It seems there's been much talk about religion around here lately. Maybe it's not more than usual, but that I'm noticing it more because I'm particularly sensitive to the subject. HBC's last sermon was fantastic, though there are points I disagree with. I'm sure there are points he disagrees with, 22 years later. The one thing that got to me the most though was this comment:
"In my dreams I still hear the soulful choirs song and feel the spirit well in my chest. I have a need to be needed. I have never been whole since I left the ministry. For now I will put as much love as I can in each loaf of bread. It is a spiritual thing after all."
When you've invested years of your life into a set of ideals, when your family and friends are all heavily involved, and when all of your activities revolve around the church, it's a heartrending loss to leave. The only solace is that in leaving, you've made a choice by yourself, for yourself. You've given yourself freedom, and there is a sense of relief. The difficulty lies in the necessity of making a go of it on your own and learning to think things through in ways you never could before.
I'm feel your pain, HBC. I grew up in a fundamentalist Christian family, and that was all I knew. I'd estimate that we spent about 10 hours per week in church, with all of the activities we were involved in. In spite of the fact that my grades, test scores, and extracurriculars were such that I could have gone to any college I wanted to (really - I'm not just being dramatic about that), my parents made it clear that I was going to a Christian college and that I was going to be a missionary. I really didn't have a say, unless I wanted to rebel to the point that I would go my own way and never see them again. I wasn't ready for that, and I allowed my parents to choose my path for me. This is the single biggest regret of my life, but I have to say that I'm angrier at them than I am at myself.
My loving parents, doing what they thought was best for me, took away my right to make my own decisions. They hijacked my life and tried to make it their own. I consider it child abuse. It's like when someone sexually abuses a child - the child doesn't understand it, doesn't know exactly how wrong it is, doesn't have the power to do anything about it, and on top of that, is told that bad things will happen if he questions it or tells anyone what is being done to him. No child understands the implications of belonging to a church or believing in a religion - if that's what his parents say is right, that's what he'll believe. Children are not given the option to stay home or go to a different church. If they question their parents' beliefs, they are told that if they don't believe the same things, they'll go to hell. I still haven't heard the end of it - my family tries to talk me into going to church whenever they talk to me.
I spent two years at one of the most conservative evangelical colleges in the country. After two years of seeing more hypocrisy, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness than I could handle, I finally gathered my courage and left. I left it all 2,000 miles away and started a new life for myself. I filled volumes with the anguish of being alone in the world, of asking all of the "meaning of life" kind of questions, and of hating God and the religions that presume to speak for him. To this day I am convinced that organized religion is the farthest from truth people can get. However, I have not written off the idea of God. I won't be so arrogant as to proclaim that he does or does not exist. I just don't know, and neither does anyone else.
All I know is that there is a hole in my life where Christianity used to be. I won't go back though, having come to new realizations about God and about human beings. I'd like to strike a balance between where I was and where I am now - to embrace my spirituality without having it tied to a God or to an ideology I no longer believe in. I've gone from one extreme to the other, and now it's time to find the center.
FunctionalForm posted on Aug 11, 2006
| views: 254
Comments
-
anonymous said on Aug 16, 2006....
read "HEZBOLLAH!" IN THE NEW EDITION OF ||{1}|| -
FunctionalForm said on Aug 16, 2006....
Interesting - I especially liked the quote from the Dalai Lama at the end of that. I completely agree that spirituality is much superior to religion, and that religion is unnecessary when people can develop love, harmony, tolerance, forgiveness, etc. on their own. I also agree that the US policy toward Israel and the Middle East in general is ridiculous. Why are we still backing Israel? If the US is so hell-bent on playing "world police" like we have so many times before, why are we allowing this to happen? Innocent people are being killed every day. It's disturbing. -
HealingPink said on Aug 18, 2006....
Hi. :) I'm new here at soulcast and I was reading through various entries when I came across yours. While my situation was different in many ways, I too have felt the hole where "my religion", Christianity once was. I still have a lot of anger and disgust in my baggage. I don't want to be so angry anymore, but I have yet to find a balance. Sometimes I get physically ill in churches. I only go when absolutely necessary (which isn't often). Do you ever desire to go into a house of worship and sit quietly in the back- hidden from view? ( Catholic churches are good for going unnoticed ). Every so often I look at a building and wonder how people feel. I wonder if I will ever feel spiritual again. I appreciate your post. Its somewhat comforting to know I am not alone on the path outside the Christian door. -
FunctionalForm said on Aug 18, 2006....
Hi HP - welcome to Soulcast! It is good to know that there are others out there with similar experiences with Christianity. I too am often angry - not only at my parents, who indoctrinated me with their beliefs, but at myself for believing what they told me. I wish I'd had the strength to rebel long before I did.
I don't go to church anymore - in fact, I haven't set foot in a church in about 8 years. I got married in a park on the beach, with no mention of God whatsoever in the ceremony. I'm going to be a bridesmaid in a friend's wedding in a couple months (they're getting married in a church), so that will be an interesting experience. I'm not sure how I'll handle it, so I might just visit the place ahead of time to make sure I can deal. My friend isn't particularly religious, and she doesn't go to church, so I'm not sure why they're gettting married in one. However, that's her choice, and it's their wedding day, so I'm not going to say a word about it.
Something that has helped me is reading about other religions. I've studied Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Wicca, Paganism, and various other mythologies. After a while, they all start to sound the same. I've paid special attention to mystics, as they tend to dismiss religion and focus on God. I think the point is to take whatever truth you can find in any of them and discard the rest. Any idea that helps you to be a better person and to live peacefully with the people and world around you is a good thing. I can't get behind any particular religion though, as I find them narrow-minded and divisive.
Have you found anything that helps you? If you don't mind my asking, why do you ever go to church if it makes you feel sick?
-
lidstrom82 said on Aug 18, 2006....
Hey there Functional and Pink,
Thanks for being so upfront and honest about your Christian experiences. It's not an easy thing to admit such heartache and pain that came from sources that should have been loving and supportive (the church, parents, etc).
I posted something a little while back for former Christians, asking if God failed them. I got interesting responses. Nearly all of them said that it wasn't God that failed them, but it was the people and the churches they were a part of. Interestingly, many of them are now unsure of God's existence.
What I wonder is this: why is faith in God shaken when people do bad things? Do we expect God to step in and directly intervene to keep people from hurting us? I think it's a double standard with most of humanity: they want God to keep others from hurting them, but they themselves want the freedom to do whatever they want. In other words, it's ok for God to limit the free will of others, but I still want mine!
A God-shaped hole can't be filled by anything else but God. There are other religions out there, and each have a bit of truth to them that makes them appealing, but I think their ulterior purpose is to serve as distractions from the true God. I don't mean that Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, Scientologists, etc., are all in this conspiracy to sabotage God, but I think more often than not you have man-made religion that is based on rules or traditions or beliefs that discredit the very idea of a good, loving God. And that's when it gets dangerous.
I'd encourage you guys to see where the root of your hurt lays. Just because parents or churches hurt you, doesn't mean God hates you or loves you less or is punishing you. It is amazing that you both recognize the void that's left. Bitterness is hard to get over, but I think you guys have tons to offer to so many people in the right place. No church is perfect, but there are ones much better. And lastly, devout, strict parents who force God on us are NOT a good indicator of how God is as a Heavenly Father. Please don't hold God responsible for what human people do with their free will.
I'll pray for you both for healing to happen soon, and that any questions you have about why life worked out this way will be answered. IF I can help in any way, let me know.
-
FunctionalForm said on Aug 18, 2006....
Hi Lidstrom - thanks for commenting. I think you're absolutely right that the reason most ex-Christians leave the church is because of other people; however, I think it also has to do with realizing that there are other things out there to believe in. The one thing that bothers me the most about Christianity is its evangelical nature - the idea that Christians are responsible for "saving" the rest of the world. What makes Christians so sure that the people's own indiginous religion isn't right for them?
You said yourself that you think "more often than not you have man-made religion that is based on rules or traditions or beliefs that discredit the very idea of a good, loving God. And that's when it gets dangerous." What makes you think that Christianity isn't one of those? Frankly, I firmly believe that it is, and that's exactly why I choose not to go to any churches/temples/mosques/whatever.
It's not so much that I no longer believe that God exists; it's that I believe that no religion is broad-minded enough to even conceive of who or what God is. That's why I take bits and pieces from several faiths, and use them to attempt an explanation of what I believe. I'm not sure it really can be (or should be) explained. All I know is that Christianity is too narrow for me. Its rules and traditions tend to spark bigotry and divide all of humanity into separate compartments, and I really don't want to be a part of that.
I'm not saying that all Christians are narrow-minded bigots, because I've met some who are genuinely good people. I think people have the right and perhaps the obligation to figure out what spirituality means to them, and I don't believe that anyone has either the right or the obligation to tell others that they are wrong. There's really only one way to find out who's right, and no one's coming back from that. :-)
-
HealingPink said on Aug 18, 2006....
FF- I too have looked to other beliefs and I have found some truths in each one. You are very right about taking what feels true and discarding the rest. My husband and I got married on the beach in Aruba- no friends or family present. It was so beautiful. We were surrounded by the people who helped plan the wedding and vacationers from all over the world. For a few moments we felt unconditional love- no judgements passed, just happy wishes and smiles.
Why do I enter a church?
My father- who was not a Christian (by fundamental definition) during most of my church going time- is now a pastor. He runs a car minisrty to aid single parent families get vehicles and repairs done. He graduated with straight A's recently. Something that never would have happened in his family's eyes. I was proud of him- I knew he was so proud and excited with his accomplishment. I went into that church to support him and his graduation. I was very, very ill. I almost had to leave. It was a very evangelical service- nothing I haven't been exposed to hundreds of times, but this time it was surreal. I could see the truth. I could see the acts and the falseness. I could feel the energy being pulled and pushed. I felt like I was being suffocated. I suppose some, maybe even most, of the people really felt they were truly having these experiences, but to "outsiders" it was a show. It was repulsive. Even when I attended these services many years ago, I would find myself rolling my eyes at the shows. I can see why so many "non-christians" completely shut down. I still can't grasp why churches move in the ways they do.
I have gone to a few weddings and they have not bothered me much. I just hate the way the church seems to dictate how people are to be. I am all for support, suggestions and basic guidances, but declaring set roles doesn't work for me.
I hate to admit, but my meditation practice is poor. When I do meditate on a regular basis I fing myself more centered and more at peace. Doing Yoga has also worked well beyond the physical benefits. I look at various personal development books and websites and take what feels right. I miss the social circle I was in at the church. I was a part of the "in-crowd". I was in the music ministry. I think a big step towards what you call recovery would be for me to do music in another fashion or to be in a group of some sort. I think that I am prone to distrust so much as it is, that after the last few adventures in churches and a religion that constricted, I am hard pressed to join any groups or organizations.
Its funny to see my dad go through his own adventures in Christianity. He has left many churches and organizations. Fortunately, his poor experiences have led him to a better understanding of why I do not attend church anymore. I don't get pressured anymore.
Lid- I don't disbelieve in God. I am in a period where I am redefining God. I guess I would say I am redefining my belief system. Everything I was exposed to came from the interpretation of man- from humans. People have agendas and have had them throughout time. My distrust is in humans. I know there is a journey ahead. I just don't feel the need to walk the expected path. ;) I appreciate your comments and feedback.
-
lidstrom82 said on Aug 18, 2006....
Thanks for letting me know some more thoughts on things, guys. There is a lot of crap going on in the church.
It seems that the social and connected aspects of church appealed to you, Pink. And FF, that Christianity bothers you in that its followers take it upon themselves to save the world.
As former churchgoers, I have to say a few things to both of you.
FF, Christianity focuses on the world because God commands it in the Bible. It's not a man-made mission to "be right" and to "show others the way" out of self-importance. What it is, is demonstrating what Jesus is to everyone by one's actions, to show them a new way to be human, if you will (to borrow a song title from Switchfoot).
And Pink, the social aspect is awesome, but I think some churches will play upon people's emotions to get people to "believe" or to "be filled with the Holy Spirit" or even to "give money to God".
In the Bible, Jesus said that "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." Guys, if anyone takes the Bible seriously, then it IS the only way. No other religion can fit into that. If other religions pointed us to God in heaven, it would have said so. But Jesus refutes that. There's a difference between Jesus' great commission to have Christians go and make disciples of other nations, and overzealous Christians who prey upon emotions and guilt to get others to believe anything they're told.
I think that Christianity is the only true way because the Bible doesn't leave room for other religions to be worthy of our time. The Bible refutes false religions as well as false Christian teachers - in other words, it's nothing new. Now, if there are false religions, what are they? The Bible has stuff to say on that too. Also FF, the Bible never claims that Christians can understand God. It's clear that humans can't understand Him fully. Thus, someone can be a Christian without being arrogant, because they're simply following what God said and laid out in the Scriptures.
Yes, being a full-fledged Christian puts one at ods with the world, and it can come across as arrogant and unloving toward other religions. But like you said FF, there's only one way to find out which religion is true, and that's when we die. But when we die, it's too late to convert. And the answer is right in front of us. I know that both of you find truth in other religions, but picking and choosing truth from multiple religions is dangerous, because those religions all conflict with each other in various ways. If we look at it in a "pick and choose" or "consumer" mentality, we'll pick what makes sense to us from different areas of life. Let me tell you, a Christian who only picks and chooses what to believe out of the Bible will quickly be caught by those who listen; doing the same with more than one religion might bring about some negative attention to you guys, too, and I don't want that to cause hurt and confusion.
You might be better off sticking with one religion, in the end, for those reasons.
-
FunctionalForm said on Aug 19, 2006....
Wow - HP, that must be odd to see your father so involved in the church. I have to say that I admire him for helping out people who can't afford to get their cars fixed up - transportation is necessary for a lot of people to get to work and cart their kids around, especially if there isn't a reliable public transportation system. I hope that he's able to keep his spirituality and ministry to the poor intact even when the churches wear him down. Yeah, I said "when." It's good that he realizes that you have reasons for not wanting to go to church, and that he doesn't pester you about it. My dad pesters me every chance he gets, and often I'm not assertive enough to say more than "not gonna happen." I'd like to say so much more.
I love what you said in your last paragraph - "I know there is a journey ahead. I just don't feel the need to walk the expected path." Right on!
Lidstrom - Let's talk about the Bible. You seem to be under the impression that we all believe that the Bible is literally the word of God. Unless God physically put pen to paper and then supervised all translation efforts (which anyone who has studied the history of the Bible knows is not the case), I have to disagree. Perhaps God did inspire people to write about him. However, humans throw their own biases and rules into their writing - it's probably that pesky free will thing. Anyway, say God inspired a guy to write that God is good. The writer might expand on that to say that God is the only good God, and that people should only worship him. Other people then interpret that to mean that if you worship another God, or if you worship the same God but in a different way, you're a heathen who must be killed. Now is that really what God said?
It's like playing telephone. Someone whispers "I like cheese" to another, then that person whispers what he thought he heard to the next person, and so on. After 30 people hear the "same" message, the last person says, "Thai pike wheeze." Well, that's not exactly the same thing as "I like cheese," so it's a good thing that no one's building a religion on that.
The point is, almost every religion claims to be the only true way to God. You're perfectly within your rights to choose one, but I don't feel that I have to. So what if different religions in which I find truth conflict? The truth that I find in them is the same across all of those religions. Besides, the Bible has enough conflicting statements in it to choke a horse, and that's within the SAME religion! Not to mention that there are hundreds of denominations that claim to be Christian, and yet can't agree on anything beyond "God exists."
Yet another point I have to make is that choosing one religion is strictly a western idea. For example, if you go to Japan and talk to a few people about religion, you'll find that most of them have no problem with people being Buddhist, Shintoist, Christian, and Taoist simultaneously. I tend to agree with them.
Finally, "negative attention" from other people is hardly going to cause me "hurt and confusion." I'm plenty secure enough to believe what I want without caring what anyone else thinks. I don't think there's anything wrong with "picking and choosing" truth from different religions, so why would I be ashamed of that or even think about being "caught?" I don't hide what I believe, and I'm not trying to fit in to several different churches/temples/shrines/whatever. I'm just me, and I accept me whether anyone else does or doesn't.
I leave you with a quote from the Dalai Lama:
"We humans can live quite well without recourse to religious faith. Religion I take to be concerned with faith in the claims to salvation of one faith tradition or another. Spirituality I take to be concerned with those qualities of the human spirit - such as love and compassion, patience, tolerance, forgiveness, contentment, a sense of responsibility, a sense of harmony - which bring happiness to both self and others. There is no reason why an individual cannot develop these qualities, even to a higher degree, without recourse to any religion. This is why I sometimes say that religion is something we can perhaps do without. What we cannot do without are these basic spiritual qualities. This may seem an unusual statement, coming as it does from a religious figure. I am, however, Tibetan before I am Dalai Lama, and I am human before I am Tibetan. So while as Dalai Lama I have a special responsibility to Tibetans, and as a monk I have a special responsibility toward furthering inter-religious harmony, as a human being I have a much larger responsibility toward the whole human family - which indeed we all have."
Comment on "My life as a recovering Christian"
Related Posts:
Me-Myself&I
posted 6 days ago
| views: 59
|
It is harder to share pain than it is joy. Sometime with the help of friends and family, we endure our pains. But sometimes we have to stand alone. But if you maintain a postive outlook and endure cheerfully, we will find more company along the way.... read entire post
truthsayer
posted 1 day ago
| views: 104
|
Cosmic Cafe' 4...Truthsayer sits, alone...in the Cosmic Cafe'. Wondering. She brings her Bible to work with her every single day. She reads
http://www.soulcast.com/post/show/276474/A-Moral-Dile... read entire post
truthsayer
posted 1 day ago
| views: 73
|
Cosmic Cafe' 5:Happy Thanksgiving From Me and Abe, At The Cosmic Cafe'!
I hope we all remember why we have Thanksgiving Day off here in America! We owe this day of grace and thanksgiving to Abraham Lincoln and of course... read entire post
BBGood
posted 1 day ago
| views: 244
|
Many Americans think of Thanksgiving as a wonderful time to celebrate getting out of school for a long weekend, and eating a great dinner. Or, maybe they think it is the start of the Christmas holiday season. What is the real meaning behind Thanksgiving?... read entire post
miracles4youuq
posted 2 days ago
| views: 13
|
Infertilityinfertilepregnancytraatment for infertility... read entire post