• D6fer said on Mar 19, 2008....

  so....let me get this straight.....so if they knock off a steer for me to eat....it stops breathing and drinking right? Pass the beef! ;p

• silverwhisper said on Mar 20, 2008....

  it isn't just meat-eating that's problematic. everything humans do has an environmental footprint. eating vegetables? most people can't afford organic (costs more), so pesticides will still poison the earth. transporting those hundreds of tons of grains and vegetables consumed still chews up oil and processing them for market has its own attendant costs in both resources as well.
  
  vegetation is also a much less efficient way to nourish the human body than meat: it's why meat in its many forms is prized. you need protein to build muscle mass, need the amino acids that are uniquely contained in meat, need the calcium that comes from dairy for good skeletal development.
  
  yes, most of us need to eat less meat than we probably do. but there's a very good reason why we're omnivores.
  
  ed

• D6fer said on Mar 20, 2008....

  you take that back! [kobe beef smacks ed] ....sorry about the bbq sauce! ;p

• silverwhisper said on Mar 21, 2008....

  o man...kobe beef...
  
  [pork tenderloin-pokes d6]

• D6fer said on Mar 21, 2008....

  lol [fires up bbq]

• bloc said on Mar 21, 2008....

  @ed
  I think you are missing the key point. meat is far less effecient than vegetables because you have to grow tons of vegetables to feed the animals that get turned into meat. Those vegetables get tons of pesticides and get shipped across the globe just like the ones eaten by humans. The key point is that we grow about 12 times more vegetables than we need to because it takes about 12 pounds of vegetables to produce 1 pound of meat. Eating the vegetables directly is far more efficient, requires far fewer pesticides, and far less shipping.
  
  "you need protein to build muscle mass, need the amino acids that are uniquely contained in meat, need the calcium that comes from dairy for good skeletal development."
  
  Protein is easy to get, and we do not need amino acids that are unique to meat. I'd like to go into your third point in detail. We do need calcium, so do cows. You are assuming that we need dairy to get calcium AND that cows somehow magically produce calcium. The truth is that cows need calcium too, and they don't produce it on their own. Any idea where they get it? Yup, vegetables. They get it from eating grass.
  
  Here's the kicker, most factory farmed cows do not eat grass! Do you know where they get calcium? The factory farms give them calcium vitamins. I kid you not, most cows that you eat would not have calcium because they don't eat grass any longer, and the factories give them vitamins. Of course, we can just as easily get calcium by eating vegetables with calcium.
  
  I implore you to look into this situation a bit. A diet centered around meat is easily the most environmentally destructive activity of the western lifestyle AND it's the source of many of our chronic diseases. This doesn't mean that you need to be a vegetarian.
  
  
  

• silverwhisper said on Mar 22, 2008....

  bloc: and you in turn appear to be missing my key point--that you need a proportionately larger mass of vegetable matter to get the equivalent amount of sustenance that is provided in meat. an appeal to size of our environmental footprints is only meaningful if it controls for that disparity. plus, i'm curious where an equivalent concentration of amino acids can be found if not in meat.
  
  plus, what other sources of calcium would you suggest a person consume if not dairy products?
  
  ed

• bloc said on Mar 22, 2008....

  "that you need a proportionately larger mass of vegetable matter to get the equivalent amount of sustenance that is provided in meat. "
  
  
  This isn't true. The biggest problem in the western diet is over consumption. High meat diets are not only bad for the environment, they are bad for your health. This has been found in repeated studies. This book is a great read for anyone interested in diet, and the author is not a vegetarian.
  
  
  "plus, what other sources of calcium would you suggest a person consume if not dairy products?"
  
  
  So many vegetables have calcium that it's impoossible to provide a comprehensive list. This is from the mayo clinic.
  
  
  "Calcium. This mineral helps build and maintain strong teeth and bones. ... dark green vegetables, such as spinach, turnip and collard greens, kale, and broccoli, are good sources of calcium."
  
  
  Here is a more comprehensive list. Of all the nutrients that require attention in a vegetarian diet, calcium isn't one of them.

• D6fer said on Mar 22, 2008....

  yeah, but how do they taste with bbq sauce on them? ;p

• bloc said on Mar 22, 2008....

  i hear cocaine makes you feel good too ;)

• D6fer said on Mar 22, 2008....

  is that good on veggies? lol

• D6fer said on Mar 22, 2008....

  If you recall, I tried the vegetarian thing last year once.....I think I made it about a week....then the little carnivore inside me, beat the livin shit out of the little herbivore and made him his bitch! 

• bloc said on Mar 22, 2008....

  yeah, i remember. I'm not really saying that everyone should become a vegetarian, just that we shouldn't eat as much meat. It's bad for us and the environment. 

• D6fer said on Mar 22, 2008....

  it's bad for my waistline....so is cake....I am convinced sugar is definitely a drug....a highly addictive one.....and from what I understand, there is an amino acid in meat that humans crave....I thought it was called tanami or something like that, but when I google it, that doesn't come up....so obviously, I have the name wrong.

• bloc said on Mar 22, 2008....

  i crave chocolate coffee things from places like starbucks :/

• D6fer said on Mar 22, 2008....

  starbucks? arrgg!....I work with independent coffee shops, starbucks is a dirty word around here!....although, I have heard they are hurtin for certain right now.

• bloc said on Mar 22, 2008....

  the reason I don't go to independent coffee shops is that I don't drink coffee with the exception of blended chocolate things :) Also, I am lactose intolerant so I need to get my drinks with soy milk or something. And I much prefer espresso to plain coffee. Unfortunately there aren't any independent coffee shops close to where I work or live that I know of that have drinks I like.
  
  edit:
  big companies like starbucks have their upsides at times. For example. starbucks does not use milk from cows that have been injected with hormones.
  

• D6fer said on Mar 22, 2008....

  there is a hempmilk out there now....that seems to be catching on pretty good....I don't care for it, but I don't like soy either....I know some women have trouble drinking soy....something to do with making them lactate? ...So it's a good alternative for them I guess.....there are non-dairy blended drinks out there, and most independents will usually have at least one.....starbucks does provide consistency from store to store....but coffee has gone far beyond them....roasters are constantly improving upon roasting techniques and coming up with new blends that provide different tastes that you won't find in a starbucks.....it's kind of like fine wines or beer, in that way....it's always a neat experience to find something new that tastes great.
  

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