I have heard several comment that they think we are going into a 'depression'.
What do you think?
Comments
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madstorm said on Jul 15, 2008....
The peak indicator of an economy is house sales because when people buy a house they also buy associated goods such as a fridge & TV, a new Kitchen or bathroom etc. House prices peak when the price outstrips the ability of the average wage to pay a mortgage. Subsequently less houses are sold & consequently the sale of all associated goods falls also. Construction companies and manufacturers of associated goods reduce production & lay off workers, laid off workers cannot pay their mortgages & go into foreclosure which in turn effects house sales and the intensifies the cycle downwards.
In short... yes, we are heading for a depression, a recession call it what you like. It is a 'Perfect Storm' of our own making. Food prices are skyrocketing all over the world because rather than make bread they are selling corn to make biofuels. Farm animals are fed corn and so meat prices are also skyrocketing...
My advice is... become a vegetarian and turn your back lawn into a vegetable garden...
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madstorm said on Jul 15, 2008....
As a vegetarian you'll also live longer & healthier according to this article posted by Bloc... -
rubymae said on Jul 15, 2008....
NO....we are going into a strong recession. There may be some inflation.....some government intervention into the economy.
It will be much worse and could hit a depression if Obama is elected. Obama and his backers are socialists and will enact policies that will even create rationing of gasoline, some foods and health care.
I am in no way in love with McCain.......but Obama scares me cold. -
crybabylu said on Jul 15, 2008....
madstorm----Thanks for commenting. I know for certain something is happening. This housing thing is a serious one!
ruby--Thank you too for commenting!
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madstorm said on Jul 15, 2008....
"Something is happening" indeed Crybabylu... the World did not learn from the 1929 Wall Street Crash ... it doesn't matter if stocks crash or not, the principle of an Economic Bubble is the same and now in 2008 we have unprecedented economic co-dependency between nations. America used to be produce all it's food, it's manufactured goods and was Oil independent, now America is dependent of imported goods and Oil, never mind the $9 trillion national debt.
Business is about confidence... The politicians and Businessmen will pile on the bullshit to try to uphold confidence because they don't won't to lose what they have but ordinary Americans will be the ones who'll suffer the most.
"The American Dream... you know it's a dream because you have to be asleep to believe it" - George Carlin
Hmmm... now where did I put that packet of carrot seeds...
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SeanRenaud said on Jul 15, 2008....
It's possible. It's unlikely from what signs we've got around us but it is possible. A strong recession seems much more realistic since we can point our fingers directly at several of the problems and pretty much say, hey that didn't work let's fix it! Such as corn for bio-fuel and the housing market and possibly how credit is handled as well.Mad is 100% correct that Business is about confidence, which is why politicians and businessmen will pile on the bullshit, there is a reason for that. "Bullshit" is all we have in a lot of ways. You are fully aware that the pieces of plastic and paper we carry and exhange for goods has no actual worth. We trade them in the confidence that others will accept this as payment, but you haven't actually given away something that has real inalterable value. Hell we aren't even on the gold standard anymore, our dollar is really worth only the confidence we put it in it. This is a case of the lie becoming the truth. -
crybabylu said on Jul 15, 2008....
It is kind of scary right in the middle of an election! Voters better do their homework before voting! -
SeanRenaud said on Jul 15, 2008....
Why? Both candidates are roughly identical. You may as well spin a bottle -
madstorm said on Jul 15, 2008....
Sean... it's interesting that you see business confidence and the value placed on money is bullshit ... yet you seem to still have confidence in it. As you rightly say America moved off the Gold standard decades ago and replaced it with Fiat currency that has no value at all apart from the confidence the people place in government.
Don't know about you guys but I have no confidence in government... that's why I've never voted.
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crybabylu said on Jul 15, 2008....
Sean---Now I am really scared! -
SeanRenaud said on Jul 15, 2008....
You should have confidence though it's gotten very far and with relatively few hiccups. It is artificial bullshit though, so is the fact that everybody bigger than you doesn't kill you and steal your belongings and kidnap your wife to be his sex slave. I highly doubt you walk around armed to the teeth though. Because when it's all said and done you know that the government can do it's job and really has held things together rather well for thousands of years.
Cry: No need to fear, while things are still gonna get worse before they get better barring somebody doing something completely and utterly stupid (I'm looking at you Islam and your crazy suicide bomber folk) things won't get too bad simply because mad is mostly correct *he just somehow came to the wrong conclusion based on the right evidence*
China won't hurt us anymore than we would hurt them. It would be like the trucking companies declaring war on Wal-Mart. They might play some games to get more money but they won't actually go the last step because without us they starve relatively quickly. Where as for us without them we suffer from rampant inflation, cry ourselves to sleep as we sell the shirts off our backs to keep from starving but we don't actually starve. It would suck for all parties involved there is no doubt of that but it would suck worse for them and thus they won't do it. China may be brutal but they've shown few signs of being irrational.
The same goes for Iran largely, what are they gonna do cut off the worlds oil and their primary source of income? The best case scenario they could hope for out of that would be becoming a colony of whichever Western Power grew a set the fastest. Again they fort he most part haven't shown themselves to be suicidal, maybe brazen but I don't think anybody who is prepared to martyr himself is at the top of the pile. yet. And tha'ts accounting for the fact that Khomeni scares me.
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madstorm said on Jul 15, 2008....
"Artificial bullshit" indeed Sean... as you rightly say so is our belief that other people won't "kill you and steal your belongings" ... well, they did... they left me in a park where I lay unconscious for three days... thousands of my fellow citizens passed by and not one offered help. I ain't bitter... I woke up and helped myself... I replaced what they stole with my welfare checks. I ain't got no confidence in people either... people are full of fear, to frightened to care... but I have confidence in myself... and that's enough for me.You should check your history... governments & currency have not been around "for thousands of years". Paper currency began as an excepted form of exchange against Gold deposits only a few hundred years ago and political governments are certainly not older. Up until the Protestant Reformation which began in 1517 the charging of interest on loans also known as 'usury' was considered a sin.Iran trading their oil in the euro won't be "doing something completely and utterly stupid" ... the euro is a stronger currency than the dollar. I should know, I've just spent three months in Spain enjoying the cheap wine & sunshine.If you mean Ayatollah Ruhollah Musavi Khomeini... well, no need to be scared Sean... because he's dead.... If you mean President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran then the only reason you need to be scared is because America and the rest of the world are provoking Iran to start a war much like they did with Vietnam and the now infamous and fraudulent 'Gulf of Tomkin' incident which the C.I.A have admitted they fabricated.The problem is the consent of the majority of people giving power to these idiots... both in Iran & America... -
SeanRenaud said on Jul 15, 2008....
1. Of course they didn't help you, you're obviously scum and we'd have been better off if you'd died.2. Governments have been around for thousands of years I said nothing of currency, though to be fair writs and other contracts have been around for thousands of years.3. No Iran trading their oil in the Euro wouldn't be stupid (well it would but not for any reason that is instantly apparent) but them attacking Isreal would be.4. There is reason to be afraid of anybody who's claimed to want to destroy an entire peope is working on a bomb. Thing is Isreal is going to walk in take it away from them and the dance will continue. Barring that I don't think he's quite insane enough to do anything.5. These idiots are better than you are, if they weren't we'd all be dead. -
madstorm said on Jul 15, 2008....
Ha! ... thought you might call me scum... name calling is so childish.... actually, I'm also a 'dead-beat dad', a 'college drop out' & a thoroughly 'lazy good-for-nothing'... yeah, so what? ... I know what I see... a system that leaves the vast majority of people with nothing, I see injustice, greed and selfishness... and if feeling that we should do something about the 25,000 children that die of starvation, malnutrition and preventable disease every day make me scum then I'm happy to be scum...
I like you sean... your dedication to the system is admirable... though misguided. perhaps when you are the one who's hungry you'll see things differently.
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SeanRenaud said on Jul 15, 2008....
When. . .if I'm one of the hungry it'll be time for me to die and make room for those more capable than myself. We've seen what lies down your path, there is only death that way and I won't let the world go that way. -
madstorm said on Jul 15, 2008....
And as for Israel... that is all about Revelations & the deal between American Fundamentalist Christians and Israeli Fundamentalist Jews... they both want to see the borders of Israel extended beyond the Tigris & Euphrates, which includes modern day Iran, to fulfull biblical prophesies and recreate the Biblical borders of the Ancient land of Israel and bring on the rapture and Armageddon... these people actually believe in that shit...
And to do it they will use the 'Hegelian Principle'... governments secretly create a problem, they wait for the peoples reaction and then they offer the solution... go to war. And the people follow like lambs to the slaughter... works every time...
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SeanRenaud said on Jul 15, 2008....
I wish I thought you were completely off kilter on that rather than partially off kilter. -
crybabylu said on Jul 15, 2008....
The prophesy in the Bible is "conditional". Armageddon is not an absolute! The Bible warns that If certain things happen, then such and such will happen. It is not suppose to happen. It's hoping it won't!
Grant it, there might be some fanatics who don't realize that fact, and indeed think they need to do some things to bring it about, but that is a small minority and they do not represent mainstream religion.
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SeanRenaud said on Jul 15, 2008....
That's an interesting view on it crybabylu, I've always interpreted that as Armageddon being a "good" thing, that is certainly the view of millions upon millions of Christians who gobbled "Left Behind" up. Though I can also find no reason to believe the Rapture would be at the begining. -
crybabylu said on Jul 15, 2008....
What I personally hope and pray for is that Israel will try harder to get along with Palestine. Consequently that the two nations will learn to live side by side in harmony. That is my earnest desire for the two people of that region. If that would settle down, I think it would help stablize the entire region. -
davidstar said on Jul 15, 2008....
We are not headed for Depression! We may be in a recession. There are conflicting opinions about that. -
crybabylu said on Jul 15, 2008....
Thanks Dave. -
Lucytorial said on Jul 15, 2008....
Dee I haven't really read the comments but its big news here not to mention the fact that the Aussie dollar is buying almost even with the US dollar. We're hearing stories of major banks and smaller ones closing their doors with trillions of dollars of debt, wether thats true or not the fact remains I believe you are going into a recession, and bringing a few countries down with you as well, including Australia, next will be Britian.
Sucks really, the only thing I'm glad for is that Oz is aligned strongly with asian countries so it may take a little longer and be a little less of a fall for us.
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crybabylu said on Jul 15, 2008....
Thanks Lucy. -
Lucytorial said on Jul 15, 2008....
The only thing that I don't understand at the moment is that with the amount of debt being carried by the banks the mining industry is booming! if someone can explain that one to me I'd appreciate it! economics is not my strong point.
Hope you and papa are well Dee.
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ALIENated said on Jul 15, 2008....
Both candidates are roughly identical. I used to think that, too, to a certain extent. I heard a guy go through that on the radio the other night and he totally changed my mind about all that. McCain has a 95 percent rating with some conservative watch group (do not remember the fine details) and Borax has something like 15 percent. On the other hand, Borax has a 100 percent liberal rating with a liberal group and McCain has a 10 percent rating. McCain has voted for things Borax has not and vice versa. McCain has supported supreme court candidates offered by Republican presidents and will continue to appoint similar judges. Oblahma will appoint radical liberals to the supreme court, which will have ramifications for years. If McCain is elected, I think he will consider it an honor and he will try to do the right things for the country and the people. If Borax is elected, he will take it as a miracle and treat the office as if he were king or messiah. He is already beginning to believe his own press releases. Borax's answer to everything is: rob from the rich and give to the poor. We all know "the rich" are us middle class working stiffs. We will end up funding Oblahma's promises to his deadbeat supporters.
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ALIENated said on Jul 15, 2008....
The prophesy in the Bible is "conditional". Armageddon is not an absolute! The Bible warns that If certain things happen, then such and such will happen. It is not suppose to happen. It's hoping it won't! Have you read Revelations? Where did you get that angle? Revelations lays out what WILL happen. Not what might happen. You need to find a new church or Bible study.
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crybabylu said on Jul 16, 2008....
Revelations have duel prophesies, Alien, have you read it? -
madstorm said on Jul 16, 2008....
Ah! ALIENated, my favourite religious coward is here!! ... the world's economy is heading for disaster and no saviour will come to it's rescue...
The only time Jesus became angry was at the temple where the money-changers were charging exorbitant exchange rates... can anyone see the parallel? ... the whole world is now being held to ransom by the money-changers... ie Bankers...
Let's create a world without money...
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RollingC said on Jul 16, 2008....
In Revelations it says, though I don't remember exact chapter and verse, a great whore that sits on the waters dies (or is killed) and people rejoice and eat of her flesh (or something like that)I wonder if it means the economic system or the political system. I don't think I'll live to see it but I'm curious enough to wish I could see it. -
husbandhater said on Jul 16, 2008....
Love this discussion. Let me chime in here. China stopped our flow of rice due to the corn for bio-fuel mess(We made less so they decided to give less). I think a depression is possible if we stay in Iraq another 8yr which I say plays somewhat into this mess(get it McCain). Strong recession(Sean and Mad boy are dead on about the US dollar but the speculation in the oil market also played a role and the housing market with it's everybody can afford a house,lets play with the rate of minorities and people who can't pay more, oh wait no they can't ...CRASH. The bubble bursts as it always does.) which is why I said yes to my other job for a full time position instead of just keeping the one and occassionaly going to the other. Full timers with yrs don't get cut 1st. But part timers and per-diems do which is why I said YES:(With me being idiot and purchasing a car as the economy took a down turn I've gotta clear this thing off so that my credit doesn't take a hit. I might want to buy a house or something right before that economy gets better anyway so....... -
husbandhater said on Jul 16, 2008....
Mad read your post, you are right about the provoking Iran thing. Bush would like to start that war too except he's already spread the Armed Forces too thin by having our Boys and girls in two different countries as it is. Your right about us giving idiots Power. Georgie Boy Jr. Was the tops in the IDIOT DEPT. Theheh tehheh. I wonder if the Feds are gonna start monitoring the internet and our personal mail next to see if were bashing the President. After all their taking other civil liberties away. I'm sure they could put it under the guise of National protection from terrorists. HAHA! -
husbandhater said on Jul 16, 2008....
Ah Alien....McCain and his group are going to turn us back to the stone age with the next 2 nominations for the supreme court. Right to lifers and all the such. Which everyone is not meant to be a parent and women dying in the back alleys shouldn't be an option again. Not in the 21st century unless we want to end up like China or more women in Jail for babykillings. Sometimes you need a radical voice to shake things up. Some thought King a radical and the man lifted a finger to NO ONE! He instead was beat,spit upon,had dogs siced on him,and was ultimately repaid with the taking of his life from a selfish man.McCain doesn't sound exactly sane either. He went over and shot his neighbors dog for barking too much. What rational person does such a thing? It shows his mentality,he's a War Monger who never got over what was done to him in Vietnam. Those Commies were some sicko's boy. Things like that have a profound way of affecting people and the way they do things. For Pete's sake this guy could actually want to push the button to bomb another country,maybe even Iran if this Israel thing goes any further. B/c like it or not WE WILL BE DRAGGED IN IT!And as far as the middle class goes he can't take what we don't have(Thanks again Bush). He will have to get it from the Super Rich. He also will play no more King or Messiah than Georgie did at his 1Stolen and other rightful crowning and faking of Iraqi W.M.D(Weapons of Mass Destruction) than McCain would. Yes remember this would be like McCain comming full circle career wise. The ususal Washington Presidental requirement Bullshit:Good Ole' Boy *Check*Must have miliary background *Check*Must have 1st or second wife *Check*Kids,sob story(The horror's of Vietnam which his wife couldn't get over when she visited the country.But wasn't old enough to even comprehend{a fresh seed from daddies stuff} when he was going through it and he was Married to the 1st Mrs.McCain.Opps;~()Wife who poses as goodie,goodie,but really has way too much money,knows not what to do with it and thinks if she visits some 3rd world country and pats some poor ass indigent child on the head were all suppose to melt as she searches to give her poor spoiled life meaning *Check*And the list goes on. Do we really want another President whose probably going to Altz or Stroke out on us and we have Cindy McCain and the Vice running the country AGAIN(Think Reagan,Alztimers doesn't just sneak up 2yrs after leaving office it can show signs almost 5-10yrs before foolish McCainers. And he already looks unsteady on his feet like the other shoe is about to drop.).Nuff said! -
husbandhater said on Jul 16, 2008....
Hey Lu how are you.Papa Jack and mama doing? -
crybabylu said on Jul 16, 2008....
h-hater---not good! WE all are doing poorly! Mama is barely hanging in there....papajack goes to a blood specialist today because he is loosing blood and we can't find out where, and I went to same day care today with a serious asthma attack!
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madstorm said on Jul 16, 2008....
Excellent discussion... at least we're not talking about cheese... -
SeanRenaud said on Jul 16, 2008....
Cept everybody seems to be getting onto their lunatic points. I'll start with ALIEN.I find it hard to believe that McCain has a 95% approval. Just his pushing for amnesty alone should have pushed him below 70% for any real conservative.We've already been over this on nearly every major case you can name the Clinton appointed Judges voted the way you wanted things to go and the the Republican appointed ones (the other seven) went against you. -
crybabylu said on Jul 16, 2008....
Their voting against was really wierd wasn't it?
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