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He doesn't believe the FISA bill is as big a deal as I make it out to be, and he makes a thought provoking argument. Read the full piece here

The very concept of Western liberty sprung in part from an understanding that, if the state has the power to reach that deep into a person's soul and can do that much damage to a human being's person, then the state has extinguished all oxygen necessary for freedom to survive.

That is why, in George Orwell's totalitarian nightmare, the final ordeal is, of course, torture. Any polity that endorses torture has incorporated into its own DNA a totalitarian mutation. If the point of the U.S. Constitution is the preservation of liberty, the formal incorporation into U.S. law of the state's right to torture--by legally codifying physical coercion, abuse, and even, in Krauthammer's case, full-fledged torture of detainees by the CIA--would effectively end the American experiment of a political society based on inalienable human freedom protected not by the good graces of the executive, but by the rule of law.

I know wire-tapping, even monitored by three branches of government, is a loss of liberty. But nothing is as corrosive as torture to the possibility of Western freedom. It is vital that we expose the war crimes that have been committed, ensure they cannot happen again, and bring the criminals to justice.



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  • bloc said on Jul 12, 2008....
    Glen Greenwald answers, and convinces me. Please read the whole piece, but here is an excerpt. 

    "This is what a country becomes when it decides that it will not live under the rule of law, when it communicates to its political leaders that they are free to do whatever they want -- including breaking our laws -- and there will be no consequences. There are two choices and only two choices for every country -- live under the rule of law or live under the rule of men. We've collectively decided that our most powerful political leaders are not bound by our laws -- that when they break the law, there will be no consequences. We've thus become a country which lives under the proverbial "rule of men" -- that is literally true, with no hyperbole needed -- and Mayer's revelations are nothing more than the inevitable by-product of that choice.

    That's why this ongoing, well-intentioned debate that Andrew Sullivan is having with himself and his readers over whether "torture is worse than illegal, warrantless eavesdropping" is so misplaced, and it's also why those who are dismissing as "an overblown distraction" the anger generated by last week's Congressional protection of surveillance lawbreakers are so deeply misguided. Things like "torture" and "illegal eavesdropping" can't be compared as though they're separate, competing policies. They are rooted in the same framework of lawlessness. The same rationale that justifies one is what justifies the other. Endorsing one is to endorse all of it."

  • silverwhisper said on Jul 14, 2008....
    i will investigate the linked blogs when i get a chance, but i agree with greenwald's summary that the two are both violations of the rule of law. i'm not sure they're necessarily competing, though.

    ed
  • TinSoldier said on Jul 15, 2008....
    I found an interesting link elsewhere -- I'm still reading it. Some of the opening matter is quite relevant (or at least it describes my own attitude towards the subject):

    I have to admit that despite the fact that I read Glenn Greenwald’s blog and have followed his numerous posts on FISA, until recently I haven’t fully understand the law or how it recently changed. I think the complexity of the issue is one of the reasons there isn’t more outrage about or opposition to the revised FISA law.

    Understanding Recent Changes to FISA -- A Visual Guide (Flowchart)


  • bloc said on Jul 15, 2008....
    good link tin. I recently read one journalist complaining about the new law because foreign sources were refusing to talk to him since it is now legal to spy without a warrant on such calls.

Comment on "Andrew Sullivan's thought provoking post on Torture compared to FISA"


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