• crybabylu said on Jun 26, 2008....

  I was reading a message board on another site yesterday, and it was republicans talking about democrats saying how they want to control everyone, etc.etc.etc.....and I had to bite my tongue because it was the republicans that came up with The Patriot Act, not the democrats...

• Me-Myself&I said on Jun 26, 2008....

  well i live "life", always in the "pursuit of happiness" BUT for "liberty" there is less of it everyday!

  i watched the news yesterday and they were reporting that in this town, they are going to vote on....

  if folks can have couchs and chairs on their porchs at their homes! even wicker stuff too. go figure!

• uniquely-ironic said on Jun 26, 2008....

  I suppose it comes down to the definition of liberty.  I think as the country matures and becomes more crowded that liberty is going to become less about getting to do things and more about not being required to do things.  I think we have fewer liberties than we did a century ago, but for the most part I am free to do most things, go most places and associate with most peoples.

• anonymous said on Jun 26, 2008....

  no  we live in a police state

• hinana said on Jun 26, 2008....

  im not sure if i can speak for americans but from what i can say,
  life - yes, the gov. cant just order your death fro no reason
  liberty - epends how you define it. there are restrictions, but asides from breakin the law youre free to do as you please..of course there are other ways you can look at this and say that you arent free
  pursuit of happieness - most people live by that. eve if theyre stuck doing something, theyll be pursuiting happieness at the same time, doesnt mean they always get it...but again there ARE restrictions to what you can and cant do.

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 26, 2008....

  As has been said, well accept by the idiot anon (I thought everybody blocked all of those years ago?) it depends on how you chose to define liberty.  Sure the Republicans pushed through the patriot act.  (Of course we all "knew" the government was listening to all our phone calls and had our fingerprints on a national data base since we were born anyway so I fail to see the big deal.)
   
  Tell me how many times Republicans have pushed through a gun control law.
  Tell me how many times Republicans have pushed to eliminate trans fats from our diet by law, or passed a law on where you can smoke?
   
  Course I could flip and say how many democrats are anti-porn or other free speech. (Then you could bring up Hillary Clinton and her stance on Video Games.)
   
   

• anonymous said on Jun 26, 2008....

  or call it what it has become   a police state

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 26, 2008....

  It isn't a police state, not by a long shot.

• anonymous said on Jun 26, 2008....

  find a cop
  
  hospitals
  schools
  stores
  airports
  bus stations
  malls
  sidewalks
  roads
  out your front door
  looking in your back yard
  living in your neighborhood free
  concerts
  plays
  disney
  on line
  off line
  at work
  undercover
  funerals
  
  i mean dear sir the list can grow still   do you wish me to continue kind sir
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 26, 2008....

  Actualy yes I do, for an idiot your entertaining.  Do you know what a police state is? 

• anonymous said on Jun 26, 2008....

  beaches
  pools daycare
  corners
  in between corners
  911
  1 800 snitch
  community watch
  guardian angels
  rent a cop
  cops watching cops
  drag strips
  campgrounds
  burial grounds
  state parks
  federal parks
  Ihops cops
  cops on water
  cops on land
  cops in air
  cops in banks
  cops in think tanks
  private cops
  cops at public bathrooms
  cops at rest stops
  cops at fairs
  cops at circus
  
  need i continue
  
  cops at graduations
  cops in nurseries
  cops in cafeterias
  cops watching intersections
  cops watching drug dealers
  cops as drug dealers
  cops as teachers
   
  
  and cop outs    sean
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 26, 2008....

  The short answer is no you're an idiot and have no idea what a police state is.  You could have a population where 50% of the population was made up of police officers, and it still wouldn't make your nation a police state.  Thank you for playing the how big an idiot am I.  You win!

• anonymous said on Jun 26, 2008....

  cops for birds
  cops for fish
  cops for bears
  cops for trees
  cops for dumps
  cops for air
  cops for livestock
  cops for insurance
  cops for hire
  cops on calendars
  cops in books
  cops in movies
  cops on tv
  cops in the news
  good cops
  bad cops
  cops listening
  cops texting
  cops writing
  cops killing liberty
  
  show me liberty minus cops
  
  
  
  
  
  

• anonymous said on Jun 26, 2008....

  americans think they know everything    dont like it   to bad   call a cop   that is your  liberty   ha

• crybabylu said on Jun 26, 2008....

  Sorry, for having to bloc anon.  I didn't find anything on this blog offensive by anon.  The problem was on another post, and after having to delete anon on that post,  It was just easier to bloc anon for the time being.

  Hope this doesn't throw a wrench in the discussion here, because I am very interested in this subject.

  Thanks, Dee

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 26, 2008....

  It's your call to keep them or not, I just find them cowardly, annoying and stupid.  It's your blog, your rules.
   
  Yes I think it's still true, there is a reason why people want to migrate here.

• crybabylu said on Jun 26, 2008....

  Me-my---I saw a little bit of liberty going when they were able to get laws passed about seatbelts. I am for them for little children and even children under the age of adulthood, but I would think that once you are an adult, some things, you should be able to decide on for yourself.

  Now, you write about furniture on the porch, makes one wonder, what next?  Thanks for your comments, Dee

• crybabylu said on Jun 26, 2008....

  Unique----I see what you are saying, and I too find few liberties that I enjoy being fractured, but I wonder about other walks of life, what liberties they have had taken away.  Thanks for commenting.

• WalterMitty said on Jun 26, 2008....

  I agree with hinana-Liberty depends on your definition.

  Does a country that uses major corporations to spy on its own citizens without just cause,  value liberty?  How much are we willing to give up to feel 'safe'?

  When I was in high school in the late eighties we were told how horrible the Soviet Union was. One of the oft-repeated storis was they would go big brother on their citizens, and weren't we fortunate to live in a society that didn't do that. It seems that our country has either learned from the Soviets...or we've done it all along, this administration is more cavalier about it.

  That's the big picture, but Sean has another point, that puts the definition of liberty into perspective. Laws that are meant to help and save lives to some, are looked at as oppressive by others.

  I'm an avid motorcycle rider-and I'm for helmet laws-statistics say they save lives, I feel the same about speed limits, trans fat laws etc.

• WalterMitty said on Jun 26, 2008....

  ps. anon.

  We're not in  a police state (yet).

  You weaken your argument when you don't say who you are.

  Stand by what you have to say.

• crybabylu said on Jun 26, 2008....

  hinana----I appreciate you commenting. It is good to get another perspective outside the US.

  Sean----Thanks for commenting.

  Anon----I see where you are coming from, but I don't think that meets the criteria for a "police' state.  Thanks, again I apologize for having to bloc anon, nothing personal, I didn't think anything you said was out of line.

  I wish one could just block anon for individual posts, and not the entire blog.

• crybabylu said on Jun 26, 2008....

  American Heritage® Dictionary: Description of liberty

  NOUN: 1a. The condition of being free from restriction or control. b. The right and power to act, believe, or express oneself in a manner of one's own choosing. c. The condition of being physically and legally free from confinement, servitude, or forced labor.
  Additional references: Columbia Encyclopedia, Law.com law dictionary, Yahoo! Movies, Wikipedia
  Yahoo! Shortcut - About

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 26, 2008....

  It depends on the law.  A speed limit law protects others from you.  You benefit but like drunk driving the primary beneficiary are those around you, not you.  If you wantt o ride your chopper with just a pair of goggles, go for it.   I'm 50/50 on smoking laws.  I like that you can't smoke inside certain buildings, I hate that now there are cities where you can't smoke outside.  I'm completely agains trans fat laws or anything that punishes me because you can't find time to work out.  Sorry not my fault.  (I'm still bitter that McDonalds doesn't supersize anymore I miss my bucket of french fries.)
   
  I think that we've always spied on our own citizens, I doubt any nation doesn't.  Just Bush didn't lie about it.

• crybabylu said on Jun 26, 2008....

  lib�er�ty
  
  NOUN:
  pl. lib�er�ties
  1. 1. The condition of being free from restriction or control.
     2. The right and power to act, believe, or express oneself in a manner of one's own choosing.
     3. The condition of being physically and legally free from confinement, servitude, or forced labor. See Synonyms at freedom.
  2. Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
  3. A right or immunity to engage in certain actions without control or interference: the liberties protected by the Bill of Rights.
  4. 1. A breach or overstepping of propriety or social convention. Often used in the plural.
     2. A statement, attitude, or action not warranted by conditions or actualities: a historical novel that takes liberties with chronology.
     3. An unwarranted risk; a chance: took foolish liberties on the ski slopes.
  5. A period, usually short, during which a sailor is authorized to go ashore.
  
  IDIOM:
  at liberty
  1. Not in confinement or under constraint; free.
  2. Not employed, occupied, or in use.

• uniquely-ironic said on Jun 26, 2008....

  I wonder what the framers of the Constitution had in mind when they used the word liberty?  I think according to the dictionary we are slipping away from A and B, but we still are doing pretty good on C.
   
  I think some of the disagreement comes when a person is restricted from saying, acting or doing something that would affect another person negatively.  Even in the 1700s there were things that the general population did not condone.  So, as the old saying goes "your right to liberty ends at the beginning of my nose".

• crybabylu said on Jun 26, 2008....

  Police state

  From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  Jump to: navigation, search

  The neutrality of this article is disputed.
  Please see the discussion on the talk page.(March 2008)
  Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved.

  The term police state is a term for a state in which the government exercises rigid and , in many peoples' opinions, repressive controls over the social, economic and political life of the population, especially by means of a secret police force which operates outside the boundaries normally imposed by a constitutional republic. A police state typically exhibits elements of totalitarianism and social control, and there is usually little or no distinction between the law and the exercise of political power by the executive.

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 26, 2008....

  See we clearly don't exist in a police state.  A police state is what was going on in Russia and Germany.
   
   

• crybabylu said on Jun 26, 2008....

  Unique---If they know about how we are functioning under the constitution right now, I bet they are "turning" in their graves......Thanks...

• curmudgeon said on Jun 26, 2008....

  "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

   
  Rights are to be defended, fought for, argued over, but one thing's for sure, we'll never really know when they're actually there or feel like it ever has come to its fullest potential. These are ideals. Outcomes always fall short.
   
  When the Founders wrote these words, slavery was still an accepted way of doing business. Pursuit of happiness didn't really apply to Africans, nor Native Americans, really. Neither did life nor liberty.
   
  So are we "freer" now than in the days of yesteryear?
   
  Are Muslim-Americans freer now in our days of war on Islamic terror than the Japanese were when we were fighting them in the Pacific? Bring up Guantanamo all you want. In terms of the scale of human suffering, Guantanamo in no way compares to the internment camps.
   
  Are African-Americans freer today than say when the Founders wrote the Preamble to the Constitution?
   
  With the advent of paper publishing, radio, television and the internet, are we now freer not only to express ourselves, but to be heard all around the world?
   
  With the coming of the sexual revolution, are people freer to engage in all kinds of relationships than say in the 1950s?
   
  Are protestors now freer to speak their minds without having to live in fear of another Kent State incident?
   
  I would say, in many ways, yes our liberties have increased, not decreased. But we seem to forget all of the ways socety constrained us in the past and take for granted how truly unconstrained our lives have become.
   
  I haven't even gone into the life idea - the reduction in infant mortality, the security our military and police forces provide us, the myriad life-preserving technologies and services provided for us by government and free-market alike.
   
  Yes, I'd say all three are very very much alive and I'm thankful to be a part of such a great nation during such an important period in our history.

• hottips4u said on Jun 26, 2008....

  Your mincing words Sean that no one will hear if they are convinced we live in a Police State.  Granted, American's have very little to do in life where you won't find a law enforcement officer.
  
  America is a Country of laws, hence the ever presents and growing numbers of law enforcement, more laws, more enforcement.  The obvious is less liberties, not more secure liberties via law enforcement.
  
  I am pro law enforcement, however, I am not blind either. 
  
  America is as aforementioned a Country of laws, yet law enforcement refuses to enforce laws against illegal aliens.  The law also seems not to apply to politicians and those in law enforcement in the same manner it is mettled out to the general society of America.
  
  Personally, I wish the men would let their hair grow, their beards grow  (hehe...I like long hair) and stop with the brush cut shaved head look of law enforcement and military rule.  Being a skin head, shaving ur skull, brush cuts.....all came from military and law enforcement styles....grow your hair your a communist, a drug dealer, maybe an Indian.... ; )
  
  Bottom line, Pa tells me all the time he can remember a day before Cam was born when he and his ole lady (his words) road all over this country and never was messed with by cops, but rednecks was different and has more than one pick up truck toss a beer bottle at them at 60 miles an hour.  Fun stuff ya know ? 
  
  There was times he went many months and never seen a cop he says...hehe over my shoulder...but thats impossible in America today. 
  
  Pa says we may not be Russia but we are pretty much as regulated in a way that looks pretty is all....for our protection. 
  
  He said if a man punches him in the mouth...he is suppose to say hey...you hit me, stand there while I call police.  In his day, men were men and if you punched someone, odds were you were getting punched back, part of being a guy he said....today...males are made into pussy's by law enforcement and took away his right as a Man to defend himself with anything larger than a cell phone.
  
  It boils down to an individuals concept of simulated liberty or actual liberty....and that I personally is attached first to who you are and who you know and how secure your credit score is....such as Libby ..ya know ?
  
  jess
  

• crybabylu said on Jun 26, 2008....

  YEAH!....i UNBLOCKED  ......Anonymous.........That other post, he/she kept disrespecting, is off of the front page now, so, it shouldn't get as much attention now, so I unblocked anon.....

• anonymous said on Jun 26, 2008....

  for starters, go to zeitgeistmovie.com and watch the movie... take the time to watch the whole thing... when you're done there, try to disprove what the movie tells you... i spent more than 2 months trying to prove that movie wrong and i just can't do it... it's all true, and it's scary! after you do your research, go to youtube and look up "george carlin it's bad for you"... george was an enlightened man and knew what he was talking about... liberties, rights, our constitution... they are an illusion... something that the government lets you think you have, in order to keep you all happy... guess what... it's all a big game... i was astounded the other day to learn that the government is arresting people for posting their thoughts on the government in their blogs on the internet... we're supposed to have "freedom of speech" and "freedom of the press"... in reality, we have no rights... like mr carlin said so well, "it's one big club, and you're not in it"...
  
  there are so many things that people need to open their eyes to, and if an "awakening" doesn't happen soon, everything as we all know it is going to change.. the only thing constant in life is change, but i'll tell you what... this is not the change that everyone is expecting it to be... and yes, it is going to effect you... it is going to effect everyone... and i'm not so sure that everyone is going to be happy with the outcome...
  

• hotaka said on Jun 26, 2008....

  It sounds good on paper but how do you make it work for everyone. It should be more like, "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness as we would like you to do it".

• crybabylu said on Jun 26, 2008....

  http://www.soulcast.com/post/show/138921/Is-This-Still-True%3F%3F

• SeanRenaud said on Jun 26, 2008....

  Well unless your an anarchist you accept that it's as we would like you to do it.

• Fallyn said on Jun 27, 2008....

  me my......the first time i'd heard of furniture being banned from front porches was in boulder colorado.....cause it was being used as fodder for massive bonfires in annual riots around the college

• Fallyn said on Jun 27, 2008....

  oh...skinheads.....in jamaica the sailors shaved their heads because of lice.......then they danced in clubs playing ska-ish music....which evolved into punk.....there was a fallout between the jamaican sailors and portugese sailors who they thought were stealing their jobs.....hence the "skinhead=militaristic" equation......and then it was adopted as a "look" by brits who fell in love with the ska music...which evolved into punk.....and then it went on to the whole white supremisist thing......etc. etc.
  
  i think i might have a time line off there......and this is probably pointless to add to the conversation......but it is 2am and i've been packing all night.
  

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