• rustydiamond said on May 04, 2008....

  what are you talking about specifically, cry?

  Or don't I want to know?

• papajack said on May 04, 2008....

  AMEN!

• crybabylu said on May 04, 2008....

  I don't think you want to know, consider it my answer to the ramblings of a madman or woman

  Who knows?

• juangomez said on May 05, 2008....

  I agree.

• crybabylu said on May 05, 2008....

  Thank you juan.

• kruuyai said on May 05, 2008....

  Thanks for trivializing the most important relationships in my life.. my cats.  Maybe you don't feel the same thing for animals that you do for humans, but that doesn't mean that other people don't or that their feelings are any less valid.  I will miss my cats until the day I die, and a day doesn't go by where I don't feel the ache of their loss.  And that is after three, four and five years.  There has been no human whose passing has affected me as strongly, and I might add... there has been no human whose life has affected me as strongly as those of my cats either.
  

• crybabylu said on May 05, 2008....

  crybabylu said 5 minutes ago...

  I am a little surprised at your comment, Kru. I thought and re-thought about my post before posted it, knowing how people and even myself think and feel about our pets. 'I am only saying that I have lost both, a dog that was very much a big part of my heart, and my mother-n-law, and they both were tragic, but my mother-n-law's was still the deepest lost between the two. I am not "trivilizing" the most important relationship in your life.  I have written several times how my cat, tiger is my best friend.

  I have two dogs and 3 cats, all of which are dear to me. I would have hoped that you would have been more offended at the blogger who originally made the comments, that the lost is exactly the same, than being offended at me.  Even compares that the hamburger at McDonald's had the same value as a human, surely you don't agree with that remark. 

  Again, I say, I am surprised and even shocked that you would comment this way to me, when you know how much I value all life.  Have a good day!  :=)

• crybabylu said on May 05, 2008....

  To Kru----I again just re-read my post to myself and Papa Jack and neither one of us find one thing in there that is trivilizing the loss of a pet.  Would you care to re-read my post again?  Maybe you missed its intended meaning....LOL

• crybabylu said on May 05, 2008....

  

  
  My best friend, Tucker.  Wherever I am in the house, or whenever I sit down up in my lap he lies, we are very much joined at the hip....

• crybabylu said on May 05, 2008....

  

  
  This is my little "precious"

  She is a Yorkie and her name is  Zoey

• GracefullyGrowing said on May 05, 2008....

  Kru,
   
  I think perhaps you misunderstood Dee's post.  I don't read any trivializing at all in THIS blog.  I can't say the same for the blogs of others on this site, however.  I suspect this blog of Dee's is a response to one that I read yesterday that was truly trivializing the feelings of those who are experiencing loss through death.  It was written by someone who has a well deserved repuation for being the antagonist.   So perhaps you will re-think your perception and feelings, now that you have more relevant information.  I hope so!
   
  Dee,
   
  I agree with you.  There is absoluely *nothing* wrong with how people respond to death and loss, grief and mourning, in our community here.  In fact, it's quite healthy.  I find that those who actually do trivialize it show severe anti-social behavior.
   
  One particularly poignant point we have to understand is that our culture in America is to . . . trivialize. . . death and loss.  We have eliminated all the symbols of death in our society.  (Arm bands, black mourning clothes, a "respectable" time of mourning, ETC.)  Our capitalist culture gives people a total of three days to fully mourn our loss, and then we are expected to be back to life as usual.  We all expect others to grieve, but if they dare grieve longer than a couple months we tend to think there's something wrong with them.  If they put up some type of memorial to the dead, we accuse them of putting up a "shrine" . . . and we tend to put a negative attitude on that.  If a person seems back to normal in a short time, we call them strong.  If they are not back to what we perceive as normal in a short time, we call them weak. 
   
  It's ludicris!!
   
  Carl Jung said . . . "The things that irritate us about others is a window into ourselves."  To those who can not deal with others who are mourning and grieving, I suggest you take a look at yourselves.  I would bet you have some grief and loss issues you haven't dealt with. 
   
  ~Grace~
  (who's getting down off the soap box now)

• hottips4u said on May 05, 2008....

  Cry :  I am going to give you the same advise as you tried on kru....
  
  You need to read it again >>>> HERE<<<< because what your saying isn't there either.  If you want to take exception, at least be accurate and in context and try the truth for a change.
  
  Have you ever gone an entire day without a lie passing your teeth ?  Re-read it, then stop the bullshit, if thats at all possible for you.
  
  Jessica.
  

• crybabylu said on May 05, 2008....

  Thank you, Grace, you said much better than I did.

   

  Hottips4U-----How flattering that you took time to visit my blog.  I didn't mention  anyone by name, because I thought that would be impolite.  I just have never had anyone compare human life, to that of a "hamburger".  In all, that was the upsetting part of post I read.

  I see that a tag entitled "Liar" has been added to this post, and it wasn't there before your comment, but unlike other people around here who sometimes jump to conclusions, I am not going jump to any here.

  Afterall, we are entitled to our own opinions, and disagreements, and in America, we are all entitled to "free speach", and I defend that right to everyone, not only those I agree with.

  Thank you again for visiting my blog, and please feel free to come back anytime you wish to leave a comment......LOL, dee.

• GracefullyGrowing said on May 05, 2008....

  Resist the temptation to feed the starving coyote, everyone.  Things that are starving will do ANYTHING to get what they are after.  Anything.  Take the high road!  The coyote doesn't even know it exists.
   

• hottips4u said on May 05, 2008....

  Cry  :  You made this post for attention and attention only ; and specifically about me and my post.  You didn't have the nerve to be up front in mine, so I came to yours and up front as possible. 
  
  As to the tag, I put the tag LIAR on this post, because thats what you have done here and deliberately.  Like I told you once before, the words passing your lips are no different than your teeth....false and plastic.
  
  
  Hottips4u. 

• crybabylu said on May 05, 2008....

  Thank you for your comments.

• hottips4u said on May 05, 2008....

  And, fuck you for yours, liar.
  
  Jessica.
  

• Eilan said on May 05, 2008....

  The way I see it, anyone who has a problem with anything I posted recently about losing two grandmothers in 30 hours can hit the back button and kiss my ass.
  
  What's more, I don't see anything here that trivializes the death of pets, either.  I've lost a fair amount of pets, and while I did cry and mourn those deaths, they don't compare to the deaths of my human loved ones.  Not even close.
  

• pusscat said on May 05, 2008....

  hottips4u - what took you so long?  I've told you before and I shall tell you again.  You are one of the rudest, bad mannered people I have ever come across and trust me, I've met many.  You are someone who only pops up to cause distress where, quite often, it is already present.  You relish in the misunderstandings that people here have.  Cry has only ever created interesting blogs that I am aware of and, if any of us here tell a 'lie' it is usually a genuine error.  Genuine is not a word I can use on you though.  As I have told you before, go away and have a long, long think about why you have such hatred and malice in that black mind of yours.  It may be cliche what Thumper's mother told him but you could use this advice, "If you haven't got anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all".
   
  There are many bloggers here who do cause controversy but for discussion and debate.  That's the difference.  Intelligent, well mannered blogging.  You should have been taken over your mother's knee and spanked many, many years ago and had your mouth washed out with soap.
   
  pusscat

• hottips4u said on May 05, 2008....

  First of all, to compare grieving over human life to that of a "hamburger" that one eats, or strays Is pure Ludicrious! Ridiculous!  verging on Insanity!
  
  I just have never had anyone compare human life, to that of a "hamburger".  In all, that was the upsetting part of post I read.
  
  Even compares that the hamburger at McDonald's had the same value as a human, surely you don't agree with that remark.
  
  __________________________
  
  The above three comments are those of Crybabylu, extracted from this very page.
  
  These are words of the antagonist here.
  
  Because I did not say what Crybaby indicates in her words directly above.  Those are lies, intentional lies.
  
  Crybabylu read my post and retained ?  Not much.  Read it for yourself, then get over it.
  
  Hottips4u.
  
  
  

• pusscat said on May 05, 2008....

  Actually hottips, I'dalready read your original post as i considered it only fair before I posted my comment.  You are still the very last person that can cry "liar", "shame on you Cry".  Everyone here does have the right to blog and you have every right to comment.  It's the way you comment hottips!  You are by no means commenting on behalf of the majority, you don't really care about who dies or not, as you stated in your post, so why do you have to be so blatent with your bile?  that's where the bee in my bonnet is borne.  The vehement way in which you comment to people is just so unnecessary and as i said originally, rude and bad mannered.  Just take it that many people here often misread posts or just have different perceptions.  You can comment back to me to your heart's content, from what I have seen for myself of you on Soulcast, my opinion of you will not waver.
   
  The sad part is, you appear to be an intelligent person, so put that intelligence into looking before you leap.  Think before you type.

• rmuxagirl said on May 05, 2008....

  cry: I enjoyed reading your post my sweet and you are right there is a difference in grieving for the lose of an animal and the lose of a human life.
  
  to Hottlips: I as well read your post and I see why cry wrote what she wrote.  She did not direct it at you basically to anyone who disagrees with things they read at which in your post you were disagreeing with those of us who have written about the lose of a loved one.  The way some of us grieve is to write about it.  I didn't write my post on my uncle's deaths for sympathy but because I needed to write things out the same with when I was diagnosed with cancer and so much more. 
  
  ~ Bottom line, no one death is more or less important than another. ~
  
  That is your own comment on your own blog.  When some of us post about the deaths we experience we are not saying that the death of a loved on is more important than the death of soldiers in the war or the Iraq child caught in a crossfire.
  

• travelr712 said on May 05, 2008....

  you're missing the point, pusscat, and cry. jessi's blog has had NO activity for a couple weeks. s/he gets bored and lonely when no one comments. It's time to start another round of controversies to get themselves noticed again. What better way to do so than to trivialize the death of one of the members of this blog site? and guess what? it's working! this post is becoming about them.

• dyingman said on May 05, 2008....

  Dang, Crybabylu...
  
  Why do you care what some sociopathic weed says on an anonymous blog?
  
  YOU know it's okay to mourn a pet.
  As for belittling grieving over hamburger, I imagine there are farm kids that get very upset when they make the mistake of befriending cows.
  
  Some cultures consume dog and find it very odd that we make pets of them.
  
  The poor pathetic saps that must attempt to torment innocent people they don't know....  you mustn't feed them your rage.  I throw them shovelfuls of pity.
  
  How bored are they... how unloved and useless must they be that giving YOU a hard time is worth writing about to them?
  
  *DM
  
  

• crybabylu said on May 05, 2008....

  To Everyone Who Participated In this Discussion:

   

  And I do mean everyone, I give my heartfelt thanks.  I have learned a great deal from all of the comments.  I pray that every time I post or comment, that I always keep an open mind as well as an open heart, so that I might learn.  I believe I have learned much today.

  Thank you all!

• rustydiamond said on May 07, 2008....

  there certainly is a difference, cry, but i thought we all agreed we weren't going to comment on those kinds of posts, what happened to make you change your mind?...did you backslide?Ha!

• rustydiamond said on May 07, 2008....

  another thing, i still miss woolie like crazy and my dog, brandy.

• kruuyai said on May 07, 2008....

  Dee:  First of all, I read what you wrote and responded to it directly with my honest and personal response.  I did not have the time or interest in scouring these pages to find out if there was another post that influenced yours.  We are each responsible for our own words, regardless of the circumstances that may have provoked or inspired them.  After reading your comments and re-reading your post, I believe that your statements reflect your true feelings/beliefs, and I am still offended by them.
  
  What is offensive to me is not that you felt more pain on the passing of your mother-in-law than you did over your dog.  If you had a closer relationship with your MIL than with your dog, it's completely understandabled that you would feel more pain over her passing than the dog's.  What offended me was  that you stated that "to compare grieving over human life to that of a "hamburger" that one eats, or strays Is pure Ludicrious! Ridiculous!  verging on Insanity!"  It's not exactly a huge leap of logic to infer that, because I've felt more pain over the death of my cats than over that of any humans, that you think that I am ludicrous, ridiculous and verging on insanity.  Do you see where I'm coming from now? 
  
  Since hottips was kind enough to provide a link to her post, I went over and read it, and I'd have to say that I agree with some of her points and disagree with others.  On the points I agree with, however, I'm coming at it from a different perspective. 
  
  Where she says, "I feel no more empathy for the strays that are put down nationally every day than the cows turned into patties and distributed at McDonalds,"  I would say that I feel as much empathy for the strays that are put down nationally every day and the cows turned into patties and distributed at McDonalds as I do for the suffering and deaths of humans.  Nobody was ever born a hamburger patty.  Each one of those patties was once a living creature with a mother who loved it.  And that mother's love is no less valid than yours or mine. 
  
  If you don't believe me, consider this.  Human meat can also be turned into hamburger patties.  Is that a revolting idea to you?  How do you feel when you think of a loved one and imagine them being turned into food?  Well, fortunately for us, humans don't have many natural predators, especially in modern times.  But it still happens from time to time.. campers being eaten by grizzlies or mountain lions, divers eaten by sharks.  And I can assure you that those grizzlies, mountain lions and sharks have no more remorse about eating those people than most people have about eating a hamburger.  And yet, that doesn't diminish the pain felt by the people who loved those victims.  In the same way, our indifference to the suffering of animals does not diminish their suffering or mean that less pain is felt by those who love them.
  
  I had a very heated argument on this same topic with a very good friend of mine several years back.  She insisted that I couldn't possible love my cats as much as she loved her son, because a) her son was human, and my cats were "just cats" and b) she had carried her son inside her body.   What she was really saying was that she couldn't love a cat any more than she loved her son.  Her statement was a total invalidation of my capacity for love.  After all... do you measure love by the nature of the person who is loved or of the person who loves? 
  
  And this idea that carrying a child inside your body necessarily results in some sort of sacred and pure bond that is above all other bonds between souls... well, I find that completely ridiculous.   I was raised by my birth mother, and i can assure you that that woman had no love for me.  Nine months in the womb did absolutely nothing to forge a bond. 
  
  I do believe that there are many mothers in the world who do have a sacred and pure bond with their children... a bond so strong that they would be willing to die for them.  I believe it, because i felt the same way about my cats.  But I do not believe that this bond comes about for any physical reasons. I think it's because of the loving natures of the mothers in question.  If that physical tie were the cause of
  the love, then how can you explain mothers like Susan Smith compared to many adoptive mothers (and fathers) around the world who give so much to their adopted children?
  
  In short, I don't believe you can compare your own feelings with the feelings of another person.  All you can do is say what your own experience is without attempting to project your own experience onto others as if yours were the only valid experience.  You can't love an animal as much as you can love a human.  I can accept that.  But to tell me that I can't love an animal as much as you love a human is simply arrogant and invalidating.
  
  Since we're on the topic... as far as the idea of soulcasting death that hottips brought up in her post... I don't share her feelings about that.  If people here really were complete strangers, she might have more of a point, but I think that friendships have been forged here, and some of us share much more with this community than we do with the people that we know "in real life."  I always hate saying "in real life" because it implies that the people here are not real.  In some ways, our relationships here may be more real that the ones we have with people that we've met face to face.  Sure, some may hide facts about themselves like names, geography, race, sex, education, you name it... but "who" they are comes out in their writing, and that is, after all, the most important part of getting to know someone, isn't it?
  
  I think, in modern times, especially in America where most SCers are blogging from these days, people tend to get very isolated, so it's wonderful that we have a place like this to come to when we need to "talk" about something and get some support or feedback.  Is it also a little pathetic?  Well, maybe, but having a fairly isolated existence myself at times, I'm glad to have this outlet.  I went away with the intention of not coming back, but I found that there was something missing in my life.  I need a place where I can let it all out. 
  
  And sure, hottips is right that we all die, and it's inevitable, and in the great scheme of the universe, no single death is a tragedy.  Philosophically, I get that and agree with it.  But on an emotional level, I am in pain when I lose someone I love.  It's not about sympathy for the person who died.  Many times, if the person/animal has been suffering, there's a relief that their suffering has ended, or if they die unexpectedly, then there's gratitude that they didn't suffer.  No, the pain is about our own sense of loss.. the hole that's been left in our lives.  And that is directly proportional to how important that person was in our lives and how much space they occupied in our lives.  It's about the importance that we gave to that person in life. 
  
  And if their SC "obituaries" happen to fall in among some everyday news from other members, how sweet is that?  It just goes to show... life goes on.
  

• crybabylu said on May 08, 2008....

  Kru--  Thank you for taking the time to write this all out and explain to me.  That was nice of you to do that, and it does shed more light on the subject. I guess some things aren't just black and white, and this helps me put it in better perspective..

• kruuyai said on May 08, 2008....

  dee:  you're welcome :)

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