• cindylu said on May 31, 2008....

  First ,I did not mean to copy it all. I tried to just copy the words, but the border kept getting into it too.  In case, you didn't want me to copy the whole thing.

• cindylu said on May 31, 2008....

  This is what I think. People are wrong to think that God backs any nations decision to go to war unjustly. That is my opinion.

  Way back during the 6 day war, they were wrong to go in and take land that was no longer theirs.  They were given land to live on, that should have been enough.

  God never backed Israel when it was wrong. All through the Bible, when Israel did wrong, they suffered the consequences of it. There was a better way, but Israel didn't take the better way, they chose war instead.

  They could have sat down with honest intentions, and conceded what was needed in the name of peace. The Bible says to much is given, much is required, and Israel needed to take the high road, and worked with the Palestinians in the name of peace.

  Had they done that, I think there would be peace by now.  Instead, all there is war. I don't know if they are doing things now for defensive reasons, but the situation would not have happened if they would have done right by the Palestinians.

  The result, is no peace. I think they believe they are entitled to all of that land, because of some bibletime covenant between them and God, but all that changed when they persisted in war instead of peace.

• crybabylu said on May 31, 2008....

  hey cindy, you might as well sign on out, i doubt if he is going to chat with ya.  You used the word God too much.  Just a thought, but that would be my guess.
   But, I don't blame you for not wanting to discuss anything with alienated or SMB, because I avoid that too, every chance I get.

• crybabylu said on May 31, 2008....

  cindy---did you get your info from Mike?  He told me that they could have sat down with Palestine and worked something out by now, and perhaps lived together in harmony and shared a parliament together, afterall, they are brothers.

• papajack said on May 31, 2008....

  I don't think Israel is doing the right thing, but neither is Palestine.

• sheltercrow said on May 31, 2008....

  This country called Israel has a creation history outside the bible.
  
  The romans were the last to destroy and disperse what remained of the Jewish people some 2,000 years ago.
  
  People have lived in Palestine for it's entire history and the Arabs in particular have been there for 1,300 years. You cannot write about Israel without reference to Zionism.
  
  Zionism is an international political movement that originally supported the reestablishment of a homeland for the Jewish People in Palestine and continues primarily as support for the modern state of Israel.
  
  Although its origins are earlier, the movement was formally established by the Austro-Hungarian journalist Theodor Herzl in the late 19th century. The movement was eventually successful in establishing Israel in 1948, as the world's first and only modern Jewish State. Described as a "diaspora nationalism," its proponents regard it as a national liberation movement whose aim is the self-determination of the Jewish people.
  
  While Zionism is based in part upon religious tradition linking the Jewish people to the Land of Israel, where the concept of Jewish nationhood is thought to have first evolved somewhere between 1200 BCE and the late Second Temple era (i.e. up to 70 CE), the modern movement was mainly secular, beginning largely as a response by European Jewry to antisemitism across Europe. It constituted a branch of the broader phenomenon of modern nationalism. At first one of several Jewish political movements offering alternative responses to the position of Jews in Europe, Zionism gradually gained more support, and after the Holocaust became the dominant Jewish political movement.
  
  It not said much but if the Holocaust had not happened chances are that the Jews would never been allowed to displace the Arabs living in Palestine. The Israeli state was a colonizing effort that is simply not condoned in the west any more.
  
  The original deal was to provide the Jews with a homeland within Palestine and not a country made up of Palestine.
  
  I may sound like a nut but most of todays Jews in Israel are not semitic in the sense that their ancestors did not originally come from the middle east. The Ashkenazim are not semitic.
  
  In reference to the Jewish peoples of Northern Europe and particularly the Rhineland, the word Ashkenazi is often found in medieval rabbinic literature. References to Ashkenaz in Yosippon and Hasdai ibn Shaprut's letter to the king of the Khazars would date the term as far back as the tenth century, as would also Saadia Gaon's commentary on Daniel 7:8.
  
  The word Ashkenaz first appears in the genealogy in the Tanakh (Genesis 10) as a son of Gomer and grandson of Japheth. It is thought that the name originally applied to the Scythians (Ishkuz), who were called Ashkuza in Assyrian inscriptions, and lake Ascanius and the region Ascania in Anatolia derive their names from this group.
  
  Ashkenaz in later Hebrew tradition became identified with the peoples of Germany, and in particular to the area along the Rhine where the Alamanni tribe once lived (compare the French and Spanish words Allemagne and Alemania, respectively, for Germany).
  
  Ashkhenaz is also recorded as being an ancient Armenian kingdom, and Armenians speak of themselves in their literature as “the Ashkenazi nation” as putative descendants of Noah’s grandson Ashkenaz. Jewish literature, too, sometimes equates the geographic place Ashkenaz with Armenia. The "Ashkuza" have also been linked to the Oghuz branch of Turks including nearly all Turkic peoples today from Turkey to Turkmenistan.
  
  The Khazars were a semi-nomadic Turkic people who dominated the Pontic steppe and the North Caucasus from the 7th to the 10th century CE. The name 'Khazar' seems to be tied to a Turkic verb form meaning "wandering".
  
  In the 7th century CE, the Khazars founded an independent Khaganate in the Northern Caucasus along the Caspian Sea. Although the Khazars were initially Tengri shamanists, many of them converted to Christianity, Islam, and other religions. During the eighth or ninth century the state religion became Judaism. At their height, the Khazar khaganate and its tributaries controlled much of what is today southern Russia, western Kazakhstan, eastern Ukraine, Azerbaijan, large portions of the Caucasus (including Circassia, Dagestan, Chechnya, and parts of Georgia), and the Crimea.
  
  Between 965 and 969, their sovereignty was broken by Sviatoslav I of Kiev, and they became a subject people of Kievan Rus'. Gradually displaced by the Rus, the Kipchaks, and later the conquering Mongol Golden Horde, the Khazars largely disappeared as a culturally-distinct people.
  
  In an essay on Sephardi Jewry, Daniel Elazar at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs summarized the demographic history of Ashkenazi Jews in the last thousand years, noting that at the end of the 11th century, 97% of world Jewry was Sephardic and 3% Ashkenazi; in the mid-17th century, "Sephardim still outnumbered Ashkenazim three to two", but by the end of the 18th century, "Ashkenazim outnumbered Sephardim three to two, the result of improved living conditions in Christian Europe versus the Ottoman Muslim world." By 1931, Ashkenazi Jews accounted for nearly 92% of world Jewry.
  
  Of the estimated 8.8 million Jews living in Europe at the beginning of World War II, the majority of whom were Ashkenazi, about 6 million — more than two-thirds — were systematically slaughtered in the Holocaust. These included 3 million of 3.3 million Polish Jews (91%); 900,000 of 1.1 million in Ukraine (82%); and 50–90% of the Jews of other Slavic nations, Germany, France, Hungary, and the Baltic states. Sephardi communities suffered similar depletions in a few countries, including Greece, the Netherlands and the former Yugoslavia. Many of the surviving Ashkenazi Jews emigrated to countries such as Israel, Australia, and the United States after the war.
  
  Today, Ashkenazi Jews constitute the largest group among Jews, but probably about a half of Israeli Jews (see Demographics of Israel). However, they have played a prominent role in the economy, media, and politics of Israel since its founding. Tensions have sometimes arisen between the traditional Jews of the Middle East (the Sephardim and Mizrahim) and the mostly European Ashkenazim who founded Israel. Later migrants hailing from the various non-Ashkenazi groups sometimes claim that they are discriminated against in terms of education, jobs/income, housing and in other areas.

• Lucytorial said on May 31, 2008....

  Thats a huge read, what strikes me most about the whole problem is that it seems a battle of who is really the most indigenous group! laying claim to an area that really cannot be claimed.. thats just mho... I'll have to read more though on the history, it was always my understanding that it was historically based on religion, seems I'm partly wrong there.

• sheltercrow said on May 31, 2008....

  Sorry if I took so long. I was fooling around with other stuff and just didn't notice.
  
  Its is a rather difficult picture to paint. A denial by some Jews of their Ashkenazim roots coupled with todays Zionist ideology.
  
  The whole basis behind the homeland thing is they they deserve it because they came from there which of course the Ashkenazim did not with the modern Zionist claiming they did.

• Lucytorial said on May 31, 2008....

  I'm still a little confused, the basis is that historically they were the first, however it seems to have turned into a war of state and religion, we're talking two different sets of origins here aren't we? if so its not being guided by the wisdoms of their own teachings no?
  
  
  

• Lucytorial said on May 31, 2008....

  Okay, tell me if I'm on the right track to understanding some of this, I found THIS article and then this statement below:
  
  There is something wrong with our increasingly global society if the nation created by the children of the Holocaust, the greatest human catastrophe of the 20th century, is now best known for its ruthless military prowess. As Avraham Burg, the former Knesset member and speaker, famously noted in 2003, "[t]he Jewish people did not survive for two millennia in order to pioneer new weaponry, computer security programs or anti-missile systems. We were supposed to be a light onto the nations. In this we have failed."
  

• papajack said on May 31, 2008....

  In Bible times, that land was occupied by Israel.  That all changed centuries ago.  It changed when Britian gained rule of the area, and they let the Jewish people come back to the land virtually because they had no other place to go as a people.

  The problem seems to have occurred during the 6 day war, in the 60's, if I'm correct.1967 or around there, my memory isn't like it used to be. It is thought that they had a sense of "entitlement" because of the old covenant between God and Abraham, but people dispute if that should be honored given the history of that region, being occupied by others.

  My brother in law, Mike which was mentioned above, says they were visitors now in the land and should have learned how to get along with the people who had settled in that land before them.

• papajack said on May 31, 2008....

  btw, I don't have any problem whatsoever with smb and alien.  My wife does.  She thinks they are like how she thinks of other conservatives.

  She thinks they only stand up for the issues of the Conservative party ( republicans )  She thinks if the Republicans changed their policies tomorrow, all other Conservatives would follow them like sheep.

• cotteralladams3 said on May 31, 2008....

  I see nothing wrong with Israel taking a harsh stance against militants.  I worry about the occupation in the West Bank and the collective punishment imposed on Palestinians but there is nothing wrong with a country taking a stance against militancy.  It is the right of any country to practice self-defense and with extremists, sometimes aggressive defensive action is necessary.  This is one of those situations.  Sometimes, soldiers do what they have to do.  Israel has a right to exist and right to its own borders and security.

• papajack said on May 31, 2008....

  I am very conservative, and she is very liberal, if that tells you anything. The only thing we agree on is Israel.

• cotteralladams3 said on May 31, 2008....

  Also, it is dangerous to advocate political negotiations with terrorists.  The Israeli government has recently made gestures towards Abba, chairman of the P.L.O.  Extremists cannot be part of the solution and Palestinians must abandon the right of return into Israel.  This is where Jimmy Carter is dead wrong.  Even Bill Clinton, who was sympathetic to the cause of Palestinian self-determination, opposed dealings with extremists and insisted that Arafat was not an honest and moderate negotiator for the Palestinians.

• sheltercrow said on May 31, 2008....

  Sephardim and Ashkenazim are two peoples that share the same religion. No doubt they have intermarried over the centuries. Sephardim are semitic and the Ashkenazim appear to be mostly non-semitic late comers, as in converts, that eventually joined with the Sephardim from religious ties. Sephardim and Ashkenazim have become what are the Jews of today.
  
  And they don't seem to get along very well. The Sephardim were the original Jews of Palestine that got along with the Arabs and both them and the Arabs were swamped by the huge influx of Zionist Ashkenazim Jews who literally wanted to run the show and create a Zionist state.

• papajack said on May 31, 2008....

  The concessions should have been made before Hamas came into the picture. The Palestinians were not terrorists to begin with, and not sure if they have been enfluenced by Hamas or overtaken by them.

• sheltercrow said on May 31, 2008....

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine has a pretty good take on Palestine.

• Lucytorial said on May 31, 2008....

  Yeh well now I am lost, thanks guys! 

• cindylu said on May 31, 2008....

  Everything I had to say has already been said, so I can't think of anything else to offer at this time. I edited the above, opening the discussion to anyone who can be civil.

• sheltercrow said on May 31, 2008....

  Also, it is dangerous to advocate political negotiations with terrorists.
  
  The Jewish state was born of terrorist acts.
  
  The Israeli government has recently made gestures towards Abba, chairman of the P.L.O.
  
  What Israel does and what Israel says are quite different. Israel has intentionally placed conditions on the Palestinians for years to create their extinction as a nation.
  
  Extremists cannot be part of the solution and Palestinians must abandon the right of return into Israel.
  
  How extreme can you get? The Israelis have literally stolen the entire viable land base of the Palestinians on the west bank.
  
  This is where Jimmy Carter is dead wrong.
  
  Jimmy Carter is dead right. Israel is the new South Africa.
  
  Even Bill Clinton, who was sympathetic to the cause of Palestinian self-determination, opposed dealings with extremists and insisted that Arafat was not an honest and moderate negotiator for the Palestinians.
  
  And this is just your speculation. Do you have any source for this?

• crybabylu said on May 31, 2008....

  Hey I got something to say about that!  Don't start trashing my honey bunny, Bill, he was a good president, and he did not think of that about Arafat.

• crybabylu said on May 31, 2008....

  I will be back, if he is going to be dragged into this, I am looking stuff up.

• crybabylu said on May 31, 2008....

  Under President Clinton's leadership, almost 6 million new jobs were created in the 1st 2 yrs of his Administration -- an average of 250,000 new jobs every month.
  

  In 1994, the economy had the lowest combination of unemployment and inflation in 25 years.
  

  As part of the 1993 Economic plan, President Clinton cut taxes on 15 million low-income families and made tax cuts available to 90 percent of small businesses, while raising taxes on just 1.2 percent of the wealthiest taxpayers.
  

  President Clinton signed into law the largest deficit reduction plan in history,  resulting in over $600 billion in deficit reduction.The deficit was going down for 3 years in a row for the first time since Harry Truman was president.
  

• sheltercrow said on May 31, 2008....

  Look, let Israel do it's thing but let it do it without the United States tax payers picking up the tab. Your argument is all bullshit. Israel exists because of the United States and nothing more. Israels right to exist is contingent on Uncle Sam's charity.
   
  Did the U.S. tax payers vote to...
   
  Fund the illegal Israeli occupation of the west bank? No.
   
  Fund the illegal settlements on the west bank? No.
   
  Fund the "collective punishment imposed on Palestinians?" No.
   
  It's time to cast this burden off and let Israel exist, borders and security, on it's own two cents. What has always galled me is the arrogance some have trying to explain to the U.S. tax payers what rights Israel has to the U.S. tax payers money.

• crybabylu said on May 31, 2008....

  http://www.perkel.com/politics/clinton/accomp.htm <<<<<<<my post above

• cotteralladams3 said on May 31, 2008....

  "The Palestinians were not terrorists to begin with."  This is true and not-so-true historically.  Militancy was born in Palestine, especially refugee camps.  King Hussein of Jordan had to act against a mini-terrorist state created by fedayeens against Israel.  Most Palestinians are not supportive of extremism but to claim that there has never been action against Israel by extremists is historically inaccurate and naive.  Palestinian aggression has held up the peace process for decades and has helped to create the Israeli military policy people always criticize.

• crybabylu said on May 31, 2008....

  shelter-what are we going to do about the aid we give to everyone in that region?  Not just Israel.

• cotteralladams3 said on May 31, 2008....

  "MY LIFE" by Bill Clinton, his biography.  Also read the biography of Yitzhak Rabin by Leah Rabin, his wife.
  
  
  

• crybabylu said on May 31, 2008....

  Oh oh, it is almost 10PM here, and I have a sermon to prepare for tomorrow, Ironically, it is called; "The Search For Peace".  Gotta work on that and my song, "Love Can Build A Bridge"

  C-Ya all later.....Peace to you....love, dee.

• sheltercrow said on May 31, 2008....

  The King David Hotel bombing (July 22, 1946) was a bomb attack against the British Mandate government of Palestine and its armed forces by members of the Irgun, a militant Zionist organization, which was led at the time by Menachem Begin, a future Prime Minister of Israel.
  
  Members of the Irgun, commanded by Yosef Avni and Yisrael Levi  and dressed as Arabs and as the Hotel's distinctive Sudanese waiters, planted a bomb in the basement of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, part of which was being used as the base for the Mandate Secretariat, the British military headquarters and a branch of the police Criminal Investigation Division. The ensuing explosion caused the collapse of the south-western corner of the southern wing of the hotel. 91 people were killed, most of them staff of the secretariat and the hotel: 28 British, 41 Arab, 17 Jewish, and 5 others. Around 45 people were injured. Some of the deaths and injuries occurred in the road outside the hotel and in adjacent buildings.
  
  The attack on the hotel was the deadliest attack against the British in the history of the Mandate and is often credited as being a major factor in the British decision to relinquish the Mandate.

• Trinov said on Jun 01, 2008....

  HI, as I read the comments, I began to realize how pathetically ignorant most people are of history, and Israeli history is not the exception.
  
  I haven't the time, I realize to answer every bit of innocent ignorance or practiced hate, but I'll say one thing. All Jews have been proven to be of the same genetic stock by recent DNA testing. My husband is a Sephardic Jew and I am mixed oriental and Askenzi. We have the same faces and body builds, Sephardic or Askenazi, for we are all the Children of Avraham, Isaac and Jacob. (There were still extant books of Avraham in Asia, written before he was called by the Creator, when he was a known philosopher. There are many things known in Asia, of which the West has no inkling, including the earlist Christians if you would dare to find out, for Asian civilization goes way back.).
  
  The Sephardic Jews lived under the Arabs for centuries, and it was not easy for them also. For there were periods of murder and pogroms throughout that time. Christians were not given many civil rights either under Arab rule. The Egpytians, at one time, would not permit Christians from leaving their homes on Fridays, the Muslim holy day. Any non Muslim with a bit of green on their clothing was lynched. So the beautiful world of supposed Muslim Jewish relations only existed in small periods of time, such as in Cordoba,(until it was destroyed by the Christians in 1066)the genereral trend was of Arab superiority and persecution of minorities, who had to sometimes wear special clothing, as Jews had to in most of the countries of Europe at some times.
  
  As for talking together and coming to agreements, obviously you haven't followed the peace negotiations over the decades.The world is not such a simple place that teenagers can solve all the problems with a bit of talk and a smile.
  
  And the land of Israel is the land of the Jews, now and forever, if you like it or not. The Arabs have 22 states, with a landmass that is hundreds of times greater than Israel. There were no Arabs here at all until the 700's , and they never turned the barren 90% of the land into farms and cities. Every inch of soil here had been cultivated in the second Temple period. The Romans destroyed much of Isreal, Judea it as called then, but there were cities surviving on the Golan until an earthquake in the 700s, and some Second Temple or earlier cities and villages remained until this day, ie Tzfat and Haifa (originally Cifa -a type of rock --and noted as Jewish city in the Second Temple period), and Pekein etc, and there were Jewish communities in Gaza,etc.
  
  The Arabs want Spain back, they want eastern Europe back. They don't just want Israel but they want the world to be Islamic. That is their philosophy, even if most Arabs just want to survive in their own areas.
  
  

• bloc said on Jun 01, 2008....

  "Palestinian aggression has held up the peace process for decades"
  
  
  It's this sort of one-sided ideology that make it pointless to talk  about this issue. The idea that Israel was just minding it's business being good citizens and neighbors, and those damn palestinians kept attacking, so now israel has illegal settlements. LOL, seriously, until people can talk about the wrongs of both sides equally no progress will be made. 

• bloc said on Jun 01, 2008....

  "The Arabs want Spain back, they want eastern Europe back. They don't just want Israel but they want the world to be Islamic."
  
  
  Again, this is such a gross generalization that is so one-sided as to be laughable. To follow up, the black people like hip-hop, smoke weed, and are in gangs. 

• cindylu said on Jun 01, 2008....

  Israeli occupation force fires into crowd of 3,000 Hamas protesters at Gaza crossing:
  
  "Israel occupation forces troops used gunfire and tear gas on Friday to keep more than 3,000 Hamas supporters from approaching one of the Gaza Strip's main crossings with Israel, wounding at least six Palestinians, witnesses said.
  http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/988735.html"

  just thought that needed to be repeated about now.

• crybabylu said on Jun 01, 2008....

  I think there are good points on this post on both sides.  good discussion going there, cindylu,

  What do you think?

• sheltercrow said on Jun 01, 2008....

  I have always marveled at the way a debate works. One technique, I take it, is to neutralize your weak points by accusing your opposition of them. To be honest this should read...
  
  "The Jews were not terrorists to begin with." This is true and not-so-true historically. Militancy was born in Palestine, especially in the Jewish Kibitz. Jews had to act against a revolt of Arabs created by armed Zionists settlers. Most Jews are not supportive of extremism but to claim that there has never been actions against Arabs by extremists is historically inaccurate and naive. Jewish aggression has held up the peace process for decades and has helped to create the Arab jihad policy people always criticize.

• sheltercrow said on Jun 01, 2008....

  I see nothing wrong with Israel [place whatever you like here].  I worry about the [place whatever you like here] but there is nothing wrong with a country [place whatever you like here].  It is the right of any country to [place whatever you like here].  This is one of those situations.  Sometimes, [place whatever you like here].  Israel has a right to [place whatever you like here].

• sheltercrow said on Jun 01, 2008....

  Also, it is dangerous to [place whatever you like here].  The Israeli government has recently [place whatever you like here].  [place whatever you like here] cannot be part of the solution and [place whatever you like here].  This is where [place whatever you like here] is dead wrong.  Even [place whatever you like here], who was [place whatever you like here], opposed [place whatever you like here] and insisted that [place whatever you like here] for the [place whatever you like here].

• sheltercrow said on Jun 01, 2008....

  To be honest this should read...
   
  Also, it is dangerous to ignore political negotiations with extremists. The Palestinian Authority has recently made gestures towards the extremist Israeli Prime Minister. Extremists must be part of the solution but Israelis must also be allowed to give the right of return to Palestinians. This is where Jimmy Carter is useful. Even Bill Clinton, who was sympathetic to the cause of Israeli extremists, accepted dealings with the Palestinian Authority and insisted that Arafat was an honest and moderate negotiator for the Palestinians.

• sheltercrow said on Jun 01, 2008....

  Inside Israel's secret prison by Aviv Lavie
  
  Detainees are blindfolded and kept in blackened cells, never told where they are, brutally interrogated and allowed no visitors of any kind. Dubbed 'the Israeli Guantanamo,' it's no wonder facility 1391 officially does not exist.
  
  Rights groups demand opening of Facility 1391 by Moshe Reinfeld

• sheltercrow said on Jun 01, 2008....

  

  Pro-Genocide graffiti left by Jewish settlers on the door of a Palestinian courtyard

  

  Graffitti left overnight by Jewish settlers on a Palestinian home in Hebron.

  

  Relief workers extract the corpses of 37 children from a civilian bomb shelter which was targeted by Israel this morning in Qana. According to this morning's reports, more than 65 civilians were killed.

  

  Amid mounting evidence that Israel is using banned chemical and other weapons against the civilian population of Lebanon, including cluster bombs - a definitive indiscriminate weapon specifically designed to maximize civilian deaths - as well as white phosphorus, the UN reports that indiscriminate Israeli bombing has now forced three quarters of a million people from their homes.

• sheltercrow said on Jun 01, 2008....

  
   
  A United Nations employee weeps uncontrollably outside the UN PeaceKeeping Compound in Qana, Lebanon, April 18, 1996.
  
  After occupying Lebanon for 14 years, Israeli Occupation Forces under the command of Shimon Peres launched "Operation Grapes of Wrath," forcing about half a million Lebanese from their homes in Southern Lebanon. The Operation was launched as a retaliation for the killing of one Israeli soldier, who was shot while illegally planting landmines in southern Lebanon.
   
  
   
  A child hurls stones at an advancing Israeli bulldozer in the Balata Refugee Camp.
   
  
   
  The charred remains of an incinerated Palestinian boy lays amidst his toys in the ruins of a home.
   
  
   
  While Israelis bask on the beaches in Tel Aviv, cleanup crews from across the world are rushing to Lebanon, where two days of calculated Israeli attacks on the Jiyyeh power station dumped 30,000 - 50,000 TONS of heavy crude oil onto the Lebanese coastline.

• sheltercrow said on Jun 01, 2008....

  Jewish settler vandalism in the Hebron Old City

  

  Nets have been placed above the street to catch garbage falling from Jewish settler apartments directly overhead. 

  

  Jewish settler graffiti on a Palestinian home

  

  'Death to the Arabs' reads this piece of settler graffiti on an abandoned Palestinian shopfront in Hebron, West Bank

  

  Jewish Settler Trash in Hebron

   

• crybabylu said on Jun 01, 2008....

  Did you see Trinov's goodbye post?  I think it says something about other responsibilities, etc.  It was written just a few hours ago.

• sheltercrow said on Jun 02, 2008....

  No. Trinov's lack of concern for all things not Jewish is too upsetting for me. I can't stand people who lie so blatantly. I refuse to reply to people like Trinov.
  
  I went to another site that didn't have the delete/block function like soulcast and was shocked at the amount of sheer Zionist troll junk. I had a couple threads on Palestine and Israel and a couple Zionists, one a discussion leader, bombarded the threads with hundreds of comments that did not stand up to close examination after I fact checked them.
  
  Should the U.S. End Aid to Israel? is one of them and there is still a Zionist troll "cyclone ranger" commenting till 5/15 long after I simple abandoned it from exhaustion.
  
  448 comments and 5,363 views so far.
  
  Voices of the Palestinians. got 106 comments and 1,630 views till I gave up. Same two troll "cyclone ranger" and "hadit".
  
  My last posting series there...
  
  Me: This site allows shit stains like Cyclone Ranger and hadit to poison threads to their hearts desire with their endlessly repeated unsourced bullshit. And to encourage a quire of unsourced shit stains to boot. On any other site they would be blocked and deleted, here they are allowed to post until a thread is dead. It's a shame. It's a double shame with hadit because he's a Discussion Leader.
  
  20 pages, 380 replies and 3,627 views. And what is there to show for it? An endless meatball garbage fest led by none other than Cyclone Ranger and hadit.
  
  I cannot imagine anyone else being so completely devoid of personal ethics.
  
  [then a comment from the very same shit stain that "poison threads to their hearts desire with their endlessly repeated unsourced bullshit."]
  
  Cyclone Ranger: Pointing out the idiocy and factual inaccuracy of your stupid anti-Jewish, anti-Israel posts is not 'unethical.'
  
  And for the record, there is no requirement that every statement one makes has to be sourced to some web page.
  
  [then a comment from the other shit, hadit (a discussion leader no less), stain that "poison threads to their hearts desire with their endlessly repeated unsourced bullshit."]
  
  hadit: Oh, quite whining and grow up. If you don't like something I do, report me. I've reported you for specific violations, you can do the same. For your info, I'm on several sites, and I've never been blocked or deleted, so you're wrong again.
  
  Me: Shi* *tain was a response to the myriad use of "antisemite" and "dumbass" by my friend Cyclone Ranger in his comments to me and others who take the time, out of respect, to source our material. Something he rarely does himself.
  
  I personally would term a real "antisemite" a Shi* *tain, not the bogus scare crap CR does. Using "antisemite" so often in an obviously inappropriate way has actually made the term a sign of a "Jew with no rational excuse" and now is a sign of derision for semite's themselves.
  
  In what universe is the obvious usage of "antisemite" for objective adverse opinions not an insult?
  
  I have noticed that semites here can call anyone anything and get away with it. They don't have to provide any source material. They are allowed to call all users that disagree with them "antisemitic" which is almost always an insult in the context it is used.
  
  Why is that? Are you afraid to admonish someone for inappropriately calling someone an "antisemite"? Are you afraid to be called an "antisemite" if you admonish a semite?
  
  CR has called someone "antisemite" 23 times since 02-23-2007.
  
  "antisemitic" 41 times since 09-26-2006.
  
  "dumbass" 13 times since 03-15-2008.
  
  Virtually all because he disagrees with someone's opinion.
  
  This use of an obvious insult is OK? I will take your non-concern with this issue as tacit approval that the TOS do not apply to users insulting others as long as it is someone being called an "antisemite" for any reason at all.
  
  Cyclone Ranger: Again, if you don't like being referred to as an 'antisemite,' don't say things like "Kiss my goy ass."
  
  Me: Question answered in the positive passive.
  
  fat mike: hes probably been warned-just because the staff doesnt trumpet it to everyone doesnt mean they dont do it-manu deliberately has lib staff warn lib posters and conservative staff warn conservative posters which i think is good policy...SC this place isnt that unfair...maybe i havent been warned because noone knows what i am...
  
  [this next user, fat mike is a friend I call "Hellspawn postwhore" as a term of endearment. It's listed under his user name. I had gotten a warning for it earlier and had it rescinded. The administrator "Monster" is a 23 year old waste-of-space that does not do his job well.]
  
  Me: Hellspawn postwhore aka fat mike:
  
  Whatever the case may be I lose interest very quickly when a site so blatantly allow racism to be exhibited. To also have a discussion leader engage in and encourage it is an indication of endorsement. On the nut-and-bolts level of organization and ideological construction Zionism and neo-Nazism are almost interchangeable. Both are, in their effect on the-man-in-the-street, racist.
  
  Whether you agree or not, calling someone an "antisemite" for any reason other than racism is a form of racism itself. I don't buy into the "it's because I'm black" or "it's because I'm white" for the same reason. I buy into "stand up and be a man by telling the truth where ever it may lead."
  
  I reject nationalism for a similar reasons. Nations didn't make man, man made nations.
  
  I will not accept an argument that inherently conditions understanding on race alone. Race has always been used to stigmatize ones opposition. It has been used by all ideologies of hatred.
  
  Calling someone an "antisemite" for disagreement on details is racist if the other party is uninformed or in political opposition. At it's extreme calling someone an "antisemite" in place of "stupid" is still racist. Using "antisemite" in stead of racist, where racism actually occurs is, in itself, racist because it assumes your 'race' is somehow worth of special attention where actually 'racism' is the real concern. When it places your 'race' more worthy of concern than another, by definition, that characterization of any 'worth' by 'race' is racism.
  
  The dictionary has racism...
  
  Quote:
  
  1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
  2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
  3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
  
  "It is said the first causality in any War is the truth." and "War is merely a continuation of politics." -Clausewitz
  
  I'm not sure if there is any way to reconcile profit with truth. The phrase "money talks and bull shit walks" really means "money talks and 'everything else' walks." A challenge for all social web sites.
  
  And of course, last but not least, free speech constraints should not encourage racist terms by simply remaining silent.
  
  Cyclone Ranger and hadit have "won" as they term it. They have been allowed to practice their "accepted" form of racism. They call me "antisemite" for a political disagreement, I appropriately call them "shit stain" for essentially being racist. I get a nice warning and they keep using their "accepted" racist terminology.
  
  The more things seem to change the more they stay the same.
  
  I surrender to the power of pretense.
  
  Later.
  
  Monster: You have received your warning for this [Hellspawn postwhore].
  
  Warning rescinded. Nevermind.
  
  If you've lost interest, feel free to go away.
  
  [Monster, the 23 year old waste-of-space administrator, call himself "Mr. Incredible"]
  
  Me: Monster aka Mr. Incredible:
  
  Per our conversation "Warning rescinded."
  
  Except of course "If you've lost interest, feel free to go away."
  
  The phrase "money talks and 'everything else' walks." A challenge for DiscussAnything.com?
  
  As is said by captain Jean-Luc Picard "make it so number one." lol.
  
  I leave you with your Borg...
  
  Later.
  
  [Mr. Incredible can't resist being a waste-of-space and...]
  
  Monster: The exit is.
  
  Resistance is futile.
  
  [I have never been back there. But it did leave in me a distaste for Zionist trolls like the above.]

• crybabylu said on Jun 02, 2008....

  that is a very interesting exchange going on there, sheltercrow. i can see that after awhile it might get tedius though, to say the least.

• papajack said on Jun 02, 2008....

  I'd say it is too.

• sheltercrow said on Jun 02, 2008....

  It got so weird that a "Super Mod" started a thread call Sheltercrow's questions to allow him and his fellow nut cases take a whack at me.
  
  [Betty is a "super mod" (moderator)]
  
  me: With respect I asked this question of Betty:
  
  

  Quote:

  Why on earth do you allow a discussion leader to bully the users on this site in the first place?
  
  He is biased! ...and persists in bullying people to his position!
  
  If one does not accept his biased position on Israel he persists till he subtly alienates all the commenter's!
  
  Why on earth do you allow this?

  
  
  Betty: That's a question for someone else. That's also the kind that we prefer to keep in PM's.
  
  Presently I have no problem with how the DL's are handling their duties; I think they are doing fine, but I don't do the hiring or firing here.
  
  You're going to have to PM someone higher than me if you want a real response to that.
  
  me: The third comment and the first comment from hadit
  
  Originally Posted by sheltercrow
  
  

  Quote:

  Really Farnsworth, it's rather hard to read an opinion from someone with such a ridiculous moniker.
  
  I suppose you were one of the people that did the thorough refuting?
  
  Another zionist avenger?
  
  There is a couple things I have noticed with zionist avengers. All of their sources are other zionist avengers, and can be ignored, or their source is their own opinion which can be ignored.

  note: Farnsworth has a swastika in his moniker. That is a bit offensive to start with.
  
  response by hadit
  
  

  Quote:

  Which is how anti-Jewists get through life, by simply ignoring any sources which whom they disagree.

  That my friend is where it started... if these two "items" are allowed in retort how am I guilty of anything?
   
  Betty: That's a job for the report post button. We'll review it like everything else we receive.
  
  Farnsworth can explain his avatar if you ask him.
   
  me:

  Quote:

  Originally Posted by Monster

  
  Debate the posts, not the posters. Otherwise, your stay here will be somewhat truncated.

  How prey tell do you debate zionist attack dogs? Does their stay here get "somewhat truncated" for calling someone a dumb-ass who disagrees with them?
  
  Question: how on earth do you monitor these boards? Someone came on to the post the other day and called a poster a name referring to a womans crotch?
   
  Monster: We moderate based on the posts that we see in the threads that we normally visit. However, we don't see every post in every thread, so we rely on the Report Post feature. In each post, underneath the user's name and avatar, is an icon that looks like a white triangle with a red outline. That's the Report Post button. If you find a post offensive or believe it to be violating the Terms of Service, report the post and the mods/admins will take a look at it and intercede where necessary.
   
  me: If I cannot call them "zionist attack dogs" how are the allowed to call me anti-semitic?
   
  me: Your man hadit:
  
  

  Quote:

  My arguments for US aid to Israel are having an effect! That is good. Perhaps now we can talk about why we're singling out Israel for such high-minded condemnation. Is it really because of their behavior or is it something a little more common, a little dirtier? Could it be because they are JOOOOOS? Now, there are good, adult reasons why US aid to Israel is good and/or less than ideal. I believe that the positive reasons outweigh the negative.

  "Is it really because of their behavior or is it something a little more common, a little dirtier? Could it be because they are JOOOOOS?"
  
  Am I to understand that a debate is possible when the "Discussion Leader" writes that?
   
  Betty: Yes.
   
  me: "Is it really because of their behavior or is it something a little more common, a little dirtier? Could it be because they are not JOOOOOS?"
  
  Is also acceptable?
   
  Betty: As acceptable as you calling him a racist, yes. We all have opinions.
   
  Evil Elmo: I could go for some apfel j00s
   
  me: You mean hadit can be called a dirty Jew? That is rather offensive don't you think?
   
  Betty:

  Quote:

  Originally Posted by sheltercrow

  Would it be alright to do a post on racism that includes Jewish racism or Zionist racism? Or is that a forbidden subject because they are Jewish or Zionist?

  If you think it rates a thread, knock yourself out champ. Same rules still apply.
  Most of the other ones got locked because people couldn't keep their cool. Good luck.
   
  me: I don't believe I could call someone a dirty Jew. No matter how angry I got. It's to loathsome.
   
  Betty: Best way to find out is to give it a try and see what happens.
   
  me: Even when a Jew is offensive I cannot see a reason to call them offensive names. A racist is a racist but a cigar is a smoke.
   
  me:

  Would this be considered other than satirical?
  
  

  Quote:

  We the Zionists of the Zionist State, in order to form a more perfect Zionist union, establish injustice, insure domestic ignorance, provide for the Zionist defense, promote general Zionism, and secure the blessings of Zionism to ourselves and our Zionist posterity, do ordain and establish this Zionist Constitution for the State of Zionism.

   

  [next a series of one lines by all the descussion leaders and mods (average age 25)]

  me: Respectfully, an inquiry into the nature of DA disambiguation:
  
  To become a mod or a lesser form thereof all a poster has to do is make a few thousand cute, cryptic, senseless inbred remarks? And the more a user make these overused one-liners the higher they rise in the DA scale of reptilian dominance?
  
  Or is there really something else involved?

  me: On the nature of the CR meat puppet.
  
  

  Quote:

  You are a truly persistent con artist. There is no other reason for your disingenuous comments except to continue till the last commenter has become bored or worn out with your never ending con artist bull ****.
  
  I'm not sure why this site lets you get away with your meat puppet antics unless it's because you generate so many hits on their website from people who are amazed by your continued existence.

  An answer as to why this is site is called Discuss Anything.

  [no reply and the thread remains dead till this day]
  
  

• crybabylu said on Jun 02, 2008....

  interesting

• theduke said on Jun 03, 2008....

  Cindylu, where are you?

Comment on "Mom Told Me About Her Discussion on Israel"

Currently tagged	Hamas occupation Israel politics palestine (Click to add tags below)
Tag this post	(Separate tags using commas, for example: New York, dating, vegetarian)
Your comment