• phoeby said on Mar 18, 2008....

  because god isn't out there, he/she/it is within each of us. God is 'evolving' through us and has left things up to us. so it's our decision what we do and how we do it. as far as natural disasters go, my opinion is that they are not 'caused' or controlled by god or any other entity. they just are. also many say that the energies of the earth are changing lately leading up to 2012. dunno.
  
  
  love phoeby

• Mamie said on Mar 18, 2008....

  Hi papaJack, I believe that God cries with us as these things happen in our lives. He does not relish in our suffering...but if you read the second verse of the serenity prayer, you read that suffering is a pathway to peace....I believe that we often create our own suffering and that we grow and learn by struggling through it. I also think that natural disasters can be avenues for people to step up and be the natural givers and lovers that they were born to be....what do you think?

• silverwhisper said on Mar 18, 2008....

  theologically: the problem of evil exists for one reason and one reason alone--humans possess finite knowledge and finite perspective, unable to see the ends of every path, whereas god possesses infinite knowledge and infinite perspective, able to see the ends of every path and every twist and turn along them.
  
  my church's former minister liked to say that the problem of evil also helps give us greater capacity to empathize with others who are hurting, so we can provide such succor and comfort as we are each capable of doing when we are at our best.
  
  that's a paraphrase, really, but the larger general concept is there.
  
  JMHO.
  
  ed

• quietone said on Mar 18, 2008....

  papajack ~ oh, I have often asked those questions of "why".  God gave us free will as part of the deal.  It is also said that the weak shall inherit the earth.  there is this one verse that always has stuck in my head that someone said to me years ago  - Deuteronomy 29:29   I don't know why bad things happen to good people to be honest.  But I do know through the bad things that have happened  to me I have learned and would not be where I am today.  I would also like to know your comment on this too.  :) good post, thanks for making me think

• crybabylu said on Mar 18, 2008....

  I always take comfort in the scripture Romans8:28.

  "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to his purpose."

• crybabylu said on Mar 18, 2008....

  I just posted something to my blog, JR, that I think gives a little perspective on what you are asking here.

   

  "WE Live By Faith!"...

• andora said on Mar 18, 2008....

  please refer to www.pangasm.org where I have given free access to my life's work because the conversation needs to shift into a new light. I feel as though this information should be free so I flew to Israel shortly after the war with Jordan (2006) and hitch-hiked the entire country handing out free copies of my book 'pangasm' because simply understanding the principle of pangasm neutralizes violence. we have many more options than we were ever told about and I so desire to share this.

• bloc said on Mar 18, 2008....

  The only adequate answer I've found is that there is no personal God. 

• GracefullyGrowing said on Mar 18, 2008....

  Because humans don't learn well without suffering first.  Sometimes, even when we learn "it" (whatever it is) we forget after a while, and then must suffer the SAME things again. 
   
  ~Grace~

• andora said on Mar 18, 2008....

  suffering is optional

• wombat said on Mar 18, 2008....

  Ask myself these questions all the time, but have no answers.  I will look for them here.  I guess that's a start.

• ALIENated said on Mar 18, 2008....

  
  My answer went a little long ...
  
  

  http://www.soulcast.com/post/show/119620/Blessed-Are-The-Meek#

• wakingharmony said on Mar 19, 2008....

  I was thinking of this Question just last night also with tornado warnings... And thinking how all the suffering is really on those of us left behind.  It is said that he will return in a huge cloud to claim us but the bible has been rewritten so many times.....what if it isnt painful at all....studies have said of those that have died that it was peaceful. I was there when my father passed from lung cancer and believe me......I felt his peace! not a struggle for a last breath like I would have thought.......he just didn't take another breath and he was asleep.He had been awake about an hour earlier looked at me and looked across the room pointed and said "Mama smiling. I smiled back at him and said yes Daddy you go and be with grandma we will be fine... I kissed him he kissed me we said I love yous and he went back to sleep....... I knew he was going, I looked at the clock as I took a bowl to the kitchen it was 12:19 am Oct 18,2002 He took a breath (I looked at the clock) walked to the head of his bed and put my hand on his chest and stroked it a few times (didnt want any one else to get all wound up and excited) His chest never rose again but he was smiling I was smiling .....he was really hot with fever thought. but he was peaceful. Everyone was waiting for me to break down..... they even thought I had flipped.... but I was so happy. I saw the covers gently fluff It was the most wonderful thing I ever had happen to me.  I know it sounds weird...but when you see proof yourself there is A "God" what ever you choose to call it it does something to you. So God Bless You all.   back in older times people just died.... there was no kemo all that is mans choice........and a whole other subject.

• GrapeKoolaid said on Mar 19, 2008....

  According to some, desire causes suffering.  Eliminate desire and eliminate suffering. 
  
  That's just one school of thought. 
  

• papajack said on Mar 19, 2008....

  Then, much to Job's astonishment, God speaks to him from a whirlwind and asks, "Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? . . . Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?" Job's ego is getting its comeuppance. What hubris to think we can know the divine plan and, with our limited sight that sees "but through a glass darkly," as the Apostle Paul put it, create a blueprint for God to obey.

  God goes on to enumerate all his powers and to speak of both the majesty and terror of nature at great length. Job is essentially speechless, and we are left to imagine how he was affected by this powerful meeting, based on the strength of just a few lines that he utters in response to God. His simple comment, "Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know," says volumes about how it is impossible to comprehend the infinite with a finite mind.

  I will elaborate more on this a little later, but wanted to give you something here to chew upon, and stimulate your own minds and hearts to see the infinite wisdom of God as is told in the struggles of Job...

• wakingharmony said on Mar 19, 2008....

  Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know!   I love this! it is at a level  to which I will always look for more , like the never ending circle. Every time you find the wonder of him and you think you will never again experience such joy ...there is more....always more....

• Fallen_from_Grace said on Mar 20, 2008....

  gracefully... Totally agree
  
  as for the question of suffering...I think it is best answered like this:
  
  There is enough food produced on the planet for everyone alive to have 3 nutritious meals every day.  So why are some people starving?  Because other people are greedy.
  
  The earth is an abundant place, but the greedy selfish people hoard its bounty out of fear and a desire to control others.
  
  If the divine intervened (striking down the evil types) it would require that humanity be ruled by fear of an angry god's wrath (ie. if you do this I will strike you down)...rather than be called to follow after a loving god's compassion.  If the divine caused food to mystically spring up from arid wastelands, then the greedy would just claim that food for themselves as well.
  
  the suffering of others is *our* chance to intervene (to let the divine flow through us, to be the instrument of divine action and the channel of divine love) and alleviate the suffering we see.  If *we* choose to do nothing about the suffering we see, how can we ask why the divine isn't acting?  We aren't willing to allow it!
  

• papajack said on Mar 21, 2008....

  phoeby......you made some good points, you are so right about god being within.etc. thank you.

  Mamie......Amen...thank you.

  ed.......you are right on!  Thank you.

  quietone......good one...Deut 29:29  Thanks.

  cry.....As you know, I love that verse too!

  Andora....Hello, thanks for visiting my blog and making reference of pangasm.org. My wife thinks a lot of your book.  She thinks it is great that you are making it available to people who can get some good out of it.  Thank you.

  bloc.....I truly wish you and I could sit down and just talk.  Thank you.

  Grace......Sad but true.  Thank you.

  Andora.....So true, we can go through whatever is before us, it is up to us if we perceive it as suffering or not.

  wombat......You know more than you think you know, I would guess.  Thank you.

  Alienated.......My wife and I discussed your post and she was wondering why you always have to take it in those areas.  Her comments were "That's so Alien". Thanks for commenting.

  Waking.......I love it when God touches us in a personal way through different experiences like the one you shared.  Thank you.

  Grape......Interesting concept.....thank you.

  Waking.........true, so true.  thanks.

  Fallen......... If the world would work together to help one another there would be a lot less suffering.  Thank you for your comments.

   

   

   

• papajack said on Mar 21, 2008....

  Alienated......What I forgot to tell you is that I need to visit your blog more to get more of an idea of how and why you say some of the things you do.  I am not in disagreement, but sometimes you can get more accomplished with honey rather than with vinegar.  If you know what I mean?

• bloc said on Mar 21, 2008....

  but alien has vinegar coming out of his pores ;)

• andora said on Mar 21, 2008....

  thanks for the kind words papajack. it warms my heart to know people are reading pangasm, especially if teens read it. I'm so glad I'm not a teenager in today's environment - I feel for families everywhere and have felt nearly helpless about getting this info out to the populace. And, I know that for each person that considers the message of pangasm, the world gets a little less hopeless and a lot more expansive. I wish you and your family the best.

• TheNakedProfessor said on Mar 22, 2008....

  In order to achieve omniscience consciousness must experience every possible variation of events, including all good and all bad. That's what we're doing now. See my post 
  Forget Religion: THE INFINITY THREAD

• crybabylu said on Mar 23, 2008....

  Alas, I come over to my husband's blog and what do I find here but that the"mysterious Naked Professor" has paid his blog a visit?

  So, I played your little game for awhile and followed your links and listened and read your nonsensical post and I concluded one thing.

  I remember Alien calling you the "Nutty Professor", and here I am agreeing with him yet another time........I think "The Nutty Professor" suits you much better than the naked.....but of course you have already been there and done that, and now you are off seeking out new "spaces" to fit into......tooladoo.....

• wakingharmony said on Mar 23, 2008....

  Thanks papa and Hi {{{{cry}}}

• TheNakedProfessor said on Mar 24, 2008....

   

  So you disagree with the 30-some commenters on my post who enjoyed it and thought that it was kinda cool?

   

  What the heck do you have against me, cry? I don't recall meeting your judgmental ass ever before. My impression was that you were a benign, nice person. Now I see you're creepy kind of like Hottips.

   

  As for Alien, the right-winged curmudeon of paranoia, he's in his own world.

   

  As for me, I am not seeking anything. I was here before you. Why are you picking fights with strangers? Maybe that's why God permits suffering. Payback for stupid offenses against strangers. Obviously you're no angel.

   

  Idiocy.

   

  You probably couldn't follow The Infinity Thread so you got upset. Boo hoo.

   

  Don't worry, I'm sure hubby will delete.

   

   

• crybabylu said on Mar 24, 2008....

  I don't have anything against you, Professor, I thought I was giving a cute summation of your post, Jr & I were reading his blog, and I really thought you were trying to be funny, so  I said "let me answer it, please let me answer it"  so he let me answer it.

  I didn't know until now that It was a serious post!  Sorry,  I will read it again, this time I will read the comments too, maybe that will help me get the jest of it.  And I don't mind saying, it was a bit over my head. But, I really didn't know it was serious...I just thought it was kind of food for thought!

  I bet JR never lets me answer any of his comments again now.  Since I messed up on this one.

• TheNakedProfessor said on Mar 24, 2008....

  Oh and by the way, I'll try forming my opinions about others based on ALIENated's observations - THAT should be productive. Why let people speak for themselves?
   
  Ooo, there's a withdrawal of nastiness. Okay. Back to square one.
   
  Hi, I'm TNP. Nice (?) to meet you.
   
  BTW - you'll know when I'm being funny.
   

• crybabylu said on Mar 24, 2008....

  Hello!  I'm crybabylu, and it is nice to meet you.  Now, I will get off my husband's blog and leave it to him...

• papajack said on Mar 25, 2008....

  Everyone......I really appreciate your interest in the post, but I really don't know anymore to add here.  I think a lot of people would agree it is a subject for the philosophers and theologians to figure out.

  Thanks again for stopping by and reading and commenting.

  I would like to take the time to personally welcome Andora and TNP to my blog, I hope to hear more from you as time goes by.

• TheNakedProfessor said on Mar 25, 2008....

  Thanks PJ - sorry I went ballistic on your woman. ;)

• papajack said on Mar 25, 2008....

  TNP......I think your response was appropriate.  People need feedback else they don't know how their comments are taken.  She and I give each other lots of feedback!  Ha, least you got a computer screen between. Guess I had better not say too much, huh? Ha!  thanks for commenting....JR.

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