• RollingC said on Sep 15, 2008....

  It's so much easier to believe and to have faith.  It's a shame that to believe you have to be secure in your faith, in your trust. I was a great doubter too until one day I was graced with an experience and even after that it wasn't until I trusted that I had growth in my faith.
  And then I had some more experiences, so many small and personal ones that I felt bombarded.
  Blessed are those that have not seen and still believe.....
  I've found that acceptance is also a part of believing and yes....it's a mystery why pain and suffering exists when there's a God that is only for love.   God is a mystery.
  I believe because I have seen and felt and now that I also accept the unexplainable my faith is set in a foundation of stone.
  Rc
  

• kruuyai said on Sep 15, 2008....

  I think that the point of coming back over and over again into new lives is to progress spiritually.  I know that seems unlikely if we, for the most part, can't remember our past lives, but I think that we do remember, if not consciously, then on some visceral level.  We've all met people who we would describe as "old souls," people who, in spite of a young chronological age and relatively little experience in this life, seem to have it all together, to have a wisdom or a depth of love that just seems out of sync.  I think that's because they are influenced by the lessons of their past lives.  I think that dreaming can also be a link to the lessons learned in the past.  I believe that all the knowledge that we have accumulated during all of our previous lives is available to us.  It's just for us to figure out how to tap into that knowledge, and I think there are many different ways of doing that.  Of course, this is just my belief, and I have no proof... just a hunch.  :)

• beyondtheveil said on Sep 15, 2008....

  rolling- I'm happy for you to have something to believe in but I haven't had any of those experiences you speak of. God is so much a mystery I can't even imagine one. There is nothing for me to hold on to. Very difficult for a whole lot of people.
  
  kruu- To live lives over and over must have a point. You mentioned to progress spiritually, but to what end? The way you explained it, it sounds like we do this to live one last life a more wise person. There must be a reason for the progression other than "I'm gonna be smarter later." Do you see what I mean? To what end?
  
  I've read that Nirvana in a couple of religions frees people from the cycle of re-birth and suffering only to be extinguished with no identity. At least that's an end result but doesn't sound much different than just dying and being annihilated.
  

• curmudgeon said on Sep 15, 2008....

  I think these are great questions. One thing I'd point out is that having faith doesn't mean "unalterable". The characters in the Bible are constantly finding their faith, then losing it, then finding it again. They forget about God, then remember God, then forget. Meanwhile, they induldge in every depraved act one can imagine, because they are all too human.
   
  Faith is a process, a lifelong journey, as you say, a mystery.
   
  If you had to put your faith journey into words, what would the story be? A search for answers? Consulting many sages from the past? Little discoveries? Big ones?
   
  If you're looking for the burning bush, you'll probably miss the signs that are right in front of you.

• beyondtheveil said on Sep 15, 2008....

  curmudgeon- Interesting comment and all true. I remember many years ago after attending a church and then laying low, people accused me of 'falling away'. I only fell away to look elsewhere because I was getting nowhere. I realize it is a lifelong search, a never ending quest for knowledge.
  
  I have looked for that burning bush never expecting to find it, but this isn't my normal course of action. I realize that all truth is hidden, kept from the obvious and has to be that way by the very nature of things. The search is actually over for those who will not go beyond all that is seen and held.
  

• andora said on Sep 15, 2008....

  hi beyond, I appreciate your depth. knowing that others around me are engaged in understanding the  ways of the spirit gives me faith in my fellows.
  
  you said: "The belief just wasn't there. No paranormal events or 'words from God' to help me along. I expected none as few worldwide experience this in any truly fathomable way."
  
  from my own experience I have found that our perceptions of ourselves and the outer world shape the individuals decision-making process. we create our reality by what we focus upon and what we believe to be possible. When I stopped limiting my opportunities through limiting words and beliefs I began to have more freedom and opportunity.
  
  My faith comes from knowing with all of my heart that I was given personality to have a personal experience. i use this personality to enjoy Free Will. My faith comes from knowing that if I am totally aligned with what it is that I want, and ask for this...it shows up in God's time...He/She has the timing feature, while I am charged with deciding what it is that I want. My real life has born this truth to be THE reality for me because I allow this to be my truth...so far I am being supported to continue along this way indefinatly. I expect miracles, therefore this is what I get on a regular basis.
  
  I explain these issues on a pre-personal electro-magnetic level as well as on the personal level at www.pangasm.org. thanks for the post, aloha.
  

• silver_phoenix said on Sep 15, 2008....

  beyond- you basically expressed my main thought when it comes to religion, "here I sit in an unquestionably confused state." I've explored most religions as well, and still cannot fully accept any of their teachings. It seems as if religion exists in order to control people, or maybe make some feel protected. Now, I wouldn't call myself an atheist, nor would I call myself an agnostic. And surely I'm not spiritual. There is no label for what I know/ believe. And I'm cool with that.

• beyondtheveil said on Sep 15, 2008....

  andora- It will take me some time to understand where you are coming from and I leave in the morning for a week. I don't mind further reading on your other site mainly because I've read on electro-magnetism and found radio shows concerning this. I'm assuming that on a religious level you are talking about how electro-magnetism blends with and affects your life and the life of the planet, but at the same time you mention a belief in God and experience miracles regularly. I am thinking the miracles concern a further understanding of your truth. Interesting. 

• beyondtheveil said on Sep 15, 2008....

  phoenix- I do think religion exerts control and makes people feel protected. I would add that I think one of it's main draws is offering hope where hope wouldn't exist otherwise, especially with poor and/or uneducated people. Many would disagree with this but Christianity seems to specialize in the poor and goes out of the way with warnings to those better off as if education and higher economic status drives people away from belief and salvation. I don't see this. I see the educated becoming more  leery of organized religion in the modern day world, but not necessarily giving up a belief in the possibility of a God.
  
  If I was to be labeled I think it would be agnostic.
  

• lfbno7 said on Sep 16, 2008....

  Beyond, I really recommend Michael Newton's book Journey of Souls to you. I think it would make a big dent in your confusion. As for looking into the Bible for some deep truths, I think that would be an utter waste of time. I read the Bible for stories, not for truths. The Bible is irrelevant except as a bit of literature. You may as well read Don Quixote for deep spiritual truths. Or Lord of the Rings. The Bible is a novel. Just because YHWH is a fictional character doesn't mean there's nothing and nobody out there. And the claim of Jesus's followers that he was the biological son of YHWH isn't too impressive. Who wants to be the son of a fictional character?

• kruuyai said on Sep 16, 2008....

  beyond:  I haven't read through the other comments, so forgive me if I'm repeating anything that anyone else has said, but I think that spiritual progress is about getting to the point where you no longer have to come back in a body.  What happens after that?  I'm not sure.  I would guess that either a) there is another existence in a spiritual form on a different plane that has some other purpose, or b) we are united with and become part of the universal energy (some call it god), which is different than being annihilated.  Our energy contributes to the overall energy of the universe which can be used for healing, etc.  Does our consciousness vanish at that point?  We won't know until it happens... or not.

• scipio said on Sep 16, 2008....

  For those who believe in God - No explanation is necessary.
   
  For those who don't believe in God - No explanation is possible.
   

• beyondtheveil said on Sep 16, 2008....

  7- There certainly are books which bring depth in many ways, no doubt about that. I have learned far more from books about life than the bible. I'm unfamiliar with journey of souls, but it wouldn't hurt to check out at the bookstore. 
  
  kruu- You answered my question in that you are considering something after this life plane. I believe more in answer 'b', but would much prefer answer 'a'. I wish there was some way to have faith in that.
  
  scipio- That's true. Problem is that I'm not completely in either camp. I do think most atheists explain with firm belief there is what we see and then nothing, which is no explanation at all. But point taken.
  

• truthsayer said on Sep 18, 2008....

  Just checking in with an "old" friend.  I've been out of the sc loop for about a week...and you are gone for about a week!  I just wanted to "wave" and say, "hey".  I'll comment more on this blog, when I see that you have returned my friend. 

  Love, love, love,

  Truthsayer

• silver_phoenix said on Sep 18, 2008....

  beyond- ehh good point. i suppose i get my hope elsewhere. perhaps from within! :-D
  

• beyondtheveil said on Sep 21, 2008....

  truth- Ok, I'm back, at least for a while. I'll be very attentive if you wish to comment. I'm in my typical state of limbo as you can see. The usual me. 

• kruuyai said on Sep 22, 2008....

  beyond:  lol... there's "a way" to have faith in anything you choose to have faith in.  :)

• truthsayer said on Sep 23, 2008....

  Ah yes...there is kruuyai.  People have faith in all sorts of things...whether they admit it or not...that is true.

  Hi BEYOND!  Welcome back.  I really did see many interesting things in your writing.  I too will be attentive later today.  Right now, I am seeing double ; )  I've been up since 3:30 am and I still have "the day to do".  I will be back though and I will share my insights with you, if you are still interested. 

  I will tell you that kruuyai has touched upon a truth...a human truth.  You are in limbo because you choose to be.  You have made it part of your identity.  Only you can "unmake it" a part of your identity.  So, you have way more control over all of this than you might like to think ; )

  How do you feel about that sweet prince of sc?  : )

   

  Your friend,

  Your neighbor,

  In Truth,

  In Love,

  Truthsayer : )

   

• tonibell said on Oct 01, 2008....

  beyound:  i feel that life flows as energy. different forms at different times. i feel like the concept of time constricts my understanding  of life. reincarnated lives could be happenning in multiple universes all at the same "time". maybe i can acheive a pure energy and become one with all things.

   

• beyondtheveil said on Oct 01, 2008....

  truth- Sometimes I wonder if limbo might be a good state to be in. It keeps me thinking and guessing. I just don't like the thought of leaving this world with no answers whatsoever. In the end all anyone has is belief or faith and its not enough.
  
  toni- I've thought about this. Multiple or infinite universes have been theorized quite heavily. By the way, I believe we are and always were pure energy and just don't know it. I wrote a post called Patterns of Energy. Check it out if you want.
  

• truthsayer said on Oct 01, 2008....

  No beyond.  I have more.  I know Him and I know that He knows me...inside and out.  I am not detatched at all.  I am engaged.  I am not in limbo.  I am not undecided.  But then, maybe you are not undecided either...like I intimated.

  Let's look at the definition of limbo, and see which definition fits you.  Shall we?  Of course, you are the one that has to decide between the three....or four definitions, depending on how far you are willing to bend over for a dance ; )  I mean, who is lowering this bar for you anyway....hmmm?  : )  Do you know how perfect your choice of this word is to your current "dilema", which has become your own personal "comfort zone"?

  LIMBO

  n. pl. for 2 & 3 --bos [[ ME < L abl. of limbus, edge, border (in  in limbo, in or on the border) < IE *(s)lemb-, to hand down:  see LIMP]]

  (my note:  "do not let your hands hang limp!")

  1. [usually L-] in some Christian theologies the eternal abode or state, neither heaven nor hell, of the souls of infants or others dying in original sin but free of grievous personal sin, or, before the coming of Christ, the temporary abode or state of all holy souls after death

  2. any intermediate, indeterminate state

  3. a place or condition of confinement, neglect, or oblivion

  Pointless confinement?  Neglect?  Oblivion?  What have you forgotten, or, who is it that you think has forgotten you?  Not me.  Not Him.  You have asked for a sign, a spiritual experience...and He sent lil' ol' me.  Clearly I am not what you expected beyond.  But, He rarely, if ever, sends just who or what we expect.  You and I have touched each other on SC.  I just wanted you to know that you have touched me, forever.  It has been a pleasure, and the honor is all mine.  I hope that you are not too disappointed in me. 

  The bar is getting lower and lower my dear friend ; )  There are other dances that are much more fun.  Dances of a spirit that is free.  Won't you please join me?  I have the peace that you only long for.  I am not moved by my circumstances, or my emotions.  I know more and I have seen more beyond.  Blind faith was not enough for me either.  I had to have more, and He was Faithful.  He told, showed and taught me more than I ever asked, dreamed or imagined. 

  I have a question for you.  Was it your mother that taught you about God until you were 12?  Not about the church, but about God?  Or was it your step-father?

  Here is the crux of your present dilema, as I see it. 

  You said (bold/emphasis mine):

  "The bible is a book of riddles to not be taken seriously in a literal sense. One has to constantly go beyond the words and search for the wisdom. In religion I am incapable of finding a foundation for sincere and unalterable belief in divine personages, or a boat that holds two of everything on earth, or a mortal man who lifts a hand and parts a sea.

  (My note:  So you are tossed about on a sea of confusion instead?  How is that better?) 
  
  I had no foundation for anything at all until I found the new physics which gave me a footing, or permission, to believe a spirituality of sorts could exist in it's more worldly explanation that what was thought impossible was not impossible at all, but is the way things actually are. It showed me we live in an impossible world."

  I sense that you truly had no foundation.  No one told you who God is...not even to them?  One does truly have to go beyond the words and search for the wisdom....in ALL things.  Why would searching out wisdom bother you?  I love it.  I am here to give you permission to believe beyond.  Things are not as they seem.  You must look deeper to find the wisdom.

  Quantum mechanics or New Physics helped me to talk to people like you beyond.  It didn't give me a foundation.  I already had that.  You cannot ever build a house that lasts on a foundation that shifts, like science, which is only a representation of our current search to understand who we are, what our world is, and how it works.  The ultimate search for "why".  But our present understanding is always changing...thus, shifting.

  Remember when I told you that I wrote a story a long time ago, about a diner?  It was called The Potato Diner.  Once when I had a "follow up" dream ; )  I saw this Cosmic Diner, that was on an asteroid, a very large asteroid on a cosmic asteroid belt hurling through space.  It was so large though, that it gave the "feeling" of being solid.  Solid enough to have a piece of pie, a cup of tea or coffee and talk to another hungry traveller.  So, I left the Potato Diner and set up shop in the Cosmic Cafe instead.  I had to reach you.  I am a hunter, not a fisherman.  I am the second wave of God's plan for salvation.  You are worth it to Him and you are worth it to send me...a hunter, sent into every rock and crevice that you may try to hide in...even an asteroid belt.  How can you possibly think that He doesn't love you?    

   

  Love, love, love,

  Your friend and neighbor,

  Truthsayer

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