• Expendable said on Jul 02, 2008....

  1. Why isn't there just one variety of wheat? One kind of corn? One type of dog, cat or cow? For centuries people have been breeding new varieties of plants and animals that breed true, selecting for desirable traits. This alone is strong support for evolution as plants and animals have either adapted to new changes or died out.

  2. The Vatican supports Darwin and Evolution and sees evolution as no conflict with the Bible or belief in God. Maybe you should talk to them.

  3. The hunting of elephants in Africa and India has resulted in the size of elephant's tusks becoming half as big within the last 150 years, as hunters took out the elephants with the largest tusks for the prize while leaving the males with the smaller tusks alone. It's documented. Evolution can work very quickly.

  4. It doesn't make it right, as Kitzmiller v. Dover shows. ID and Creationism is not science and doesn't belong in public schools.

  The Pope disagrees with you. Your statement "the Bible itself does not make room for a Christian who believes in Evolution" is trying to bully someone into accepting your position rather than convincing them you are right. You stated at the begining you hated verbal attacks - don't contradict yourself.

• SeanRenaud said on Jul 02, 2008....

  1.  There is tons fo proof of evolution.  We could start with an undeniable one.  Reticism.  It's when a gene that is supposed to be turned off in an animal is instead turned on so that it resembles an ancestor.  The most famous of these cases are the wolf boys of mexico who have the gene for thick hair all over their bodies turned on.  We see dolphins with leg flippers on occasion as well.
   
  We could use vestigal body parts as well.  The human appendix which probably once stored bacterica capable of digesting celluose in it now performs one function, it might get infected and kill you.  Whales have hip bones for legs they no longer have.
   
  2.  We could look at the fossil record which shows at the very least an increasing complication of life, the biggest of which is the cambrian explosion.  There are no land animals before a certain point, no flowering plants before about 65 million years ago, no major mammals until a few million after that.  No humans until terribly recently.  To ignore that is sheer madness.
   
  3.  You belief in fairy tales and thus reject reality and substitute your own.  Well that's actually how you over look points one and two obviously.  Do you believe in the holocaust?  I mean there is fairly limited evidence of that too.
   
  4.

• Eilan said on Jul 02, 2008....

  Feel free to believe what you want.  Just don't call it "science" and try to force my children to learn it.

• travelr712 said on Jul 02, 2008....

  imo, all your questions can be summed up in an answer to your first one. that answer being, there is no solid information whatsoever that 'supports' creationism.

• lfbno7 said on Jul 03, 2008....

  1. When I took a college course in argumentation and debate, the first and most important lesson the teacher stressed was the importance of defining your terms. Are you defining evolution as the changes in species over time, or as the explanation for the origin of life on earth, or something else? I think it's pretty clear that evolution as the process of change in species over time is pretty well established. As an explanation of the ORIGIN of life on earth, or of any particular type of life on earth, evolution is out of its element, but then again, evolution means change, not origin.
  
  2. I don't see it as a choice between believing in the Bible's Jehovah or believing that there is no designer at all. I think it is also possible to believe in Mother Nature Susie or Bob the God. At least those two didn't flood the world for the purpose of mass murder of innocent lives.
  
  3. I don't know what can be accomplished by evolution in 5 billion years but I don't think that bacteria or amoebas can ever evolve into ducks. I think they can only evolve into bigger and more complicated bacteria or amoebas. There's just too much difference between a bacteria and a duck. I don't think a bacteria can evolve into a duck in 5 trillion years.
  
  4. Again we'd have to define what you mean by the evolutionary theory, as discussed in point number 1. I think the public school system should have very close ties to business, and that when a student graduates, whether from high school or college or something higher, ideally that student should have some damn options of what to do with the rest of his life, because let's face it, we go to school to improve our financial future and our professional possibilities. I'd like to see that system being more successful than it presently is, and having our graduates actually be set, in a position, or with an offer or two, Before graduation. They do it for football players. I think they can do a much better job of it for every other profession as well, if they focus on it. Having a damn job fair once in a blue moon just doesn't cut it. So when you mention something that should be taught in public schools, my thoughts go to what the public schools should be accomplishing for their students, and I start thinking JOBS.
  
  Oh and there is more than "fairly limited evidence of the Holocaust", Sean Renaud, you lunatic. There is more evidence of the Holocaust than there is that you exist. That is an offensive and utterly ignorant thing to say. I have seen Holocaust survivors and what was branded into their arms, you idiot. Flirting with Holocaust denial, BULLSHIT, ASSHOLE. There's a hell of a lot more evidence that Jews were mass murdered in Europe in the 1940s than that blacks were ever enslaved in America. It's insulting to deny either. You're messing with crap you shouldn't be messing with. Do not mess with the truth of the mass murder of Jews in Europe. Too many people were murdered. It just shows you to be a Jew-hating ignorant ass. Fix it. Fix yourself.

• SeanRenaud said on Jul 03, 2008....

  1.  Evolution has nothing do with the origin of life on earth period.  So it cannot be defined as such.  No more than Creationism could be defined as the origin of the Personal Computer.  So your first point is. . .Why did you even write that when you seem to understand the point.

  2.  You're arguing for inteligent design here, again there is zero evidence to support this.

  3. What you think and reality have absolutely no relationship.  Merely looking at the fossil record shatters your theory.

  4. This has nothing to do with anything.  I happen to agree with it (other than your mistaken idea that they do it for football players which they don't, not any more than they do for nerds) but still.

  5.  Actually no there isn't.  So you saw a guy who had a tattoo?  This proves murder why?  Hell it seems to prove imprisonment and enslavement first.  I don't tattoo my turkeys before I toss them in the oven.  I believe in the holocaust 100%, but if you're going to ignore proven facts you can't be picky.

• sadsack said on Jul 16, 2008....

  Frankly I see no conflict between evolution and intelligent design. 
   Evolution does have major blindspots. For example how does one explain altruism?
  The world is far too beautiful and complex to be just an accident.
  I found books by .L. Schumacher, Paul Davies (The Fifth Miracle), C.S. Lewis very helpful in clarifying my ideas.
  

• sadsack said on Jul 16, 2008....

  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jul 16, 2008....

  Honestly I've never seen actual proof of altruism, and I think a truly altruistic creature would die very very quickly.
   
  Youre second point isn't even a point it's just an opinion with no basis in fact.

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