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un·e·mo·tion·al

un·e·mo·tion·al (ŭn´ĭ-mōʹshə-nəl) adjective

1.     Not easily stirred or moved in feeling.

2.     Involving little or no emotion; rational.

 

— un´e·moʹtion·al·ly adverb

 

The last few conversations on the subject of God have had an impact on me.  No, it has not weakened what I believe in the slightest, but I feel that since the opinions and views of many of you have been called into question, by some or one, you may appreciate a more learned point of view.  To that end I have found something in my stash of reading materials that also has a webpage A Templeton Conversation: Does science make belief in God obsolete?  These are essays of people with a greater depth of experience in their fields, and therefore I tend to place more credence in their POV than someone who does not seem to be able to keep what they believe in focus.  

 

I think that before one more word is written on the subject you should read the “YES” essay.  Unlike some of what I have read here this is a logically developed essay, not a diatribe of hate against the church, religion, people of faith, or those with other spiritual values and beliefs.  It’s not a debunking of the scriptures or of God, just a well-reasoned observation. 

 

Like many things, take it for what it’s worth; the opinions of our fellow human beings. I often challenge my own beliefs with well-reasoned, well thought out opinions to see if they stand up.  For me they do, for you they may not, but it’s up to you to decide. Let no person tell you ever that your ideas are old or without merit because they don’t mirror what someone says is a proven fact. It’s a decision that you have to make for yourself.  Peace and Long Life

 

Love Worf     

 

      



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Comments

  • kelly said on Sep 04, 2008....
    I don't think god will ever be any more obsolete than Santa Claus.
  • Mamie said on Sep 04, 2008....
    IS GOD UNNECESSARY....you teasin us worf? You know that God is VITAL!! did you need a new bag for your bible perchance? hehe
  • LtCmdrWorf1 said on Sep 04, 2008....
    Hey Guys
    I thought we could benefit from reading the opinions of some people who don't have an ax to grind.  If you click on the link you will find a variety  of opinions to choose from, some you may agree with some you may not, but they are well thought out. Peace and Long Life

    Love worf.
  • pickersplock said on Sep 04, 2008....
    Let's say for a second that God does not exist.
    Does that make the idea of God any less real?
     
    Does that make the ideas of love and forgiveness, of creation,  and of goodness less valid?
     
    If Justice is not a real living person, does justise not exist?
    If there is no living breathing Love, does love cease to exist?
     
    I think too many people are too wrapped up in the belief in the physical entity of God, that they forget the teachings and the ideas.
     
    All the evil that has been done in the name of God, has been done by men claiming to have a personal insight into the workings of his mind......and it has been a lie.
  • RollingC said on Sep 04, 2008....
    Yes God is vital to me. 
    Once upon a time I took Him for granted and could've even said that I wasn't sure but not anymore.  I need Him that makes me strong and sees me through hard times, guides me when I'm confused and lends His helping hand when I need it.

    Rc
  • StupidGenius said on Sep 04, 2008....

    Pickersplock - If God does not exist then the idea of god doesn’t mean anything, it’s a non-theory.

    I don’t think a god is needed in our society. I think we have evolved beyond the need, we are educated beyond the need for belief in a god, and everything religion provides, society can provide without it.

    I think everyone should decide for themselves whether they "need" a god to help them through life or not. But if you believe that you personally need a god then you should keep it personal and it should not be put in our school systems, put in our political system and not be pushed on others because as we know from history, that just causes war.

    SG
  • pickersplock said on Sep 04, 2008....
    SG, if a physical, bodily presence of Love does not exist, does that mean that love doesn't mean anything?  Is love obsolete as well?
  • StupidGenius said on Sep 04, 2008....

    Love is not obsolete. However it can be described in a more crude scientific way. I can give details if you require. Love is an umbrella term used to describe a multitude of physical and physiological requirements naturally selected over millions of years that aid the survival of the human race.

    SG

  • Scaramouche said on Sep 04, 2008....
    God is unnecessary, since god does not exist, but unfortunately, I've come to think that the idea of god is necessary simply because the earth is overrun with blithering morons, and religion is perhaps the only way to get them to behave themselves even a little.  It doesn't really work all that well, but it seems to work better than expecting the masses to think for themselves.  Totally sad, but probably necessary.
  • skald said on Sep 04, 2008....
    We  can deny god. say that there is no god. O;k we can talk about education, but at a moment of terrible fright or need of some kind we call god.I really need a better English word but I can't think of it.   We do it without thinking.

    Mankind has always needed god, there might be times when everything is alright and we don't think so.
  • StupidGenius said on Sep 04, 2008....

    You may need god in times of fear etc but I would rather not rely on him to save me, I would rather use my own naturally developed senses and deal with the fear logically.

    "Confront your fear and you will overcome it, Cover up your fear and it will bite you when you least expect it"

    SG

  • RollingC said on Sep 04, 2008....
    I've often heard the expression from ex-military friends of mine.....
    " There are no atheist in a foxhole "
    Rc
  • Scaramouche said on Sep 04, 2008....
    ...which is, of course, a complete fucking load of crap that theists repeat ad nauseam in the mistaken belief that it makes them sound clever.
  • RollingC said on Sep 04, 2008....
    Understanding God is impossible and those that are afraid of not understanding refuse to believe.
    :^)
    Rc
  • kelly said on Sep 04, 2008....
    Scaramouche makes a good point.  In fact, I can personally say that it's probably an untrue statement at best.  I am an atheist and I have also been a rock climber.  I've been in a couple of pretty scary situations and never, ever did I begin to think about praying or believing in some imaginary force to save me.  Mostly what I felt was just fear and a racing mind trying to figure out the safest maneuver.
  • RollingC said on Sep 05, 2008....
    Point taken as far as rock climbing goes....but the rock does not think and is not trying it's best to kill you.
    Which throws a whole different spin on things.
    Rc
    ps...and yes it's true. I'm from the Vietnam era and have met many combat veterans.
            Go ask them if they've ever met an atheist in a foxhole.
  • Scaramouche said on Sep 05, 2008....
    So, your personal sampling of Vietnam veterans has failed to turn up any atheists.  How did you go about determining their atheism?  Did they represent a reasonable cross-section of society?  Was your sample large enough that estimates of the frequency of atheists in the general population would suggest that you were not within the realm of statistical error before you even began your little survey?

    Oh wait.  You were just talking out your ass, weren't you?
  • RollingC said on Sep 05, 2008....
    Your attempts to insult me will get you nowhere scara...
    At the time I met my friends from Vietnam I was detached from the church myself but still acknowledged that in times of trouble (by habit of upbringing mostly) people turn, if only briefly, to God for help and safety.
    We never really discussed religion but comments were made about the fear that one goes through during a night of enemy shelling your positions.
    :^)
    Rc
    ps...Don't worry, God loves you too.
  • Scaramouche said on Sep 05, 2008....
    Well, thanks for skewering your own argument for me.  "by habit of upbringing"  There's the key.  Someone blissfully free of inculcated ignorance wouldn't be encumbered by theism, and hence wouldn't think to invoke 'booga-booga' invisible spooks when being fired upon.  A non-believer would be unlikely to spontaneously convert just because of an unbelievably stressful situation.

    P.S. - my imaginary pet bunny Reginald loves you too.
  • LtCmdrWorf1 said on Sep 05, 2008....
    SG,

    I see you've invited one of your friends.  An atheistic view is fine, but to try and denigrate others for their beliefs is childish and unnecessary and that's the problem I have with you and others like you.  Including your new friend above.  

    I see the conversation between you and RollingC.  You say that love can be explained in a crudely scientific manner.  No it can't.  I can explain the chemical reaction that makes one sexually excited, but it can't tell me why I find a person attractive.  Poets have been trying for centuries to define what love is and if you read any love poetry you will see that love is very subjective; like the spirituality of most people.    I Hope for You Peace and Long Life

    Love Worf 
  • Scaramouche said on Sep 05, 2008....
    Hmm.  Childish and unnecessary.  Just like god!

    'you and others like you' - honestly, what a cunt.
  • StupidGenius said on Sep 05, 2008....

    I’ve been busy most of the day so I haven’t had time to read all of the comments. I have just finished reading them and my reply to selected individuals in as follows;

    Rolling; your generalisation that Atheists are cowards is utter rubbish. It’s unfounded. While in Vietnam shooting the enemy in the head, how did you manage to "Make up" with your god when he preaches?

    Matt. 5:44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you...

    You are so full of rubbish. Your view is so warped its sad. I feel sorry for you and those around you. Grow up. Get an education and then use your brain... when you find it.

    Worf

    I didn’t invite anyone, and why do you claim we are friends because we are both Atheists. As atheists we are free thinkers and have opinions about a wide range of things. He has put rolling in his place so good luck to him.

    Didn’t I say Love was an umbrella term encompassing a wide range of physiological and physiological responses? You didn’t read that far I guess, or the words were to long for you to understand? Anyway. Love can be explained. If you would like me to explain it then just ask. Its not like when you asked a girl out for the first time, I will say yes not "get lost you loser".

    SG

  • LtCmdrWorf1 said on Sep 06, 2008....
    RollingC,

    Don't waste your time arguing with Idiot people.  Peace and Long Life

    Love Worf
  • StupidGenius said on Sep 07, 2008....

    You didn’t even argue worf, you just gave up and accepted defeat. That’s your problem. Just because you don’t have anything intelligent to say doesn’t mean other people don’t.

    SG

  • silverwhisper said on Sep 07, 2008....
    this is a false dichotomy here, worf.

    science or trust in it doesn't make things obsolete b/c science & religion seek to answer wholly different questions.

    science answers the question of how; religion answers the question of why.

    ed
  • StupidGenius said on Sep 08, 2008....

    Science does answer the question of why. Why does an object fall to the ground when dropped from a height? Why do liquids of high temperature burn the skin? Why do we get goose bumps? Why do we get ill? Why do viruses affect our immune system? Etc etc

    Religion doesn’t seek to answer any questions, as it inherently believes it has all the answers already.

    SG
  • one_wired_kitty said on Sep 08, 2008....
    I think science and religion can go together on some things ... but on others, its probably like putting the square peg through a hole that isn't there.
  • RollingC said on Sep 08, 2008....
    Science answers the question of how....as to the physical characteristics of a given action or subject.
    Religion answers the question of why....as to the purpose of existence on any given thing....as God made/created all things, and that would be the simple bottom line.
    Rc
  • kelly said on Sep 08, 2008....
    "science answers the question of how; religion answers the question of why."

    I respectfully beg to differ.  Science is highly driven by the 'why.'  People want to know why things are they way they are and so they study them.  Religion ultimately doesn't have any answers.  Or more to the point, religions answers are mostly 'because I said so.'

    Science is a far more empowering outlook on the universe, and one that does not preclude transcendent human emotion.
  • StupidGenius said on Sep 09, 2008....

    Kelly made my point more politely than I was going to.

    SG               

     

  • RollingC said on Sep 10, 2008....
    Sure science is driven by the why....but to get there they have to go through the how first and science usually stays within the physical how and why phase, not the philosophical how and why which I think (if I may take the liberty of interpretation) is what Silverwhisper meant.
    Rc
  • StupidGenius said on Sep 10, 2008....

    Philosophical how's and why's are basically speculation. They are the "I think this is how" and "I think this is why". They are not Truth, Fact or evidence for anything. Everyone should be at the very least agnostic because the church, mosque or synagogue making an assertion of truth is no different that me claiming I am god. It is no more than a leap of faith and can’t be backed up in anyway, shape or form.

    SG

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