• secretlife said on Apr 02, 2008....

  I think the principal of that school should be fired. 
  I think the 3rd grade teacher should be questioned.
  Charging 8 yr olds as adults?  I'm wondering who the adults are in this situation....
   
  i would bet this is completely blown out of proportion. and it's the adults who should be punished for allowing it to happen to children.
   
  You ever wonder what the differences are between today and our school days?  Yeah we had hyperactive kids and i'm sure Attention deficit kids and most certainly kids with learning disabilities.  But they weren't drugged on a daily basis and then sent to school. 
   
  My son was suspended for 2 days in 3rd grade for bringing his father's pocket knife to school.  He made the mistake of taking it out of his pocket to show a friend.  He didn't open it, didn't use it as a weapon, simply took it to school.
   
  When i went to speak to the pricipal about it, a man who makes 150K, he told me it was POLICY.....i said, but what about common sense?  isn't that your job?  these are children, not gangsters.  to which he replied, he was following policy.
   
   
   
   

• uniquely-ironic said on Apr 02, 2008....

  SL - yeah, they hide behind that policy thing a lot.  I've had a few run ins with school people and the only common denominator I can find is the lack of common sense.  They seem to also have a warped sense of importance that puts them far ahead of the welfare of the student.

• evil_twin said on Apr 02, 2008....

  I honestly don't even know what to think about this. It seems crazy that kids that age would actually go through with something like that for real. But the intent does seem to be there. So how can you not worry that they would have really done something? It happens. I do know that the zero tolerance policies can be taken too far. Like kids getting suspended for bringing pocket knives or a steak knife in their lunch. But in this case, the knife was part of an actual plot to do something.
  
  I think these kids need some serious counseling....
  
  -evil_twin LA
  

• uniquely-ironic said on Apr 02, 2008....

  ET - These kids had their "kit" at the school, but did not actually act out the plot.  Yes, it should be taken seriously, but how can we punish them for this if they did not actually attempt to carry it out?  We don't punish stalkers until they act out.  I agree they need a lot of counseling.

• beyondtheveil said on Apr 02, 2008....

  unique- I don't know what to say about this. All the kids were troubled, but had never been in trouble. If I was running this outfit, I wouldn't even mention avenues of punishment, especially serious avenues until an investigation, which definitely includes the teacher.
  
  I have seen first hand the treatment numerous teachers can dish out to kids with behavioral problems.
  

• uniquely-ironic said on Apr 02, 2008....

  BTV - I agree that discussing punishment before really truly figuring out what happen and why is in poor taste.  I have had teachers that made this plan seem reasonable.  This story is written on the supposition that the teacher was a good person and behaved professionally.

• skald said on Apr 02, 2008....

  I am with you on this. It seems to me like the school has over reacted. Yes, this is all very questionable. You came in on many things and factors, like video games. Yes, times have changed but have they changed all that much. Ant children, children. Seems like the school was handling them like adults. 

• uniquely-ironic said on Apr 02, 2008....

  skald - I'm glad you said that.  I guess I was a little short of actually saying it.  Yes, I believe that children are children and need to be disciplined on a childhood level.

• Trinov said on Apr 02, 2008....

  Hi, I read a few accounts of this and cannot make it out.
  
  We've all been children and we all probably had at least one gargoyal (I can't spell this time of night) for a teacher or principal )(for years I day-dreamed of murdering my Junior Hi principal with a very dull knife-she was a sicko and should never have been near a school zone--why do they have political appointees for educational jobs?)
  
  So we can't rule out that the teacher is at least part of the problem, ditto the principal and the counselors etc.And third graders are below the age of logic (any teachers out there?) Piaget said that 'concrete logic' usually kicks in around 7-9 and true logic, if at all, after 15. What does this mean--no understanding of consequences, no understanding of something done on purpose, or by accident etc. Which is why no regular criminal law should be applied to anyone under 17.
  
  I was a teacher on both sides of the Atlantic and I worked in a couple of 'tough' schools and with learning disabled kids etc. I was usually loved by the kids-- but not by the administration, for I did not give a damn about 'policy' but about the souls of the kids, for each child is a creation of the Creator and each one is unique and has a specific roll to play in this play down here. And the roll of the teacher is to help the kid find his life script and tools.
  
  So the first thing to do is the find out what the hell was going on in that classroom and in that school, and also what the homes are like of those children, are they homes of abuse, of drinking, of no education and lots of violent TV and videos etc. Kids learn from what they see, hear and experience and have no real judgement of their own. (that's why they're small for a long time, Gorillas I think are full height by 8 years old).

• uniquely-ironic said on Apr 02, 2008....

  Trinov - yes, this story makes no good sense.  I was hoping it wasn't just me questioning the other "players" in the story. (teacher, principal, parents)  I know and have had 3rd graders and this just doesn't make sense.

• Trinov said on Apr 02, 2008....

  Hi, I remember being a camp counselor to a group of eight year old girls in the states and they could be cute and sassy one moment, babies the next, and once I turned my back on the campfire for two minutes to prepare the hot dogs and they were jumping over the fire! That was the last campfire I agreed to have that year!
  
  It just dosen't make sense to me that kids that age could plan anything that elaborate, right?

• uniquely-ironic said on Apr 03, 2008....

  Trinov - 3rd graders aren't known for their follow through in a lot of places.  I did the camp counselor thing too and at about that age they're very mercurial.  I'm surprised the teacher didn't see this coming.

• nytquill17 said on Apr 03, 2008....

  I came across an article from Newsweek (link) that I thought had a very good take on it all.
  
  At that age, no child is really capable of sound reasoning or impulse control.  I've had teachers I daydreamed about lashing out against, and if I'd been a slightly more violent person and had encouragement from friends, who knows?  I think that's why Lord of the Flies is such a classic - we're all born violent and it's only the grownups in our lives teaching us about "socially acceptable" that kept us from acting on it.
  
  Add to that, these are Special Ed kids, so kids with developmental (including psychological and emotional) difficulties and delays - so even less impulse control and reasoning - and kids from difficult home situations where they aren't getting the guidance they need to deal with their emotions or to make decisions.  And who knows what's been going on in that classroom?
  
  I'm definitely creeped out by this, and I'm glad they were found out before they could carry through.  But I can sort of get my head around how it could happen.
  

• Trinov said on Apr 03, 2008....

  I taught third grade a couple of times, and they were very bright kids, and we had projects etc, but planning was not their forté .
  
  So my question is : was there some older child, or were there older children, or some weird adult involved in this plan of attack?
  
  I'm not saying that kids that age can't remember and hold a grudge, for I still remember that I was angry at a nursey school teacher for years. But I'm a very aggressive type and was raised with a saying like "the intelligent man likes his vengence cold", but still I never did anything. So for them to go from a fantasy to an elaborate planned action does not seem real to me. There is some other human factor involved here.
  
  I worked once in a place where the psychologist was an ex-cop. He used to say that the first question they were taught to ask about any crime was : who benefits?
  
  Is there some adult in the school or the community who would have 'benefited from such an attack on that teacher? Be it revenge or some other motive.

• uniquely-ironic said on Apr 03, 2008....

  Nytquill - excellent article.  I'm disappointed that they didn't address the fact that the teacher may have also contributed to the issue.  Rather it side steps the issue blaming under funded schools.

  Trinov - all questions that I hope they find answers for.  There are a lot of information that is either being withheld or ignored.

• nytquill17 said on Apr 03, 2008....

  I think he's very careful not to blame anything or anyone that's not obviously at fault since he says right at the beginning that all we have now is "he said/she said."  Towards the end he does mention what the teacher should have done, and then says that she "may have done all these things"...leaving the reader room to fill in that she also may not have done all these things.
  
  But that's a far cry from actually bringing up the subject, I agree.  I would be really surprised if it came out that the teacher was pure and blameless, to be honest.  Something had to set them off, and I find it hard to believe that these kids were so unbalanced that just asking him to get off a chair could be the trigger.

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