• diabolicdame said on May 19, 2008....

  I wonder how much of a difference it really makes.. people smoke it anyway, don't they? There'll just be more potheads then I guess.. 

• SeanRenaud said on May 19, 2008....

  Prohibition is a bad idea whether it is liquor, marijuana, crack or xtacy.  You can make laws governing when it can be used.  Operating a vehicle under the influance.  Increasing the penalties for common crimes commited while under the influence is also a good idea. 
   
  Prohibtion doesn't work.  We learned in in the 1920's and despite a near identical reanactment in the 80's  and continuing to this day we seemingly don't care.  I hate pulling the race care, but could it be because in the 20's it was happening to main stream America and in the 80's it was focused on minorities that we've taken twice as long (so far) to learn the same lessons?
   
  Edit:  All drugs should be legalized, taxed, and regulated.  Appropriate taxes should be attached but not rediculous taxes that make them unaffordable (as this will just cause the process to go underground)

• D6fer said on May 19, 2008....

  dd....I think that is why so many oppose it...there will be more potheads....and then what will the new "taboo" be?
  
  Sean....I'm not sure what you are talking about in the 80's.....I doubt that it ever got even close to happening then.
  

• SeanRenaud said on May 19, 2008....

  I laid this out clearly for you how the rise of the modern street gang has mirrored the rise of the mafia and for similar reasons and yet we watched nearly the exact same thing happen for the exact same reasons and we shrug?  Why?  Are blacks really that lowly valued?

• mulgere-hircum said on May 19, 2008....

  Hey Sean, I must say I agree with you.  I am not one for taking narcotics; however, prohibiting it does nothing but cause more crime as people seek to purchase drugs through the black market (i.e., drug dealers).  If drugs were legalized, regulated, taxed and laws against use while operating vehicles and the like were enforced, we would truly cripple the drug dealers and keep the majority of users out of our over crowded prisons.  Everything you said is true, in my opinion.

• SeanRenaud said on May 19, 2008....

  It goes deeper than that mulgere.  50% of the incarcerated are in jail for drug related charges and we all know what happens in prison.  Going to prison doesn't make you  better citizen it malke you a better criminal.  The more people we can prevent from going to jail the better.

• mulgere-hircum said on May 19, 2008....

  D6fer, I am not sure there is any evidence that there will be more Potheads.  Smoking is still legal and yet the amount of smokers in this nation is on a decline.  Education is the best policy against steering people away from things, not prohibition.  People who are going to use drugs are simply going to use them whether they are legal or not.  Because marijuana is illegal, our jails and prisons are filled with people whose worst crimes are the munchies.

• mulgere-hircum said on May 19, 2008....

  Sean, I agree.  We incarcerate people who need, at the worst, rehab and those who need to be incarcerated remain in the streets.  Our system is totally screwed, and I agree that jails don't rehabilitate.  They just create more efficient criminals.  I am with you on that.  You have to admit though that certain individuals need to be incarcerated; however, I agree, the more we keep out of prison (meaning those who don't really belong there) the better.
  

• lambovet said on May 20, 2008....

  Mulgere H- I think you hit it on the head. What we need is education in a plethora of fields. How we go from propaganda to education is a different problem.

• angelina-jolie said on May 20, 2008....

  great

• mulgere-hircum said on May 20, 2008....

  lambovet:  Yes that is a different problem, and one that would need to be addressed.  But to think that the way to lower crimes is to have more laws placing more people in jail is crazy.  Sean is right, that just doesn't add up.

• SeanRenaud said on May 20, 2008....

  We do need to increase education and that will open opportunities that will get less people in jail.  But still eliminating as many stupid crimes as possible would be a good start.  Prostitition, drug use and distribution would both be good starts.

• stopmediabias said on May 20, 2008....

  I agree marijuana should be legal.  The other drugs there should be flood of education and if ever they were to be legal I think it should be a slow gradual process. 

  I don't think I would want to see heroine or crack just one day illegal then the next day legal. 

• brit said on May 20, 2008....

  Yes. Legalize. All. Please. It's our lives the government is trying to control. Let the individual be in control of his/ her life. Let us be the one's to screw it up and/or improve if we want to do so. 

• SeanRenaud said on May 20, 2008....

  Crack and heroine should be legal, should be taxed, should be regulated.  Not only then can the government control it, but wait their's more.  Customers would know what they were getting unlike todays world where you might get something laced to get you a new addiction.  It would be regulated.  We also wouldn't be funding Afghani terrorists. 
   
  We also wouldn't be funding the gangs that are flooding our streets.  No funding equals less money for guns and bullets, it also equals less things to fight over.  Which has less people in prison.
   
   

• D6fer said on May 20, 2008....

  I laid this out clearly for you how the rise of the modern street gang has mirrored the rise of the mafia and for similar reasons and yet we watched nearly the exact same thing happen for the exact same reasons and we shrug?  Why?  Are blacks really that lowly valued?
  
  We cracked down on the mafia and all but got rid of them over the last 50 years....why should we give any other racial group the same opportunity?
  

• D6fer said on May 20, 2008....

  Crack and heroine should be legal, should be taxed, should be regulated.
  
  You have got to be kidding!.....why not crystal meth?
  

• SeanRenaud said on May 21, 2008....

  Sorry ALL DRUGS, EVERY SINGLE ONE should be legal, taxed and regulated.
   
  We cracked down on the Mafia, we cut their funding.  With prohibition gone they had no way to fund themselves en masse and were no longer seen as heroes in any neighborhood.
   
  Today yean the guys doing the "hard" drugs are still not so popular but even you seem to agree that Marijuana should be legal.
   
  The thing that's truly  frightening about this is that we've walked this road before, there are still people alive from the last time we tried this.  I've clearly pointed out the reasons why this happened last time, how it's happening this time, you've offered no reasons other than the standard emotional THIS IS BAD!!! for why we shouldn't.
   
  You know who else uses this debate from the heart but without facts structure.  Global Warming Enthusiasts.

• mulgere-hircum said on May 21, 2008....

  Again, Sean, I couldn't agree with you more.

• D6fer said on May 21, 2008....

  I'm on the fence with pot being legalized.....but I can't get past that......the area in which I live has a serious meth problem....people stealing things like heat pumps to get the copper out of them.....water pumps for brass....etc...so they can cash it in to support their habit....stealing cars....you name it....if it aint bolted down (sometimes even if it is) they will take it!

• SeanRenaud said on May 22, 2008....

  I'm sorry you have that problem in your neighborhood.  That doesn't change the fact that by keeping these things illegal funds both street gangs in the US and terrorists over seas.

   

  It doesn't change the fact that putting people in jail has a habit of making them into better criminals so the more people can keep out of prison the better off we'll be.

   

  It doesn't change the fact that just like drinking and smoking making these things illegal hasn't stopped people from doing it. 

   

  Prohibition doesn't work on anything.  It didn't work on alcohol, it created the Mob and the Mafia.  Fact.

   

  It didn't work on prostitution.  It created pimps.  Substantiated opinion.

   

  It didn't work on drugs, it created street gangs in the US and funded terrorism over seas.  Afghanistan is one of the top producers of poppy hense opium.  It's not like any terrorists from Afghanistan have ever hurt us or anything.

   

  If this were legal and regulated the tax money could go to say pay for more cops (it won't be, realistically it will be a raise for Congress) to protect your area. 

• lambovet said on May 22, 2008....

  D6- There are some very good comments here. I think we are missing the larger point. Drug abuse/addiction is a medical problem not a legal one. We will never solve the problem if we don't identify it correctly. 

• SeanRenaud said on May 22, 2008....

  Good point and one that I was failing to make.  (Though I suppose just like suicide if you lock people up you have solved the problem.  They can't get drugs/alcohol/kill themselves, ergo problem solved.

• D6fer said on May 22, 2008....

  Speaking as a father, I know from experience that kids will equate anything that is "legal" to be "ok"....It's not ok......kids don't always follow our advise, or our rules for that matter......making drugs legal will make more problems for our already morally bankrupt society.

• SeanRenaud said on May 22, 2008....

  There is ZERO evidence to support that.  You're sticking to the global warming George Bush is evil debate model.  Which is ok if you're ok with it.

• D6fer said on May 22, 2008....

  no evidence? I've raised 2 girls to the age of 19.....you don't think I know?

• silverwhisper said on May 23, 2008....

  d6, legalizing something generally makes it less of a problem, not more. you do remember hearing about something called "prohibition", right?
  
  ed

• SeanRenaud said on May 23, 2008....

  No, he's raised 2 girls to the age of 19.  That means prohibition didn't happen, it also means we had a huge drug problem prior to the war on drugs.
   
  Did you know that big oil is robbing this country blind?  If they weren't so greedy gas would be .99 cents a gallon but they got Bush in the White House so they could rob the poor.

• D6fer said on May 23, 2008....

  you guys have no kids! you have no fucking clue what you are talking about! How does prohibition relate to drugs? drugs were never legal.....booze was...then they prohibited it.....that created a problem............this is my biggest problem with liberalism.....once you commit to a liberal policy, there is no turning back.....you can't fix it!......that is why we should not legalize drugs, and that is why we should not nationalize health insurance!
  Sean....have you ever heard of OPEC?
  

• SeanRenaud said on May 23, 2008....

  Having kids makes you emotional ergo irrational.  I've clearly pointed out not only the historical context which you ignore because you think that it being legal once then taken away is special.
   
  I point out the explosion of crime and violence when we started enforcing drug policies strongly in this country.  Which you ignore because, well Crips and Bloods and MS13 (an international gang) they aren't funded by the drug trade, not at all. 
   
  I've pointed out that in prison people are forced to become more violent and better criminals to survive that enviroment, we then cut them lose on society and well, we've seen and are watching the results.
   
  Lamb pointed out that addiction is a medical problem and can only be fixed as one.
   
  We shouldn't nationalize health care, that's  a different conversation.  We should, we must and worse we've already nationalized it just we went about it backwards and hense we're in this problem we have, but still that's a separate blog.
   
  OPEC?  You know they answer to Bush and Co don't you?  They're all in it together so that you and I will freeze to death because they think they're better than us.  It's not Supply and demand ever notice how all the gas companies change prices at the same time?!

• silverwhisper said on May 23, 2008....

  d6: evidently, in your case becoming parent means losing your brain.

• D6fer said on May 23, 2008....

  having kids makes me experienced....have you ever considered the fact that the explosion in crime coincided with the explosion of liberalism?
  The criminals have been babied by the work of the ACLU......Had they not gotten rid of chain gangs, capital punishment (most of it), and given them all of the amenities that they enjoy today....I don't think we would be releasing so many non reformed criminals back into society today, had all that not happened.
  

• SeanRenaud said on May 23, 2008....

  Having children makes you experienced, in child rearing.  While I might debate with you on what is an appropriate thing for a child, I can defer to your expertise. 
   
  But to claim that raising two children makes you somehow an expert on the rest of isn't true.
   
  Also the explosion in crime wasn't part of the explosion of liberalism.  In the 70's with all those flower children running around, free sex, doing drugs, high all the fucking time.  The explosion in crime didnt' happen until the explosion of Conservatism of Regan!  In the 80's. 
   
  If capital punishment was truly effective (though I'm still all for the death penalty, if anything I would abolish life in jail w/o parole for death) then Europe which has completely done away with it would be awash with crime, but it's not.  Your theories simply are contrary to the facts. 
   
  Bush is teh evil!  9/11 was planned by Bush so he could raise oil prices, if we'd do away with this conservative idea of capitalism the world would be a better place with rainbow powered love machines!
   

• D6fer said on May 23, 2008....

  Liberalism evolved in the courts in this case...not the White House.
  
  Dude, that last statement is going to damage your credibility!
  

• SeanRenaud said on May 23, 2008....

  Liberalism reigning in th courts caused us to double our number of incarcerated?  Maybe I'm not seeing something, I mean I haven't raised any children.  Can you explain to me how being judges and juries being more liberal/lax would lead to more people in jail rather than less?  Cus I'm having a hard time seeing it. 
   
  I'm making a point everybody else gets it.  Bush didn't plan 9/11, doesn't control the price of oil or any of those other rediculous things.  The people who claim that he does make wild assertations that they can't defend because they are false statements.  They don't have facts and defendable positions and in a debate it's very easy to figure them out because they keep shouting about the babies or other things that have no bearing on the conversation.  Just as you're doing here against drugs.  You may as well be screaming that Bush is evil for all the facts.  It's the same tired porn is evil cus you wouldn't want your mom in it argument.
   
   

• silverwhisper said on May 23, 2008....

  having kids makes you incapable of thinking things through, d6.
  
  quite frankly, d6, i really hate discussing politics with you. just delete my comments here.
  
  ed

• D6fer said on May 24, 2008....

  I must have missed a conversation somewhere that made your views public knowledge sean.....no I didn't get your point.....if that was sarcasm.
  
  no Ed.....I prefer to leave peoples insults for everyone to see.
  
  It is you two that don't get it.......you think we should make drug choices easier for kids to make....great idea!....wanna try some crack?...sure! it's all good....it's legal now!
  

• silverwhisper said on May 24, 2008....

  no, it's you that don't get it, d6. the same thinking you're espousing here is the same idiocy that leads people to bleat, "guns are dangerous, they need to be outlawed!"
  
  it's the same exact thinking. can't you hear in the background people crying "will no one think of the children?!"
  
  jeez, turn off the talk radio and think for yourself!
  
  ed

• D6fer said on May 24, 2008....

  I'm thinking of my kids.....my future grandkids......guns have a purpose....illegal drugs do not....big difference ed.
  
  Why do I get the feeling that you guys just want to get high legally?
  

• SeanRenaud said on May 24, 2008....

  Ok what purpose does liquor, porn, cigarettes or video games serve?
   
  You know what it's rare that I just give up, not agree to disagree. I've done that with worthy opponents.  Bloc, Silver, ALIEN, Truth a few others whom I can't think of right now.  This isn't me politely agreeing to cross swords again later over the same issue. 
   
  You aren't debating the issues though, you're not debating the facts.  You're feeling for your children and because you're feeling rather than thinking you're making their world more dangerous rather than less.  I've clearly demonstrated this in a myriad of ways but I'm done here until/unless you bring in SOMETHING, ANYTHING that even sorta looks like evidence that I'm not 100% right (and really I'm only 70% sure I'm right) I'm done.
   
  You're opinion on drugs is officially labeled under U R DUM along with people who believe in Creationism, people who believe that human beings have destroyed the world, people who believe that the climate isn't changing at all, people, people who deny the holcaust, people who think that George Bush has a weather machine and used it to destroy New Orleans, people who think Bush started the Iraq war so his oil buddies could get a pay day, people who think Bush planned 9/11 and people who think the Free Masons are going to kill all but one million people on this planet.
   
  There just isn't anything to debate.  I may as well be telling a six year old that wrestling isn't real.  Actually that's more productive most days.

• stopmediabias said on May 24, 2008....

  Interesting argument, I thought I would throw my 2 cents in.

  Sean said:   "Sorry ALL DRUGS, EVERY SINGLE ONE should be legal, taxed and regulated."

  This statement I personally do not take a conservative view, I agree with him on this, BUT I also (being a father of two kids, one of them 18) can see D6's point.  We have gotten this far by a slow process of things becoming excepted: porn, liguer, and I think the segment of our population that represents all of our kids would be the most harmed if it was a today legal tommorrow not type of thing.

  There should be a flood of education about the dangers of things like crystal meth at all levels of school everyday.  If then these drugs were ever made legal our kids wouldn't go near them.  I think to often we try to hide things from our kids (with good intentions) when we should actually just tell them the truth.

  One of the points that D6 was making (indirectly) kids are the most disgustingly irrational people in the world.  There are 16 years olds who can drive a car and if crystel meth was made legal tommorrow they would run right out as quickly as possible and try as much as they can without thought or consequence.  Having kids does give you a different view of the world because everything we adults do affects our kids, and technically our kids are going to be running this place some day. 

  Sean: Wrestling isn't real??!!

   

   

• silverwhisper said on May 24, 2008....

  d6, it's really damned insulting to insist that the only reason someone disagrees with you is because they have a person stake in something. and to be honest, i think that's really crappy thinking, to boot.
  
  ed

• pickersplock said on May 24, 2008....

  I was just reading along, and thinking it's really weird that here in New York, the same people who want to legalize drugs are the ones trying to get rid of the cigarette smokers.
   
  I agree, marijuana should be legal, especially for medical purposes.
   
  And I understand the organized crime point.
   
  I'm not so sure legalizing something like heroin is such a great idea.  It's highly addictive, more so than nicotine.
   
  I can picture the future campaign ads, for legal heroin.  I'm sure big business would love to get it's hands on that one! LOL
   

• SeanRenaud said on May 24, 2008....

  Considering the lawsuits we've allowed to be passed against cigarettes I'd be shocked if any Big Bussiness touched heroin.

• D6fer said on May 25, 2008....

  Sean.....you are simply wet behind the ears.....and such a hypocrite...why are my concerns any less valid than your reasons for legalization of the poisons you mentioned?
  
  Ed.....I just don't see why anyone without a vested interest would want something as destructive as  some of the drugs discussed here, legalized .
  
  
  
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on May 25, 2008....

• truthsayer said on May 27, 2008....

  Just reading along at this point. Peace, fellow-think-babies. Truth

• SeanRenaud said on May 27, 2008....

  Hey my last post was deleted.
   
  Once it is legalized it will be safer than it is now. 
   
  You didn't make a rationalization, you said I raised two daughters, over and over again.  You don't think I have a vested interest?  Do I really need to explain this AGAIN?  http://cbs2.com/local/Gang.Violence.Jamiel.2.668521.html
   
  Do you think this would happen if crack was being sold by Rite Aid and Walgreen?
   
   

• D6fer said on May 27, 2008....

  Do you think it would happen if the schools, police, court system handled things "old school"? I don't.

• SeanRenaud said on May 27, 2008....

  Explain "old" school.  I've explained time and time again that our current system is more draconian than it was before.  I mean unless you are arguing that beating chidren should still be legal. 
   
  Even if that were your argument Europe is far more liberal than us and has less problems than we do so you're argument doesn't hold up to reality.

• silverwhisper said on May 28, 2008....

  d6: just b/c you can't understand something doesn't make it any less true. i don't get trig, but that doesn't make it suddenly poof into a cloud of nonexistence, man!
  
  ed

• D6fer said on May 28, 2008....

  funny how everyone likes to use europe as an example of how things ought to be.....yet they don't have the number of immigrants and the problems associated with that many people wanting in.....people have been fleeing europe for hundreds of years to come here......is it because they want to be part of our inferior system?

• D6fer said on May 28, 2008....

  I am saying that sean......they need to start cracking heads at all levels.

• SeanRenaud said on May 28, 2008....

  Seriously at what point do you start presenting evidence to support your claims rather than just howling at the moon?  There is no compelling evidence that our court system has become more liberal.  The crack down on drugs and other crimes is proof that we are stricter legally.
   
  You can make the argument that in the 1950's we were allowed to physically strike students.  Unfortunately true comparisons between 50's students and modern students is impossible.  Just like comparing the draft military to the volunteer one.  It's nearly impossible because too much has changed.
   
  How many people are fleeing Europe right now to come here?  Are you going to tell us about how in the fourteen hundreds there were a bunch of religious zelouts are you?  Or about how there was a potato famine, or shit how they pretty much hosted (and knew they were hosting) the two largest wars in history? 

• SleeplessNites said on Jul 09, 2008....

  OK, so you know I don't smoke pot, however this has been an issue for my whole generation since I have been alive.  Plus I have smoked pot in the past.  In knowing that I have not once blacked out by smoking a joint.  I have never got in a car accident.  While I was smoking pot I can and have passed many sobriety test.  So how can smoking pot, be worst then drinking alcohol. Don't get me wrong I drink.

• D6fer said on Jul 10, 2008....

  I know a guy who is paralyzed from a car accident in which the driver was stoned...ask him.

• SeanRenaud said on Jul 10, 2008....

  I knew a person who died because the driver was drunk.  Ask. . . no wait.  IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER!

• D6fer said on Jul 10, 2008....

  All potheads are morons.

• silverwhisper said on Jul 10, 2008....

  i'm sure starchini will be thrilled to hear that.
  
  ed

• one_wired_kitty said on Apr 27, 2009....

  How about like a "cafe" of sorts ... if that makes sense ... have a sales tax on what's sold ... you can either smoke it in your home or in the cafe .... without fear of going to jail .... you can't sell it yourself - which is why we have the cafes ... no fear of being taken to jail if you transporting it home.

   

  Does that make sense?

• stopmediabias said on Apr 27, 2009....

  D6-Holy cow I never saw that!  All potheads are morons?  Do you personally know all potheads?
   
  OWK-Massachusetts(confirmed) and I believe New York(unsure) have recently decriminalized certain amounts of pot.  You can have up to an ounce in your home, outside the home is confiscation and a fine.  Smoking in your car is treated like a DUI.

• D6fer said on Apr 27, 2009....

  smb.....I stand by that comment.....it is a stupid stupid habit.

• SeanRenaud said on Apr 28, 2009....

  You know what I'll qualify that all potheads are morons.  But all addicts of any sort are morons.  Alcholics. workaholics whatever.  Same diff.

  Now let me qualify my statement with this.  Pothead clearly implies that you are incapable of functioning in society.  The same as an alcholic.  Which sadly at least in part is decided by your job.  Britney Spears (bare with me here) can be high as a kite and drunk off her ass three hundred and fifty six days a year providing two things.  She doesn't drive under the influence, get sloppy in public and raises her head above the cloud long enough every couple of years to put out a new album and continue to get paid. 

  If you have two full time jobs and you drink one wine cooler you very well may be an addict simply because it's going to get in the way of you working.

  But yeah letting ANYTHING get the point where it interfers with your life is stupid and I'll stand by that.

• D6fer said on Apr 28, 2009....

  I think being addicted to any illegal substance takes stupidity to another level.....what part of illegal do people not understand?...granted, alcohol is illegal for minors....but if the line is not drawn somewhere, the problem is only going to get worse......there are many people (usually younger ones) that feel the need to cross the line of taboo, regardless where that line lies.....that is really the only problem I have with any controlled substance being legalized.

• SeanRenaud said on Apr 29, 2009....

  The counties where it's legal don't seem to have larger problems than we do.  And I might add that MOST of our problem is self generated because we so aggressively prosecute it.  I do agree that being addicted to something illegal is worse than being addicted to something legal but only slightly. 

  Course we definitely made the wrong call on pot at the least.  So many problems would literally go away tommorow (or maybe the day after) if we started legalizing this stuff.  And there is little reasont o believe that legalzing it would make more people use it.  Smoking is legal and so is snuff but we've been so effective in demonizing tobacco that not that many people do it.  I'm sure we can demonize a few more drugs, particularly the ones that are proven to be a major health risk. 

  I'd gladly trade a few more pot heads for an end to Street gangs, columbian cartels and oh yeah funding the Taliban.

Comment on "The real meat of politics.....todays subject: Legalizing drugs"

Currently tagged	marijuana legalized drug politics drugs the failed drug war weed right is right weed whacker (Click to add tags below)
Tag this post	(Separate tags using commas, for example: New York, dating, vegetarian)
Your comment
	Comment Anonymously