• TinSoldier said on Aug 28, 2008....

  Dude, it's kinda like Bill Clinton said the other day:
  
  "Suppose you’re a voter, and you’ve got candidate X and candidate Y. Candidate X agrees with you on everything, but you don’t think that candidate can deliver on anything at all. Candidate Y you agree with on about half the issues, but he can deliver. Which candidate are you going to vote for?"
  
  
  For me, Obama is "candidate Y".
  
  I still believe in the ideals the Republican party claims to believe, and I believe in the ideals that the GOP represented in the past. Call me when the Republican party believes in them again.
  
  
  

• bloc said on Aug 28, 2008....

  i don't think you agree with their claims on things like stem cell research. They just changed their party platform to make their view on stem cell research more extreme. source and source. I also believe you disagree with their stated positions on civil liberties and torture.

• TinSoldier said on Aug 28, 2008....

  I disagree with what this administration has done with regards to civil liberties and torture. Do you have a party platform issue on civil liberties? Because I confess that I haven't taken time to read the Democratic platform because it's so long and I know the Republican one is not yet finished.
  
  While I am pro-life I'm kind of ambivalent on the stem-cell thing. I think that I disagree with a blanket ban though. This is the kind of stuff that I'm rebelling against.
  
  I'm not saying that I agree with every plank of the platform, just like I disagree with many planks in the Democratic party platform (especially Roe v. Wade).
  

• TinSoldier said on Aug 28, 2008....

  I support the 2004 plank on stem cell research:
  
  Stem Cell Research
  Republicans have supported, and will continue to support, important scientific
  research without undermining the fundamental ethical principles that have guided
  medical research in this country for decades. We especially welcome and encourage a stronger emphasis on adult stem cell and cord blood stem cell research, which has already provided benefits to hundreds of patients and provides real promise for treatments to help millions of Americans.
  
  We recognize that President Bush made a carefully considered decision to allow
  federal funding for stem cell research for the first time, and did not affect stem cell
  research in the private sector. We strongly support the President’s policy that prevents taxpayer dollars from being used to encourage the future destruction of human embryos. In addition, we applaud the President’s call for a comprehensive ban on human cloning and on the creation of human embryos solely for experimentation.
  
  In August 2001, President Bush stated: “[T]he hope [it] offers is amazing…. Yet
  the ethics of medicine are not infinitely adaptable. There is at least one bright line: We do not end some lives for the medical benefit of others.” We wholeheartedly agree.
  
  
  I disagree with constitutional amendments regarding gay marriage, abortion, flag burning, etc.
  
  

• bloc said on Aug 28, 2008....

  what is the source of your view on abortion/stem cell research? There is a certain pattern I'm fascinated by and this issue fits that pattern. I'll get into that later ;)

• TinSoldier said on Aug 28, 2008....

  What is the source of my view on abortion? I discussed it in one of silverwhisper's posts. Let me see if I can find a link...
  
  http://www.soulcast.com/post/show/54475/on-the-nature-of-abortion-debate
  
  Probably another post somewhere too. I remember you and I discussing it once or twice and coming, not quite to a consensus but almost.
  
  As for the stem cell bits? Well, it's just an extension of the same debate.
  

• TinSoldier said on Aug 28, 2008....

  http://www.soulcast.com/post/show/96173/pushing-the-hot-button:-abortion
  
  http://www.soulcast.com/post/show/92111/Pro~Life%3F
  
  I think that ed had another one somewhere...
  

• bloc said on Aug 28, 2008....

  well, your "pro-life" sounds like my "pro-life" which is distinctly different from theocons "pro-life". Carl Sagan wrote a good essay called something like, "can I be pro-life and pro-choice?"

• bloc said on Aug 28, 2008....

  another fascinating thing I learned recently. Conception isn't an event. It's a process that takes a day or two ;)

• stopmediabias said on Aug 29, 2008....

  "sigh"

  Tin you have obviously have been reading to much bloc and maybe a little Sheltercrow.

  If I am correct you are a pissed off Republican who is prolife, and voting for Obama.  McCain is a moderate and is pro-life.

  So am I correct in hearing you are pro-life Republican voting for Obama.  Won't that like rip a large hole in the universe?:>

  I have to honest also, I kind of chuckled when you quoted Bill Clinton after calling Republicans morally bankrupt.

• stopmediabias said on Aug 29, 2008....

  "sigh"

  Tin you have obviously have been reading to much bloc and maybe a little Sheltercrow.

  If I am correct you are a pissed off Republican who is prolife, and voting for Obama.  McCain is a moderate and is pro-life.

  So am I correct in hearing you are pro-life Republican voting for Obama.  Won't that like rip a large hole in the universe?:>

  I have to honest also, I kind of chuckled when you quoted Bill Clinton after calling Republicans morally bankrupt.

• bloc said on Aug 29, 2008....

  some studies have found that adultery occurs in about 50% of marriages. I guess SMB thinks the American people are morally bankrupt. 
  
  
  And I guess he thinks adultery is worse than torture and the removal of due process from americans.

• TinSoldier said on Aug 29, 2008....

  I would hope that adultery doesn't happen in 50% of marriages.
  
  I think when it comes to being "pro-life" the Republican party has been more talk than action. Although I admit that my views have become a bit more moderate of late. I'm still opposed to abortions though.
  
  Taxes: I think that taxes across the board are too low with a war to fight and everything. Like bloc has said -- I support modest tax increases and either holding steady on spending or cutting a little there too. Then we can look at which things are important to us as a society to provide to the neediest among us and have a discussion about it.
  
  So WRT taxes, both candidates are promising more cuts, but Obama's are less than McCain's, so I gotta go with what is offered me.
  
  I'm still in favor of free trade but I would like to see some way to keep more/better jobs in the US, and/or to provide better education and training for youth and displaced workers.
  
  I am more likely to agree with McCain WRT the Iraq war; but I don't want to see Afghanistan fall through the cracks again like it did in the '80s.
  
  I don't mind reading bloc and sheltercrow. I don't mind having my preconceived notions challenged. Critical thinking is hard work but it's important to be an informed citizen. Even if some of the things I read are untrue it's important to know what is being said.
  
  And as bloc said, torture -- or acts that are close enough to torture that the common man doesn't need a memo to determine whether they are -- and due process are very important to all Americans. Those shouldn't even be partisan issues.
  

• bloc said on Aug 29, 2008....

  I tried to look up the stats for adultery earlier. Oddly they range from about 15% to 80%! I read a convincing critique that made me believe the 15% was way too low (they did the surveys in person at the persons home and how many people that feel guilty will look someone in the eye and say "i cheated"). I figured 50% was a safe mid point. 

• husbandhater said on Aug 29, 2008....

  SO McCain Picked a woman toreplace Hill? Hill is unreplaceable! Haha So sad too bad. I love Obama my Y candidate. Tin Obama is Y for me.

• husbandhater said on Aug 29, 2008....

  My my my how the mighty have fallen. HAHAHAHAHAHA!

• TinSoldier said on Aug 29, 2008....

  Heh -- me too.
  
  Some others I know on the internet mentioned Palin as a possible pick for McCain's VP. I was pretty sure that he would have to pick either a woman or a person of color (or whatever I'm trying to say by "not another white male").
  
  I think she's an interesting pick, but she's taking all kinds of abuse over at the Republicans for Obama site. I shudder to think of how she's being abused on some of the truly Democratic sites. While I think she's a lightweight relatively, I do think the criticism is a bit out of proportion.
  
  I think this choice is more for McCain's base than for getting any Clinton supporters. Most women see it as a gimmick, whether it is or it isn't; and Palin is way more socially conservative than almost any Clinton supporter could vote for.
  
  Still, I hope this is a new trend in American politics -- major party tickets that do not consist of two white males.
  

• stopmediabias said on Aug 30, 2008....

  bloc-see this is where you are mistaken, I don't care about Clinton's serial skirt chasing, I like woman myself.  He's morally corrupt because he committed perjury while the number 1 representative of America.
   
  Tin-my opinion on taxes is our government can do whatever they need without raising our taxes and throughout our times when the government gives Americans more of their money it sparks growth which in turn leads to more revenue.
   
  I can usually handle bloc, but Shelter is one of these 9/11 inside-job conspiracy nutcases.
   
  I've resigned myself to the fact that bloc and I will never agree on the torture/due process issues.
   
   

• bloc said on Aug 30, 2008....

  perjury about sex where as the Bush admin committed perjury about outing a CIA agent.
  
  
  
  

• stopmediabias said on Aug 31, 2008....

  You know no CIA agent was outed and you know that the whole Plame/Wilson thing is a big fat joke.  If the Bush admin wanted to destroy Valerie Plame because of her husband New York Slimes article they could have just fired her.

• peteypete said on Aug 31, 2008....

  question for tinsoldier- What if anything has Obama delivered other than a few speeches that makes you think "he can deliver"?
  bloc- What exactly is the crime, perjury itself or whatever it is that one might be lying about?
  husbandhater- can you give three reasons why Obama is your canidate? The catch is this : you can't mention Bush,Cheney,McCain,oil,Iraq,Afganistan or for God's sake CHANGE. The question is this simple, why is he the man for the job?Not why is the other guy no good.

• TinSoldier said on Aug 31, 2008....

  peteypete -- what has he delivered? Not much, yet, except hope. But I look at the last eight years and a lot of the things that have gone wrong with civil liberties and the economy, issues that bloc and I can agree upon.
  
  Yes, I think that voting for him is a risk. But I no longer trust the Republican party, and even John McCain, who I respect, to deliver the things they say they believe in. And I also think they are wrong on some issues.
  
  Basically I hope for two things: 1) that Obama can deliver on some of his promises on issues that I agree with (the economy, infrastructure, and international standing). 2) that the GOP will get a wakeup call and the leadership of the party can step back and take a good long look at what they truly believe, and how to regain the trust of moderates like me.
  
  One way to put it is this: for too long the idea of government has been "them". But in a democracy like ours, government is "us". So the first step was making government the enemy which makes us the enemy.
  
  From that idea came the idea of "we can't do that" instead of the mantra of "yes we can" coming from the Obama camp. I liken it to the Marshall Plan, or the moon shot, or the Interstate Highway System -- all things that "we can't" do. And yet we did.
  
  At the time they were not fiscally conservative. They were not any kind of conservative. And yet we did them and both the world and the US are better off because of these initiatives. I'm hoping that we can get that same kind of spirit together again to work on our infrastructure and our health care system and our economy.
  
  Do I know that this will happen and is not just a lot of pretty words? No, I do not. But I'm almost positive that it won't happen at all if McCain is elected president.
  
  Another question occurs to me -- what's in it for me if McCain is elected? More pride in my country? A better job? Safety and security? Lower gas prices? More freedom (from what?)
  
  Let's just say that I'm skeptical. I don't even think that McCain would have any part in overturning Roe v. Wade (which I would like to see).
  

• peteypete said on Aug 31, 2008....

  Tin, understood. It is good to have hope (it is hard to come by theses days). I urge you to remain skeptical. I really believe that whoever wins we lose. Perhaps, lower gas prices are the only thing that we have to look forward to.

• TinSoldier said on Aug 31, 2008....

  Heh -- well I told my in-laws a couple of months ago that I didn't think that gas prices would drop below $4 per gallon.
  
  Apparently I was wrong about that one!
  

• peteypete said on Aug 31, 2008....

  Good, can you tell them now that it won't drop less than $3.

• D6fer said on Sep 01, 2008....

  Tin......I can't tell you what will happen if McCain is elected, but i can tell you what will happen if Obama is......1st of all, the Democrats already control both the House and the Senate.....and it looks like they may increase that control, so obama will have a  Congress that will give him what he wants.......now lets look at what he wants:
  
  He wants to "punish" corporations with higher taxes.....lets say you are running one of these corporations, and your expenses go up because Uncle Sam "punishes" you......you still have to answer to your shareholders, so what do you do? You pass the "punishment" down to the consumer.....so who pays? We do.
  
  He wants to have a universal health care plan......just like in Canada......longer waits.....higher cancer mortality rates and in the U.S. we have almost twice the obesity and related illnesses....how are these longer waits going to affect those folks? Remember the free cheese lines? Who was in them? Was it only the poor? no it wasn't.......if you make health care "free" it will become more abused than it already is....bad idea.
  
  He has supported partial birth abortion (source).......is that what you want from your candidate y?
  
  Do you think his energy policy is a strong one? McCain wants to drill....Obama want to inflate your tires.
  
  All of this aside......I do feel your pain with the GOP.......but I think the Dems have their own problems.....and Voting in Obama as punishment is not the answer......more people need to get vocal and involved....we stopped the immigration bill in it's tracks when we flooded the offices of our Congressmen with e-mails, faxes, and phone calls....as  well as the Dubai ports deal.....we can make a difference, but it would be much easier to make that difference under McCain than Obama......come back to the party Tin....and help take it back!
  

• bloc said on Sep 01, 2008....

  whenever someone says that the wait is longer in canada you know that they aren't counting the millions of americans that don't have insurance. That's a disingenuous argument in my book.

• D6fer said on Sep 01, 2008....

  insured vs insured....that's apples and apples bloc.

• andora said on Sep 02, 2008....

  tin,
  why is the vitriol about Palin's experience exaggerated? This has been McCains warcry against Obama throughout the past weeks! Now he wants it both ways? Especially after Obama put the experience issue to rest after picking Biden. predictable!
  

• andora said on Sep 02, 2008....

  SMB said:
  
  
  "bloc-see this is where you are mistaken, I don't care about Clinton's serial skirt chasing, I like woman myself.  He's morally corrupt because he committed perjury while the number 1 representative of America."
  
  SMB this is where you and I absolutely agree!
  
  The first time Clinton ran I voted for him because Gore claimed to put the environment up into a priority slot. However, I voted for Nadar in the next two elections because I knew Clinton was a clever liar before it was proven with his statements about "the real meaning of 'is'"!!!!!!!!!
  
  Nadar is the ONLY REAL CONSERVATIVE! when you study his beaurocricy that he ran for decades in the Washington sleeze pool, one can only come to the conclusion that he represented the concerns of conservatives more than W ever did! I'm tired of hearing extremists call themselves 'Conservative'...it hurts!
  
   
  
  

• andora said on Sep 02, 2008....

  petypete,
  I'd like to answer the trick question about why Obama?
  
  1) he can change the polarized conversation
  
  2) he wants to include the youth to make a difference:
      a) for civil service they can get college funds
      b) he inspires our youth to get involved with American politics
  
  3) already gave three but here goes:
      a) he's from Hawaii
      b) voted against the Iraqi war
      c) eloquently speaks truth to power
      d) faithful husband
      e) anti-war  - pro-diplomacy
  
  4)  Obama wants to be a world leader in 'Green Industry' (duh)
  
  5) Wants to address poverty
  
  6) Wants to address corporate crime
  
  7) Understands the principle of 'civil rights'
  
  8) Can mobilize the populace (fund-raising proves this)
  
  9) Has respect for the sovereignty of other nations
  
  10) Wants to take HMO'S out of the healthcare industry
  
  I've got more...much more than just 3...these are valid issues that McCain refuses to address (other than adopting some of them)
  
  Why I would not ever vote for McCain
  
  1) says he supports the troops but votes against them everytime
  2) called his wife a whore when she made a comment about his hair
  3) talks about war as a solution
  4) too old
  5)battling cancer
  6) chose a beauty queen whose ideals do not inspire her own children
  7) voted for invasion of Iraq
  8) thinks that the 'surge' is a political solution in a religious war
  9) rich and out of touch with the average American
  10) calls himself a Maverick while voting over 90% with Bush
  11) says he's against 'politics as usual', while having Lieberman as his ventriloquist puppet master
  12) says he does not like religious extremists but hugged Falwell to get votes
  13) is an adulterer
  14) filled with hate about having to suck ass in public with people like Falwell
  15) voted against 'Martin Luther King Day' and is stupid enough to speak at the site of Kings assassination with a black man holding his umbrella
  16) Makes decisions from a reactionary 'gotcha' point of reference as proven by his VP pick
  17) he sold his soul to party politics and Bush/Cheney war criminals
  

• andora said on Sep 02, 2008....

  SMB,
  
  I guess you sold your soul when you sided with the Cheney/Bush cabal about outing a CIA agent. They did and you know it...how can you deny something so obviously treasonous!
  
  Cheney accused anti-war people as un-patriotic while destroying the career of a CIA agent. He blew her cover to cover-up the sleazy lies perpetrated against the world and every US citizen in that UN moment when he deliberately set up Colin Powell to take his fall
  
  I guess you (SMB) want to also deny that Ray Hunt (Bush/Cheney top financial supporter) got a major oil deal with the Kurds in Northern Iraq prior to the nation even creating a power-sharing deal or an oil revenue sharing plan - this actually subverted our so-called attempts to end the civil war in that country - and if it weren't for the Anbar citizens choosing to oppose Al Queda we would still be losing thousands of innocent soldiers who are fighting a corporate war.
  
  We who do not sell lies in the name of patriotism want to know how you can ignore the obvious and call yourself patriotic?
  

• peteypete said on Sep 02, 2008....

  What the hell does Change the polarized conversation mean? (by the way you obviously couldn't help to use the word "change".I'll let that one slide.)
   
  He wants to use the youth as cheap labor,perhaps. And, in all seriousness the prospect of the youth that may be refered to in this plan are not in any way representative of a competent use of tax dollars.That by the way is how we not Obama or the kids mama will pay for their education. Only we will pay their salaries too.Nice.
  The involvement of  youth in politics is good.Now, I want you to ask the first 18 year old you see who and why he/she is voting. Get back to me with the enlightened answer. Because of change is different will no doubt be the reply.
   
  The Hawaii thing I'm guessing was a joke.
  (You mentioned Iraq. So no point there)
  Eloquent speakers are often blessed with the ability to bullshit.(just pour some honey on it)
  Faithful husband ( are we sure?) I am sure that you liked Clinton and he was pretty good so, I am not sure of the relevance.
   
  Not always anti-war
  Pro-diplomacy (seems a bit redundant. also seems like you are kind of leaning towards Iraq again, and that is against the rules of the game)
   
  Green Industry (you said it best,duh)
   
  He can't even give an accurate description of poverty (in every region of the country there is a different barometer and I have not heard of any solution offered by him that eventually wouldn't put me in that class)
   
  What exactly is he going to do about corporate crimes?(perhaps bankrupt the only people who manage to work for a living. I don't mean the billionairs I mean the hundreds of thousands of people who earn their livings in the fringe financial industries)
   
  What are the principles of civil rights?
   
  Can mobilize the populace? (fund-raising proves this)
  How much did you and your friends give? What he did was get movie stars, rock stars and Oprah to give him alot of money that normally would have been given to Hillary. In turn they also gave him the potential votes of the populace.So,the result is more uninformed youth, more uninformed blacks and more uninformed housewives might vote this year. How can that be healthy for diplomacy? The good news is no matter how much shit they talk half of this corner of the populace are way to lazy to go and register and vote. That is good because you don't want ignorant, lazy members of the populace involved in any decision making.
   
  Has respect for the sovereignty of other nations (how about respect for the American working class)
   
  HMOs are obviously not a deal breaker or it would have been higher on list of excuses
   
  I won't go into the McCain list because that clearly violates the rules of the game. Besides I'm no big fan of his either.
  Now, you ruined this game because you gave Husbandhater some ideas to plagerize. My point was she is a lippy bitch who should keep her silly opinions to topics that suit her.
  

• TinSoldier said on Sep 02, 2008....

  why is the vitriol about Palin's experience exaggerated? This has been McCains warcry against Obama throughout the past weeks! Now he wants it both ways? Especially after Obama put the experience issue to rest after picking Biden. predictable!
  
  I'm looking at Palin in a vacuum, not with regards to what McCain has said about Obama. I won't hold that against Palin.
  
  But it's not the vitriol against her experience which is exaaggerated, IMV. It's the vitriol against her and her family in general before all facts have come out. I don't remember ever seeing such a witch hunt in such short period of time, even against Obama.
  
  2) called his wife a whore when she made a comment about his hair
  
  This is actually false; it was originally based on hearsay and a friend elsewhere has emailed two of the parties who supposedly overheard this and they denied it happening. The word, by the way, was "cunt", not "whore".
  
  Other stuff -- well, it would take too much time to debunk the things that need debunking, there is some fact in your tirade, and I think you can vote for whomever you want to vote for.
  
  Personally, you strike me as more of a Green Party/Nader voter anyway. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

• peteypete said on Sep 02, 2008....

  I am not sure who exactly you might be talking to Mr. Soldier

• TinSoldier said on Sep 02, 2008....

  Sorry -- I was responding to andora. She had specific questions. (I'm assuming she from the name. Not always clear.)

• andora said on Sep 02, 2008....

  tin,
  Nadar is the only conservative that has run for president in the last several cycles. The fact that conservatives took the neo-con spin hook line and sinker twice shows that most of the people voting do not understand the issues and therefore deserve a broken government. Politics isn't a pastime, it is serious business. I think that Palin's stand on abstinence education makes her daughter fair game, even tho i personally feel as though that is gutter politics, I'm not beyond the gutter as an American I need to point out the untreated sewage that is being passed off as good judgment...even so I criticized someone else for making it THE issue about Palin.
  

• andora said on Sep 02, 2008....

  lovely game peteypete lets play again real soon
  
  and tin, cunt/whore whatever, I guess I fell for it hook line and sinker :0
  after McCain kissed Falwell, I knew he would do anything to get in power, even make himself look like a major hypocrite. the evangelicals didn't go for it much, but boy are they going for Palin. I don't like any woman that wants to put reproductive rights in the hands of gov. she's in a big mess in regard to reproductive politics before she even got out of the gate. more telling is the investigation of corruption. Funny how people get more excited about the teen pregnancy than the possibility of corruption.
  
  yes, I'm obvious about being a green voter and believe Americans deserve to run out of potable water for ignoring this issue over soap opera skuttlebutt. I mostly come here to rage at those that are in denial about what is important as they talk about meaningless crap that won't mean anything when they wake up and smell the shit in their water...then, of course, they will want to tax everyone in order to clean up after the denial...
  

• peteypete said on Sep 02, 2008....

  at ease- soldier
   
  andora- why would you want to play a game that you suck at?
   

• peteypete said on Sep 02, 2008....

  By the way, I have a well and my septic is at least 80ft away from it. Do I have to worry about shit in my water to?

  See andora, "Shit", we found a topic that suits your expertise.

• stopmediabias said on Sep 03, 2008....

  Andora-Before I get into the Plame/Wilson thing again why don't you go and read something reasonable about the subject. 

  And OMG!!! Nader!!!!???? 

• silverwhisper said on Sep 05, 2008....

  so smb, when reagan lied in front of a congressional committee, that was OK, but when clinton did it, that was bad? :>
  
  ed

• bloc said on Sep 05, 2008....

  There is a far clearer and greater lie than Reagan's. Bush put his hand on a Bible and swore to uphold the constitution. We all know that was a lie and it was under oath.

• stopmediabias said on Sep 06, 2008....

  Silver-Reagan wasn't impeached for it. 

  Bloc-I believe Clinton put his hand on the same Bible, and we can prove he lied.

  I honestly find it interesting that you guys defend Clinton while ripping President Bush after Ruby Ridge and Waco, Aldrich Ames, the impeachment, Somalia, those things in the rhelm of lieing and civil rights are far more egregious than what you are pointing at the current President about.

• silverwhisper said on Sep 06, 2008....

  smb: so you're saying that reagan should've been impeached? b/c you're drawing some very arbitrary and convenient little lines here behind which you can try to connect these dots you're making.
  
  re: civil liberties--clinton didn't push for curtailment of existing civil liberties or enact laws that would force 'em back 50 years: the embarrassment known as bush the lesser absolutely has.
  
  do you really not understand the profound impact that laws can have and why that's actually a bigger concern for some of us than rogue behavior in isolated incidents by government bureaucracies?
  
  ed

• bloc said on Sep 06, 2008....

  Bush asserted to power to arrest any american citizen and hold them indefinitely without due process. That is clearly unconstitutional. 

• stopmediabias said on Sep 07, 2008....

  Silver-What I was alluding to was the fact of whatever Reagan did, it did not warrant impeachment, as the same with Bush.  The reason the Democratic Congress has not embraced impeachment for President Bush is because they agreed with him when it was politically beneficial to them. 

  Regardless of what I say, what source I site, whatever information clear or otherwise, you guys are damaged goods.  You have a set, conceived by the things you choose to believe without question, set of beliefs about our President.  Until you break down that wall, you and I will never agree on anything. 

  Bloc's pithy little retort is a classic example of how bloc has built a concrete wall.  Any subject that he is alluding to is far more complicated to be written off in some tiny little single sentence.

• bloc said on Sep 07, 2008....

  "The reason the Democratic Congress has not embraced impeachment for President Bush is because they agreed with him when it was politically beneficial to them. "
  
  I think this has a lot of truth to it, but it doesn't mean that Bush shouldn't be impeached or that his crimes weren't significant. It's like saying the mob shouldn't be charged with a crime because they have police officers working for them.
  

• stopmediabias said on Sep 10, 2008....

  See I disagree, if they could have impeached or even had the slightest chance of impeaching they would have.  Imagine what impeachment proceedings would do to Republicans, versus Democrats in this election.  Obama would be 30 points ahead in the polls.  This is why I believe there is not enough evidence.

• bloc said on Sep 10, 2008....

  i think you're wrong. Clinton's popularity wasn't harmed by the impeachment procedures and the republicans were harmed. 

• stopmediabias said on Sep 12, 2008....

  The difference here is Clinton was all ready popular, President Bush is unpopular from the start because of the war and his friends in media.

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