so now that we've all adjusted for it (at least here in the US, where we turned the clocks forward one hour saturday night/early sunday morning)--i really gotta wonder how useful this is now that we're spending more of the year using this adjusted time than otherwise.
seriously, aren't we spending millions of dollars each year, twice a year, to tell everyone when we do it? is it really providing anything remotely resembling a benefit? b/c honestly, i'm just not seeing an upside to this weird practice.
i think that we should end daylight savings time. i know that originally it was implemented to help make things safer--but in this day and age, can it really be said to be saving lives? isn't it more likely that any such "savings" are offset by the mass confusion twice/year?
maybe it's just me, but i just don't see much purpose to it.
ed
silverwhisper posted on Mar 10, 2008
| views: 577
Comments
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pickersplock said on Mar 10, 2008....
I thought you might enjoy reading this. Benjamin Franklin's essay in Journal de Paris, about his idea for saving money on candles. -
GracefullyGrowing said on Mar 10, 2008....
I agree. It's just no longer needed. Why do humans hold on to things just because "we've always done it this way!"?? I think I'll write an essay about common sense, and see if it takes hold for 224 years. ;~P~Grace~ -
skald said on Mar 10, 2008....
I am glad to say that this has not been done here since in my early teens and I remember how I hated this time change. No I see no reason to do this. -
beyondtheveil said on Mar 10, 2008....
Ed- I have a book on the history of DST ( the official word is saving, not savings) and the story is very complicated in this country. Around the turn of the century, the East was "chopped up" and it played the devil with train schedules, among other things.
A lot of the blame for having DST has been placed on farmers and the opposite is true. At one time, it was started in New York City for the stock exchange to give them a head start against the London stock exchange. In other areas it was started by golfers for an extra hour of playing time.
Any way you look at it, its stupid. It is an absurdity to have a country put up with. The big thing now is to have it for energy savings. More stupidity. DST is a thorn in my butt and always has been.
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quietone said on Mar 10, 2008....
Well that settles it... we all should move to Arizona!! I really don't see much sense in it either. But if we had to stick to one, I hope it is this one. I like having it lighter longer. -
the_infernal_optimist said on Mar 10, 2008....
Daylight savings hops always leave me in a muddle. :-p I don't like the whole thing. It seems stupid to artificially jog time back and forth to make it fit the day better.
~Infernal
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LtCmdrWorf1 said on Mar 10, 2008....
Hey Ed,I'm not sure,but I think it is a WWII remnant. In any case, I'm with you can we just cut it out, and stay on standard time like everyone else on the planet. Peace and Long LIfeLove Worf -
namyogrl said on Mar 10, 2008....
Ed, I think AZ doesnt do this - maybe there are some smart people out there in the desert. -
CreativeWoman said on Mar 10, 2008....
It does get a little confusing sometimes. However, I do enjoy the longer evenings that the time change creates. I know they would get here sooner or later, but I do like them sooner. I'm probably the odd one out on this one. :-)
CW
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PassionTraveler said on Mar 10, 2008....
I had heard that the purpose for extending it over previous years is to create more daylight hours to minimize energy expenditures, more light, less need for lights turned on.
But I don't know if that is official or just rumor.
PT
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Madd-Shame said on Mar 10, 2008....
Franklin's idea was to stop people from using too many candles by "shifting the day" if you like. However comical the idea was at the beginning, it did kind of make sense if people lit less candles. But it was a fruitless idea since just changing the clocks does not affect nightfall.
Fast forward to modern day and the use of electricity. If we only used power after a specific time in the evening, it would make sense but in the modern world, we actually draw the curtains during the day and turn on the light. Besides, light, the only thing that a majority of us can gain from the sun, is the least consumer of power in out homes.
Maybe we need to watch television during the day and use solar power. Our government is redundant and this is only one way to show how.
Madd Shame.
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TinSoldier said on Mar 10, 2008....
I don't really have a problem with DST. Maybe we should just make DST permanent. Or even better -- split the difference!
All I know is that it can be depressing to go to work in the dark and then leave work in the dark during the winter time. And since I don't smoke any more I don't usually go outside during the workday.
Fortunately the days are already getting longer.
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truthsayer said on Mar 10, 2008....
I think it's dumb. Really dumb.I loved living in AZ, btw...this was one my favorite things about the state.truth -
dailyachesandpains said on Mar 10, 2008....
Yeah, I was an Arizonian once too...the only thing I was confused about was not knowing if people back home were 2 or 3 hours ahead. Flying to Cali from PHX, I never knew if we were the same time or not. Hawaii doesn't change their clocks either.There is one small part of North Eastern Arizona that does change their clocks. I think it's part of a Reservation. I thought I heard that Indiana doesn't participate anymore???Let's all just move to Hawaii! :-)Daily -
Eilan said on Mar 10, 2008....
Back in the 60's, our county seat observed DST, but the rest of the county didn't. Or was it the other way around? I wasn't born yet, so I don't remember--I've only heard my mom talk about it. She lived outside of the city, but worked inside the city limits. Nope, no confusion there. *rolleyes*
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CayenneMan said on Mar 11, 2008....
It seems to me that we are sending our children to their school bus stops in the dark. I don't think it's worth the extra risk in that alone. -
silverwhisper said on Mar 11, 2008....
pickers: that was really, really neat--thanks for the link! :>
grace: i know, the force of tradition and inertia are something that i've always considered the second most powerful force in the universe--after murphy's law. :>
skald: ah, i see that you and your countrymen are smarter than the rest of us! :>
beyond: i mentioned that i posted this to my wife and she too mentioned the economies of DST. but goodness, it's still annoying!
quietone: i didn't know until reading your comment that they don't do DST in arizona. i may need to consider moving! :D
infernal: exactly--i resent our screwing up our own concept of time artificially too!
worf: yeah, exactly!
namyogrl: yeah, quietone mentioned the same. maybe if mccain wins the election he'll put a stop to it? :D
CW: well, if we all agreed all the time, wouldn't life be so boring? :>
PT: yeah, that's what i heard, too. last i heard, there was an analysis that said that we spent as much telling people about the change as the energy costs saved, actually.
madd shame: i wonder sometimes if electrical bills cost more for "business hours" use, the way landline phone rates work.
TS: i hear you re: working during the winter and not seeing the sun at all. it blows!
truthsayer: i wasn't aware you'd spent time in AZ before--when was that, if you don't mind my asking?
daily: heh...well, we could move to hawaii, but i'm not so sure how my wallet would feel about that...!
eilan: o man, that's just loopy--scheduling things must've been a nightmare!
cayenneman: you know, that's something i hadn't considered but that's a pretty sensible objection.
ed -
biglove said on Mar 11, 2008....
Forgive me Ed, but I am ignorant to the reasoning behind Daylight Savings...it has never been a subject that I have cared to research, could you explain please? -
TinSoldier said on Mar 11, 2008....
Regarding inertia -- remember that DST at one time was the radical new idea and that people had to overcome inertia to accept it in the first place.I was wondering a bit, how do we define the hours anyway? Not the length of the hour itself but the end of one day, and the beginning and middle of the next? Is the standard either 12 midnight or 12 noon at some part of the world during some part of the year? -
silverwhisper said on Mar 11, 2008....
biglove: there's a few reasons, actually. i understood it was having begun to give farmers more time to get their harvest in. however, beyond suggests it's more about the stock market. me, i'm a tad fuzzy: i just know i don't like it! :D
TS: the end of one day is 11:59 pm, as the minute afterwards is 12:00 am. i'm afraid i don't quite understand. ?
ed -
TinSoldier said on Mar 11, 2008....
Where is the earth's rotation in relation to the sun when it is either 12:00 midnight or 12:00 noon?
Is it defined as either when the sun is in the middle of its arc across the sky (for noon) or halfway between sunset and sunrise (for midnight) on a certain place on the planet at a certain time of year? Or are noon and midnight totally arbitrarily defined? Because all of the other hours would be based on that.
No, I haven't looked up the answer yet myself. Perhaps I will.
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silverwhisper said on Mar 11, 2008....
o! i'm afraid i don't know that, either. if you get the time to look it up, i'd be awfully curious about that myself!
ed -
TinSoldier said on Mar 11, 2008....
Hmm.
Wikipedia says (Emphasis mine):Solar noon is when the sun appears the highest in the sky (nearest zenith), compared to its positions during the rest of the day. It occurs when the Sun is transitting the celestial meridian. This is also the origin of the terms ante meridiem and post meridiem as noted above. The Sun is directly overhead at solar noon at the equator on the equinoxes; at Tropic of Cancer (latitude 23° 26′ 22″ N) on the June solstice; and at Tropic of Capricorn (23° 26′ 22″ S) on the December solstice. Due to the effects of the use of standard time, daylight saving time, and the equation of time, clock noon and solar noon hardly ever coincide.
The opposite of noon is midnight.
Midnight:Midnight is, literally, "the middle of the night." In most systems it is when one day ends and the next begins: when the date changes. Originally midnight was halfway between sunset and dawn, varying according to the seasons.
Solar midnight is that time opposite of solar noon, when the sun is closest to nadir and the night is equi-distant from dusk and dawn. Due to the advent of time zones, which makes time identical across a range of meridians, and daylight saving time it rarely coincides with midnight on a clock, but can be computed on a number of websites that perform solar time calculations. Solar midnight is dependent on longitude, latitude, altitude, and time of the year rather than on a time zone.
Interesting. Maybe the definition of time needs to be tweaked a bit.
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silverwhisper said on Mar 11, 2008....
dude, this is kinda hurting my brain.
[rubs temples]
ed -
TinSoldier said on Mar 11, 2008....
Basically, it's kinda arbitrary. It didn't used to be so.
So like GMT (or UTC if you prefer) is a set standard, then
...
wait. *continues reading*
Universal Time.
Okay, now my brain hurts after skimming the articles for UTC and Universal Time.
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silverwhisper said on Mar 11, 2008....
just so long as it wasn't an article about a timecube... :>
ed -
TinSoldier said on Mar 11, 2008....
*not enough time in the universe to fool me into clicking that link*
(Yes, I've seen it before.)
*brain explodes because he clicked it anyway*
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silverwhisper said on Mar 11, 2008....
[fetches dustpan to clean up TS brain remnants.]
:D
ed -
LtCmdrWorf1 said on Mar 12, 2008....
Ed,
All right, I clicked on the link, one question: WHAT THE HECK IS THAT ALL ABOUT?!?!? :) Luckily, Klingons have thick scalls :) Peace and Long Life
Love Worf
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silverwhisper said on Mar 12, 2008....
ah, timecube: perplexing and stymying web surfers for 5 years... :>
ed
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