crybabylu's tags:

Do you think "off shore dilling plan" is good for US?

John McCain went to Houston, Texas, Tuesday to talk about expanding drilling for oil off the coasts of the United States as a short term solution to the nation's looming energy crisis – a shift in position for him in the face of growing concern over rising energy prices.

But regardless of his shifting his policy, one should do that if he sees the benefit, I'm wondering if it would benefit us, what do you think?



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Comments

  • papajack said on Jun 19, 2008....

    i don't see any problem with drilling off shore.  If there is alternative way of getting fuel, the story would be different but with the gas prices rising above $4 a gallon, either drill here now or regret it when other countries start drilling first. (i believe china is already drilling off of our shore 50 miles away) start drilling in Anwar which has 40 billion gallons of oil which we can use for the next 35~40 years.

  • theduke said on Jun 19, 2008....

    I think that anything that makes us more independent as a nation is something to look into. We need to get back to being a nation that can stand on its own. Then again I have no idea what kind of implications an offshore oil drilling rig has on the economy.

  • anonymous said on Jun 19, 2008....

    Considering how safe off shore drilling has become I see no reason why we can't open up the Continental shelf to oil drilling. After Katrina hit the oil derricks there were no leaks if we can build them strong enough to withstand that monster we can do it to with stand almost anything!
    As McCain said we still need to look into a long term solution and we should continue to look into alternative energy sources.

  • papajack said on Jun 19, 2008....

    Another thing! Yes! Or we can let China and Cuba drill the Oil a sell it back to us!

  • SeanRenaud said on Jun 19, 2008....

    Is there any proof that China/Cuba are drilling off shore?  I keep hearing this claim but I've yet to see proof of it.

    No nation will ever be independent again, that day has passed us by.  What I hope we can accomplish as a nation is getting to a point where more people need us.  We should be drilling offshore, we should be drilling ANWR we should be building refineries, we should be building nuclear power facilities as well.

  • crybabylu said on Jun 19, 2008....
    Yeah, I agree. It is confusing to me why it isn't being done?  Kind of crazy not to be.
  • firesky said on Jun 19, 2008....

    Anyone who says no is misinformed.  We pay more for the oil because the countries we buy it from know we have no other solution. This would give us one. Once they see that we need them no longer they will lower the price dramatically. Just the threat of drilling in Anwar and the shelf plus using the oil shale in ND and the other states will give us leverage to lower the price.

  • bloc said on Jun 19, 2008....
    i hate to rain on the parade, but it would take many years before any of this oil would hit the market AND the economists I've heard say it would drop gas prices by only a few cents per gallon. This doesn't mean we shouldn't do it, but I don't think it will change much of anything.

    @papajack
    I've heard many different claims about the amount of oil in ANWAR and I can't figure out who to believe. Where did you get the 40 billion number?
  • bloc said on Jun 19, 2008....
    I just checked how much oil we consume and america consumes about 20 billion barrels per day. This means that 40 billion barrels would only last 5 years if we only consumed it. Actually it would be shorter because our oil consumption is likely to rise.
  • bloc said on Jun 19, 2008....
    just found this. If it's 10 billion it probably won't make much of a difference at all.

    "But the most likely estimate places the ANWR's recoverable reserves at an estimated 10.3 billion barrels -- more than three times the amount these environmentalists claim." source
  • D6fer said on Jun 19, 2008....
    I think regardless of how much prices would drop it would still be a good idea.....if the last 50 years has taught us anything, it should be that energy production is paramount to a robust economy.....everyone needs it....and consumption of energy overall is not going to drop anytime soon.....might as well be on the money making end of it.

    btw.......I think that you can pay an "expert" to say whatever you want them to say these days....seems everyone is for sale....be it money, power , or influence.

    Economics 101 tells me that if you increase production, speculators will sell.....that will lower the price more than anything.....its easy to manipulate the result when using the supply/demand statistics as a percentage to show a small decrease in price, but if you don't factor in investor reaction to production, you are missing half the equation.
  • sheltercrow said on Jun 20, 2008....
    In line with bloc... From Offshore drilling: a few useful facts

    Posted by Jerome a Paris on June 18, 2008 - The Oil Drum

    Hat tip: Climate Progress and Jerome's dKos Diary.

    The U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) recently did a detailed study of the likely outcome of offshore drilling for their Annual Energy Outlook 2007, “Impacts of Increased Access to Oil and Natural Gas Resources in the Lower 48 Federal Outer Continental Shelf (OCS).” The sobering conclusion:

    The projections in the OCS access case indicate that access to the Pacific, Atlantic, and eastern Gulf regions would not have a significant impact on domestic crude oil and natural gas production or prices before 2030.

    And the impact of the projected 7% (!) increase in lower-48 oil production that might result in 2030 thanks to opening the OCS is … wait for it …

    … any impact on average wellhead prices is expected to be insignificant.

    Also be sure to check out Andrew Leonard's piece on offshore drilling too.

    Also from the report...

    For AEO2007, an OCS access case was prepared to examine the potential impacts of the lifting of Federal restrictions on access to the OCS in the Pacific, the Atlantic, and the eastern Gulf of Mexico. Currently, except for a relatively small tract in the eastern Gulf, resources in those areas are legally off limits to exploration and development. Mean estimates from the MMS indicate that technically recoverable resources currently off limits in the lower 48 OCS total 18 billion barrels of crude oil and 77 trillion cubic feet of natural gas (Table 10).

    Although existing moratoria on leasing in the OCS will expire in 2012, the AEO2007 reference case assumes that they will be reinstated, as they have in the past. Current restrictions are therefore assumed to prevail for the remainder of the projection period, with no exploration or development allowed in areas currently unavailable to leasing. The OCS access case assumes that the current moratoria will not be reinstated, and that exploration and development of resources in those areas will begin in 2012.

    [...]

    ...it is assumed that local infrastructure issues and other potential non-Federal impediments will be resolved after Federal access restrictions have been lifted. With these assumptions, technically recoverable undiscovered resources in the lower 48 OCS increase to 59 billion barrels of oil and 288 trillion cubic feet of natural gas, as compared with the reference case levels of 41 billion barrels and 210 trillion cubic feet.

    [...]

    Total domestic production of crude oil from 2012 through 2030 in the OCS access case is projected to be 1.6 percent higher than in the reference case, and 3 percent higher in 2030 alone, at 5.6 million barrels per day. For the lower 48 OCS, annual crude oil production in 2030 is projected to be 7 percent higher—2.4 million barrels per day in the OCS access case compared with 2.2 million barrels per day in the reference case (Figure 20). Because oil prices are determined on the international market, however, any impact on average wellhead prices is expected to be insignificant.
  • crybabylu said on Jun 20, 2008....
     
  • center_right said on Jun 20, 2008....
    Interesting.
     
    OK....We should be exploiting all of our natural resources.  Offshore drilling being just one.  Now, it wouldn't take "10 years" as people have stated.  My research indicates between 2-6 years depending on where they drill. 
     
    However, we would see an immediate drop in price.  The speculators speculate 10 to 15 years out.  IF the US started drilling, then the speculators would slow down and the price would drop.  Speculators are the biggest culprits in the high cost of oil now.   Speculators are international, so regulating the US speculators does little to nothing.  Remember, the commodities market is like the stock market and little things can dramatically shift the market.
     
    ANWR is a waste of time and effort.  Let people keep that wasteland.  We should be looking at the 800 billion barrels under Utah and colorado. 
     
    In addition, the fact that we will begin drilling our own oil will impact OPEC.  They wouldn't want us to keep drilling. 
     
    A comprehensive plan of utilizing our natural resources, investing in alternative fuels, lifting the tariffs on Brazil so we can get their sugar based ethanol that actually is a viable alternative compared to the garbage corn based we use, and giving tax incentives to the car makers for hybrids and flex fuel vehicles will move us out of this mess.  Hydrogen cars are DECADES away because of the cost of making and storing the hydrogen.
     
    IF a comprehensive plan, including drilling, were to be presented and put into law, then we would see an immediate decrease in oil prices. 
  • bloc said on Jun 20, 2008....
    You guys keep mentioning speculators. I'm not sure how much of an impact they have, but I want to point out that Republican deregulation is what created this issue with speculators.


  • curmudgeon said on Jun 20, 2008....
    Drilling may or may not have an immediate effect on prices, but what proposal have we heard that will?
     
    Alternative energy sourcing also has a years-long development / implementation timeline. As was pointed  out, hydrogen is years away, and we'd still have to actually find sources of hydrogen that don't require as much energy to extract / produce it than it delivers.
     
    The only real way to impact pricing in the short term is severely curtailing usage. I myself question the necessity of driving some place, and then I consider whether the trip is actually necessary. But even this may not drop prices much if China and India just soak up whatever we leave off.
     
    One good thing about these high prices is that people finally seem to be getting serious about conservaton and/or looking at alternatives. Were prices to drop tomorrow, we'd go right back to our old habits. How can you know you're sick until you feel the symptoms?
     
    As far as drilling, maybe we prioritize the biggest, most easily available known deposits, using the least environmentally unfriendly extraction techniques.
     
    But as was pointed out, we really need to be looking at a whole range of options to increase supply, reduce usage, and use our supplies more efficiently.
  • bloc said on Jun 20, 2008....
    @curm
    I think you nailed it, prices aren't really going to go down. Demand is rising everywhere and a little more supply won't have any real impact. This highlights a flaw in our political system. The best thing we could have done would have been artificially raising prices years ago to encourage alternatives (via a market approach) and conservation. Unfortunately any politician recommending such would have thrown out faster than Nixon.


    Btw, I laughed at this: "least environmentally unfriendly". Felt like I was back in logic class. 'unless x or y' is the same as 'not x and not y' 
  • dyingman said on Jun 21, 2008....
    bloc's posts covered my objections well.

    McCain's plan is a band-aid.
    The oil China drills, they will use.  They won't have any left to sell to us.

    Hell, if we COULD buy from the Chinese we SHOULD!
    We're buying from the Saudis!
    How many Chinese were on the 9/11 airplaces?

    I buy all my gas from CITGO.  CITGO uses only Venezuelan oil.
    Maybe Bush hates Hugo Chavez, but how many Venezuelan's scream "Death to America" at their little get-togethers?

    That said, China will use any oil they find and buy less from the Saudis.  That will lower the price for us.  Let them drill.  We need to make wind farms, cellulosic ethanol, and algal biodiesel so we can then turn our sights on nuclear fusion, the last step to energy independence.

    Electric vehicles and plug in hybrids exist today.  The myth that alternative fuels are a future phenomenon serves the interest of oil industries, not the truth.  even if it WERE true.  We have a LOT of coal.  Coal can run our cars if we're serious about eliminating foreign oil.  Solar energy, thanks to rising fossil fuel prices is very close to being cost-efficient.  Solar film is being produced next year.  The future is closer than the five years it will take to get at McCain's oil.

    *DM
  • SeanRenaud said on Jun 21, 2008....
    Well spoken, but wrong on nearly every point.
     
    1.  Lets start with the most rediculous point.  Electric vehicles and hybrids exist, but the technology still isn't cost efficient, and it's unlikely that it will be terribly soon.  Truth is you never know how quickly a new technology will take root, maybe the turkey guts into oil guy will manage to accomplish what he claimed which was spending 15 BTUs of energy could creat 100 for a net gain of 85%, oddly enough the EXACT opposite turns out to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changing_World_Technologies.  Not saying it's not worth further exploration, even plant building in areas where it can significantly reduce landfill space.  But the reality is that the technology just isn't here yet, and drilling is.  So is refining.
     
    2.  I don't believe that China/Cuba is really drilling off the Florida coast.  I really think that's a Right Wing rumor cus I've never been able to find any proof that it's happening.  So while I think this is bs I'll treat it as truth.  Letting China drill in our "territory" would be stupid.  It's a fact in this country that enviromentalists are preventing us (inpart) from becoming more energy independent.  We could drill what we've got we could also build more refineries, all the oil in the world doesn't make a spot of difference if you don't have enough refineries.  The idea that allowing China to drill in Miami, in the hopes that they will buy less from the Saudies and lower the price for us is twisted to say the least.  It's the same kind of logic as "Hey the reason we haven't had another terrorist attack is because every single terrorist in the whole world is in Iraq now!"
     
    3.  The ten years number is just a number.  India and China seem to be able to get oil rigs up and running in 2-4 years. 
     
    4.  Europe artificially raised prices ages ago and. . .well they do have much more fuel efficient cars than we do.  They still haven't figured any magic. 
     
    5.  Drilling is significantly more than a bandaid if we truly have more oil than the Saudis.  It's not a cure but to suggest it's a band aid is to claim it would do nothing.
     
    6.  I would really like to see a chart on China and India's increased demand.  If there demand was the driving force behind the increase in price why has it gone up roughly 25% in a little over 9 months? I really think we're just scapegoating on them.  If it were that simple why is OPEC having meetings over why is the price so high?  The last thing they want is for prices to continue to rise, we already are starting to cut back.  Not to mention they must be aware of how important oil is modern life it's more than just gas, it's plastic and medicine, and electricty.  Oil is life, and not a one of those nations could stop the US or China or Russia or any European power from TAKING it from them if it really came down to that.  They've got the tigers by the tail but they have to be aware that there are claws and jaws on the opposite end.
     
     
  • bloc said on Jun 21, 2008....
    @sean

    regarding point 4, no one said that artificially raising prices would cause magic. You are the one mistaken. Europe's economy is far less dependent on oil than the american economy. It will certainly have a negative effect on them, but not nearly as bad as here. You live out here in Socal and know how many people bought homes in places like palmdale and drive to LA to work. This is a disaster waiting to happen, and is happening. Europe doesn't have this problem anywhere close to the degree that we do. They also use mass transit at far higher rates. I think it's clear that europes policies have had an impact. 

    5. and that is one giant "if' that is completely false. 

    6. What do you believe is behind the cost if not demand from those countries?

    1. I have no idea what you're saying in point 1. 


  • bloc said on Jun 21, 2008....
    "China's imports of oil rose nearly 13% in the first five months of the year. [2008]" source
  • bloc said on Jun 21, 2008....
    @sean
    regarding China and Cuba. They are in negotiations to drill off the coast of cuba. As we all know Cuba is very close so people can say they are drilling x miles off our coast and it sounds like something terrible. They are talking about drilling off of Cuba's coast! The craziest part is that Cuba wanted to let American companies bid to drill their as well, but they were barred by our government due to the embargo.
  • SeanRenaud said on Jun 21, 2008....
    Ok that story atleast sounds realistic.  I'd always dismissed it out of hand cus it sounded stupid, but those aren't our waters to begin with.  I mean that's like saying billy's mom lets him smoke in doors and since Billy is right next door it's not fair that you make me go out to the sidewalk.
  • bloc said on Jun 21, 2008....
    I realized I haven't really stated my opinion. I think we could reach a compromise that will make the vast majority of people happy. Let the companies drill and in return the companies will donate x millions to research into alternatives (or something environmentally friendly) and let some environmental organization oversee the construction. 

    I don't think drilling will have any real impact on prices, but we can make some money off of it (both the oil companies and the research they donate to).
  • D6fer said on Jun 22, 2008....
    I would think that oil companies would know how much oil is truly out there to be had.....if they were worried about running out anytime soon, then they would be heavily investing into alternative sources of energy....that is common sense.
    I have seen commercials where BP for instance is investing into alternative fuel research.

    Looks like technology for electric cars has finally gotten efficient.....now we just need more electricity.....nuclear power is the most efficient means to deliver that.
  • bloc said on Jun 22, 2008....
    "if they were worried about running out anytime soon, then they would be heavily investing into alternative sources of energy....that is common sense."

    peak oil doesn't mean we're going to run out soon. It means that the level of production isn't really going to to up, and demand will outstrip supply. Oil companies aren't worried because their going to make more money than ever.

    "Looks like technology for electric cars has finally gotten efficient"

    The problem is the batteries. We haven't made too much progress on that front :/
  • SeanRenaud said on Jun 22, 2008....
    But they aren't, they are going to spend more money getting a less oil, and as I understand it peak oil isn't a plateau theory, it's a curve.  If we've hit the top it should rapidly fall off in recovery and coupled with the increased consumption should be really really catastrophic.  There really isn't enough panic amongst those who's lives depend on this for it to be true.  But then again we're talking about people who have a basic divide from science and think theory =guess work.
  • bloc said on Jun 22, 2008....
    "they are going to spend more money getting a less oil"

    True, but they are going to charge a whole lot more for it. They will make more than they make now on the same amount of oil.

    " it's a curve.  If we've hit the top it should rapidly fall"

    I don't think the rapidly part is correct. you compared it to a bell curve before, and a bell curve doesn't rapidly fall off. Demand increases, and supply goes down, so you get rapidly increasing prices. 

    "There really isn't enough panic amongst those who's lives depend on this for it to be true"

    This is probably human nature. I think one of the places you and I often disagree is that you assume people act rationally. They usually don't, even very smart people. There is a great book called Collapse which discusses the way societies collapse when their culture won't change to meet changing circumstances. Culture is a powerful thing, and our culture is one of high consumption. 

    think about it. Whenever we have a discussion like this, if I recommend that the only real solution is a change in lifestyle I get resistance from everyone. And I mean everyone, not just the d6's of SC. For example, the single best thing we can do to reduce our consumption of fossil fuels is to eat less meat. This gets derision from virtually everyone. Very few people are willing to make such a small change in their lifestyle even if it would have great benefits. 

    I see no reason to believe that the level of panic corresponds to the truth of our situation. 


  • SeanRenaud said on Jun 22, 2008....
    True, I do assume people act rationally.  I still think that if Exxon really thought we would be out of oil shortly that we would be seeing different behavior from them.
     
    Also my reason for believing it should be rapid decline unlike a normal bell curve is because this is a different situation.  A normal bell curve (imx) has less factors involved.  Just finding less oil while consumption remained the same would produce an average bell curve, what we have here is finding less oil AND China and India leaping into the market in a big way and they can't be the only nations that are increasing their needs.  We need to find and extract and refine more oil and faster and if we've peaked that's pretty much impossible.  Unless some other tech comes along like that turkey guts into oil guy, or I wish I'd stayed in the car cus on the radio I heard some Canadian found away to trick bacteria into eating trash and excreeting oil.  But unless we find and figure one of those out oil something has got to give.
     
    A lifestyle change is the only way we'll make it with todays tech.  I think part of is that "everybody" believes that somebody will come along and solve this problem magically.  Some of the changes that people are resistant to I don't understand.  Like the lightbulbs thing.  I would use Mass Transit if it were fessible, I hate to drive.  Not because I hate putting gas in my tank, even now that's a huge annoyance but that's what it is a nuisance.  I just don't enjoy driving.  I'd much rather be reading, writing or playing my DS.    It just isn't feesible with the way CA was built.  I like meat, course how much less is less starts coming to mind as well.
  • bloc said on Jun 22, 2008....
    again, peak oil doesn't mean we will be out of oil. There is more oil, like the shale oil or whatever it's called, but ti's more expensive to extract. It was never worthwhile until the price went above a certain point. Also, as prices go up, demand will be put in check so we won't run out of oil overnight. Prices will go up and oil companies will be fine for a pretty long time.
  • SeanRenaud said on Jun 22, 2008....
    Well I wasn't particularly worried about the oil companies.  I just assumed that they would be actively and agressively looking for the next big thing.  I see your point though.  I guess that really depends on who you listen to when it comes to peak oil and peak oil theory.  Many of the theorys like the Hirsch report pretty much says it will happen pretty much overnight.  Which bears a pretty good comparison to what is happening right now.  If gas continues to increase at a rate of one dollar per year well that's pretty bad.   
  • bloc said on Jun 22, 2008....
    i was trying to think of a good analogy for the rationality issue and I think I found one. Given your beliefs why do most americans consider themselves Christians if you believe that people generally behave rationally?

    p.s. - I'm not making any assertions about Christianity, I'm basing this on what sean believes.
  • SeanRenaud said on Jun 22, 2008....
    Honestly I think that (and have said in the past) that the overwhelming majority of Christians are hypocrits and are Christian in name only.  They don't really believe and it's evident through their general behavior.  Hense they rationalize out anything that doesn't fit both their personal world view AND their reality.  See ALIEN on well anything
  • bloc said on Jun 22, 2008....
    but I wouldn't call that rational behavior ;)
  • SeanRenaud said on Jun 22, 2008....
    Touche'
     
     
  • sheltercrow said on Jun 22, 2008....
    The understanding I have is that speculation has driven the price of oil.
  • D6fer said on Jun 22, 2008....
    speculation is having an effect on the price of oil, but supply will have a profound effect on speculation.

    This is probably human nature. I think one of the places you and I often disagree is that you assume people act rationally. They usually don't, even very smart people.

    bloc....I was surprised to see you post that.....my biggest beef with you in many discussions that we have had, is that you totally disregard human nature, and focus on what "should be"
    rather than what is most likely......I know you will want an example....and at the moment it escapes me....but bookmark this in your mind and I'll spring it on you when it's convenient! ;p

  • bloc said on Jun 23, 2008....
    @d6
    you're probably right that I've contradicted myself somewhere. We all have :)

    However, my point with most things is that we should strive for the ideals we've laid out in things like the Constitution. I know we'll never live up to them perfectly, but I believe our society will go backwards if we stop trying to do the right thing and instead let our emotions like fear take over.
  • D6fer said on Jun 23, 2008....
    hmmmmm....alot of that goin around I think.
  • curmudgeon said on Jun 24, 2008....
    bloc & sean - I'm enjoying your conversation very much.
     
    The problem I see with this peak oil, bell curve theory - and I'm no expert, is it's ability to predict human behavior. As gas prices keep rising these days, I'm hearing in the news that consumption is falling. The New York Times recently reported that people are moving closer to work and opting for urban life closer to mass transit, and away from suburban or exurban. Not arguing that there is some massive shift here, but consumption patterns are changing out of necessity.
     
    I think a more complete picture would be that as availability decreases and prices increase, consumer behavior will adjust and a new temporary equilibrium will be reached. Oil and gas will remain more expensive, to be sure, but people will adapt as they have always done and will always do. What other choice do we have?
     
    As for meat, the steaks I love so much are reportedly about to be come far more expensive due to the flooding in the midwest. That kale and spinach are looking pretty tasty about now! :-)
  • SeanRenaud said on Jun 24, 2008....
    Peak Oil, in theory, has little to do with how much people use.  It has to do with how much there is.  If there is X amount of oil in the ground we start off finding what's easy to find, we increasingly find oil speeding up until we've found the majority of it would represents the peak.  After that oil becomes increasingly difficult to find simply because there is less of it  in the world and we find less and less until we've found effectively the last of it.  You know like hunting those last few whales are gonn a be hard to find.
     
    The thing that Peak Oil doesn't take into account are technology leaps.  It assumes that technology will proceed at a predictable and steady pace allowing us access to increasingly difficult to aquire oil with ease.  It cannot predict if say that guy who thinks he can turn turkey guts and other agricultural waste into oil masters it.  It can't account for tricking e.coli into shitting oil  and better oil than we pump out of the ground. http://www.gizmag.com/go/7723/  Now nobody knows if these things are going to become viable in the near future.  One claims to be able to make oil at a price of $15 per barrel, the other at $40.  (To be fair I don't know what a barrel costs to produce right now)
     
    Human consumption is a separate issue, they are related to one another but they aren't the same issue.  What you say about people finding equilibrium is mostly true, we won't really have a choice.  Can we do it quickly enough?  I can't stress enough that oil is more than just gasoline. 
     
    I'm not a big complainer about population, granted I would like to see better technology to clean up the world as much as we can but I don't think our population is a problem right now.  With out oil can we feed our current population?  Can we keep them warm in the winter? 
     
     
  • SeanRenaud said on Jun 24, 2008....
    Peak Oil, in theory, has little to do with how much people use.  It has to do with how much there is.  If there is X amount of oil in the ground we start off finding what's easy to find, we increasingly find oil speeding up until we've found the majority of it would represents the peak.  After that oil becomes increasingly difficult to find simply because there is less of it  in the world and we find less and less until we've found effectively the last of it.  You know like hunting those last few whales are gonn a be hard to find.
     
    The thing that Peak Oil doesn't take into account are technology leaps.  It assumes that technology will proceed at a predictable and steady pace allowing us access to increasingly difficult to aquire oil with ease.  It cannot predict if say that guy who thinks he can turn turkey guts and other agricultural waste into oil masters it.  It can't account for tricking e.coli into shitting oil  and better oil than we pump out of the ground. http://www.gizmag.com/go/7723/  Now nobody knows if these things are going to become viable in the near future.  One claims to be able to make oil at a price of $15 per barrel, the other at $40.  (To be fair I don't know what a barrel costs to produce right now)
     
    Human consumption is a separate issue, they are related to one another but they aren't the same issue.  What you say about people finding equilibrium is mostly true, we won't really have a choice.  Can we do it quickly enough?  I can't stress enough that oil is more than just gasoline. 
     
    I'm not a big complainer about population, granted I would like to see better technology to clean up the world as much as we can but I don't think our population is a problem right now.  With out oil can we feed our current population?  Can we keep them warm in the winter? 
     
     

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