• travelr712 said on May 11, 2008....

  oh, the gov't and military control the media during a 'time of war'? now THERE'S a surprise!

• bloc said on May 11, 2008....

  you would think, but many people seem to think that most major news outlets are the opposite and carrying water for the anti war movement. Hell, silverwhisper and I have had debates on this! I'm unsure if I've convinced him yet. 

• lfbno7 said on May 12, 2008....

  Control the media and you control the mind.

• silverwhisper said on May 12, 2008....

  actually, what we've debated in the past is whether or not there's liberal bias in the media, not whether the media establishment as a whole is just a sockpuppet. the issues are related, but not identical, IMV. :>
  
  will return later to read the article. :>
  
  ed

• kelly said on May 12, 2008....

  "oh, the gov't and military control the media during a 'time of war'? now THERE'S a surprise!"
  
  
  This attitude is exactly what is addressed in the article.  It's an explanation for why the original story did not receive wider attention or outrage.  People expect that sort of behavior and therefore aren't as up in arms about it when it happens.
  
  
  This article was thoroughly depressing.

• bloc said on May 13, 2008....

  @sw
  yes, definitely related and not identical. I believe we specifically debated if CNN and the New York times are the liberal equivalents of fox news. My memory could be fuzzy though. 

• silverwhisper said on May 13, 2008....

  that's also my recollection. :>
  
  ed

• bloc said on May 13, 2008....

  have I convinced you otherwise? :)

• silverwhisper said on May 13, 2008....

  if we include lunatic operations such as worldnetdaily as part of the spectrum, not really. :>
  
  ed

• bloc said on May 13, 2008....

  i'm not sure what worldnetdaily has to do with a comparison between fox and CNN. I turned on fox the other day and saw this headline "Democratic primary causing our economic problems?"
  
  
  I'm mean seriously, after the Ny Times via judith miller helped trick us into war, and CNN's use of "military analysts" that were a propaganda wing of the pentagon, i fail to see a liberal version of fox? Put Fox's transparent agenda on teh table and it's impossible for me to understand how you could think that.

• silverwhisper said on May 14, 2008....

  i lack the time to present a proper argument, but the point i was trying to make is that the NYT is as liberal as fox is conservative. look at the way the two cover a few of the same news stories, bloc: what facts they choose to highlight, when in the story they're mentioned, etc. if i have the time i'll find one on both sites for a comparison.
  
  ed

• bloc said on May 14, 2008....

  did you ever look into the judith miller episode at the times?
  
  
  This gets back to on of my pet peeves. There is a huge difference between bias and integrity. Having bias does not mean a lack of integrity. Fox has 0 integrity, the NY times has some.

• silverwhisper said on May 14, 2008....

  darn it, i can't recall what blog entry that was--if you can recall where it was, could you post a link?
  
  i think that in our previous discussion, i conflated bias/integrity, as i tend to see them both as "bad journalism". i think that lies at the heart of our previous disagreement, bloc.
  
  ed

• bloc said on May 14, 2008....

  yeah, I seem to disagree with most on this. You and tin both have the same point of view on this. 
  
  
  I was reading some blog or post on reddit about programming where someone said something like, "I stopped reading this persons opinion because he clearly was biased towards language x". Someone responded, if we only listened to opinions of people that haven't formed an opinion then we are only listening to the apathetic. 
  
  
  Give me someone that's taken a hard look at an issue and formed an honest opinion.
  
  
  Back to the issue at hand. I'm sure all journalists are biased, what separates fox is their shameless lack of integrity. I don't turn on CNN and see headlines everyday along these lines: Republican primary hurting our economy? Is Obama a muslim? etc. If we stick with bias and ignore integrity, I don't know why would would but if we did, fox is still an order of magnitude worse than CNN. CNN was almost entirely pro war during the run up to the war, I've never seen fox on the opposite side of their standard bias. 

• silverwhisper said on May 14, 2008....

  you know, i completely agree with you re: integrity/fox. i think i misunderstood your post as being about bias specifically. :>
  
  ed

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