LtCmdrWorf1's tags:

dis·cus·sion

dis·cus·sion (dĭ-skŭshʹən) noun

1.       Consideration of a subject by a group; an earnest conversation.

2.           A formal discourse on a topic; an exposition.  

 

I have read many of the comments posted on D6Fer’s “Expelled…A must see,” and I’m amazed at the number of people who don’t seem to understand what Ben Stein is saying.  A closed mind is the greatest threat to things theological, and scientific.  Darwinism is a theory, albeit one that is gaining more momentum with the advances in DNA testing.  What it doesn’t do is explain why we can find the origin of all other species, but our own. 

 

The Creation Story is just that a story.  It is no more valid than evolution.  The simple fact of the matter is, no one was there to see what happened, and time has a way of washing away all evidence of what did.  This is where faith comes in to play; faith: the belief in things not seen, or not proven.  A theory is a leap of faith, based on observation.  This is what Darwin did, and well.  It does not, however; explain everything that has happened up until now. 

 

In my view Intelligent Design is just another way to try and find the truth.  I do not believe that God wants us to exist in a vacuum.  People would have you believe that science and the spirituality cannot exist together in the classroom.  I say nothing is further from the truth.  Science brings us closer to understanding the wonders of God's creation.  To say that God is not present in science does it a disservice.

 

God wants us to know and understand his creation.  To that end he has given us curiosity, and imagination; the two things that in my view bring us closer to God, and understanding Gods creation.  Our greatest enemy is our own close mindedness; an inability to see beyond what we have been taught to believe.  To base a belief system on texts that were, in some cases, were written five thousand years ago is not a bad thing if you are able to take into account that we are not living five thousand years ago, and therein lays the problem, mnay people can’t. 

 

“Hard” scientists, or scientific zealots, are just as much to blame as religious ones. To totally dismiss spirituality and religion as a farce of some kind is just as much a disservice to all human kind.  Intelligent design, in my opinion seeks to bring science and spirituality back together where they belong. 

 

I believe that God wants us to understand.  Now you can believe that, or you can doubt that, it’s entirely up to you.  I’m a Christian.  I believe in God the Father Almighty creator of Heaven and Earth, but I too wonder “How did God do that, and why?”  I think Intelligent Design seeks to answer some of those questions.  I don’t know about you, but I would like an answer if it’s possible to find one. No harm ever came from asking a question.  The harm comes from peoples reaction to the question.  Peace and Long Life

 

Love Worf              



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Comments

  • uniquely-ironic said on Apr 24, 2008....
    Nice blog.  I'm of a similar mind that science and faith can co-exist peacefully.  It always alarms me when supposedly intelligent people declare that science or religion are the only truths.
     
    Then again I'm more Taoist than Christian and this allows me to accept all the possibilities.
  • LtCmdrWorf1 said on Apr 24, 2008....
    Unique,

    I was raised Episcopalian, as were my parents.  I was always taught that while Christianity has some answers it doesn't have them all.  I was always told to seek the truth wherever it may lay.  this doesn't mean that I don't believe in God and Christ.  It just means that I believe there other ways to get to God other than Christ.  Buddhists, Taoists,  Hindus all have a clue as to what it means to be spiritual, and closer to the creator.  Christianity is just one way, but not the only one.  People need to be free to explore God and / or their own spirituality as they see fit , not as someone tells them they should.   Peace and Long Life

    Love Worf
  • uniquely-ironic said on Apr 24, 2008....
    Your childhood religion sounds very moderate and reasonable.  Something not always found in some christian churches.  I do believe the "truth" is a much bigger concept than is encompassed by any one religion or philosophy.  I also believe that all religions possess at least one important part of that truth and the more exposure you have to them, the closer you are to seeing the big picture.
  • LtCmdrWorf1 said on Apr 24, 2008....
    Unique,

    you are a person after my own heart.  People would have us believe that God is static, never changing.  God's  kineticism is all around us, we just need t open our eyes and see it.  Peace and Long Life

    Love Worf
  • pickersplock said on Apr 24, 2008....
    Your post is excellent, Worf!  I agree 100%!
  • GrapeKoolaid said on Apr 24, 2008....
    "God, grant me Serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
    Courage to change the things I can;
    and Wisdom to know the difference."

    It's a serenity prayer that is attributed to John Courtney Murray, a Catholic political theologian, from what I know... 

    Way back in the day, religion, science, and philosophy were all grouped together under a same umbrella.  A discipline to search for the Truth(with a capital "T").  It was just different ways of attacking the same problem, you know? 

    Now in the days of specialization and compartmentalization of knowledge, in this day of professionals, such thoughts are scoffed at, and the disciples of various faiths become exclusionary, shunning the other paths to truth, mired in their own, getting lost along the way. 

    If you think about it, the disciples of sciences are just as dogmatic in their faith as the most stout evangelicals and radical Islam.  The funny thing is, science, once confident of their ability to dispel the darkness of the ages, no longer provide satisfactory explanations of the phenomena they profess to elucidate. 

    I happen to believe that religion(science included) is but a font of politics. 

    This is something that I've been giving a lot of thought lately Worf.  I am planning a post on it soon.  Hopefully my position will be explained a little clearer there.  For now, I'll stop for brevity's sake.  :)
  • LtCmdrWorf1 said on Apr 24, 2008....
    Picker's, I'm glad you agree.  I was afraid that I would look at the comment here and find myself branded a heretic :)

    Grape,
    Ah my friend, I should have known that you would be abreast of the situation.  Tell me, have you read the "Tao of Physics?" Oh, and don't get me started on the compartmentalization of knowledge.  Peace and Long Life Guys.

    Love Worf. 

  • wishyouwerehere said on Apr 24, 2008....
    Wonderfully written, Worf.  Although I do not entirely discount the theory of evolution, there is far too much intricacy to suggest this all happened entirely by chance.  My soul bristles as the suggestion that I am nothing more than an ape with a wider vocabulary and my God-given intellect protests the literal application of Genesis.  Truth is far too vast and infinite to be confined to a single perspective.  God is too large to be defined by one small theory or philosophical argument.
  • LtCmdrWorf1 said on Apr 24, 2008....
    Wish, I could not have said that better. you have summed up in I one paragraph what it took me six to do.  Well said.  Peace and Long Life

    Love Worf
  • kelly said on Apr 25, 2008....
    "What it doesn’t do is explain why we can find the origin of all other species, but our own. "

    Actually, the theory of evolution does this quite well, unless I'm missing your point somewhere in there.  All mammals can be traced back to a thing that is basically a tree-dwelling rodent.
  • LtCmdrWorf1 said on Apr 25, 2008....
    Kelly,

    Yes, I have read about that. According to what we now think we know 65 million years ago when the asteroid hit the only thing that could survive on land was this rodent.  Here's the problem I have with that: We know that whales the biggest mammals on the planet have been here for approximately 50 Million years. So, in 15 million years that little mouse crept back in to the ocean and evolved into something the size of a subway train.  WE didn't come along until about 500,000 years ago.  What happened, and why so long?  These are just a  few of the questions I have when  it comes to the theory of evolution.   I don't dismiss the theory, I just think there are more things here than meat the eye.  Peace and Long Life

    Love Worf
  • ALIENated said on Apr 25, 2008....
    
    Sorry, my comments are never brief, it seems ...
    
    
    http://www.soulcast.com/post/show/126478/Thought-Control-In-Our-Universities
  • LtCmdrWorf1 said on Apr 25, 2008....
    Alien,

    I read your post, and I like how you think.  I'm not sure I agree with everything you say, but I do agree with a good bit of it.  Peace and Long Life

    Love Worf
  • kelly said on Apr 25, 2008....
    Worf, I think you have your timeline mixed up.  Whales themselves have been around since about 65 million years ago.  To find where the eventual human lineage branched off from the eventual whale lineage you have to go back perhaps as far as 144 million years.

    The cataclysmic event that took out the dinosaurs was not the start of mammals, it was the event that allowed mammals to thrive because of their adaptability.
  • LtCmdrWorf1 said on Apr 25, 2008....
    Kelly, Look it up. I did before I wrote it just to be sure my time line as it pertains to whales is correct.  As to what you say about mammal lineage, I will look it up.  Peace and Long Life

    Love Worf  
  • Emarldeyez said on May 01, 2008....
    okay Worf....you're scaring me.  If you are going to say you are a Christian, please, please, follow the leader.  If the Bible is the Word of God then Genesis stands. I am sure you wouldn't say that God is a liar.  He has spoken quite clearly on this subject through His word.

    If you plan to pick and choose from the bible what you will and won't believe, please don't quote it.  Please don't quote Hebrews  11: 1 and then denounce Hebrews  11:3

     (1) Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. (2) This is what the ancients were commended for.  (3) By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

    I believe verse 3 clearly addresses evolution. It even addresses the idea that the world just happened from particles or worse the big bang.

     The entire chapter of Hebrews 11 speaks to the many wonders of God that evolution would have us believe are untrue.  http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=65&chapter=11&version=31

    Please  Worf pick a side.....either you are for Christ or you are not. And before that becomes a debate....What about John 1: 1-5

    (1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (2) He was with God in the beginning.

     (3)Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. (4) In him was life, and that life was the light of men. (5)The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

    I know theology is one of your specialties.  You know that this passage is referring to Jesus as the "Word."   Worf, you really do need to reconcile your views with the scripture you say you love.  Either you're in the boat, Worf, or you're out--reaching and believing in Jesus-- like Peter.

    I am truly not trying to offend....I am however, setting the record straight because I must.  I hate to see people misled when it comes to our great God!



  • wishyouwerehere said on May 01, 2008....
    I'm confused - how would anything Worf has said be construed to contradict God's role in creation?  The way I understand it, the theory of intelligent design in consistent with the scriptures quoted above.  Would love to hear more - Respectfully - Wish
  • Emarldeyez said on May 01, 2008....
    Worf says, "The Creation Story is just that a story.  It is no more valid than evolution."
     
    The creation account is in the bible....which would make it God's Word.  Intelligent design doesn't designate the God of scipture as the creator. And Worf says the bible is invalid.   
     
    My issue is more that the bible is discredited which demeans God, the Creator.
     
    He also quotes scripture and then admonishes it --nearly in the same breath. 
     
    I'm also addressing his comments to other readers that are far from Christian and are not biblical. 
     
    Saying the bible is "just a story" .....that is not Christian.  Sorry, it is just wrong.     
     
     
  • wishyouwerehere said on May 01, 2008....
    Emarld - I am reading it differently than you are, I think.  I interpreted Worf's quote as a comparison between religion and science.  Objectively, the theory of evolution is no more factual than the Biblical account of creation.  Despite attempts to give it credibility as scientific "fact," Darwinism lacks full evidence and requires no less of a leap of faith than Intelligent Design. 
     
    I subscribe to the theory of Intelligent Design because the world is far too intricate to have occurred by chance, by random mutation ...  Man's consciousness, thought and imagination is a strong argument for our divine origins.
     
    There are some Christians who do not adhere to a literal interpretation of the Bible - that does not mean we discount its truth.  I speak for myself here, since I am not privvy to Worf's beliefs on this subject.  The Bible is timeless because it is open to interpretation, allowing us to avail ourselves of our ever-changing knowledge and intelligence.  Of course, there are some basic tenets that are not "negotiable" so to speak, but the lessons of the Bible have many different layers.  For example, as a child, I remember having a very literal understanding of "turn the other cheek."  As an adult, I consider this Jesus' invitation to look at what bothers us about others and then examine that own trait in ourselves - turn the other cheek to consider how that negative trait is reflected in our own character and use it as an opportunity to change our own behavior instead of judging and lashing out at someone else.
     
    As far as the evolution of man - you can create a biological creature who looks like a man, and is genetically consistent with what we understand to be a human being, but if that creature lacks the consciousness, spirit and ability to interact with its Creator, it is not the type of man described by Genesis.  God breathes life into us - life, to be understood as more than just the physiologic processes of each working system, but also the mind, the soul, the glorious awareness of being.  Apes are fascinating, but they do not have these things and Darwinism fails to take this into account.
     
    A literal interpretation of Genesis would ask me to believe that the world as we know it was created in 7 days - first of all, time is a manmade concept.  Second, God surpasses time.  If God wants a day to last a million years, it will.  Done.  The only definition of day and night in Genesis is a separation of light and darkness.  This happens at God's bidding and does not necessarily mean a 24-hr period.  If I am reading correctly, the sun and the moon were not even created until the fourth "day," making our way of telling time inaccurate with regards to this account. This is an example of where I deviate from a literal interpretation, and why I think SOME elements of evolution and creationism are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
     
    Again, I submit my own thoughts with the upmost respect to both you and Worf, and a genuine interest to hear more about your perspectives - Wish
     
       
  • LtCmdrWorf1 said on May 01, 2008....
    Hey Wish and Emerald,

    I see that you two are having a very spirited discussion, that's good.

     you know it funny in Leviticus Chapter 12 it says that women after their menstruation shall not touch any hollowed thing nor enter the sanctuary for thirty - three days.  That's what it says in the Bible therefore it must be true. Right? The Bible and the the Gospel offer us moral guide.  let us remember when it was written, and to whom.  Are some of the more archaic passages to be taken literally today? you've never had beef in white sauce, or shrimp, how about lobster, clams, or any other fish without scales?  As a Christian I follow Christ's two greatest commandments, I love God, and I treat my neighbor as I want to be treated.  And I have to tell you that last commandment is the most  difficult for me.  Emerald, I don't think we will ever see eye to eye on this, and that's fine. God, not you or I, will be the judge.  Peace and Long Life people

    Love Worf             
  • Emarldeyez said on May 02, 2008....
    Worf, as one who knows theology...you  know you are comparing apples to oranges.  You said it yourself the laws of Leviticus were written for God's people to adhere to *the law.*  As a Christian---"Christ" being the center...that with Jesus came a New Covenant.  Please don't continue to mislead here. 

    Genesis is foundational to the Christian faith.  Jesus refers to Genesis....please read that one more time...Jesus, our Savior, refers to Genesis. So am I to assume He, God's Son, God-man, didn't know what He was talking about?  And you do?

    The Gospel contains the Good News of Christ.  That He came to save the world.  He is the Messiah! John 14: 6-7
        (6) Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to         the Father except through me. (7) If you really knew me, you would know my             Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

    His Words are certainly a moral guide but clearly that is not the purpose of the Gospels.   Worf, where did you attend seminary that you have these ideas? 

    Jesus said in John 14 that if you love Him you will obey Him.  Are you once again going to pick and choose what you will follow and what you won't?  Am I to believe that when you say--- out of all of what our Lord Jesus said and did that the only thing I am to get from Him was to love God and treat others as myself?  Four Gospels and that's all you got?  I believe you missed a few things.

    And Worf, once again you have demeaned the Father by saying He is not the Judge!  Good grief Worf, if the Father--God-- is not the ultimate authority-- who is? Am I to seek the approval of....who....Worf?  Who do you live for? I live to serve our precious Lord.   Who is your compass?  Mine, is the Holy Spirit.

    Worf, maybe that is the problem here.  In order for you or anyone to have a true understanding of God, Jesus, the bible, one must be sealed with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit dwells in the believer.  One who believes that Jesus was who He said was and that He took on himself--the sins of the world.  That Jesus is our atonement.  Someone once said : atonement or at one with God....Jesus paid the penalty(death) for our sins--he conquered death through the resurrection.  In doing so-- through Him our relationship with God is complete.  In fact, on the cross, Jesus said, "It is finished" or tetelesty (sp)--"Paid in full."  Believing--that we are all sinners--that Jesus paid the penalty for our sin--saying you believe and want to change your ways to reflect that of God.  God then seals the believer with the Holy Spirit.  God himself, comes to *dwell* in us.  At that point our lives will change.  The bible speaks to us in a new way and our desires begin to reflect that of our Lord.  Salvation....and when we come to the end of our lives and stand before God.  He sees us as He sees His Son...perfect and without sin.  Heaven is the gift of God!  (Romans 6: 23 )  "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

    Please at least consider what the scriptures say---what God says. 

     
  • LtCmdrWorf1 said on May 02, 2008....
    First of all The Bible is what it is.  According to you and those who believe as you so you do't get to pick and choose what to believe. If you read correctly what I said was God WILL be the judge, not you, and not me. I suggest you read more carefully. It says in Luke 16 that  you have Moses and the prophets. According to that Jesus is telling us that we cannot ignore the old.  What I'm comparing are apples and apples.  Peace and Long Life

    Love Worf  
  • pickersplock said on May 02, 2008....
    We know that the Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew.
    We don't know, at least most of us don't, what complexities of linguistics existed at the time.
     
     
    So for anyone to claim to be an expert on biblical verse, is quite ridiculous.
    If you read the various translations, you will find that there can be entirely different meanings derived from biblical verse, depending on the religion doing the translation.
     
    We tend to forget also, that man wrote the bible to begin with.
     
    There are probably those here, who will not like what I'm saying right now,
    but I feel an obligation to speak.
     
    The most glaring example of differences in translation is timshel; which may be translated as;
     
    thou shalt
    or
    thou mayest.
     
    That being said, I doubt if they ask for your ID card at heaven's gate.
  • LtCmdrWorf1 said on May 02, 2008....
    Pickers,

    HAHAHA, I think you're onto something. This is one of my points, thought I don't think I have spoken on it before.  Some of the Old and New Testament historians that I have had the honor to take classes with have said in no uncertain terms that some passages in the Bible have been mis-translated.  From what I understand of history this was sometimes done as the means to an end.  Many people don't know or understand how or why the Bible was put together in the fashion that it was in the first place.  They have no idea what happened in the 6th century; why Constantine adopted Christianity or anything else.  They just know that someone said this is "The word of God" and that was good enough for them.  Me, I don't think you can get at the truth until you have all the pieces of the puzzle.  I don't think anyone has a monopoly on the truth.  And as you say there are many different translations and versions of the Bible.  I wonder why that is? Peace and Long Life

    Love Worf        
  • pickersplock said on May 02, 2008....
    Ah, East of Eden should be required reading for everyone!
     
  • LtCmdrWorf1 said on May 02, 2008....
    Pickers,

    That's an interesting read.  What made you think of it?  Peace and Long Life

    Love Worf
  • Emarldeyez said on May 03, 2008....
    okay you two....the problem here is neither of you consider the bible to be the word of God.  Since that is the premise you are starting with, nothing I say will make a difference.  This is the an age old problem.  For you to adhere  to the teachings of Jesus means you must  admit that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior.  Pride is a terrible thing when it comes between you and your eternity.  I have seen this numerous times.   It always, always saddens me. 

    For those of you who read Worf's blog....please understand that he is not telling you the truth.  Please don't continue to read his explanations with any sense that he has knowledge from a theological  stand point.  Anyone who would tell you that the bible isn't applicable for you or is out of date and meant for someone else and not you, isn't saying what God wants you to know. 

    Find out for yourself.  Start with the book of John and just read the bible for yourself. 

    Worf, you'll answer one day and please considered yourself informed.  You won't be able to say you didn't know. 
  • silverwhisper said on May 03, 2008....
    o good grief, an honest-to-goodness, dyed-in-the-wool fundamentalist?

    if you ask me, fundamentalism is for the birds. :>

    ed
  • Emarldeyez said on May 03, 2008....
    Well silver at least I know what I believe and will testify to it. If I'm wrong about my belief, I have nothing to loose. If you and those in your boat are wrong......you have everything to loose. I think I'll stay where I am. I'm in the win-win place.
  • silverwhisper said on May 03, 2008....
    ah, pascal's wager...it's an oldie but goodie. :>

    ed
  • LtCmdrWorf1 said on May 03, 2008....
    Emerald,

    Hers' the Problem: The Bible is the Word of God, right?  So what about all of Gods words that are not in the Bible?  What about all the books of Eden, All the Apocryphal  books?  are not these the word of God also?  You see the problem is that men wrote the words in the Bible; men choose  which of those words would be included in the Bible;  men want me to believe that the Bible is the only word of God period. I don't buy it.  The Bible is not the whole truth, bu there is truth in the Bible.  Peace and Long Life

    Love Worf
  • pickersplock said on May 03, 2008....
    Worf, if I had to choose one book as my all time favorite, East of Eden would be it!
    I also wonder sometimes;
    Jesus said , He who believeth in me.........."
     
    Did he mean believe that I exist, believe in what I teach, or believe that I am the son of God, or believe that I am God?
  • LtCmdrWorf1 said on May 03, 2008....
    Pickers,

    "I am the resurrection and the life he who believes in me will live even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"  that is John 11:25-26.  You know it's very interesting that you would ask me what I think it means.  What I think doesn't matter.  What you think is what matters. 

    See this is the problem I have: My faith is not yours nor yours mine.  I have a question for you, Have you read the whole chapter to see the context in which it was written?  Jesus has come to raise his friend Lazarus from the dead; to give him new life. Start from there.  Peace and Long Life

    Love Worf
  • pickersplock said on May 04, 2008....
    Ah, but the problem is, which bible I choose...................yes, I have read and been taught .........and I'm still not sure, but I'm learning toward, what I teach.
     
    I found this quite interesting;
     
    I also found the different words used in Psalms 23:3 to be quite interesting;
     
    How different it is to lead rather than guide, not to mention  the subtle differences between restores, renews, and refreshes?
  • LtCmdrWorf1 said on May 04, 2008....
     

    Hey Pickers,

     

    Go to Biblegateway.com and read “The Message” version.  I always find it interesting.  I think you will too.  Peace and Long Life

     

    Love Worf 
  • pickersplock said on May 04, 2008....
    Very nice!
    I think it's just great when I find another searcher, instead of a know it all.  LOL 
  • LtCmdrWorf1 said on May 04, 2008....
    Pickers,

    In my experience we all learn from each other.  You know that "No man is an island unto himself" thing : ) Peace and Long Life Pickers

    I'll see you in the morning
    Love Worf
  • Emarldeyez said on May 06, 2008....
    In response to Worf's "So what about..." questions toward noncanonical books. Please see: http://www.carm.org/lost/intro_noncanonical.htm

    www.Carm.org  is a Christian apologetics web site, very useful for all the questions and or opinions being spoken of. Most of your questions and comments require more then what I am able to post here. Not to mention how one question leads to another then another...which is is extremely exciting! CARM is a great site with tons of useful information and will answer your questions. Seek and Enjoy! If for some reason you are not able to find an answer to a question, please let me know and I'll be glad to help you.

    Silver: Pascal died a Christian and may I remind you that the "wager" has been around since the late 1600's. Surely that carries some merit for you.

    As for the remainder of Worf's statements toward me: I believe the Bible is the inspired, inerrant Word of God. Period! I think Martin Luther said it best, "Unless I am convinced by proofs from Scriptures or by plain and clear reasons and arguments, I can and will not retract, for it is neither safe nor wise to do anything against conscience. Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen."
  • pickersplock said on May 06, 2008....
    Thanks, Worf!
    You totally rock!
  • silverwhisper said on May 07, 2008....
    emaraldeyez: the heart of pascal's wager isn't about understanding though: it's about fear, and fear is rarely a motivation that yields good, IMX.

    ed
  • LtCmdrWorf1 said on May 07, 2008....
    Emerald,

    you know I really don't need a web site filled with someone else's  interpretation of what they believe Jesus meant.  I can read.  Now, If you want to believe what it says on http://www.carm.org/lost/intro_noncanonical.htm  that's fine. See I know something that your Th.d  doesn't mention, and that is when the bible was put together compromises had to be made.  The books in the bible are the books that the council at Nicaea chose, and not all the bishops in attendance  agreed that's why some translations of the Bible are smaller, and some bigger.  so Please don't ask me to read somebody else's research do your own, then talk to me.  Looks  like Dr. harper could use an interpreters Bible : ) Peace and Long Life

    Love Worf 


  • Emarldeyez said on May 07, 2008....

    Worf, again.....your god is too small.  My God used the council to put together the bible He wanted.  As you read.....the other books were not even considered scripture.  My guess, you haven't even read the books you refer to because if you had, even you should be able to tell the difference for yourself.  But then you don't believe the bible is the word of God nor do you believe what's in the bible.  So, you choose to remain unreachable and unteachable.  It is your choice. 

    As for my research....darling you haven't a clue to whom you speak and we shall speak no more.     

  • Emarldeyez said on May 07, 2008....

    silver, I have nothing to fear.  It doesn't surprise me that you would see it that way.  Your choice.

     

    Just FYI:  Historically, Pascal's Wager was groundbreaking as it charted new territory in probability theory, was one of the first attempts to the use of the concept of infinity, marked the first formal use of decision theory, and anticipated the future philosophies of pragmatism and voluntarism.

  • silverwhisper said on May 07, 2008....
    emarald: those things may well be so, but the truth is that it's bad philosophy, just like the ontological pro-theism argument.

    ed
  • Emarldeyez said on May 08, 2008....

    Good grief silver, who are you trying to impress with your fancy text?  You've allowed the world to mold your thinking.  That is *your choice.*  I'll keep trusting God, much more favorable.

     

  • silverwhisper said on May 08, 2008....
    if you studied either theology or philosophy, none of what i've said should be at all foreign to you. the wikipedia article on the ontological argument isn't bad, if you're interested.

    ed
  • Emarldeyez said on May 08, 2008....

    Yes darling I have studied, extensively; that has nothing to do with my statement which only shows your desire for argument.  Again, your choice. Enjoy your "philosopy,"  I'll keep trusting God, you keep trusting the world.  It will not serve you well but that's your choice. 

    Jesus said, "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."

    Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. 1John 5:5  

    Yup, I'm trusting God. 
     

  • silverwhisper said on May 08, 2008....
    you may have studied, but not well. how can you claim to have studied but be ignorant of descartes? truly you astound me.

    btw, it takes a bit more confidence to pull off dismissive.

    ed
  • Emarldeyez said on May 08, 2008....

    The mind-body distinction?  You're kidding right?  Come on silver, I am discussing God, Salvation, the Bible--not worldly beliefs/philosopy.  You have a worldly mind set and mine is much, much higher.  There is absolutely no comparison.  You are led by self and I am led by the Holy Spirit.  Vastly different perspectives, you must agree.

    As for dismissive....not my intention.  Your intention is very clear.  I will be glad to leave you and worf to your crusade.  

    Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?  1Corinthians 1:20

    The Message that points to Christ on the Cross seems like sheer silliness to those hellbent on destruction, but for those on the way of salvation it makes perfect sense. This is the way God works, and most powerfully as it turns out. It's written, 
       I'll turn conventional wisdom on its head,
       I'll expose so-called experts as crackpots.
    So where can you find someone truly wise, truly educated, truly intelligent in this day and age? Hasn't God exposed it all as pretentious nonsense? Since the world in all its fancy wisdom never had a clue when it came to knowing God, God in his wisdom took delight in using what the world considered dumb—preaching, of all things!—to bring those who trust him into the way of salvation.  1 Corinthians 1:20 The Message 

     

     

  • LtCmdrWorf1 said on May 08, 2008....
    My Goodness are you two still at it : )  Well have fun.  Peace and Long Life

    Love Worf

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