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A single original thought?

SeanRenaud posted on Jun 03, 2008 | views: 434 | Tags: thoughts, plagiarism, defeats the object, lazy soulcasters, PIGbush, JERKmanCHILD, WARpig
Many of us, myself included often include links to other sites, news articles that caught our interest, research that backs up a statement we've made, pictures because we think it's funny.  Occasionally people will post something for a game or a comic that we find amusing but I'm noticing a growing trend of cut and past on Soulcast.
 
Am I the only person who finds it really disturbing that there are people who seem to have so few original thoughts that they can't even bother to offer comentary on the articles they copy and paste?  To say nothing of the WOW/LOTR posts that flood the pages.


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Comments

  • Twylarants said on Jun 03, 2008....
    No, you're not the only one.
  • Zayda said on Jun 03, 2008....
    I second what Twyla said.


    Although, I'm not sure that I'm not guilty of the not offering comments. I didn't really offer a comment in the post when I posted the announcement about Harvey Korman's death or Bo Diddley's death. My comments came in comments. But, I suspect you aren't really referring to those kinds of posts but to more substantial posts where someone copies a whole news article from another source.


    Technically, BTW, if you copy an entire news article from another source, even if you link to the original source, you are plagiarizing.
  • exhibit_c said on Jun 03, 2008....
    Wait a minute! I  have a link about that somewhere.
  • Twylarants said on Jun 03, 2008....
     Zayda~ I think Sean's referring to posts that are put up just for the purpose of posting something.  That's what I'm referring to, at least. Your posts are informative. I didn't know about Harvey Korman's death until you mentioned it, and since I was a fan, I was interested.
     
  • starchini said on Jun 03, 2008....
    hmm...i dont cut and paste...i should start...i guess im a little self centered always blogging about whats in my own head and not about the world...but hey, people can read the news themsleves, like i go to msnbc to catch up.  So i dont feel the need to paste it hear cuz everyone can go to msnbc...
  • Lucytorial said on Jun 03, 2008....
    What bothers me most is that certain people cut and paste and leave off making an informed comment on their own post ~ third Twirly and Zayda.

    I have left comments on certain posts like this asking for their opinion and have never been responded to, its like a vacuous silence.  Definitely plagiarizing, you cannot post something in a forum like this as a mirror to the actual article without bringing into question copyright.
  • SeanRenaud said on Jun 03, 2008....
    Ditto that you're informative Zayda, there are things that people miss in the news.  Particularly if they aren't part of a particular circle.  Gary Gygax died a few weeks back (the man who invented/Created DnD) if you weren't a fan you probably didn't notice.  I don't mind Hey so and so died!  With a post next to it saying damn that sucks.  I often write that's cool.
     
    I'm talking about complete copy and pastes.  See pretty much ANYTHING posted by anybody named Crow on this site (I suspect both *all three?* are the same person.)  I see far to much of that on this site.  It gums things up and makes it harder to find posts worth commenting on.
     
  • uniquely-ironic said on Jun 03, 2008....
    I've done this, and have made an attempt to leave my own thoughts.  Then again, some days I don't have a lot of spare thoughts.
     
     
  • SeanRenaud said on Jun 03, 2008....
    Neither do I, sometimes I just post a link and say enjoy, but that's far from the norm and usually something that is entertainment. 
  • Zayda said on Jun 03, 2008....
    Posting just a link to something is far different than copying and pasting an entire article and posting it in your own blog.


    Basically, when posting a link most people are saying, "hey, here's an interesting link that some of you out there might be interested in".


    But copying and pasting entire articles is 1) plagiarism (even if you link to the original source, it's plagiarism), and 2) well, just kind of laziness, IMHO.


    And U-I, I don't think I've seen you copy and paste an entire article from another website, ever.
  • curmudgeon said on Jun 03, 2008....
    I'm all about the commentary. My links generally go to news articles about which I'm commenting.
     
    Blogging, especially on Soulcast, ought to be from one's personal perspective, not just linking to other people's stuff.
     
    If I want an aggregate of news articles and/or links to partisan websites, I won't go to someone's blog, I'll just use a search engine.
  • SeanRenaud said on Jun 03, 2008....
    It seems that a good rule of thumb is any blogger with a bird in the name is a plagarist. on some level.
  • Hexie said on Jun 03, 2008....

    I'd say they kind of post you refer to defeats the object of a blog. Isn't the point of these things to have a place to express your thoughts and feelins on a subject, rather than just copying someone else's stuff? Otherwise it just turns into so much white noise really.

    Actually something just occured to me...  Those of us in the younger generation are no longer really encouraged to have our own thoughts, and the rest are pushed ever closer to the worker ant mentality.... i. .e think only what we tell you...

    Ok that was random... I think I'll leave it at that. Protracted discourse appears to beyond my ability tonight ;)

     

  • sheltercrow said on Jun 03, 2008....
    I and the other crows are quite unconcerned with your charges of plagiarism.

    1. To use and pass off (the ideas or writings of another) as one's own.
    2. To appropriate for use as one's own passages or ideas from (another).

    We have shortened out posts for the simple reason that the reading public here lacks the ability to read more than three sentences without forgetting what the first sentence said. I had one complaint and deleted the entire post.

    As to the idea that one should make a personal comment with each post? I find that idea absurd when taking into consideration the amount of abuse leveled at people for the simplest of comments.
  • uniquely-ironic said on Jun 03, 2008....
    Z - you're right.  In reviewing I tend to paste a link and then add a few lines of my own thoughts.  I don't know that I would ever presume to pass off lucid logical articles as my own. :)
  • Zayda said on Jun 03, 2008....
    Actually, Mr. Crow, all of the following are considered plagiarism:

    • turning in someone else's work as your own
    • copying words or ideas from someone else without giving credit
    • failing to put a quotation in quotation marks
    • giving incorrect information about the source of a quotation
    • changing words but copying the sentence structure of a source without giving credit
    • copying so many words or ideas from a source that it makes up the majority of your work, whether you give credit or not

    The last one is especially important concerning the bulk of your blogs. What you are doing by copying entire articles from other sources is plagiarism, even if you link to that source.

    Plagiarism is not simply about taking someone else's words. Any time you take the words or ideas of someone else and present those ideas as if they are your own, you plagiarize if you do not give proper credit to the person or the source from whence the ideas came.

    What you do when copying would not be considered fair use either.

    What is not fair use:

    The nature of your use.
    If you have merely copied something, it is unlikely to be considered fair use. But if the material has been transformed in an original way through interpretation, analysis, etc., it is more likely to be considered "fair use."

    The amount you've used.
    The more you've "borrowed," the less likely it is to be considered fair use. What percentage of your work is "borrowed" material? What percentage of the original did you use? The lower the better.

    The effect of your use on the original
    If you are creating a work that competes with the original in its own market, and may do the original author economic harm, any substantial borrowing is unlikely to be considered fair use. The more the content of your work or its target audience differs from that of the original, the better .                             Source


    Technically, the original writers of the sources that you copy and post in your blogs could come after for copyright violation if they were aware of your blog and your use of their materials.

    Second, your continue insulting of the intelligence of the readers of this site is growing old. People on this site are intelligent and thoughtful readers. You seem to think that your intelligence is superior to most people here. That is simply untrue.

  • sheltercrow said on Jun 03, 2008....
    That I have not yet been remarkably impressed by a single comment from a single blogger here is true.
  • sheltercrow said on Jun 03, 2008....
    On a lighter note I have the impression that you may think that the outside world actually has an interest on what is posted here. Is that true?
  • mom said on Jun 03, 2008....

    thinking....... I don't know if I have everdone that.  I also don't recall reading someone who did copy and paste whole articles.

    My blogs are too stupid and maniacal to be anyone elses thoughts, which I prefer that way. Everyone has their own way of doing things, if I don't like it, I don't read it usually.

  • SeanRenaud said on Jun 03, 2008....
    No, I highly doubt that anybody of any great importance is reading these blogs, I'm highly skeptical that you've done any harm to any of the authors you've stolen from.  It doesn't make what you're doing any less wrong though. 
     
     
  • sheltercrow said on Jun 03, 2008....
    Wrong? Really.
     
    Point if I may. I have yet to read a single comment or "personal" blog post that has been placed on this or any site I've visited that hasn't involved some kind of intellectual plagiarism. You and the rest of the star cast here all seem to think you are singularities. You are not.
  • SeanRenaud said on Jun 03, 2008....
    Yes, wrong.  If you are stating that nobody here lives in a vacuum and most if not all of what we've said/thought has been said/thought before then your right.  But you're copy and pasting.  The Matrix draws heavily on Biblical myth, O'Brother Where Art Thou is almost word for word copied from from the Oddessy.  There is a world of difference between that and you copy and pasting pretty much intact articles, without a single bit of thought from yourself.  No commentary, no imput, hell nary an opinion. 
  • sheltercrow said on Jun 04, 2008....
    Back from my nap. My comment on any article I post would provide little to the original authors intent except to demean the work they have done to construct same. Occasionally I will reply to a comment on the post.

    In a venue such as ours where, at most, 30 people actually view an article it does not harm an authors revenue stream or standing in the profession. I believe it is an honor to be mentioned at all. I personally do not subscribe to any ad-sense accounts and make nothing from a posting. On the other hand a post of something other that lds and screen doors does a little bit to enrich the mixture of material available on this site.
     
    I disagree with your and Mr. zayda's assessment.
  • hotaka said on Jun 04, 2008....
    I found most of my original thoughts don't get much attention anyway. It's like I am boring or something. Go figure. I like sharing something interesting I read but since it is usually in a book cut and paste is not an option. I have to go for typing the quotations myself. Well, I don't read enough copied posts for it to bother me much and most people I read mostly express their own views or tell their own stories. Maybe I just wade in different waters. But I don't mind being introduced to a link in a blog because if I don't really care I won't click it anyway.
  • GrapeKoolaid said on Jun 04, 2008....
    Damn digital parrots....

    All I have to say on this matter is, "Caw!" 

    And yes, a link will suffice, thank you.  If I find it of interest, I'll click on it and read the article.  If you copy and paste, chances are, I'll give it a perfunctory glance, that's about it. 
  • hotaka said on Jun 04, 2008....
    I will add that I have been enjoying the arguments above. Again I see where egos are getting in the way of accepting responsibilty and insults take precidence over taking an adult stance on the matter. But that is part of the human drama of SC. 
  • SeanRenaud said on Jun 04, 2008....
    It is, and I'm the last person to claim to be above it all.  But the Crows are essentially arguing that giving out burned CD's isn't is wrong if you only do it to a few people who probably would never have heard so and so 's work anyway. 
     
    I'm saying that the purpose of blogging is supposed to be show who you are, and what you think, not to copy and past the ideas of others.
  • hotaka said on Jun 04, 2008....
    Yes, I realize that I failed to comment on the main point of this post. While I believe people who want to cut and paste may do so freely as long as proper credit is given, I also agree that blogging is a good way to express your opinion and share ideas of your own with others. The source of those ideas may be referenced and quoted but ultimately it is good to read how those sources affected your way of thinking and your views. It's a bit like going to a party and chatting with people while some people bring a newspaper clipping or book and start reading instead of speaking from their own mind. A short quotation with a reference is often enough.

    I realize that most of the blogs I read are people's stories and observations and not copied articles. As menial as the content might sometimes be I find it easy to read and easy to comment on. If I have to rifle through my books in order to type a lengthy discourse about some topic or another then casual blogging becomes more of a chore or obligation and too time consuming.

    This has turned into a good post with many interesting comments both for and against. 
  • sheltercrow said on Jun 05, 2008....
    What one must ask when posting here is, is it desirable to share any personal opinions with anyone on a blog post? Is it desirable to share any personal opinions in an open format with SN, Alien, SMB, Dfer and the rest of the nut cases here? I would hazard a guess that those four alone have driven any number of users to go elsewhere or not post/comment at all. I am guilty of the same behavior myself at times. The only difference I can discern in our methods is that I make attempts to document my mental ticks with credible sources whereas the other before mentioned nut cases do not.
  • SeanRenaud said on Jun 05, 2008....
    LoL.  I rarely agree with ALIEN, SMB or D6, but your more insane than tht three of them combined.
  • stopmediabias said on Jun 05, 2008....

    .......................sorry.......I had to stop laughing...."credible sources"...."nutcases" this guy is cracking me up.

    rarely is a strong word Sean :>

    You hit the nail on the head with this post.  There are a select number of people here on Soulcast who merely search, find, cut, past, than write one "see I told you so" sentence.  What I love is when they themselves don't read what they post and it comes back to bite them. 

     

  • sheltercrow said on Jun 05, 2008....
    SMB: Hum... your latest original thoughts?

    "Saddam had WMD's ...  Whether or not we found them..." 

    "...prevented Saddam and said son's from ever doing business with terrorists who are trying to obtain WMD's."

    "The threats of the world are not North Korea, Iran, Iraq, or Syria.  The threats are radicals inside North Korea, Iran, Iraq, or Syria..."


  • stopmediabias said on Jun 06, 2008....
    Saddam used WMD's on his own people, him and his son's are wormfood (meaning they are not going to sell terrorists anything), and radical countries are not going to stick their neck out and attack us but there is a high probability they will finance a shady group (like Al Qaeda with no address) to attack us instead, here in lies the threats.
  • curmudgeon said on Jun 06, 2008....
    I'm not afraid of hearing other people's opinions. I don't mind a bit of controversy over the things I post. It helps me go over my own thinking, and nudges me to appreciate others' perspectives.
     
    I post my ideas (whether they are all that original or not) because I want to work things out for myself. I just won't bother reading a post with fifty links to articles I can find by going to an aggregate site.
     
    I mean, seriously, what's personally edifying about copying and pasting someone else's work? You could design a computer program for that. Writing actually takes thought, feeling, time and effort.
     
    And then to haul off and say that no one's opinions are interesting...gee what does THAT say about someone who spends so much time on soulcast!
  • sheltercrow said on Jun 06, 2008....
    What "thought, feeling, time and effort" goes into "him and his son's are wormfood" there curm? Or for that matter "Saddam had WMD's ... Whether or not we found them..."?

    However misguided your efforts may be (kidding) these fragments of gibberish are simply to foolish to say to someone face-to-face hence easy to post anonymously.

    Actually there are utilities that could automate the process but I choose to read the article first. If they sound credible, have good source and are interesting (to me at least, it is my blog) I post them. I have done some personal pieces all of which I discarded because of the sheer length of time it takes to source all the subject matter. I have also not posted some really good articles because they were too time consuming to verify.

    Did you read the one about the feed bags yet?

    Another reason I post so much (with the attendant cut-and-paste) I guess, is the amount opinion passed off as fact. Posting some of these articles is quite depressing but I would rather suffer with the real facts and not delude myself with the fiction of opinion.
     
    Later.
  • stopmediabias said on Jun 06, 2008....
    The classic example of the fringe somehow thinking they are mainstream in their ideas. 
     
    And when you say "verify" how exactly did you verify some of 9/11 conspiracy jargon on your side?
  • sheltercrow said on Jun 06, 2008....
    SMB: please submit your questions in the form of a thread so that I won't have to comment to them. Here I will only refer to you in the third person. In a thread I can copy the whole thing and trash you at leisure.
  • stopmediabias said on Jun 08, 2008....

    Sean-that person in here, he goes under the name of Sheltercrow, he is a candyass afraid to answer a simple question from his own posts.

  • SeanRenaud said on Jun 08, 2008....
    It goes by several other names I suspect as well.  Gnawingdog, kickingcrow, mockingbird. 
     
    All I suspect are a single ignorant person.
  • ALIENated said on Jun 08, 2008.... 
    
I have a few original thoughts. You might want to check this out ...

http://www.soulcast.com/ALIENated/


And I blocked it long ago.
  • sheltercrow said on Jun 09, 2008....
    few original thoughts... or revisionist thoughts?

    ...discredit the popular George Bush ...John Q. Public's distaste for war, or at least the distaste for a long war.

    I recall the "popular George Bush" being so inundated with eggs and angry protesters on inauguration day he became the first president in modern history to not walk up Pennsylvania avenue.

  • sheltercrow said on Jun 09, 2008....
    I think WMD was just an excuse for going into Iraq, as John Q. does, but the difference is, I do not care. That rat's nest needed to be cleaned out before its leader was responsible for something like 9/11.

    This is a interesting fragment because I think personally think Alien didn't have a care about Saddam before 9/11. The rest is bull shit alien style.

    I do not have liberal amnesia, so I remember why we went into Iraq and why everyone was for it...

    Alien obviously does not mind being led by the nose like a cow and being lied to by his "popular President." Fair enough, I assume that is "conservative amnesia."
  • sheltercrow said on Jun 09, 2008....
    I need a copy editor... It should read...

    This is a interesting fragment because personally I think Alien didn't have a care about Saddam before 9/11. The rest is bull shit alien style.
  • sheltercrow said on Jun 09, 2008....
    As I explained to curm...

    Curm old boy sheltercrow, kickingcrow, kickingbird, brotherclaude, and gnawingdog were all started by me. Reason? Hum... sheltercrow and kickingcrow were to get past the original 5 post limit. BrotherClaude came from a wonderful picture of a tombstone I found. gnawingdog was from a personal joke that I simply ran with. I have even inherited a username called jackflash from a friend that simply abandoned it.
  • SeanRenaud said on Jun 09, 2008....
    I think anybody who didn't care about Saddam since 91 is a complete idiot.  Hell I was fucking 8 at the time and I was never part of the leave hi alone club.
  • sheltercrow said on Jun 09, 2008....
    Sean, face it, you will always be part of the ex post facto club.

    Question: did you write a story on cannibals?
  • sheltercrow said on Jun 09, 2008....
    To get you up to speed, a must read...JACK ABRAMOFF’S CONTACTS WITH WHITE HOUSE OFFICIALS.

    The Committee on Oversight and Government Reform and Mr. Abramoff's guilty plea
  • SeanRenaud said on Jun 09, 2008....

    1.  Not even close, I'm not even a conservative on 90% of issues.  Just because I think Saddam was an evil man who didn't deserve to run a country and because I think that a lot of what happens to Bush is a smear job doesn't make Bush a good President. 

    2.  Yes I did, it can be read on the Kirsten Archives or on some other site, I forget where the other place is.  You've been some interesting places Shelter.  :-)

  • sheltercrow said on Jun 09, 2008....
    Actually I was wondering why someone with the user-name [SGR] was pissed at you and found a [SMBD] reference.

    Saddam was still in power due to George senior if I remember correctly. Actually what in actuality is true is so seedy that it just seems to be a smear job.
  • SeanRenaud said on Jun 09, 2008....

    You found what where?  SMBD?

    No, that's a fact that Saddam was still lin power because of Bush 1.  It is (or was) one of the major things that people hold against Bush 2 is that supposedly his father knew that over throwing Saddam would lead to the fiasco we're in now and he didn't want to bother with it so he let him go. 

  • sheltercrow said on Jun 09, 2008....
    Saddam would have eventually lost his teeth like Muammar Abu Minyar al-Gaddafi.

    The whole Iraq thing was a Bush nut-case thing. Bush, to date, has been a failure when not in politics. His only utility to the corporate world, his world, is as a front man. Where do you think George will go when he leaves office? My guess is he will eventually settle down and work for his old man and Bush senior connected people. He will be an Saudi shill, or some such animal, like his father or some variation of same. That last two visits he made to the middle East were more job interviews than state visits.
  • tbs230 said on Jun 10, 2008....
    I have original thoughts...but the good ones only come to me when I'm away from the computer. Which leaves, lately anyway, crap for SC.

    So I just don't post, you know? (You can chalk a little of that to laziness as well.)
  • thunderpussy said on Jun 11, 2008....
    I have no original thoughts.I agree that GEORGE SHRUB is a fool.That's far from original. The world feels this way!
  • curmudgeon said on Jun 11, 2008....
    "The world" has felt many many things that turned out to be dead wrong.
     
    Abraham Lincoln was also a failure in many ventures before being elected President. And given that he presided over a war that killed more Americans and wrought more destruction of this country than any other war in our history, if not for the "nobility" of the cause he'd be considered a failure as President as well.
     
    The question is what you Bush haters are going to do with all your anger once he's out of office. If Obama is elected and is criticized for anything at all my guess is you'll be screeching about right wing conspiracies again.
  • sheltercrow said on Jun 12, 2008....

    Abraham Lincoln was no more a failure than anyone else. You must be drunk to think Bush is in the same league as Lincoln. The republican party of today is linked to Lincoln in name only. He would puke if he saw what has happened to the Grand Ole Party.

    When Bush leaves office? People don't hate Bush they hate what he has done. There is a distinction.

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