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     Was there a link between Al Qaeda and Iraq?  On the Conservative side a link between the two would make President Bush even more right if not more justified in taking Saddam's Iraq down.  On the Liberal side zero links makes it look as if President Bush mislead the American people in building the case to go into Iraq and gives the far-left crazies a foundation to spread more propaganda.

     There have been known terrorist groups all over the world who have set up bases in certain countries without said countries assisting them but acting complacent in these groups existence.  These countries do not have an operational link with the terrorist groups but have a link and their complacency would make them slightly responsible for the actions these terrorist groups take. 

     The main stream media has fogged the difference between an operational link and a link with sweeping headlines, assumptions, and false criticisms.  This has lead to blanket statements like: Panel Finds No Qaeda-Iraq Tie.  This statement implies there was never ever any connection between the two and is misleading.

     There is very scant evidence that Saddam's Iraq had anything to do with 9/11 and an operational relationship with Al Qaeda.  When we went to war with Iraq our President made the case that along with all the other atrocities Iraq had ties to Al Qaeda.  Lets look at a Wall Street Journal article: http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110004046

     "Far from exaggeration, what struck us about the case the President and Colin Powell took to the U.N. last fall and winter was its restraint. It focused mainly on a then-obscure terrorist named Abu Mussab al Zarqawi with no alleged 9/11 link, and a small affiliated terror group called Ansar al Islam operating in the Kurdish area of Northern Iraq."

     It then says: "About a month after September 11, reports surfaced that lead hijacker Mohammed Atta had met in Prague with an Iraqi embassy official and intelligence agent named Ahmed al-Ani. Al-Ani was a later expelled from the Czech Republic, in connection with a plot to bomb Radio Free Europe/Radio Free Iraq. Despite repeated attempts to discredit the report of a meeting between the two, Czech officials at the cabinet level have stuck by the story."

And:

      "Also in October 2001, two defectors alleged that a 707 fuselage at Salman Pak, south of Baghdad, was being used to train terrorists in the art of hijacking with simple weapons such as knives. Though no link to al Qaeda was alleged, some of the trainees were said to be non-Iraqi Arabs. The fuselage was clearly visible in satellite photos, and has since been found."

And:

     "Press reports, which had begun in 1998, resurfaced that former Iraqi intelligence chief and then-ambassador to Turkey Faruk Hijazi had met with bin Laden and associates on multiple occasions. Hijazi is in U.S. custody too, and has reportedly confirmed some of the alleged contacts."

And:

     "The February 19, 1998, memo from Iraqi intelligence, in which bin Laden's name was covered over with Liquid Paper, reported planned meetings with an al Qaeda representative visiting Baghdad. Days later al Qaeda issued a fatwa alleging U.S. crimes against Iraq. At about the same time, a U.S. government source tells Stephen Hayes of the Weekly Standard, Iraq paid bin Laden deputy Ayman Zawahiri $300,000"

     So the article states Al Qaeda did have ties to Iraq, Iraq had terrorists who were training inside the country, and Osama bin Laden met with Iraqi associates prior to 9/11.  Now lets look at a Washington Post article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50679-2004Jun17.html which points to the 9/11 Commission.

     The article says: "Officials with the Sept. 11 commission yesterday tried to soften the impact of the staff's finding, noting that the panel, formally known as the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, agrees with the administration on key points. "Were there contacts between al Qaeda and Iraq? Yes," Thomas H. Kean (R), the panel's chairman, said at a news conference. "What our staff statement found is there is no credible evidence that we can discover, after a long investigation, that Iraq and Saddam Hussein in any way were part of the attack on the United States."

     The article quotes President Bush: "This administration never said that the 9/11 attacks were orchestrated between Saddam and al Qaeda," Bush said. "We did say there were numerous contacts between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda."

     The article then quotes John Kerry who salivates over a couple words from the commission because he at the time was running for President.

     "The president owes the American people a fundamental explanation about why he rushed to war for a purpose that it now turns out is not supported by the facts," Kerry told reporters at the Detroit airport. "That is the finding of this commission."

     This wasn't the finding of the commission and there was no misleading.  The WSJ article above shows how restrained the Bush administration was in presenting its case for war.  There was no rush to war, they believed that Saddam's Iraq was a threat based on the information they had.  To take this a step further lets look at The Weekly Standard (a conservative publication)  who paints a far different scenario:

 http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/378fmxyz.asp

     They say: "OSAMA BIN LADEN and Saddam Hussein had an operational relationship from the early 1990s to 2003 that involved training in explosives and weapons of mass destruction, logistical support for terrorist attacks, al Qaeda training camps and safe haven in Iraq, and Iraqi financial support for al Qaeda--perhaps even for Mohamed Atta--according to a top secret U.S. government memorandum obtained by THE WEEKLY STANDARD. "

     Another great article written by Andrew McCarthy, a prosecutor in the Abdel Rahman terrorist case and contributor to National Review Online (conservative publication) has a take on this as well: http://www.nationalreview.com/mccarthy/mccarthy200406170840.asp

     McCarthy points out the commissions statements: "Bin Laden also explored possible cooperation with Iraq during his time in Sudan, despite his opposition to Hussein's secular regime. Bin Laden had in fact at one time sponsored anti-Saddam Islamists in Iraqi Kurdistan. The Sudanese, to protect their own ties with Iraq, reportedly persuaded Bin Laden to cease this support and arranged for contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda. A senior Iraqi intelligence officer reportedly made three visits to Sudan, finally meeting Bin Laden in 1994. Bin Laden is said to have requested space to establish training camps, as well as assistance in procuring weapons, but Iraq apparently never responded. There have been reports that contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda also occurred after Bin Laden returned to Afghanistan, but they do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship. Two senior Bin Laden associates have adamantly denied that any ties existed between al Qaeda and Iraq. We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States."

     Then of course the famous letter from Tahir Jalil Habbush al-Tikriti, the former head of the Iraqi Intelligence Service, who states Mohammed Atta trained in Iraq with Abu Nidel a notorious Palestinian terrorist.  No-one knows if the letter is a fake and now it is being spread that the CIA forged and planted the letter.  The story was broke by the London Telegraph, (hardly conservative) right around the time Saddam was captured.  While I don't know if the letter is real I certainly don't believe the CIA would try to forge a letter to prove an operational link.  If the CIA wanted to falsely prove such a link there are far better ways of doing it. 

     My take on all of this is yes there is a link between Al Qaeda and Iraq, but there is no operational link that can be substantiated.  This doesn't mean we can just write the whole subject off and doesn't mean there is a no possibility of an operational link.  Abu Nidel supposedly the terrorist who trained Mohammed Atta committed suicide, he was found with four bullets in his head in Iraq.  I would love to know how someone committing suicide can pump four bullets into his own head. 

     There is also the scrutiny is kind of pointed in the wrong direction.  Saddam Hussein was a radical Muslim with a publicly declared hatred for America as was Osama bin Laden.  It is naive and dangerous to assume just because two radical Muslim extremists who both hate and want to destroy America didn't at some point collaborate or would in the future based on the fact they had different ideological opinions.  

     The bottom line in all this is the media practices selective outrage by pulling out-of-context statements and making them headlines.  There is massive list of outrageous, terrible, and evil things that Saddam Hussein did in all his years in power.  I point this out because is shows there was no nead for anyone in the Bush administration to mislead anyone.  The logical reasons to remove Saddam from the earth were there and it was the right thing to do.     

 

 

 

 



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Comments

  • SeanRenaud said on Aug 16, 2008....
    Saddam was as bad man.  Liberating innocents should always be a good thing.  But just based on belief structures it is highly unlikely that Saddam and Bin Ladin were working together.  It is likewise obvious that we don't currently have enough troops to maintain two separate fronts and should have finished Afghanistan completely before moving on to anything else.
     
    Clinton should have handled Saddam back in 98 the first time he kicked inspectors out and when we had nothing else on our plates.  Bush should have done the same thing that Clinton did though and ignore him and let him beome someone elses problem.
  • bloc said on Aug 16, 2008....
    you link to nothing but neocon opinion pieces.
  • bloc said on Aug 16, 2008....
    from your opinion section of the wsj 

    "About a month after September 11, reports surfaced that lead hijacker Mohammed Atta had met in Prague with an Iraqi embassy official and intelligence agent named Ahmed al-Ani"

    This has been disproven repeatedly. Here is one source
  • kelly said on Aug 17, 2008....
    "The logical reasons to remove Saddam from the earth were there and it was the right thing to do."

    OK, so let's assume that Bush's kangaroo court had these reasons.  Why do you suppose they decided on Iraq rather than, say, China, Burma, North Korea, Sudan, Saudi Arabia or any number of other crappy countries that don't believe in human rights?  (Such as yourself, I might add).  You don't suppose it could have been for the personal gain of a few corporations (*cough* Halliburton, *cough* KBR) do you?  You don't suppose they could have had some secret plan going that required destabilizing a middle eastern country do you?

    And you think liberals are idealists....
  • stopmediabias said on Aug 17, 2008....

    Sean-lets be clear, I'm under the belief that Saddam and Osama did not have an operational relationship, but when it came to hating the US they had something in common and if it came down to it in the future would work together.

    "It is likewise obvious that we don't currently have enough troops to maintain two separate fronts and should have finished Afghanistan completely before moving on to anything else."

    I won't agree to this, I give our leaders more credit than that.  Afghanistan was in 2001 and Iraq was in 2003, we had scattered and brutalized the Taliban into their tribal regions then let NATO take over.  Even with both wars combined we have way more than enough troops and if we didn't we would not have gone into Iraq.

    Bloc-Like I stated ther is "scant" evidence, the Atta thing cannot be proven or disproven.  My source from the Wall Street Journal is dated 2003 and your source from the telegraph is dated 2001.  I only threw this in there because it is kind of a small piece of circumstancial evidence attached to everything else.  One could argue even if it is true it means nothing and one could argue it is pretty damning.

    Kelly-China, Burma, etc..although have bad human rights records seemed to have figured out a way to get along with the world, Saddam invaded Kuwait, fired at planes in the no fly zone, held the region hostage with is WMD crap, the list is endless. 

     "You don't suppose it could have been for the personal gain of a few corporations (*cough* Halliburton, *cough* KBR) do you."

    All this does is make you sound stupid, outside of the glaring fact Halliburton is a giant company that performs a lot of services few companies can, don't you think it is stretching it to assume our politicians would go to war because it will give some company more business.  You are so inclined to diminish known threats from another (historically) Hitler, but you fall right in line with nutcases who cry war for oil.  You side with the left when it was also the left who agreed to go into Iraq, they voted on it, saw the same information, and many were beating the war drums with everyone else. 

  • dyingman said on Aug 17, 2008....
    Saddam was barely Muslim.
    Radical?  Hardly.

    Iraq was a tremendous distraction from a conflict that has the operational links you claim to be so important:  Afghanistan.
    Troops were moved from Afghanistan to bolster Iraqi forces and Afghanistan's stability has suffered.

    I look forward to a sane military policy where we will enhance our intelligence operations to such a degree that we might be able to unearth cells with a mind to procure WMDs and capture / kill Bin Laden.  I hope it comes in January.


  • SeanRenaud said on Aug 17, 2008....
    Exactly.  Though I would like to see our military expanded.  Two theatres of this size shouldn't be too much for us to handle.
  • bloc said on Aug 17, 2008....
    @sean
    we spend more on our military than the rest of the world combined. I find it hard to see why we'd want to increase it unless our goal is empire.
  • SeanRenaud said on Aug 18, 2008....
     
    While I am aware that we are still on top spending wise even when put on a per capita basis I would like to see that spending handled differently.  More focused on personell and less focused on R&D which I feel could better be handled by the private sector.
     
    I also question how what our military (and Health care) spending would be if more evenly spread out.  I haven't looked at Mexico (but I suspect they are similar) but even Canada admits that they don't invest in their military because they know they can lean on us.
     
    Similarly I question how cheap medical care would be for the rest of the world if they were doing research (it isn't really disputed that the US does the majority of research and that the majority of break throughs happen in the US) if the rest of the world had to fight through the FDC.  *note I'm not saying either of these things are bad, I'm saying that it must be cheaper to stand on the shoulders of giants than it is to be giants.* 
     
    Honestly it is something that I want to explore further, I disagree with D6 and ALIEN that what we are paying is simply what it costs.  My point at the moment is that economically the world has grown ALOT close over the last thirty years than most people realize.  We are still voting and taking actions as if we are individuals.  As if America's actions effect only American Citizens (and vice versa) and that clearly isn't true.  And it's not JUST foreign oil.  It's foreign labor, it's illegal immigrant labor. It's dozens of things that I can't figure out.
  • stopmediabias said on Aug 18, 2008....

    Dyingm-I'm afraid you are a little misguided, who determines military policy?  The military.  I give our leaders far more credit than that.  And good God man, don't say enhance our intelligence operations, just that statement alone will cause the ACLU to sue, no wait you're talking liberal,  go ahead it won't matter. 

    Bloc-This Russia thing, might be a good idea to beef up our military. 

     

  • bloc said on Aug 18, 2008....
    @sean
    "More focused on personell and less focused on R&D which I feel could better be handled by the private sector."

    How would the private sector do that without money. Hell, a ton of our R&D is sent to the private sector and I think they are ripping us off in many respects. The F22 fighter is one example. The B2 is another.
  • bloc said on Aug 18, 2008....
    @smb
    why in the world would we be afraid of Russia? Bush looked into Putin's heart and knows that he's a good man. Right?
  • stopmediabias said on Aug 19, 2008....
    Bloc-What is Russia doing?  I don't get the logic behind this, after all these years, the Soviets, the Cold War, we finally get to a point where we can live together on this planet without threats of war and now Russia just decides to wage war because of some type of weird nationalism.
  • bloc said on Aug 19, 2008....
    I don't think the motivation is really nationalism. It's the geographic location of Georgia which goes back to power and resources.
  • kelly said on Aug 30, 2008....
    "I don't get the logic behind this, after all these years, the Soviets, the Cold War, we finally get to a point where we can live together on this planet without threats of war and now Russia just decides to wage war because of some type of weird nationalism."

    Are you sure you didn't mean the US instead of Russia?  They both fit.
  • SeanRenaud said on Aug 30, 2008....
    Pretty sure.  Is Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan or North Korea very closely tied to whatever the Russian equivalent to NATO is.  From a global political stance we did the right thing by standing down.  From a tactical point. . .we had no real choice.  From an 'honor' stand point we let an ally get crushed.  It's no different watching your friend get jumped and not jump in, even if it means that all you accomplish is sharing a hospital room friends dont' let friends fight alone.  Not even when they started it (though in those cases you take then and beat the the shit out of them later).
     
    Fortunately isn't like international politics has anything to do with honor.  As long as our allies understand there were political reasons that we abandoned them in their time of need they'll stay on our side.

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