn well there is none."

    So there is no "proof" but you are teaching the "Facts". You might want to look up in a dictionary what those words mean.

    "How does an antichrist explain to his children how human existence became?"

    Go to a library and get a book called "Origin of species" by Charles Darwin. Read up on evolution. These two combined will help you understand where we come from. 

    "I would not question it.  In the most animalistic sense i would at least cover my own but and think "gee, I don’t know weather i believe in God or not, but if not believing damns me, why not believe?"

    I don’t want to go to heaven if it exists, I don’t want to live in a place where I am ruled by a supernatural being that will judge and control me for all eternity. North Korea is a perfect example of what it would be like in Heaven. You would be bound to worship "god" all day, everyday. You would have to do what ever he said and do it when ever he told you to and going on the things he did in the old testament im not sure you should be putting your faith in a racist, megalomaniac murderer. Im not sure you have read the bible. Anyone who reads the bible should at some point say "I don’t think this god character is actually that great, he just instructed the murder of a whole town including all the women and children.

    One last thing...

    "God cures cancer all the time stupid.  Doesnt mean people shouldnt go to dr's stupid."

    Show me one instance in the history of the world where it can be proven that god cured someone’s cancer? If you can show that he can cure disease then why go to the doctor? Just pray to god and he will cure you. Some how I don’t think your "Blind Faith" will stretch that far. Give it a try. Really put your faith in god.

    Quit your job and pray for god to get you work (Do not look for work or apply for any jobs and see how many offers you get)

    Give all your money away and then prey that god will provide you with the funds to buy food (Don’t ask for food, beg or steal. Your god will provide it for you)

    Next time you are really ill, don’t do anything. Don’t take any medication, simply wait for god to cure you.

    Truly put your faith in god and see how far it gets you.

    SG
  • RollingC said on Oct 07, 2008....
    I'm tempted to accept your invitation SG but we have to agree on certain rules of conduct and of course it would apply to both of us.
    I'm not interested in proving you or anybody else wrong at all simply because I'm not interested. 
    I got better things to do with my time than prove or disprove someone right or wrong specifically in matters of faith...which to me is something very personal.
    However....I am interested in learning and also setting some internal questions that I have to rest.  Or at least exploring them further even if just out of my own curiosity.
    I have a different proposition for you....
    Would you discuss portions of the Bible with me....?
    It would allow me to " read between the lines " so to speak, and by doing that I hope to get a deeper and better understanding of the text.  And with two people discussing it...each with opposing views even....it would help me in the end to understand better.  
    I don't want you to think that I'm trying to convert you and actually I may be giving you more ammunition to discuss things but I'm confident in my faith and as long as we respect each other..... I believe it would prove an interesting exercise, let alone experience.
    The rules would basically be respect of one another and sticking to the text and subject in discussion.
    Also we might even develop a deep respect for one another..( imagine that ).
    I would actually be willing to start my own blog on this.
    Would you be interested?
     
    Rc
  • lidstrom82 said on Oct 08, 2008....
    Prayer is an interesting thing. Usually when it's approached as a Christmas list or a spiritual lotto ticket, it is NOT going to benefit anyone. We're all selfish at some point or another, so I don't think we're harming ourselves to ask for superfluous things, but if we want to know any god better, we should know what the person of that god is, because depending on it, stuff we ask for could be applicable or completely foolish.

    Example: if you're praying to the God of the Bible to appear out of thin air to prove His existence to you, it's not going to work. Why? The Bible says that no one can look upon God and live; His presence is too great. Thus, if you don't understand the nature of God, you're going to ask for things that you wouldn't have if you knew Him. Besides, God did appear to us in different ways in the Old Testament, and as Jesus, as the prime example. That's good enough for some people, and not good enough (or not true) for others.

    I find that friends of mine who understand God very well, know precisely what to ask for, and thus they see prayers answered in powerful ways. They're not like kids walking into a bank and asking a teller for free money, naive about how things work; they understand that the best things God can give them are virtues like compassion and love for others, not material things.

    Sometimes, you can ask for something that you personally do NOT need, and it will be given to you anyway. For me, it was a girlfriend. It happened as I asked, out of nowhere, but once the opportunity came, I pursued it and made it happen. Was it good for me? Not at all...I made every mistake in the book. Eventually I started praying that the bad things that happened would somehow be turned into good results, that positive lessons would come out of a troubled relationship. That also happened, and it also paved the way for my married life.

    Was God part of it? I believe so, because I could tell the difference between what my decisions were between praying and not praying.

    But most of all, prayer as described in the Bible is incredibly wise, because it asks to know God and to serve Him better, instead of asking for material things that won't last, things we can't take with us when we die. The Bible also explains a great many things that offer wisdom if we are open to it. Some of us aren't, and that's ok; we all have to make decisions about spirituality in our lives. Let it be known though, that anyone who rejects prayer obviously doesn't spend time trying to understand how it works or who to pray to; as a result, they have no idea what they're talking about when they denounce it.
  • starchini said on Oct 09, 2008....
    Your right, I havnt read the bible.  To be honest i find it painfully boring.  I know what i need to know.  I believe that people need to help themselves.  God gave us brains and the power of thought and logic and he intended us to use them.  Yes God cures cancer all the time.  Sure there is always some sort of scientific evidence and twisted "reasons" why.  But people are scientifically given so many weeks to live all the time.  And then miraculously against all odds the cancer has gone into remission and they are granted ten + more years of life.  Dr.'s are baffled by this all the time.  Sure they may say "well ur such and such immunities have gone up and blah blah tumor shrunk, uhh bc of this dealie mabob there".  But what they really think is "wow, this mo fo should be dead"...  Miracles like this happen everyday and people like u want to over analyze bc for some reason the idea of a God is rediculous to u and u must find a scientific explanation.  Well God created our bodies and decided how they would work.  Yes he cures us all the time against all odds.  Yes dr.  Have been baffled and shocked at how people miraculousy recover.  They give a half baked reason to sound smart.  But they dont really know.  And as far as me saying there is no proof of god's existence but if u dont believe in God u will in fact go to hell.  I dont need to look at a dictionary.  I meant what i said.  Its fact because there is zero doubt in my mind.  U know anyone can go to thatonline dictionary type page and add a definition of anyone.  Its always given to us as fact.  But do they really check?  No...We are fed facts daily but its always just what some scientists said.  U know very little of anything as fact.  U just read it was a fact bc so and so proved it.  Where u there?  No.  Did u actually see evolution happen?  No.  Did u look at pictures and read about someone elses findings?  Yes.  People lie, fabricate, and make shit up all the time stretching a small part of the truth into a mile long tale.  Scientists are proven wrong all the time.  In general Scientists have given us FACTS, and other scientists have proved them wrong.  What was it about eggs?  Before eggs were great for us and we should eat them by the dozen for protein.  Then it was no no stay away from eggs too much cholesterol dont ever eat those artery clogging things.  Now its, all in moderation.  So on and so forth.  What is fact now will be proven false later.  God is constant.  His stories and claims havnt changed sense the dawn of time.  Just because u are told something is a fact doesnt mean it really is.  U seem to be all about seeing is believing and if i cant touch it its not real...Well u should be more careful when u faithfully believe what science tells u.  U put faith in science like i do in God.  They preach what they think they discover as fact...u read about it and believe it.  But u dont really know. 

    Anyways im bored with this.  U dont know what u are talking about and neither do i.  We both very well could be wrong about everything.  U can go to hell and i may just spend eternity in a dirt pit. 

    I just know what I believe.  I believe in God and I believe in Heaven.  I believe Antichrist/Athiests are in for a rude awakening.  I believe everyone has their own heaven and it is not what u describe, enslaved to God, puh, thats rediculous.  Heaven is whatever u want it to be. 
     
    You can believe whatever u want, but i prolly be seeing u in heaven.  : P 
    Good luck in having faith in science. 
    These are the same guys that spend millions of dollars curing limp cock, instead of cancer...Yea, they are far wiser than God. 
     
  • Antimatter said on Oct 09, 2008....

    You really have no idea how science works, starchini. That's probably why you don't understand our trust in scientific conclusions.

    When a doctor gives a life expectancy estimate for a terminally ill patient, he's not writing their future in stone. That's stilly; the doctor can never predict the future with perfect accuracy. The doctor is actually saying that, statistically speaking, patients in the same situation in the past have lived X weeks on average. Some died sooner, and some died later. A small minority have even recovered, but you'll only find these "miracles" in certain classes of diseases. If god really is behind these unexpected recoveries, he doesn't favor people who are religious, he doesn't favor people for whom others have prayed, and he never heals people with certain other classes of conditions.

    As for the rest of your comment, you frequently confuse wikis on the internet and scientific journalism in mainstream press with peer-reviewed scientific journals. The latter is most reliable because the editors forward each submission to a lion's den of critical peers before publishing anything. That's how science corrects itself and weeds out false conclusions. Scientific journalism in mainstream press and wikis are not subject to the same rigorous review and such articles often exaggerate findings or misrepresent the results. (You mentioned the confusion over eggs.)

    We know evolution happened. We didn't have to be there; we can plainly see what the process left behind, including ourselves. We aren't blindly accepting the conclusions of others; if you read the literature you could verify the theory of evolution yourself. If the entire theory were fabricated by a vast global conspiracy of scientists, the whistleblower who debunked the theory would become an overnight household name, yet that hasn't happened.

    God may (allegedly) be constant, but his stories and claims certainly have changed since the dawn of time. In fact, they change rather frequently as new holy texts are created and new translations and interpretations of ancient ones rise to the surface. Unlike the rigor of science, these stories and claims are rarely subject to any critical review or verification process. Indeed, it seems that religious people just make them up.

  • StupidGenius said on Oct 09, 2008....

    Starchini all I have to say about your absolutely retarded rant is that you are happy to spend so much time taking the piss out of scientists but then just believe (Without Question) something you have been told about the universe by people who have no idea what they are talking about in the slightest... your parents. You are a very bad advert for them intellectually. I get the feeling that you must come from one of those Deep South bible-bashing communities where a trailer with a microwave is the latest high fashion status symbol. I think you need to educate yourself a little more. I really can’t respond to a load of crap seemingly from the mind of a four year old.

    Go to a L-I-B-R-A-R-Y and take out something called a B-O-O-K. You might then be in danger of actually learning something.

    Tell your parents they have done a very poor job unless they intended to reverse engineer a retard in which case they have done fantastically well!

    Good Luck with S-C-H-O-O-L I hope the other kids don’t tease you too much.

    SG

  • lidstrom82 said on Oct 09, 2008....
    Whether it's science or religion, people will accept things as fact if they sound good enough from a source they think is legit. That's just human nature - there's some bad knowledge out there that's accepted because it comes from "reputable" sources.

    Truthfully, I value a source of wisdom that appeals to all people, not just educated champions of science. I very much appreciate the pursuit of scientific knowledge, but I also know there's more to life than what we can prove by scientific methods. The value of meaningful relationships is something any true god would encourage for us, if that god indeed made us. Wouldn't they be THE authority on relationships, if they came up with the idea and created people to have them?

    It's simply not good enough to hear that if knowledge is improved upon and accumulated in the scientific realm, it's widely accepted, but if understanding religion changes and improves, it's seen as wishy washy. Case in point: we don't need to see evolution to know it happened...ok, couldn't religious people say the same for the origin of their beliefs?

    Not all religions are legit, of course, but we need to hold ourselves accountable to some standards. L. Ron Hubbard, as a science fiction author, created the whole "backstory" of Scientology and gets people hyped up on endorphins, creating couch-jumping scenes of weirdness. Most people can see through that...but if we see exhaustive genealogies and histories of the origins of civilization in the Bible, we call it boring.

    Which begs the question: what is "good enough" for us?

    It's not enough to have a religion that you can "pick and choose" beliefs as they fit you. Religion is not a giant store where you walk in and buy what you need, and ignore what you don't. Religion makes some pretty hefty claims, and thus it is an all or nothing endeavor. All noteworthy religions have at least a shred of truth, some more than others.

    Personally, I believe the Abrahamic religions are the most accurate, where Judaism grew from God's chosen people, Christianity was borne from the life of Jesus Christ, and Islam was adapted from both by Muhammed to unite the scattered and warring Arab nations of the first millennium A.D. God promised to bless the generations that came from Abraham, and that continues: Christianity is the largest religion in the world in terms of number of adherents, the people of Judaism are much more successful and influential than other populations of similar size, and Islam is experiencing aggressive growth.

    Are some people in each of those religions really whack about how they convey those beliefs? Of course! Just like there are a lot of arrogant, bullying atheists out there, sometimes the flaws of humanity distort a concept that would otherwise make a lot of sense. But the choice to follow and pray to a god is a personal one. And if a god is waiting for us on the other side, our personal choices would determine how that god receives us.

    In my personal opinion, prayer is at its best when used to seek God, and to genuinely bless other people.
  • kruuyai said on Oct 09, 2008....
    andora:  Hmmm, something to think about... I'm probably too tired to do this justice tonight, and obviously, I haven't been back to this thread for a long time, but I do get what you're saying, and still, there's a huge part of me that wants to mock the :"Oh God, help our team win the big game" mentality.  I think the difference is that what you seem to be talking about is tapping into our own power to create our own reality and make our desires manifest in our own lives through the power of our mind, which is a wonderful tool that is largely left unused by most of us.  And that, I see as fundamentally different from getting down on our knees and begging someone else to do it for us.  What do you think?
  • StupidGenius said on Oct 09, 2008....

    Lid

    Im just going to pick out a few bits of what you just said;

    "It's simply not good enough to hear that if knowledge is improved upon and accumulated in the scientific realm, it's widely accepted, but if understanding religion changes and improves, it's seen as wishy washy"

    Knowledge that is improved upon in the scientific realm is accepted because we know it is the result of many tests and re-tests of previous theories. We accept it as it is or we can go and look at the results for ourselves and in some cases we can even replicate the test and see the results. Understanding of religion improving doesn’t really mean anything because the foundation is flawed. How do you further understand something, which has no basis of truth or fact or even evidence?

    "Case in point: we don't need to see evolution to know it happened...ok, couldn't religious people say the same for the origin of their beliefs?"

    Evolution is proven, we have mountains of evidence to support it. The origins of religions can be seen through history but using that as supporting evidence for a god is crazy. 

    "Religion makes some pretty hefty claims, and thus it is an all or nothing endeavor."

    I agree, If you are Christian then follow the bible to the letter (old and new testament) if you are Muslim then follow the Koran to the letter etc. I just wonder how you feel about stoning adulterers or mass murder lid?

    "In my personal opinion, prayer is at its best when used to seek God, and to genuinely bless other people."

    Tell me lid, if you pray for something and you feel it has been answered do you feel guilty that it was answered? In my opinion you should. I repeat, if prayer worked then we would have world peace, no famine, no diseases and no childhood cancer or aids. Clearly we still have those things so I would summarise that prayer does not work unless you are telling me that god can only answer your prayer when you ask for a new car or for the volume on your neighbours stereo to stop working.

    SG

  • lidstrom82 said on Oct 09, 2008....
    SG, you just don't get it. The way your previous input has come across has led me to conclude that since you've made no bones about acting like a jerk getting your point across, I don't really think anyone should consider their spiritual beliefs because of what you say. If you don't respect people like starchini, or myself, what you say doesn't really carry weight. And personally, you don't have the right to tell me what to think or be guilty about. Your understanding of religion is bankrupt.

    Sorry SG, this post isn't really up your alley. :)


  • StupidGenius said on Oct 10, 2008....

    Lid, you can respond or you can avoid its up to you. Doesn’t bother me either way. Starchini got what was coming to her because she told me I was an antichrist and was going to hell. Maybe you should read a blog before you jump in without knowing the full story.

    Im also not bothered if people think im rude. You wont be the first to think me rude and you wont be the last. Ill not lose any sleep over it.

    Same old Lid, Made a statement and then avoided answering questions on it LOL

    SG

  • andora said on Oct 12, 2008....
    kruuyai said,
    "Hmmm, something to think about... I'm probably too tired to do this justice tonight, and obviously, I haven't been back to this thread for a long time, but I do get what you're saying, and still, there's a huge part of me that wants to mock the :"Oh God, help our team win the big game" mentality.  I think the difference is that what you seem to be talking about is tapping into our own power to create our own reality and make our desires manifest in our own lives through the power of our mind, which is a wonderful tool that is largely left unused by most of us.  And that, I see as fundamentally different from getting down on our knees and begging someone else to do it for us.  What do you think?"

    haven't been visiting much myself kruuyai...I am right there with you on most all of what you said above. Free Will is not about groveling to some angry or jealous god for favors, instead it is an opportunity to put your self-concept into form. THE MOST MISUNDERSTOOD ISSUE in the 'New Age' community's take on this is the part about the role of the 'Emotions' in creating what we desire or what we fear. the magnetic part of our lightbody is the emotions.

    AT THIS TIME, NEGATIVE EMOTIONS ARE DEMONIZED AND CASTIGATED TO HELL! when in fact, this is the part of us that is our power source. Not only is this a power source, it is our navigation and the negative emotions are our sirens when there is imbalance/denial. instead of deal with the imbalance, we have disengaged the siren that tells us imbalance is reaching critical stages.

    aloha kruuyai, thankyou for asking about this...i have been deeply misunderstood and maligned here for trying to get this across to all the nice folks ;}
  • andora said on Oct 12, 2008....
    yes, i was complaining about the 'crew', but all of the angst is - in my not so humble opinion - just a temporary reflection of what is happening in the world at large. The polarization is what ALWAYS happens when the electric is not talking to the magnetic and visa versa. The Battle of the Sexes is what we have been calling normal. There are alternatives and they are free and do not tie you to leaders, experts or authorities. this is why i was initially misunderstood here. most thought i was forcing my truth upon them , when i was attempting to help them understand that their truth is equally valid. only difference is my paradigm creates health and intimacy and the Battle of the Sexes creates estrangement.

    No one has to live as i do, but it would be helpful for people to know how to use what they were given to create freedom and health instead of slavery and boredom!

    feeling good today

    aloha
  • mixednuts said on Oct 12, 2008....
    Thanks all!
  • lidstrom82 said on Oct 12, 2008....
    What questions would you like me to answer, SG? I generally find that when I answer your questions, the answers appear inadequate, and generally to repeat myself over and over the same way is a good definition for insanity. :)

    I don't want to "avoid" you or put you down, but I'm not impressed when you do the same to others.

    Anyhoo, where I'll start is your question about prayer. Here's the point, SG: assuming humanity has inherent flaws and can't be perfect, you could indeed say it's inherently selfish to pray to a god. Assuming a "perfect" god created humanity, and humanity is capable of pretty inhumane behavior at times, what would we possibly ask of a perfect god that isn't selfish? Who are we to ask some all-powerful deity to take some time and answer us specifically?

    Further SG, what you're saying about feeling guilty about answered prayers is valid. It seems that you think that in order for God to truly be "real" or "good", then God needs to do much more about the evil in the world, and allowing evil to exist at all is a very cruel thing for God to do. Is that accurate?

    Well, I believe that God has done something to counter the evil in the world, and that is Jesus. If you'll recall SG, Jesus saved a woman caught in adultery from stoning, and he refused to let his disciples spill the blood of Roman guards even as he was being led to his death. So yes, you can be all out about following the Bible and NOT engage in stoning adulterers or mass murder.

    This is the fundamental difference in our beliefs, I think: I believe evil in the world is the byproduct of our own hatred against each other, through social, political, and religious differences. You make no bones about dishing out as much as you get, SG, and no I don't consider you an antichrist, that was out of line for her to say that. However, when we embrace a truth and trumpet it at the expense of others, that doesn't solve the problem.

    SG, ideally, if we're going to share any beliefs, we need to act less like salesmen and more like satisfied customers. Sometimes you remind me of a religious zealot on a street corner, getting in people's faces and badgering them and offering them no alternative. That's a salesman attitude, dude.

    The reason I believe in God and prayer is because despite all WE do to hurt one another, the Bible explains how to pray, what to pray, and why we can pray it: God provides us strength because in our weakness, He knows we MUST pray in order to accomplish what He would have us to. Mind you, it's completely possible to live without God's influence. But I do think it's entirely possible for God to mean me to accomplish a certain purpose in life, and for me to blow Him off for my entire life, living how I see fit and missing on something else. In that case, I have two choices: get paranoid and worried and eventually bitter over whether I'm on "God's path," or I pray, read the Bible, and seek guidance from trusted sources.

    When all is said and done, I've heard cases for why religion is bad. I've also heard the case that religion is the single most civilizing power in history. SG, we can't discount all of religion because of major blemishes. That'd be like me saying your life was crap because you were a druggie for half those years. Major mistake, of course, but to say you have no worth because of it is dumb. I'd much rather believe in you.

    I'm well aware of the mass destruction God caused in the Old Testament. It was harsh punishment for mankind's disobedience. I have to say, that disobedience is what causes the war, famine, destruction, and whatnot. Can God ever completely cure the world of its ills while we're still in it? I don't believe so...we'd misuse any gift we would get. SG, I think true transformation in the world needs to happen with our participation, not as an instant gift from God. In other words, how can perfection be achieved on Earth (removal of disease, famine, aids, cancer, etc.), when it's main tenants are imperfect? And if everything got fixed with humanity sti
  • lidstrom82 said on Oct 12, 2008....
    (this is the rest of the first post; it got cut off)

    And if everything got fixed with humanity still around, how could be keep from screwing that up with our flaws?

    The bottom line is that God invites us all to have relationship with Him, to be transformed from the inside out to help be the solution. Without the standards set before me by God, I'd do a lot less to help others. I'd focus on myself and my needs first, and not worry about much else. What religion, at its best, can offer is a community that intends on benefiting the world by healing it. Many would disagree, but I believe Jesus is the pinnacle of faith, because he doesn't stress "religion"...he stresses relationships that heal.
  • RollingC said on Oct 12, 2008....
    @ lids....   :^)
  • starchini said on Oct 13, 2008....

    Stupid.  My comment was anything but retarded.  Just because you lack the intellect to respond to it without calling me names like a four year old doesnt make me one.  You obviously know nothing about me.  By trying to hurt my feelings and punching below the belt for no apparent reason tells me that you are incredibly insecure.  I have been to school, I am infact an educated person, just because someone believes in God doesnt make them uneducated.  I am no where near from the deep south.  My dad is one of the smartest people ive ever met, my mom, one of the most passionate.  I am not trying to defend myself against what you said about me, merely trying to give you a better idea of who your actually speaking with.  Your assumptions couldnt have been more off base.  One more thing, just because I have no interest in reading about evolution or the bible doesnt make me illiterate.  I read quite often.  Thank you very much.

    P.S. your a very mean back handed rude person.

  • starchini said on Oct 13, 2008....

    Oh and stupid,  i did not mean to offend you by calling you an antichrist.  I didnt think there was a difference between athiest and antichrist...I still dont.  I didnt relize that was the reason you were being mean to me.  Athiests are "AntiGod", and so is the AntiChrist...no diff to me, didnt mean to offend...U told lid that i was the one that was rude first.  I just wanted to clear that up.  I meant no offense saying antichrist.  I figure its all the same. 

  • lidstrom82 said on Oct 13, 2008....
    Hey starchini, it can be very frustrating to talk to SG at times, but the truth is that apart from the topic of religion (of which he has strong opinions), he's a very thoughtful, well-adjusted person.

    There are vital differences between an atheist and an antichrist. An atheist does not profess to believe in a god, intelligent design by an all-powerful entity, or the existence of supernatural concepts such a heaven, angels, the power of prayer, or the presence of a human soul (clarify on any of that as needed, SG).

    My understanding of the antichrist is that he/she/it knows that God does exist, and works to undermine God by turning people away from Him. So the antichrist definitely believes in God, it's just that the antichrist is trying to Be God.

    The Bible speaks of THE antichrist during the end times, but the spirit of the antichrist has been present in history. Some people would say that famous dictators, emperors, or tyrants over history have demonstrated the traits of an antichrist: they may claim allegiance to a god, like Hitler initially did, but they reveal themselves to want godlike power, while discouraging people's belief in God (like the God of Christianity, Jehovah in Judaism, or Allah in Islam).

    So discouraging belief in God might be a common goal between atheists and the antichrist, and even self-improvement toward perfection could be a shared interest, but one acknowledges God and the other doesn't, so it's generally not a good idea to see them as one and the same, starchini.
  • mixednuts said on Oct 13, 2008....
    This get off topic a bit. How can a person pray and recieve healing? If one believes in prayer I could use an example.
  • starchini said on Oct 13, 2008....

    My Grandpa was a die hard alcoholic and 5 pack a day smoker.  He was never a fan of Dr.s and believed in the bare minimum for medical attention.  He was diagnosed with liver cancer, emphazema and chronic pneumonia at around the age of 50.  Docs gave a few meds out and some sort of breathing machine and gave him a couple years maximum, and even less if he didnt quit drinking or smoking.  He never quit drinking and never quit smoking and he lived to be 86.  His cancer went into remission numerous times after all his dr.s said it was terminal.  His cancer vanished a couple of years before he died, no dr. could explain how.  They themselves called it a miracle.  In the end it was the pneumonia that killed him.  Gpa was a devout caholic.  Went to church and prayed to live until his stock went up.  All the family joked about how grandpa was bionic and nothing could kill him.  He would always say he wasnt gonna die until his investments made him rich.  Well after he died in his will he took the profits from his investments to his attorney and registered them and ordered them to be dispersed in every which way.  And 2 days after his last will update with those investments being added he died.  He paid off all of his debts.  He gave $52,000 dollars to each of his 8 kids and $100,000 to both of his wives.  That was all God.  I do not believe in coincidence.

  • StupidGenius said on Oct 13, 2008....

    Well put Lid. I just don’t think you can consider your opinion on religion or the existence of god to be unbiased unless you have made the effort to look at both sides. And I don’t think your opinion on the subject can be considered even slightly rational unless your have at least read up on evolution or the holy book of your designated faith. For someone to say there is a god and mention “the antichrist” in whatever context and then admit that they have no knowledge of the contents of the bible is like saying, “I know all about particle physics but I have never read anything about it”. I am simply saying that unless you can demonstrate some understanding based on your own reading of it then I cant be expected to be nice to someone who is clearly just regurgitating dogma passed down to them.

    I have been called the antichrist, I have been told that I must be dysfunctional; I have been told that I have some kind of problem with god so deny his existence etc. Atheists are a minority but not as small a minority as you might think. I would put money on many of America’s politicians having at least an agnostic view of religion and god but unfortunately anyone who professes any disbelief in a god has no chance at all of being voted into office.

    To get back on subject. My view as already stated is that there is no reason to believe prayer works as there is no proof and it can easily be put down to chance rather than a divine intervention. If we are to believe that some prayers are answered then it follows that god is inherently unfair as it means he answered some and not others. I don’t think its much to expect that a supernatural being that carries the faith of millions without providing them with any proof of his existence would select the prayers of dying children as his top priority for divine intervention. There is no evidence of this intervention so therefore any real reason to believe he exists at all.

    SG
  • StupidGenius said on Oct 13, 2008....

    Starchini - The doctors would have said "at this rate you should not expect to live any more than..." it would only be an educated guess based on there experience of a disease we don’t fully understand. Im certain that unless the doctor was a man of some godly faith he wouldn’t use the word "miracle" because that word insinuates a direct intervention of a supernatural force ie god.

     

    Are you really saying that a god decided to allow him to live until a ripe old age just so he was able to pass on accumulated wealth to his children and wives? Don’t you think an almighty god could think of better things to do. In the last 30 odd years that he continued to live do you know roughly how many children would have died in Africa from starvation, childhood cancer and aids? Wouldn’t you consider it ridiculous that an all-powerful god would then choose to extend his life and not those of innocent children? If you can rationally explain why a god would do such a thing then I will be very interested to hear it.

     

    Coincidence or chance happens. Have you ever been talking about someone and then your phone rings and it just happens to be the person you were talking about? What do you think a lottery win constitutes? (Please don’t say that god did it because I hope you realise that Atheists have been know to win the jackpot before). For most of your life you will make rational decisions. for example if you are sick you go to the hospital, If your tooth hurts you go to a dentist or if you are hungry then you eat. Why would most of your life be spent making rational decisions but your view on the as yet unexplained be based solely on "blind Faith"? It makes no sense.

     

    SG

  • StupidGenius said on Oct 13, 2008....

    Starchini - The doctors would have said "at this rate you should not expect to live any more than..." it would only be an educated guess based on there experience of a disease we don’t fully understand. Im certain that unless the doctor was a man of some godly faith he wouldn’t use the word "miracle" because that word insinuates a direct intervention of a supernatural force ie god.

     

    Are you really saying that a god decided to allow him to live until a ripe old age just so he was able to pass on accumulated wealth to his children and wives? Don’t you think an almighty god could think of better things to do. In the last 30 odd years that he continued to live do you know roughly how many children would have died in Africa from starvation, childhood cancer and aids? Wouldn’t you consider it ridiculous that an all-powerful god would then choose to extend his life and not those of innocent children? If you can rationally explain why a god would do such a thing then I will be very interested to hear it.

     

    Coincidence or chance happens. Have you ever been talking about someone and then your phone rings and it just happens to be the person you were talking about? What do you think a lottery win constitutes? (Please don’t say that god did it because I hope you realise that Atheists have been know to win the jackpot before). For most of your life you will make rational decisions. for example if you are sick you go to the hospital, If your tooth hurts you go to a dentist or if you are hungry then you eat. Why would most of your life be spent making rational decisions but your view on the as yet unexplained be based solely on "blind Faith"? It makes no sense.

     

    SG

  • StupidGenius said on Oct 13, 2008....

    Starchini - The doctors would have said "at this rate you should not expect to live any more than..." it would only be an educated guess based on there experience of a disease we don’t fully understand. Im certain that unless the doctor was a man of some godly faith he wouldn’t use the word "miracle" because that word insinuates a direct intervention of a supernatural force ie god.

     

    Are you really saying that a god decided to allow him to live until a ripe old age just so he was able to pass on accumulated wealth to his children and wives? Don’t you think an almighty god could think of better things to do. In the last 30 odd years that he continued to live do you know roughly how many children would have died in Africa from starvation, childhood cancer and aids? Wouldn’t you consider it ridiculous that an all-powerful god would then choose to extend his life and not those of innocent children? If you can rationally explain why a god would do such a thing then I will be very interested to hear it.

     

    Coincidence or chance happens. Have you ever been talking about someone and then your phone rings and it just happens to be the person you were talking about? What do you think a lottery win constitutes (Please don’t say that god did it because I hope you realise that Atheists have been know to win the jackpot before). For most of your life you will make rational decisions. for example if you are sick you go to the hospital, If your tooth hurts you go to a dentist or if you are hungry then you eat. Why would most of your life be spent making rational decisions but your view on the as yet unexplained be based solely on "blind Faith"? It makes no sense.

     

    SG

  • StupidGenius said on Oct 13, 2008....

    Starchini - The doctors would have said "at this rate you should not expect to live any more than..." it would only be an educated guess based on there experience of a disease we don’t fully understand. Im certain that unless the doctor was a man of some godly faith he wouldn’t use the word "miracle" because that word insinuates a direct intervention of a supernatural force ie god.

     

    Are you really saying that a god decided to allow him to live until a ripe old age just so he was able to pass on accumulated wealth to his children and wives? Don’t you think an almighty god could think of better things to do. In the last 30 odd years that he continued to live do you know roughly how many children would have died in Africa from starvation, childhood cancer and aids? Wouldn’t you consider it ridiculous that an all-powerful god would then choose to extend his life and not those of innocent children? If you can rationally explain why a god would do such a thing then I will be very interested to hear it.

     

    Coincidence or chance happens. Have you ever been talking about someone and then your phone rings and it just happens to be the person you were talking about? What do you think a lottery win constitutes? (Please don’t say that god did it because I hope you realise that Atheists have been know to win the jackpot before). For most of your life you will make rational decisions. for example if you are sick you go to the hospital, If your tooth hurts you go to a dentist or if you are hungry then you eat. Why would most of your life be spent making rational decisions but your view on the as yet unexplained be based solely on "blind Faith"? It makes no sense.

     

    SG

  • StupidGenius said on Oct 13, 2008....
     
  • StupidGenius said on Oct 13, 2008....

    Starchini - The doctors would have said "at this rate you should not expect to live any more than..." it would only be an educated guess based on there experience of a disease we don’t fully understand. Im certain that unless the doctor was a man of some godly faith he wouldn’t use the word "miracle" because that word insinuates a direct intervention of a supernatural force ie god.

     

    Are you really saying that a god decided to allow him to live until a ripe old age just so he was able to pass on accumulated wealth to his children and wives? Don’t you think an almighty god could think of better things to do. In the last 30 odd years that he continued to live do you know roughly how many children would have died in Africa from starvation, childhood cancer and aids? Wouldn’t you consider it ridiculous that an all-powerful god would then choose to extend his life and not those of innocent children? If you can rationally explain why a god would do such a thing then I will be very interested to hear it.

     

    Coincidence or chance happens. Have you ever been talking about someone and then your phone rings and it just happens to be the person you were talking about? What do you think a lottery win constitutes (Please don’t say that god did it because I hope you realise that Atheists have been know to win the jackpot before). For most of your life you will make rational decisions. for example if you are sick you go to the hospital, If your tooth hurts you go to a dentist or if you are hungry then you eat. Why would most of your life be spent making rational decisions but your view on the as yet unexplained be based solely on "blind Faith"? It makes no sense.

     

    SG

  • lidstrom82 said on Oct 13, 2008....
    OK SG, everything you're saying is rational and makes sense, and I think some healthy dialogue can happen as opposed to yesterday.

    starchini may not have an understanding of faith that satisfies your need for a rational explanation of God...what you have to remember is that for some people, they can see enough evidence of something to accept it as true. Case in point: you don't need the full, unabridged history of your best friend in order to befriend them. It's almost impossible to know the full history of anyone or anything we commit ourselves to, whether it's a spouse or religion. At some point we have to accept it for what it is, and continue to learn about it, being real about doubts and never blindly accepting a new thought.

    SG, that's the ideal for a Christian, or any other religious person. Lots of people are unhappy with being religious because they do it to be comfortable, and could care less about tough questions. I'm personally grateful that in tough situations, I can basically talk like an atheist for 5 minutes to my wife and she won't be freaked out. She'd be MORE concerned if I sugarcoated my life as a Christian and appeared to be in constant bliss - wearing a mask over my flaws. Too many religious people do that, and it looks outright fake to me and many other people.

    As for prayer to heal loved ones, I had the privilege of working at a church for the last two years, and being in a situation where I heard weekly accounts from fellow staff about how people they prayed for were healed of deafness, blindness, fractured bones, cancer, and other ailments.

    These are not claims to take lightly. Either they happen, they don't happen, or the condition wasn't as bad as the doctors/person thought before the "healing" took place. You grow close to others who talk about such things, and you either believe they are telling the truth, or you conclude that they are liars. What I decided was that if so many people on this church staff were lying, then their dishonesty would manifest itself in other ways; that's the nature of people who are dishonest.

    Was I with those people when this healing happened? No, I wasn't. What I experienced was that these people have all experienced life without faith in God, and that they work tirelessly to be "satisfied customers" of God that share their lives with others. Many times, these people dropped everything to help my wife and I in times of desperate need. It doesn't take a lot of examination to realize that these people give a damn about others, more so than the people in my life who are indifferent about God or religion. I know that I cared for others far less before I learned about God, and that is the personal experience I've had.

    My challenge is that I've also encountered people who took knowledge about God and lorded it over other people, hitting them over the head with biblical tidbits and acting every bit like boorish salesmen. How do I accept such people? How do I keep an accurate picture of what a joyful life looks like?

    That's what prayer and the Bible are for. They are unifying things that bring people together into the kind of community that lifts people up in difficult times. Not every group that gets together in the name of God is merely out for money or filling pews. Apart from traditions, rituals, nonbiblical teachings in sermons, theocracies, the Bible Belt, right wing conservatism...apart from all of that, there exists genuine community in God that is inclusive to outcasts and undesirables, and meets practical needs to demonstrate love and respect.

    In the end, SG, I believe God is more pleased with practical, rational aid being brought to His people, than He is with huge sanctuaries, the biggest tithers, the most eloquent prayers, and the smartest priests/pastors.


  • godinfocn said on Oct 14, 2008....
    Good article.
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  • StupidGenius said on Oct 14, 2008....

    Lets assume god exists.

    Any god that is capable of creating the universe and life is also in turn capable of saving and helping the life he created. There is not a single way any religious person can justify a god that has the power to help or save a child with cancer or aids and chooses not to do so. There is no reason that could ever justify that action or non-action as the case may be. Any god that can sit back and watch as millions die from natural disasters caused by him creating an imperfect world for us to live on is not worthy of any worship. No justification can be made for that non-action.

    No matter how much "Blind Faith" you have I cant see how or why you would go and worship something which you believe has the power to change the world but chooses not to. Do you really think that all of this life is a test to see if you are worthy of a place in heaven? Do you really want to go to heaven and spend eternity with a god that shows no concern for our welfare or that of our children?

    Take your bible and your faith in god and go to a cancer ward in a children’s hospital. Explain to their parents that god has a plan for their child when they inevitably die. Explain why they have to suffer the unimaginable pain of losing their pride and joy, their creation, the centre of their universe. A friend of mines son just lost his daughter after she had been alive for only three weeks. They had held it, fed it, cuddled it and sung to it even though they knew she was going to die. In the end he spent an hour sitting with her, holding her in his arms as the world went on around him and she died in his arms. Explain to them that your god sees everything and is all-powerful.

    Prayer doesn’t help anyone, if anything, for some people it damages even further because not only have they lost a child they have to come to terms with the fact that the god they have worshipped and prayed to all their lives has done nothing to help them in their one and only moment of true desperation.

    SG

  • lidstrom82 said on Oct 14, 2008....
    Thanks for the comments, SG. I'm sorry to hear about your friend's son's loss.

    Let me share a scenario with you: let's say your son grows into his teens and becomes aware of, and comfortable with, his independence. Once he hits a certain age, he becomes legally responsible for himself, and he begins making extremely harmful decisions to himself and others. Joining a gang, recklessly having casual sex, having a bad temper, abuses drugs or alcohol. Or perhaps worst of all: what if he joins a church! (Just joking, bro :)

    How do you respond to your son in the wake of these destructive decisions? Try to exert some control or authority to protect him, or let him live as he pleases? You would probably love him no matter what, and try to strike a balance...you know best how you'd react.

    SG, this scenario is remarkably similar to the relationship between God and all of us: a father's child, of his creation, is actively choosing to rebel, hurting themselves and others because they think life is better how they're living it.

    If a young man of 18 years is legally independent, and makes terrible choices, he's responsible for his actions. However, I believe your worldview is, in effect, blasting the father for what the son is doing.

    In other words, God gave us all free will. If our own bad choices collectively account for the evils of the world, it makes NO sense to blame God for our mistakes.

    You said that if God is all-powerful, why isn't He fixing all of the imperfection? I take that to mean that even if we screw things up ourselves, why doesn't God take care of these things?

    SG, that's impossible to do in this life without removing our free will, and I dunno about you, but I appreciate free will. None of us are perfect, right? Well, if God were to fix everything wrong on Earth, our imperfection would still cause murder, famine, greed, envy, self-centeredness, etc. That means that God would regularly have to sustain and "clean up" our messes because inherently, humanity cannot attain perfection.

    How often would God have to do that? Once a year? Once a month? Once a week? Every ten minutes? Essentially, in the world we live in, for God to exist we'd have to have Him be our 24/7 personal trash collector.

    That's a pretty sweet deal for us, I'd say. But wait: if God had to do that, why go through all that trouble? Why not create humanity perfect, so He could not only NOT have to clean up after us all the time, but actually enjoy His creation, and vice versa?

    Thing is, God did create us perfect already. He also gave us free will. Adam and Eve messed that up big time. Couldn't God have just erased them and started over? Possibly...but we wouldn't try to "erase" our children if they misbehaved, so it's not a stretch to think that God would try to work WITH them, rather than destroying them. Later on, God did bring the Flood to wipe the slate clean, which is pretty extreme, but He chose to spare Noah and his family, which we can't really argue with, because none of us would be here if He had killed them too.

    So, we're all here on a planet that is often hostile, living with people that can be quite selfish WITHOUT being religious in any way. SG, please think of the cumulative effect of human evil throughout history. We have done some wicked things, and IF all gods are fictional, then we made them up to justify some of our worst atrocities. In other words, by atheism's terms, we are all directly responsible for the evils in the world, because any gods we worship were mere men, or at least fictional deities. If religion was purely inspired by human imagination, then we truly have no excuse for all the suffering in the world.

    That last point compounds the idea that if any god exists, they must DO SOMETHING to correct our plight. And SG, I believe the God of the Bible has indeed done much:

    1) Created mankind
    2) Chose to let Adam and Eve live and prosper on Earth even after they sinned
    3) pursued relationships with men like Abraham, Noah, Moses, and many others, to instill a purpose in each of them and to allow the human race to multiply and, at times, survive
    4) Passed commandments and guidelines to His people as a matter of civilizing them, in matters of law, labor, sanitation, worship, leadership, and others
    5) Freed the Israelites from Egypt and led them to the Promised Land
    6) Established a Covenant with His people, telling them exactly what to expect should they disobey Him (you can't say God is cruel if He told them the consequences outright, and they still disobeyed)
    7) Honored and upheld righteous men and women in times of worldly persecution and strife
    8) Used prophets to speak messages of hope to encourage, and to share visions of destruction to warn His people to turn from their ways, all in an effort to save them
    9) Appointed other prophets to foretell the coming of a Messiah, a Holy One, that would bring freedom and prosperity to the people
    10) Sent Jesus to Earth to fulfill the mission of opening the door for not just Jews, but ALL people to experience the love of God through Christ's sacrifice
    11) Left an inspired document that has been carefully translated and preserved over the millennia to tie together the history of all God's people, and as a basic manual for how to live life
    12) Promises an eternity in Heaven for those who keep His commands, which are these: to love Him the best you can, and to love others just as much as we love ourselves
    13) Has built a distinguished history of past believers, martyrs, saints, and leaders that have left examples for us to follow
    14) Provided communities where people can gather to worship, gain support and strength from others, and learn about how to rise above the evils of the world to bring a positive influence into it.

    That's just 14 items. The Bible's over a thousand pages long, with 66 books in it. I truly just touched the tip of the iceberg.

    SG, the Bible does not specifically address the fate of babies and children that die in infancy, are aborted by their mothers, or otherwise meet a cruel end. However, Jesus did say that the kingdom of God belongs to such as these...children. Small children have not yet matured into having free will to either accept or reject God, and I personally believe that such children face relief in Heaven. That is what I sincerely wish for your friend's son's daughter. You all may yet see her again :)

    I've gone through so many points and gone deep with other things in this post, and it's a doozy. But through it all, I believe that God has done much to work with us to be part of the solution. Some might say we can't control when God decides to wipe out portions of humanity, but whenever He has done so, it's because we were disobedient. So yes, we can affect whether we ever see God's wrath or not.

    Bottom line: we are our own problem, in our own pursuits to be selfish, godlike, greedy; in our constructed governments, regimes, churches, and gods meant to control others through guilt and fear; in the knowledge we gain and hold over others; in our pride that lets us boast about things that won't last; and in our self-centeredness, wanting so much for ourselves but seldom willing to give half as much to others.

    I believe God has done, is doing, and will do, a great many things for the human race. It does not make Him a meany when we rebel and kill and slander each other. It DOES make Him compassionate for giving enough of a damn about us to teach us how to live in peace and harmony. As always, I'm not demanding anybody believe it because I said so, or even because I got it from a book (I think your opinions could use the same disclaimer, SG, to be honest). All I'm saying is that if Jesus Christ is true, then we are much better off following Him than blaming God for our own mistakes.
  • StupidGenius said on Oct 15, 2008....

    So basically you have no idea why god would allow little babies to die then? You have no idea why god would create an imperfect place for us to live in which at the same time kills a few million every now and then by way of volcanic eruption or earth quake.

    I understand the free will part of what you are saying. The problem with your argument is that god is not answerable to anything he does. If we become evil its because he gave us free will. If we do something good its because god influenced us to do good. If something amazing happens then WOW! It’s a miracle. At no point do you say, "Hold on a minute, why does god allow babies to die? That doesn’t make sense!" I think you should be asking your church that question and don’t stop asking until you have a direct answer.

    As a man of faith you have to make a choice,

    1. God exists and he gets involved in humanity and helps.

    2. God exists but he doesn’t get involved in our lives because he has given us free will.

    Either way god is guilty of being a pretty crap creator. If you select option 1 then to me this means that he has the power to help so gets involved, problem is he is not getting involved enough because children are still dying. If you select option 2 then this to me means that he could get involved but chooses not to. Thats pretty crap as well.

    To respond to your father son comment. I would let my son learn from his own mistakes but if he was in real danger and there was something I could do to help then I would help in an instant. When a Tsunami is heading towards a school full of children is it likely that god will stop it from killing them? No.

    SG

  • lidstrom82 said on Oct 15, 2008....
    Hey SG, I just sent a very detailed response to you over PM. I'll address the stuff here too on shorter terms for anyone who's interested in this discussion.

    First off, everyone has different questions about God, and yours are very valid. Don't, however, assume that if I don't personally answer your questions to your satisfaction, that I "have no idea" about something. I can tell you how to change your poopy diaper, but I won't do it for ya!

    In essence, what you're talking about is the problem of evil. Why won't God prevent a small child from dying? Let me expand that - why does God allow ANYONE to die? Or, what about natural disasters? Why would God allow a tsunami to wipe out a bunch of people? Why would God allow someone to die of a snakebite, bear mauling, or some freak accident?

    By your definition, SG, it seems that if God was worth worshiping, He would prevent all these things from happening. The short answer is, this: God has given us everything we need to thrive in this life and in Heaven. Remember that Heaven is the ultimate goal for God and for us, NOT having this current planet perfected. Case in point: if a person believes in Jesus Christ, then it doesn't matter when or how they die: they are going to a place that is many times better than their life on Earth. For someone who believes this, neither tsunami nor losing a child is evidence of God's cruelty; for the person who knows that God is benevolent and kind, they see that no matter how they were removed from Earth, the destination is far better. That is exactly how God offers comfort even in things as awful as infant deaths, SG - life here is the journey, but Heaven is the destination and the reward.

    As for small children, you bring up a good point. Even church leaders clash over this issue. However, I do know it's much easier to think a small child is screwed if you think God is mean to begin with. When Jesus says that the Kingdom of God belongs to children, it's not a stretch to say that helpless infants with no developed free will are still under God's care. If we know they are blameless and fragile, then God would know that too, especially since He created us and knows how our bodies work.

    If God indeed knows all of this, then I think your problem, SG, is that you disagree with how God is taking care of the situation. Instead of the Bible, sending Jesus, building a community of believers, and prayer, you want Him to undo all the damage that Adam and Eve did, and all the damage to the world and each other that humanity has inflicted upon itself, and you want it to have happened a long time ago.

    But you have to consider what God would have to do in order to make that happen. He'd have to wipe the slate clean somehow. For some reason, God sees it better to work with us the way we are now, as opposed to starting over. So it comes to this: do you accept the free will and gifts God has given us in the world as it is, or would you want to be removed from the Earth while it gets cleaned up, because you are part of what's making it dirty in the first place? You can't have it both ways.

    To humanize the dilemma, I'd rather have a disobedient son that turns from his rebellious ways, than letting him go and replacing him with a new kid entirely. You'd wonder and worry for the first son, wanting the best for him and hoping that someday, he'll return. I believe it's very similar for God and us, because the Bible depicts God as a pursuer of our hearts. That's why God doesn't show up with amazing miracles, right now, to stop physical threats. It is the spiritual aspect of ourselves that will remain after we die, and so God appeals to the condition of our soul. Eventually, God WILL remake Heaven and Earth; in the meantime, it's not so much about striving for perfection as it is understanding who God is, so WE can make up for our own mistakes against each other.

    And prayer is a major vessel in how we understand God.
  • lidstrom82 said on Oct 15, 2008....
    Hey SG, I just sent a very detailed response to you over PM. I'll address the stuff here too on shorter terms for anyone who's interested in this discussion.

    First off, everyone has different questions about God, and yours are very valid. Don't, however, assume that if I don't personally answer your questions to your satisfaction, that I "have no idea" about something. I can tell you how to change your poopy diaper, but I won't do it for ya!

    In essence, what you're talking about is the problem of evil. Why won't God prevent a small child from dying? Let me expand that - why does God allow ANYONE to die? Or, what about natural disasters? Why would God allow a tsunami to wipe out a bunch of people? Why would God allow someone to die of a snakebite, bear mauling, or some freak accident?

    By your definition, SG, it seems that if God was worth worshiping, He would prevent all these things from happening. The short answer is, this: God has given us everything we need to thrive in this life and in Heaven. Remember that Heaven is the ultimate goal for God and for us, NOT having this current planet perfected. Case in point: if a person believes in Jesus Christ, then it doesn't matter when or how they die: they are going to a place that is many times better than their life on Earth. For someone who believes this, neither tsunami nor losing a child is evidence of God's cruelty; for the person who knows that God is benevolent and kind, they see that no matter how they were removed from Earth, the destination is far better. That is exactly how God offers comfort even in things as awful as infant deaths, SG - life here is the journey, but Heaven is the destination and the reward.

    As for small children, you bring up a good point. Even church leaders clash over this issue. However, I do know it's much easier to think a small child is screwed if you think God is mean to begin with. When Jesus says that the Kingdom of God belongs to children, it's not a stretch to say that helpless infants with no developed free will are still under God's care. If we know they are blameless and fragile, then God would know that too, especially since He created us and knows how our bodies work.

    If God indeed knows all of this, then I think your problem, SG, is that you disagree with how God is taking care of the situation. Instead of the Bible, sending Jesus, building a community of believers, and prayer, you want Him to undo all the damage that Adam and Eve did, and all the damage to the world and each other that humanity has inflicted upon itself, and you want it to have happened a long time ago.

    But you have to consider what God would have to do in order to make that happen. He'd have to wipe the slate clean somehow. For some reason, God sees it better to work with us the way we are now, as opposed to starting over. So it comes to this: do you accept the free will and gifts God has given us in the world as it is, or would you want to be removed from the Earth while it gets cleaned up, because you are part of what's making it dirty in the first place? You can't have it both ways.

    To humanize the dilemma, I'd rather have a disobedient son that turns from his rebellious ways, than letting him go and replacing him with a new kid entirely. You'd wonder and worry for the first son, wanting the best for him and hoping that someday, he'll return. I believe it's very similar for God and us, because the Bible depicts God as a pursuer of our hearts. That's why God doesn't show up with amazing miracles, right now, to stop physical threats. It is the spiritual aspect of ourselves that will remain after we die, and so God appeals to the condition of our soul. Eventually, God WILL remake Heaven and Earth; in the meantime, it's not so much about striving for perfection as it is understanding who God is, so WE can make up for our own mistakes against each other.

    And prayer is a major vessel in how we understand God.
  • andora said on Oct 16, 2008....
    couldn't read much of the discourse here but SG said:

    "Well put Lid. I just don’t think you can consider your opinion on religion or the existence of god to be unbiased unless you have made the effort to look at both sides. And I don’t think your opinion on the subject can be considered even slightly rational unless your have at least read up on evolution or the holy book of your designated faith. For someone to say there is a god and mention “the antichrist” in whatever context and then admit that they have no knowledge of the contents of the bible is like saying, “I know all about particle physics but I have never read anything about it”. I am simply saying that unless you can demonstrate some understanding based on your own reading of it then I cant be expected to be nice to someone who is clearly just regurgitating dogma passed down to them."

    i often feel the same way stupid...i wish people pushing christian dogma would at least read the book they are espousing

    every word that comes out of their mouth show how fucking stupid they are!

    some have only read some of the King James version, without understanding that King James butt fucked the gospel of Christ in the name of slavery and control of an entire class that he was attempting to subjegate

    who ever is going by lindstrom...i know you have good intentions and that you believe in decency - thankyou, i commend you on your love of your God...i love reverence

    BUT, REVERENCE FOR DOGMA

    wellll, that's another matter all together
  • lidstrom82 said on Oct 17, 2008....
    To be honest with you, andora, I'm not a fan of the King James version either! I've had the most exposure to New International Version, New Living Translation, and The Message, the last of which is the most folksy, but easiest to understand for people more street smart than book smart.

    As for your dogma comment, I don't believe anybody has to be religious at all to follow dogma. Dogma is "the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, ideology, or any kind of organization, thought to be authoritative and not to be disputed, doubted or diverged from."

    If someone doesn't follow an "official" dogma to live by, they usually form their own. Who's to say your personal dogma is less, or more, rigid than mine? Don't mistake me for a dogmatic Bible thumper just because I believe what it says :) I fully believe that Christian faith must be scrutinized and doubted by its own adherents in order to know WHY they believe something. And I don't believe someone is automatically doomed to hell for diverging from Christian beliefs. By the definition above, andora, does the term "dogma" apply in my case? I would say no....no reverence for dogma here.

    Besides, I've expressed my views at least as fervently as SG has in his own atheistic "dogma." In the end, we'll find out just what dogma was worth following, so to speak.
  • house said on Oct 20, 2008....
    I don't want to talk about pie in the sky. I just want to see Gods work in my life.
  • RollingC said on Oct 20, 2008....
    From the heart House....from the heart.   Ask from the heart and don't expect instant coffee solutions from the Almighty.  He will answer..( He did to me but not right away).
    Rc
  • Deepak9p said on Jan 10, 2009....
    I was an alcoholic for 14 years.Now i am sober.I believe in the power of prayer.I pray every day for my sober living only for that day.I don't think of past or future i think for today. http://de-adiction.blogspot.com
  • PieterOpie said on Jan 25, 2009....
    Do I believe in the power of prayer?




    hmmmmm.....








    No.
  • PieterOpie said on Jan 25, 2009....
    I know some card tricks if that's any help........  
  • StupidGenius said on Feb 18, 2009....

    Prayer is a waste of time, dont you think the starving children in africa pray for food. Dont you think the mothers and fathers of those children pray for food for their children?

    Just Wake up!

    SG

  • PieterOpie said on Feb 18, 2009....
    Researchers have done some tests / experiments to see if prayer actually makes a difference.   They did it all terribly scientifically to prevent anyone using black magic and all that....  And in one case the results showed that it was in fact slightly detrimental to the subject (a patient).

    Other tests showed a small benefit.

    I am therefore convinced that over all..... it has ZERO effect.



    Remember kiddies, when you pray the monsters and the devil can hear you and then they will come and find you when you are asleep and do unspeakable things to your person....... MHUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

    .
  • lidstrom82 said on Feb 20, 2009....
    Truth is, if someone values prayer, sarcastic comments to the contrary will do little to change it.

    It's a slippery slope to walk, SG and Pieter, for this reason: life is very hard, and in ways that neither of the three of us have ever experienced. Everyone has different sources of strength to cope with such things. You may not value prayer or spirituality, but you cannot deny that billions of people adhere to some spiritual source of truth.

    Do you really think that trying to tear down another person's source of strength is going to benefit anyone at all? SG, I know that you operate from a desire for people to "get real," and I understand that. I think the way you disagree could be a lot more constructive. You too, Pieter.

    In the end, it's not so much about being right, as it is being in harmony with other people, even if they believe in some far-out things.
  • PieterOpie said on Feb 20, 2009....
    ME???!!!!   Sarcastic?  Never.  When have I ever been sarcastic?  I can't possibly imagine what you mean. The title "Do you believe in...." invites anyone to answer the question and I offer up what I saw in two documentaries and what I read about in a third case on that very subject.  The results seemed to suggest that it did not work. So how I am on a slippery slope for reporting that is beyond me.  Where would that slope slide me to?  Straight to hell I suppose.  I promise you it will not.  Hell also doesn't work for me. 

    If all the world's billions did not pray to god or whatever how is that a comfort since their prayers only ever appear to be answered but more often never are.  Many of the billions suffer regardless of their beliefs. 

    I am vehemently opposed to organised religion because people such as yourself use it to manipulate the minds of those who are susceptible to all kinds of suggestion of heavenly reward..... or is it the threat of a hellish punishment?

    All that other stuff you go on about is irrelevant.   I reject it.  "The power of prayer" is an oxymoron. 
  • StupidGenius said on Feb 20, 2009....

    Lid, by now I though you would have realised that I have no intention of changing anyone’s mind on a subject. I simply state facts. Problem is, allot of people on here have an allergic reaction to facts so when they are given them they get all defensive and spout gibberish.

    I am not a people pleaser. Hope that’s clear.

    SG

  • mixednuts said on Feb 20, 2009....
    I have prayed over and over again for one thing that only God could do. No answer! Am I Lot? God must be to busy to hear little ol me. I'm not perfect, but who is but God?
    I seek the secret code that truely reaches God.
  • StupidGenius said on Feb 20, 2009....

    Sorry mixed, there is no secret code. You and you alone can change your life. Dont rely on the supernatural. Live your life to its fullest. Simple as that.

    SG

  • PieterOpie said on Feb 20, 2009....
    At Alcoholics Anonymous they urge you to pray to your "higher power" in order to hand over problems that are too much for you. The higher power can be god or any things outside yourself that is greater than you are. For example it could be the universe or nature. 

    Whenever I get  my emotions all in a knot and I can't handle what is going on in my life and I realise I can't do anything about other than worry myself sick, I try to remember to hand it over to my higher power.  I don't know if I actually pray as such but I do go through the mental exercise of doing it. Then after that I let "god" or whatever take care of the problem and I stop worrying about it. Invariably the problem resolves itself and I did not spend all my time upset over it.  In other words - it works. 

    Is it the prayer?  Is it the letting go?  I think it is the latter.  We tend to want to change things even when we cannot and all that does is cause trauma and stress.  Letting go and just waiting for it to work out seems to work because after letting go, time moves on and either the problem solves itself or not. It may be no more than me being more accepting of the outcome because I am less stressed about it and in the meantime I am moving on too.

    My prayers goes something like this:

    "Please (god or ?) take care of this problem for me, it is too hard for me, Thanks"

    There - done.  Do I believe in prayer?   No.  But it works.  LOL

    That is because their is a rational explanation for it in this case.  A believer would of course see this as absolute proof that god exists and that he does in fact answer prayer......   Oh brother......  <rolls eyes> 
  • speaking_up said on May 10, 2009....
    "WHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO LOSE FOR GOD SAKE, THIS BOARD IS ANONYMOUS!"  I like that Andora...so true...people are so afraid of keeping it real, even anonymously!
     
    I snuck in to mixednuts profile and saw this topic (it's a little old now, ah well) and liked it.
     
    Power of prayer, I don't know, but I'll use any means I can get to survive sometimes...and I'm still here.
     
    Turning stuff over, giving it up to God...it's kind of a relief at times when things become too overwhelming.  Like today.  Mother's day. 
     
    I'll take your prayers...anyday.
  • speaking_up said on May 10, 2009....
    Oh yea, and I saw a post above that said a study was done and there was no evidence prayer worked...I disagree and have seen outstanding studies where prayer was the only possible reason for the difference in outcomes.  Whether that is because the people praying had any special powers or not I don't know.  But there are numerous studies where prayer was credited...
  • hairbrushedhubby said on Jun 20, 2009....
    Prayers definately work for me, and all are answered, not always the way I want and in God's time not mine, but He is good all the time.
  • andora said on Jun 23, 2009....
    thanks Speaking Up for the compliment

    this is very rare, so rare that I had to reread your words cus i couldn't believe it at first = aloha

    well, I saw a great medical study that show's on average that people with faith live about %20 longer than those without it

    me, I will live as long as I have the will to :']

    my prayers ALWAYS GET ANSWERED

    as said above, maybe not in my time or in the manner I envisioned it,

    but,


    today, I am electromagnetically reciprocal and my prayers are creating a magical reality that few can share with me because they don't have THAT MUCH FAITH AFTER ALL

    oh well, I am patient

    btw Pieter don't deny your sarcasm, this is what makes you so much fun to read....sarcasm is only bad in my mind if it is used to evade the topic!

    love and kisses
  • UnicornForm said on Jul 30, 2009....
    yes i pray. it works. when i was little i prayed to be beautiful,it worked. I prayed to find a guy that loved me and it worked.There are other multiple times, smaller things. God is magic andora, the secret code is care and love mixed, for me at least, i show him multiple times a day by conversat'n with him. if you think hes some mysterious magician or witch, chances are them people aint going to answer what you say or ask. im sure he likes to be treated as more than a family member, but part of you. I mean think if you were god, all these people prayed and asked to you, a bunch of request, and your being used with no true care, what kind of people would you answer? XoXoX
  • BELOW_TOP_SECRET said on Jul 30, 2009....
    Thankyou UnicornForm. Maybe Dod is to busy to hear m!
  • UnicornForm said on Aug 01, 2009....
    Never.
  • mixednuts said on Aug 05, 2009....
    U.F.-never what? God seems to brush me aside although I still love Jesus. I want to live the way Jesus would have me live even though I fall short.
  • UnicornForm said on Aug 06, 2009....
    hes never to busy to hear, he just chooses wat to answer mixie:) me to tho i hear you
  • mixednuts said on Aug 06, 2009....

    U.F.-perhaps Jesus heard my last prayer, but was I listening to the answer?

  • UnicornForm said on Aug 06, 2009....
    Ah! Thats what i struggle with, my mind wont shut up for me to hear his replies so i blame me.
  • lovelifeandsingle said on Aug 10, 2009....

    hi mixednuts. me and some of my friends have just been doing a bible study on prayer, and I am struggling with unanswered prayer, so I raised this at my study and they said maybe my answer is already there and I am not choosing to see it because it isn't what I want the answer to be. Also maybe the not answering it is your answer! Don't know if it helps you. It helped me. But everything done is in gods time and plan, when it happens you will realise then that, that was the perfect time. It's hard and definetly a test in faith.

  • lovelifeandsingle said on Aug 10, 2009....
    I do apologise I just read the last three or four comments properly and realised that I have just repeated it. What can I say it's midnight and I need to go to sleep :0
  • UnicornForm said on Aug 10, 2009....
    so true love life, I was watching a show and this guy talked about how god handles the bad you see and cant see, and thru you whether you realized it or not, I realized an "unannswered"prayer I was looking ffor so thanks and god bless you!
  • Aaron+Wanda said on Sep 24, 2009....
    I do believe in the power of prayer, I don't know if you people believe in negative forces... but this one time there was something there, it was dark you could feel it thick heavy atmosphere concentrated in one area, and the cd that I had playing on my cd player straight changed the music became distorted and just WRONG. My fiance said a prayer for me over the phone because of how extremely afraid I was, I got up to change the dam cd and I had totally forgotten about this one cd I had didn't remember anything bout it hadn't listened in several years. I put it on and the first song played I started praying also, the second song that came on was "Do you believe in Miracles" I felt instantly like God was there for me no doubt about it. Nothing has ever happened like that before and never has happened again THANK GOD.
  • mixednuts said on Sep 25, 2009....

    I need 2 read all of these now!

    God is not a negative force! Evil, selfish, lies=negative

  • ashish207 said on Sep 27, 2009....
    yes i belive in power of prayer when you pray for some one else?
  • mixednuts said on Oct 02, 2009....
    ashish207- do you feel that you can not pray for yourself, and have the prayer answered?
  • UnicornForm said on Oct 02, 2009....
    praying for another- interjection!
  • speaking_up said on Oct 02, 2009....
    it just keeps gettint worse.  how?  WHAT IS GOING ON
  • UnicornForm said on Oct 03, 2009....
    not enough prayer maybe.
  • mixednuts said on Oct 05, 2009....
    UicornFom- Perhaps faith!

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Not Sleeping

wishyouwerehere posted 6 days ago | views: 45 | Tags: love, dreams, stress, Prayer
Damned this mind of mine - always churning thoughts when it is supposed to be quiet!

I am so tired - a well earned fatigue from having fun, thank God. I walked all over the place yesterday. It nearly hit 70 degrees here, and I took full a... read entire post 3 comments

a very weird encOunter

mOOn_platOOn posted on Oct 31, 2009 | views: 138 | Tags: telepathy, Prayer, mind readers, mystery, pick up, flirting, life
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Was it a psychic moment? Or a weird attempt to hit on me?

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What the hell????

JusticeForAll posted on Nov 03, 2009 | views: 52 | Tags: H1N1, TAG-O-MATIC, flu, Prayer, hospital, Sick
So here I am, sitting in the hospital on my laptop. I feel like total shit. Last night, I woke up with a piercing pain in my abdomen. I felt like I was dying. My husband was at work, so I really didn't have anyone to call...... read entire post 5 comments

Devil hacking away

huantedangelofdark posted on Nov 03, 2009 | views: 18 | Tags: Prayer
I trip and slide
in the ooze of deceit
my insides swarthed
rotting hurting
sickness
the vile spirit
settling in
testing me like Job
taunting me
I will never be
what my potential was
fulfill... read entire post 0 comments

Please Goddess

Latis posted on Nov 06, 2009 | views: 15 | Tags: Prayer
Please Goddess, God, the Power that is the Universe,
Don't let my brother and his family suffer. Please let him live and feel good. Please do not let him become an unhappy burden to his wife and children.

So let it be.... read entire post 0 comments