• SeanRenaud said on Aug 30, 2008....

  Is the point your making that being physically attractive is a detriment?

• TinSoldier said on Aug 30, 2008....

  Well, he didn't post any commentary...
  
  Being hot isn't/shouldn't be the issue. The issue is, conservative credentials aside, many women voters are seeing this as more of a cynical ploy than as a principled choice.
  
  I don't see many Clinton supporters voting for McCain because of this pick, and maybe even a few who said they would vote for McCain might just jump back to the Democratic party over it. I don't know about moderate Republican women who might otherwise vote for McCain. I'm sure strong conservative women are pretty pleased with the choice, though, along with some other conservatives.
  
  I know that most of the people over at Republicans for Obama are pretty pissed about the choice, though.
  

• SeanRenaud said on Aug 30, 2008....

  No he didn't so we work with what we are given.  A title and a magazine cover.  I would assume without qualifying details tha the point is we are putting a model one heart beat away from the presidentry.  To which I would argue there are plenty of inteligent (or at least educated) models, actresses, porn stars, entertainers of all kinds.  Of course I'm putting words in his mouth but still the context is there.
   
  I agree that not many Clinton supporters SHOULD vote for McCain, this is an obvious ploy and Pelin is pretty far right.  But what is it about a woman scorned?

• bloc said on Aug 30, 2008....

  My main point was the continued hypocrisy of the republican party. They blasted Obama for being a "celebrity" then they pick her for VP. 
  
  
  Also, the Republican party is always slamming democrats due to pomp and circumstance. Remember the SMB's of the world were blasting Clinton and asking "How could she successfully negotiate with a country like Iran because she's a female". If they don't respect women in general they surely aren't going to respect beauty queens. 
  
  
  Third, she has recently said that she hasn't been able to keep up with what's going on in Iraq and they she doesn't know what the VP does. I think these raise valid issues considering that McCain is really old and she would have a very real chance of becoming President if McCain is elected.

• TinSoldier said on Aug 30, 2008....

  
  I think the "doesn't know what the VP does" more as a dig at the job itself, a job that few really want. That's the way I viewed it. She would much rather be the governor of Alaska, the top dog in a small  pond rather than an "also-ran" VP.
  
  
  
  
  Do you have a link for the Iraq thing?
  
  Either way, it's still early. I think time will tell, and I look forward to the VP debates.
  

• bloc said on Sep 02, 2008....

  "While Sarah was Mayor of Wasilla she tried to fire our highly respected City Librarian because the Librarian refused to consider removing from the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents rallied to the defense of the City Librarian and against Palin's attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter."
  More here

• SeanRenaud said on Sep 02, 2008....

  "Like most Alaskans, she favors drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge."
   

• bloc said on Sep 02, 2008....

  "Q: Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?
  
  SP: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support."

• bloc said on Sep 02, 2008....

  and some words from her pastor.
  
  
  “The purpose for the United States is… to glorify God. This nation is a Christian nation.”

• SeanRenaud said on Sep 02, 2008....

  I don't care about her pastor, or Obama's or McCains.
   
  Actually SC cut me off.  on my previous post.
   
  Do you know if most Alaskans really do support drilling ANWR?  I mean if the people closest to this 'problem' are for moving foward I don't really understand what the argument against it is? 
   
  I also enjoyed that as much as Republicans like to say that Dems 'buy' votes by offering new government programs she literaly buys votes in the form of thousand dollar checks every year.  I'd like to see how they settle that one aside from the famous ALIEN she's got an R next to her name not a D for Demon and thus it's ok rationalization.

• bloc said on Sep 02, 2008....

  @sean
  did you read the link on the one about the librarian? It had some fascinating commentary on her fiscal policies.
  
  
  I don't care too much about pastors either, but if Obama has to explain his then the other side should have to explain theirs.

• SeanRenaud said on Sep 02, 2008....

  Yeah I read the link about the librarian.  Like I said about her fiscal policies, how dare the Right say that Dems try to buy votes by offering social policies and not pillory her for actually sending out fucking checks!  I mean I'm usually the last person to call hypocrisy, usually I'm the guys saying it's not the exact same situation and thus can't be compared but WTF!!!!!!!

• TinSoldier said on Sep 02, 2008....

  Right now, they're talking about how either Palin or her husband is somehow affiliated with the Alaska Independence Party.

• TinSoldier said on Sep 02, 2008....

  Sean, what are you talking about? Oil revenue checks given to citizens of Alaska existed long before Palin was born, I believe, much less when she got in office.
  
  
  Think of it as a financial incentive to get folks to live there. *shrug* I don't see it as any kind of "buying votes" or whatever. 

• bloc said on Sep 02, 2008....

  @tin
  the problem with palin sending out those checks is that she was simultaneously borrowing money to pay for infrastructure. 

• TinSoldier said on Sep 02, 2008....

  Okay. I still don't see the connection. That kind of infrastructure stuff is what the Feds do, no matter what anyone else says for it.
  
  
  If the Feds offer me money, I'm gonna take it.
  
  
  Wait -- she was borrowing money? From whom?

• bloc said on Sep 02, 2008....

  bonds

• TinSoldier said on Sep 02, 2008....

  Ahh. I see.
  
  
  But those are two different funds the way I understand it. Cut off Alaskans' oil payments and you'd see a whole bunch of bipartisan pissed off I'd wager, whether that would be "fiscally conservative" or not.

• bloc said on Sep 02, 2008....

  this is the most comprehensive summary I've seen of here background.

• stopmediabias said on Sep 03, 2008....

  I love this, you guys are so scared you are coming unhinged.  It just kills you that she has more experience than Obama and she's in the VP spot.  She also took the historic steam out of Obama's run.  Sit back watch, all the free passes Obama is getting in the media are about to change. 

• SeanRenaud said on Sep 03, 2008....

  We'll see tonight is major make or break.  Granted California is pretty liberal as whole but out here even the right wing blow hards are ripping into her.  Of five conservative hopes only Rush is squarely behind her and these are guys who deeply don't want Obama to win but none think that Palin is a good choice thus far.  She gets her shake down tonight to see if she can survive direct fire so we'll see. 

• TinSoldier said on Sep 03, 2008....

  
  

• stopmediabias said on Sep 03, 2008....

  I think the picture is funny because you guys wanted to look at Hillary for 4 years :>

• SeanRenaud said on Sep 03, 2008....

  As much as I wish he was going to be president why are there still Ron Paul signs?  LEt's be fair though Obama survived trial by fire so it's not impossible

• TinSoldier said on Sep 03, 2008....

  I didn't want Hillary! If she had gotten the nomination I'd definitely be voting for McCain this year...
  
  
  Ron Paul had his own convention of sorts.

• bloc said on Sep 03, 2008....

  haha, I don't think smb watched the youtube. 

• TinSoldier said on Sep 03, 2008....

  Watching the speech right now, I'm still waiting for her to say something.
  
  
  I swore that I would never vote for Hillary Clinton. However, if she were running against Sarah Palin? I probably would.

• stopmediabias said on Sep 04, 2008....

  bloc-I don't or very rarely watch Youtube posts on SC

  Tin-I think you are officially full of shit, I don't think you ever a Republican. 

• TinSoldier said on Sep 04, 2008....

  You're right, SMB. I'm seriously reconsidering remaining a Republican. Maybe I'll become a "Reagan Democrat".
  
  
  But I have been a Republican for about twenty years or so now, and I don't necessarily think I should quit because I no longer accept the orthodoxy.
  
  
  Whatever happened to the "Big Tent"? You can be in our big tent as long as you don't complain too loudly about the things with which you disagree, or try to convince others of your point of view?

• bloc said on Sep 04, 2008....

  I can assure you, smb, that tin is not a liberal. But, I agree with you, he is not a republican if by republican we mean the current republican party.

• stopmediabias said on Sep 04, 2008....

  Tin-I understand everything, except for one thing and that's abortion.  I can't imagine anyone not voting for Palin but voting for Clinton and being against abortion.

• TinSoldier said on Sep 04, 2008....

  SMB -- for one, my views on abortion have moderated a bit but I'm still anti-abortion and I'm for the repeal of Roe.
  
  
  But I refuse to be a one-issue voter. There are other issues that are important to me, though. I do hate to have to tradeoff like that but it's the nature of the beast I guess.
  
  
  Oh, and I don't remember if it was here or elsewhere, but someone asked "Wouldn't it be nice if we could choose our candidates a la carte? That is, a little bit of this view, a little bit of that."

• stopmediabias said on Sep 11, 2008....

  For me if John McCain was on my side on every issue except was "pro-choice" and Barack Obama on the other side on every issue but was pro-life, I would probably vote for Obama.

  It's a tough one. 

• SeanRenaud said on Sep 11, 2008....

  Why?  That way of thinking seems to be dangerously unhinged/

• bloc said on Sep 11, 2008....

  to die hard neocons 4 celled eggs are more important than giving healthcare to breathing children that we can look in the eyes.

• SeanRenaud said on Sep 11, 2008....

  to be fair liberals are concerned with making sure that the terrorists who fly planes into buildings are set free if they aren't read their miranda rights. . . in a language they understand.

• bloc said on Sep 11, 2008....

  that's complete bullshit. Believing that there should be a minimum of due process is not anything close to what you claim. It is such bullshit that I dare you to show me a case of any well known liberal making a claim about miranda rights for terrorists. This is bullshit put out in palin the liars speech.
  
  
  What I stated is not an exaggeration at all. Simply ask a neocon.

• bloc said on Sep 11, 2008....

  btw, it shows how effective propaganda is when a smart honest person like yourself repeats it.

• bloc said on Sep 12, 2008....

  "

  Calling it "the foundation of Anglo-American law," he said the principle "says very simply: If the government grabs you, then you have the right to at least ask, 'Why was I grabbed?' And say, 'Maybe you've got the wrong person.'"

  The safeguard is essential, Obama continued, "because we don't always have the right person."

  "We don't always catch the right person," he said. "We may think it's Mohammed the terrorist, but it might be Mohammed the cab driver. You might think it's Barack the bomb-thrower, but it might be Barack the guy running for president."

  Obama turned back to Palin's comment, although he said he was not sure whether Palin or Rudy Giuliani said it.

  "The reason that you have this principle is not to be soft on terrorism. It's because that's who we are. That's what we're protecting," Obama said, his voice growing louder and the crowd rising to its feet to cheer. "Don't mock the Constitution. Don't make fun of it. Don't suggest that it's not American to abide by what the founding fathers set up. It's worked pretty well for over 200 years.""

  
  

  Please Sean, why would you misrepresent this? Where is letting go of a terrorist due to miranda rights mentioned?
  

• SeanRenaud said on Sep 12, 2008....

  Because BOTH statements are utter hogwash.  The right gives more money in donations, does more hours of community service and are disproportionately represented in child shelters but you're going on about how they care more about four cells than they do about actual people.  They seem to demonstrate a great deal of caring (some of it misplaced such as their stubborn opposal the euthanasia) toward the living.

• bloc said on Sep 12, 2008....

  yet millions of children in this country go without medical care and they are concerned about 4 cells.
  
  Also, charity is selective. do you have to attend their church to have a better chance to get it? Do you have to be white to have a better chance to get it?
  
  Again, this is simple. Should our government ensure that all children get medical care? Should 4 cells be "saved"?
  
  Ask those two questions and my statement holds.
  

• stopmediabias said on Sep 12, 2008....

  Bloc-millions of children in this country go without medical care?  How many children citizen or even non-citizen would be turned away in an emergency room?

  4 cells?  I've always wondered what on earth that means.  Once a sperm fertilizes an egg and it begins to grow it forms it's own unique DNA and person, it is far from four cells.

  Terrorists grabbed on the battlefield deserve nothing, no due process, no rights, nothing except to be thrown in a dark hole until all of their friends are captured.  Luckily for them we don't do that.  We give them three squares a day, a chance to whorship and exercise and access to lawyers.

  My take on abortion is not some stupid neocon reaction to what I believe is murder.  I think to say it is murder is a stretch.  I'm in my 30's and as a sophomore in highschool I saw that NOVA video on childbirth where they video document a birth from start to finish.  Ever since then I have always held that abortion is appalling and wrong.  This is one of the richest countries in the world that will house serial killers and child molestors until they get fat and drop dead of a heart attack and at the same time we rob the unborn of life.  We can stop abortion, either by preventing a pregnancy in the first place or finding a place for the unwanted child.  With this and the fact that abortion is in a number of ways bad for woman, this is why I will never agree with abortion. 

• bloc said on Sep 12, 2008....

  "How many children citizen or even non-citizen would be turned away in an emergency room?"
  
  This is disingenuous. First, if you agree that we should cover all children then we should do it with real insurance and not an emergency room policy which is more expensive. Second, Forcing people to use an emergency room for insurance makes people wait before getting treatment they need. Early treatment is almost always more effective and cheaper.
  
  "Once a sperm fertilizes an egg and it begins to grow it forms it's own unique DNA and person, it is far from four cells."
  
  No, it literally is 4 cells for a period after fertilization. Then it is 8 cells, etc. A tiny cluster of cells the size of the period at the end of this sentence is not a full fledged human being.
  

• bloc said on Sep 12, 2008....

  @sean
  you realize that smb proved my point right?

• stopmediabias said on Sep 13, 2008....

  bloc-

  "This is disingenuous. First, if you agree that we should cover all children then we should do it with real insurance and not an emergency room policy which is more expensive."

  You said millions of children go without medical care.  You are pulling a Michael Moore.  His whole movie blurrs the difference between "health care" and "health coverage."  Every person in this country has health care, but does not necassarily have health coverage.  John McCain says the problem with our health care system is it cost to much.  Bingo! 

  People need to be held personally responsible.  In 2005 the Census bureau reported nearly 80% of the people in this country have health coverage.  The other 20% need to get insurance or they have to pay for an emergency room.

  If the government raises taxes and hands people something they don't directly pay for they will abuse it.  This is why our system is the best in the world (outside of the price gouging issue) because it keeps people from going to the doctor for a papercut.  Preventative medicine is an education issue.  Most people have PM and don't use it.  There should be education that tells us when (at what age) we should get checked for cancer or other deadly things. 

  My point of view (as far as you 4 cells to 8 cells issue), lets take a baby and rewind.  You snuff out the 4 cells way back when, versus walking up to a 1 year old baby and injecting it with poison and watching it go to sleep.  Both have unique DNA which makes them individual and unique.  If you take the fetus from two seperate abortions you'll find seperate DNA strands.  The end result is the same, there is a termination of a unique human life.  

• bloc said on Sep 13, 2008....

  @sean
  
  again, smb proves my point. We shouldn't give children handouts and we should treat 4 cells as a full fledged human being.
  

• SeanRenaud said on Sep 13, 2008....

  He only proves your point if I get to use Sheltercrow as proof that liberals would deliver George Bush to Osama as a peace offering.
   
  The problem he's not understanding is that people DO use the emergency room for paper cuts because they lack coverage.  That's a separate issue though.

• bloc said on Sep 13, 2008....

  "He only proves your point if I get to use Sheltercrow as proof that liberals would deliver George Bush to Osama as a peace offering."
  
  
  I don't agree because mainstream republicans hold the same view as smb on this. Mainstream libs do not hold the same views as sheltercrow. If we asked any pro life republican they would have the same view as smb would they not?

• SeanRenaud said on Sep 13, 2008....

  Touche.
   
  I would still say that not supporting UHC and not carring about children isn't the same.  Not any more so than not being a socialist/communist means you don't care about people.

• bloc said on Sep 13, 2008....

  i agree with you, but i think that obsessing about tiny cells while not helping breathing kids is misguided.  

• SeanRenaud said on Sep 13, 2008....

  It is

• stopmediabias said on Sep 13, 2008....

  "zzzzzzzzooooommmmmm!" as my point zips right over your heads.

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