• DaddysLittleSlut said on Jun 11, 2008....

  I'm not by any means an expert on the subject but my 2 cents...
  1st you don't become a slave until you know that Master is going to provide SSC
  because your only options is to change the nature of the relationship - either leave or renegotiate.  These are two things that you may no longer be able to emotionally do if you've actually become a victim. 
  
  There is an interesting discussion on this forum.  http://www.seekdiscipline.com/boards/ie_theory/176962/1
   
  In most (the ones reading this) countries actual enslavement is illegal. 
   
  If the relationship is not making you happy, you should be free to leave and the one enslaving you should help you to go.  In a proper enslavement, master should be ensuring your happiness and if unable to provide it, should let you go.
   
  For me personally, i consider myself the submissive property of Master that's willing to do anything for Him.  (kind of the same but not quite)
  dls

• collared_whore said on Jun 11, 2008....

  i am sure there a lots of different opinions about this and lots of ways to do it, but here's my opinion.  First off mimi, i don't think your use of the term Master is incorrect.  You and your Master have mutually agreed on that name so it is correct for the two of you, and really that's all that matters.  :)  Additionally, i think the "s" in M/s can mean either slave or submissive.  i consider myself a submissive not a slave.  The difference to me (and my Master) is that because i am a sub not a slave, my Master takes my needs, wants, desires and opinions into consideration.  In O/our view, with a slave, a Master doesn't do those things, a Master only considers what He or She wants.  Also, in my mind, i would think that a slave wouldn't have a safe word in play, whereas, a submissive would.  Maybe the difference is this:  as a submissive, i ultimately have control over what happens, because all i have to do to stop something is say my safe word.  In contrast, as a slave, the only control you have is agreeing to be a slave; once you've agreed to be a slave, you can't stop a particular activity, the only thing you can stop is being a slave by ending the Master/slave relationship.  Obviously, those are only my subjective views and others may have different opinions.  In tems of safe, sane and consensual and how that fits into slavery, i would hope that if a person is going to become a slave, there has first been a lot of communication and discussion regarding safe, sane and consensual activities.  Also, in the "real" world, slavery is illegal, as dls points out, so there are certain limits as to what can be done, ie, a Master can't take His or Her slave's life for example.  That is murder in the real world.
   
  Also, mimi, one of the things you mention is "a slave exists for the Master's pleasure and use."  i think, however, that that is not the differentiation between a slave and a sub, because i think that as a collared sub, i exist for my Master's pleasure and use.  His pleasure is first and foremost, and i derive my pleasure and fulfillment from pleasing Him, no matter what the task is.   

• sweetsoul said on Jun 11, 2008....

  onlymimi, I agree, for the most part, with collared whore's comments. (Nice to see you posting again collared whore.)
   
  The only point I differ on is this one - "The difference to me (and my Master) is that because i am a sub not a slave, my Master takes my needs, wants, desires and opinions into consideration.  In O/our view, with a slave, a Master doesn't do those things, a Master only considers what He or She wants."
   
  I don't think it's that a Master doesn't do those things, but that he doesn't need to - meaning he may if he so chooses.
   
  As for where does the SSC fit in with a M/s relationship, it's my understanding that it's at the beginning before the two people enter into the relationship. There should be some discussion/negotiation of what expectations the Master has and what concerns the slave has (limits if she was a submissive). For example if I was to enter into such a relationship, I would want to make sure my potential Master was of the belief that even if I was his property that I was a valuable property and as such he would want to take good care of me...even cherish me.  But if I misjudged or he changed his mind, collared whore is correct - I'd have no safe word, only the ability to leave the relationship. I've heard of some M/s relationships negotiating up front the Master's financial responsibility to the slave if the relationship ends (since the slave's income was given to the Master during the relationship).
   
  All this from some discussion on anal training, eh? :D

• collared_whore said on Jun 11, 2008....

  sweet soul--thanks.  :)  and i agree with your comment/clarification that a Master doesn't need to do those things, but may if He or She chooses to do so.

• silverwhisper said on Jun 11, 2008....

  what collared whore said. i think that she's absolutely right on this.
  
  ed

• his-slut said on Jun 11, 2008....

  Collared whore I have to disagree with one thing.  You said "as a slave, the only control you have is agreeing to be a slave",  but in my tons of internet research into this area I have come across several sites that describe signing yourself into a Master/Slave relationship by literally signing a contract.  These contracts are quite specifics in what is expected of both parties.  Therefore you (a slave)  would have control before you sign that contract.  As with any contract I would expect to be able to say yea or nay.  By agree to it you have control in the whole relationship to begin with.  You may not have a safeword, but that was your choice in the first place.  Does that make any sense?

• collared_whore said on Jun 12, 2008....

  Hi his-slut, i've seen those articles on contracts, too, both for slaves and subs.  To me, a contract is part of the negotiating process ahead of time, and i agree that both sides have control in that process; but i do think that once the slave is a slave, then their control and choices are severely restricted, more so than a sub's.  And yes, that is their choice as a slave.  Personally, i think that part of the issue is that there a lot of people who use sub and slave interchangeably, but to me, they are different things.  In my view, and again, it is just that, my opinion, not some law written in stone, a slave has a whole lot less to say about how the relationship will work than a sub does, even if there is a contract negotiated.    

• his-slut said on Jun 12, 2008....

  Collared whore--I agree with you 100% that a sub and slave are totally different.  I just think a slave does have a certain amount of control by a contract ahead of time because it states what he/she will/won't do. 

  Onlymimi wrote "If i understand it correctly, a slave gives up total control to her (or his) Master, with no limits.  The slave exists for the Master's pleasure and use.  If this is the case, then choosing a Master wisely is of the utmost importance because the slave's very life could depend on it. "  this is true, but with prearranged limits via the contract.  Contracts also state that Owners will not cause permanent harm to the slaves, they have a requirement to take care of the slave in reguards to food, medicine,doctors and such.

• sweetsoul said on Jun 12, 2008....

  his-slut and for the sake of playing devil's advocate...if both a sub and slave negotiated a contract up front with limits, and the Dom/Master doesn't respect the limits set, what avenue do the sub and slave have and how do they differ? To me that's the crux of it.

• his-slut said on Jun 12, 2008....

  A sub has the ability to change her limits, to push them.  I recently readdressed my own hard limit of anal sex.  Why?  Because I wanted to.  A slave does not have this freedom  once the relationship has begun that's it, unless you leave it.  A Dom/sub relationship is constantly growing and changing as the Dom helps the sub overcome fears and to push their limits.  This gives the Dom control and the sub the pleasure of doing things to please the Dom.  Plus subs don't usually have contracts do they?  What you have is an understanding of what the Dom wants and what the sub can handle.

• his-slut said on Jun 12, 2008....

  Plus a sub can discuss issues with their Dom, not so the slave

• sweetsoul said on Jun 12, 2008....

  Agreed...that difference was my point.
   
  Depending on how you define a contract, some subs do have one. I consider that I had one...a written document that summarized our lengthy discussion about what was acceptable and what wasn't, what was expected, what each of our responsibilites was, as well as other issues.
   
  I'm not sure I agree with your comment that a slave can't discuss issues with her Master. Of course it depends on the relationship, but I think often it's quite acceptable, just the Master can still do what he wants after the discussion, though he also has the choice of taking into consideration what was discussed.

• onlymimi said on Jun 12, 2008....

  Thank you all for your comments, and i apologize for not getting here sooner.  So much wisdom here -- it's just excellent!

  Since it's two in the morning, i will keep it brief.  i'm learning a lot and thinking a lot.  i enjoy hearing everyone's thoughts.  :)

• sweetsoul said on Jun 13, 2008....

  woman sleep...sleep. :)

  Having read the original post you referred to, I think your questions arose because of the use of 'slave' for a submissive. Of course we may call ourselves as we wish, but it makes it confusing for others when it's not meant the same way as others/most use it.

• Master'sLittleKitten said on Aug 06, 2008....

  Alright I know this is the first time I posted but to me some slaves might have a safe-word especially at the beginning of a new relationship even if they agreed to become a slave. I feel this allows the slave to communicate when things are going beyond what the slave is comfortable with; but it is still up to the Master or Mistress if they choose to stop the action with the slave. On the other hand a submissive would have one and once used the Master or Mistress would stop said action.
  
  Another point I find different between slaves and submissives is submissives have the right to negotiate the terms of their submission even after being collared. For example there ability to stop and ongoing action there ability to have limits and the like. Submissives have the right to expect to be treated how they deem by there Doms (or what ever they choose to be call by there submissive). This would give submissives "rights" from the start of the relationship.
  
  As for me I am proud to be owned property it is a simple fact of life for me. I have seen people say that slaves still hold the right to leave but once connected to a Master for long enough it does not really seem like an option.
  
  Master's Little Kitten
  

• DaddysLittleSlut said on Aug 06, 2008....

  Welcome Kitten,
  I keep thinking of this post.. its a wonder that it popped up again..
  I wonder how being a slave differs from the old marriage commitment wives make of love, honor, and obey?   I had that taken out of my marriage ceremony back in the day...lol
  But in my commitment to Master i had a limit list. I told him that now i would do anything He asked of me.  However,  I know he understands that i would try to do anything for Him. I also know that He would never ask me to do something that i was not properly trained to do.
  It is that trust that allows me to give up control but.... have i really given up my safe, sane, concentual... i think i've just trusted Master to keep me safe, sane, and concentual.  If, conceptually, i no longer trusted Master to keep me SSC, i would not be able to stay with Him.
  I don't consider myself a slave because of our relationship is long distance and i have freedoms and responsibilities of my own.
  As a slave, do you give up your responsibilities - like work as well?
  Dls

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