• mobil said on May 03, 2008....

  It's called war Wishy, well not "war wishy" seriously, it's war and war is hell and when in the name of everything that's holy did we forget that?
   
  Like George Bush or not, he's the Commander in Cheif, we trusted him to be President and now we HAVE to trust him. Why is that so hard to understand?
   
  As far as coverage, I'ld like to see some about the good shit that goes on in Iraq, won't see any of that from our socialist networks.
   
  Those bastards have half the nation brain washed, I think the got you too Wishy.

• lfbno7 said on May 03, 2008....

  I am not amused by the tone of Mobil's comment. I can see him explaining to you that there was good reason to do what our government did, and to then expand on the reasons, but I am not amused by "we HAVE to trust him" and I am offended by his "Why is that so hard to understand?" because that comment is calling you a moron. We don't have to trust him and there is no reason to call you a moron. If anyone is a moron here it is Mobil, and regardless of that, his rudeness to you is inexcusable.

• mobil said on May 03, 2008....

  I see beno has stuck his head up out of his hole for a minute haha. You're offended beno? I am sorry to insult your anti American sentimentalities buddy.

   

  I am a Moron, beno, you Sir are a fool and an insufferable bore. I didn't know that Wishy was so stupid she needed you to interpret for her beno. Bite my ass you sniveling little man.

• wishyouwerehere said on May 03, 2008....

  This is my third war, Mobs.  Desert Storm, Afghanistan and now Iraq.  I am well aware of the rules of the game, and while I am thankful my ex- has since retired, once you have a soldier in the house, it gives the whole thing a far different perspective.  It is unlikely I would discount the costs.  What I find offensive is the tactics used in the name of preserving freedom and justice.  All is not fair in love and war.  We are supposed to be setting the example, not holding people without charges.  Six years is a hell of a long time - and let's call it what it was - this guy was basically our hostage.
   
  I'm not opposing the war in Iraq - and even if I was, it doesn't mean I am brainwashed.  It is a difference in opinion.  If another country arrested one of our citizens and held them for six years without formal charges, we would be up in arms, and rightly so - why is that hard to understand?
   
  LFB -  I thank you for defending me, but from what I have seen in the last month or so, Mobil is usually pretty blunt  ... I am pretty sure if he wanted to call me a moron, he would.  Your point about having to trust the president is well taken.  This country has a system of checks and balances that assist in monitoring the activities of public officials.  If we were forced to trust our presidents, there would be no means of impeachment, or congressional override, etc.,  Trust is earned.  So is respect.  I respect the president, but I would like to know what is happening in Guatanamo Bay.   It is doubtful that Sami Haj is an isolated case. In the case of legitimate war criminals, we have no reason to hide.  Why breed suspicion?  Let the world see what these bastards are up to - charge them and give them a trial. 
   
  The United States is the world's best example of a civilized, democratic society.  There is no reason for us to compromise that position while striving to protect our country. 
   
   
   
   
   

• mobil said on May 03, 2008....

  Well said Wishy, but we not only have a President, we have a House and a Senate. If a majority of these elected officials are ok with what's going on in Guantanamo. I am too.

   

  Yes I believe in trust, but to also verify, that's what the whole system is set up to do. I just can't bring myself to support the POW's of our enemies in time of war. It goes against everything I was raised to believe.

   

  As far as the rest of the World, fuck them. What does the rest of the World do for us Wishy? We have saved Europe twice with close to a million American boys lost. What do we get from those pricks Wishy? Why should we care what they think? Who cares? I sure as hell don't.

   

  I am probably too much of a hard charger and a flag waver. I can't stand Jimmy (no guts) Carter and haven't got much time for the Clinton's either. As far as I can see President Bush is a man, all man and he don't hold focus groups. He knows we elected him to do a job and come hell or high water the man's going to follow is own conscience no matter what the rest of the World thinks. I like that Wishy, I really like that..........Didn't mean to offend you, that asswipe, self righteous shitbird beno is just causing trouble, fuck him too. 

• lfbno7 said on May 03, 2008....

  Now you want me to bite your ass? Now I'm sniveling and little? You wouldn't be talking like that in person. What's wrong with you?

• wishyouwerehere said on May 03, 2008....

  Mobs - you strike me as much more eloquent than to resort to names like asswipe and shitbird ;)... LFB, it's a provocative topic, and sure to raise a lot of emotion, regardless of our perspective.  Mobil is just being a little too passionate in his arguments.  I wouldn't take his invitation to bite his ass too seriously, but if you do, I would insist on good hygeine and a little catsup!
   
  On a more somber note, I am sorry to incite such hostility: I hope we can all agree to disagree.  I have a great deal of respect for both of you.  It was the humanistic aspect of this story that caught my attention.  Imagine being held 6 years in a foreign country without charges?  My heart went out to this man, as it does to all our soldiers and their families, and all the everyday people in the Middle East caught up in this conflict.  War IS hell, but there is still room for compassion. 
   

• lfbno7 said on May 03, 2008....

  Wish, nice to talk with you.

• wishyouwerehere said on May 03, 2008....

  Thanks, LFB - I enjoy talking with you also.

• mobil said on May 03, 2008....

  beno, what makes you think I would not talk like this in person? You do not know me, I speak my mind where ever. What's wrong with you?
   
  Wishy, I am always passionate, I call names, yes I do. Oh the shame ! I don't care about the everyday people in the middle east Wishy. People get what they are not willing to fight for. Look at the place, it's not just Iraq, it's the whole damn region, they all have despots for leaders. I don't feel sorry for people like that.
   
  I have arms and ammo till hell won't have it, and I'd kill any SOB who tried to take them from me. It's how I am, it's who I am. I know nothing of this guy you are talkinng about the POW. I am sure if you've heard of him it means news of these guys is getting out. I'll let the people who care about him worry about his fate. I'll worry about our young men fighting and dying there.

• wishyouwerehere said on May 03, 2008....

  There is no shame in being passionate, Mobil.  I am guilty of it myself from time to time.  I am just not as colorful in my choice of adjectives!  I love it when people speak their mind, but I do not like to see other points of view squashed by insults.  I tend to be pretty damned sensitive, and it doesn't take much to shut me up.  I am happy that both you and LFB offered your perspectives, but the resulting tension makes me feel a little guilty for broaching the subject.
   
  I don't think that worrying about our soldiers and feeling compassion for this POW are mutually exclusive.  In fact, my first thought was how I would have felt if someone I loved was taken hostage like while fighting in the Middle East.  I still have friends there and I believe in what they are doing.  I know that our troops face all kinds of hardships and sacrifice, but that doesn't justify behaving in the same manner as our enemies.  Americans are not of the same ilk as those despotic leaders you describe.  Holding innocent people without charges for 6 years is not something I believed would happen here, not in a place known for its commitment to freedom and justice.  Perhaps I am naive, or as I said, there might be more to this than meets the eye ... and getting it out in the open could alleviate suspicion and doubt, especially if we have nothing to hide.
   
  BTW, I notice you didn't ask me to bite your ass, Mobs.  Still afraid of vampires? ;)

• mobil said on May 03, 2008....

  Are you a vampire Wishy? No, I save biting my ass for shitbirds like beno haha. You can bite my ass anytime, just be gentle.

  I guess we will  have to agree to disagree about this Wishy, there is no harm in that, no harm no foul.

  I didn't like the way beno cut in and talked trash. Although I've done it to him many times haha. I just don't like that jackass Wishy.

• curmudgeon said on May 04, 2008....

  "The United States is the world's best example of a civilized, democratic society.  There is no reason for us to compromise that position while striving to protect our country."

   

  Uh - this IS the nation that exterminated the Native Americans, enslaved black Africans for 400 years, invaded Mexico and annexed her Northern Territories, trumped up an excuse to kick Spain out ot the Western Hemisphere, held tens of thousands of Japanese Americans in camps during WWII, nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki, trumped up an excuse to invade Vietnam, murdered two million Vietnamese and then abandoned the Cambodians so two million more would die at the hands of the Khmer Rouge...shall I go on?

   

  As Mobil rightly points out, people do wierd stuff during wartime. Holding a few hundred people in Guantanamo Bay pales in comparison with what we've done throughout our history.

   

  Had another 9/11 happened, I doubt we'd worry very much about the rights of these detainees. The fact that another one hasn't happened is a testament to Bush's sound leadership and the efforts of our people in the military and law enforcement. The ravages of this war have been kept so far from us we barely know it's going on.

   

  If anything, President Bush has run the most ethical war in our nation's history save for MAYBE the American Revolution.

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