• crybabylu said on Mar 02, 2008....

  Background

  The Six Day War occurred against the background of continuing Arab world hostility to the State of Israel, which had begun with the War of Independence. In that war, the newly created state of Israel had defeated the Arab armies that had invaded it, and expanded its territory. The war had created about 700,000 Palestinian Arab refugees, who fled or were expelled in 1948.

  Officially, no Arab country recognized the armistice lines of 1949 as international borders, and no Arab country recognized Israel, diplomatically. Israel, according to Arab rhetoric, had no right to exist, and was referred to as "The Zionist entity." Defeating and destroying Israel and "reversing the results of 1948" became central goals of Arab political rhetoric. Prestige and leadership of the Arab world were based on leadership in confrontation of Israel.

• crybabylu said on Mar 02, 2008....

  Author's note"

  I was 16 going on 17 when "the six day war was fought and WON", and I was smart enough then to know it was a good day for Israel.

• D6fer said on Mar 02, 2008....

  Sounds good to me cbl!  I always find it interesting that it is the atheist type that are so adamantly anti-Israel.....I often wonder if it simply because Christian types are usually pro-Israel? 

• crybabylu said on Mar 02, 2008....

  I wonder that too!

• GrapeKoolaid said on Mar 02, 2008....

  I don't know if there's anybody that's questioning Israel's right to exist on SoulCast.  Sure, "out there" in the real world(which is quite frightening in my opinion), there are plenty of people clamoring for the destruction of Israel, but I don't think any of those people have an account on SC. 
  
  Just saying. 
  

• bloc said on Mar 02, 2008....

  "I say that land belongs to Israel."
  
  What land and why?
  
  Regarding torture, I feel it is imperative for those of us that believe in human dignity to continue to speak out as long as the practice is still going on. It's like asking "how many times does MLK need to talk about racism"? I think that it's necessary to continue to talk about it until the situation changes.
  

• crybabylu said on Mar 02, 2008....

  Oh....Oh!  Busted!

  Just an off the cuff remark.....you know my feelings on torture, no disagreements with you there.......sorry!

• papajack said on Mar 02, 2008....

  You know my opinion on this and it is strictly based on the Bible.

• crybabylu said on Mar 02, 2008....

  Grape---you are probably right, but I do hear a sense of "anti-semitism" once in awhile. I don't think people even realize they come across that way.  It is almost like when I try to test someone's prejudice to black people....I ask them if they would like their daughter marrying one....

  JR--I wonder if that is where I get it from.  I know that World War II had a great deal of influence on my thinking as well.

   

• TinSoldier said on Mar 02, 2008....

  I will say something though, at least Bloc isn't posting on torture.....How many blogs do we need on that subject anyhow, but it is his blogs, and he is free to keep the drum rolling if he wants to ....it was a refreshing change to get off that subject for a day or two, though....don't you think?
  
  
  Heh. Even though I agree with him, and in the abstract I would say, "as many as are needed to change the situation" it does get to the point of spitting into the wind.
  
  But he should keep it up, because every mind he changes is one step closer.
  
  As for Israel's right to exist, I agree but I would have a difficult time articulating exactly why. There are a lot of little reasons, no one or no five even could explain it.
  
  I'm not religious or anything. *shrug*
  
  I wasn't around during the '67 war, it was about 2 1/2 years before my time.
  

• lfbno7 said on Mar 02, 2008....

  There is no other nation in the Middle East with the sole exception of Egypt that will tolerate the existence of Israel, and Egypt's leader was assassinated for making peace with Israel. All of Israel's other neighbors keep the flames burning by maintaining a constant drumroll of hatred against Israel, Jews in general, and Americans and the West in their tv, radio, streets, and even in their mosques and schools.
  
  I don't think there are many non-Muslims in America calling for the destruction of Israel, but there are many who think they are being "liberal" who fail to get the big picture in the Middle East and blame Israel for the situation there, as if there were anything on earth the Israelis could possibly do to end the hatred there. There is not. Israel could dismantle every settlement in the so-called Occupied Territories (which by the way are part of Israel) and allow Palestinians to out-vote them and turn Israel into a Muslim state, and still it would not end the determination of the Muslim Middle East to destroy Israel lock, stock and barrel and send every Jew packing.
  
  Simply stated, no Jews or Christians are wanted in the Muslim Middle East, and the message they are given is Get The Fuck Out. But the Jews have as much right to be there as the Muslims do. It's their home too. They fucking live there. Always did. Never quite left.
  
  As for torture, why focus on Israel when they are surrounded by states that torture. Why hold Israel to a higher standard than Syria and the rest. I remember when Iranians were demonstrating in Manhattan about torture in their country before the Ayatollah took power. The U.S. is the single greatest exporter of torture in the world with its School of the Americas in Virginia teaching Latin American would-be and soon-to-be dictators and their troops how to torture their own people. Focusing on Israeli torture is anti-semitic. It really is. It is damning the Jews for doing what everyone else does a lot more than they do. Israel is a lot kinder to its Muslim residents than any Muslim nation is to its Christians and Jews, and the only reason they must resort to checkpoints is because almost every act of terrorism in the world takes place on the streets of Israel. Every day is 9/11 in Israel and you have to protect as best you can.

• bloc said on Mar 03, 2008....

  it would be a lot easier to whole heartedly support israel if they'd stop doing things like building a fence well beyond their borders and would leave the illegal settlements. I hold Israel to a higher standard because I want to be on their side, but at the same time I believe in human dignity and human rights above all. 

• lfbno7 said on Mar 03, 2008....

  I'd throw the Arabs out of the Occupied Territory at this point and take it all. I'd provide transportation out and fair compensation for the possessions and homes they leave behind. The only ones I'd allow to stay would be the ones who signed an oath to accept the right of Israel to exist, and I don't think anybody would sign it. They're just too dangerous to have as neighbors, so I'd deport them.
  
  Then I'd make it a crime to yell fire in a crowded theatre within the boundaries of Israel, including the Occupied Territories, and besides yelling fire, I'd make it a crime to express hatred of Jews, because that leads directly to murder in that part of the world. I'm thinking that Hitler's and Goebbels's speeches had something to do with the Holocaust, no?

• bloc said on Mar 03, 2008....

  Laws like that can become very troublesome. Is criticism of Israel the same as "hatred of Jews"? This is why our founding fathers were adamant about free speech. It's too easy to twist well intentioned laws into abuses of power.

• GnawingDog said on Mar 03, 2008....

  Bruno: the Muslims have always been tolerant of Christians.

• crybabylu said on Mar 03, 2008....

  Gnawing----Yeah, like in right, just as the muslims are tolerant of Jews...

• GnawingDog said on Mar 03, 2008....

  As for survival: When the U.S. dollar tanks the Israelis will be hurting. Maybe they can sell a few of those nukes of theirs.

• GnawingDog said on Mar 03, 2008....

  Why should the Muslims be tolerant of Jews?

• Expendable said on Mar 03, 2008....

  Remember, the British promised to create a separate nation in exchange for Arab and Jewish help in getting the Ottoman Empire out of Palestine. But years of trying to work out a compromise between the two led the British to finally pass the problem on to the UN in 1947, who decided to split Palestine into three parts.

  But the Arabs in and out of Palestine didn't like the split and definitely didn't like an independant Jewish nation. But they wouldn't have had the land if the British hadn't driven out the Ottomans.

  It's this unwillingness to share that's caused all this.

• GnawingDog said on Mar 03, 2008....

  Maybe they like being bombed and bulldozed. Maybe they like having their land stolen and their rock throwing children killed by snipers. I hadn't thought about that.

• GnawingDog said on Mar 03, 2008....

  The British did not promise the Jews they promised the Arabs only. There weren't that many Jews in Palestine at the time of that promise to the Arabs.

• GnawingDog said on Mar 03, 2008....

  Expendable you have you history a little skewed. Laurence of Arabia was world war one.

• GnawingDog said on Mar 03, 2008....

  The Arabs were angry because the original deal was supposed to be approved by the majority of the people in the Palestine mandate. 60% were Arabs and they didn't want a partition. They were ignored and screwed over from the start.

• GnawingDog said on Mar 03, 2008....

  United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181 called for the partition of the British-ruled Palestine Mandate into a Jewish state and an Arab state. It was approved on November 29, 1947 with 33 votes in favor, 13 against, 10 abstentions and one absent (see list at end of document).
  
  The resolution was accepted by the Jews in Palestine, yet rejected by the Arabs in Palestine.

• davidstar said on Mar 03, 2008....

  

• davidstar said on Mar 03, 2008....

  

• davidstar said on Mar 03, 2008....

  English: The Star of David, the symbol of the Jewish faith and people. Also called Shield of David after the Hebrew Magen David

  It is named after King David of ancient Israel; and its earliest known communal usage began in the Middle Ages, alongside the more ancient symbol of the menorah. Geometrically it is the hexagram.

  With the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948 the Star of David on the Flag of Israel has also become a symbol of Israel. The symbol is also associated with the Zionism movement..........

  Click here for more:

• Trinov said on Mar 03, 2008....

  Hello, all I can say is that some of you don't know history and some of you know mainly how to distort it.
  
  But I have news for you, we the Jewish people survived The Egpytian Empire, the Babylonians, the Persians, the Greeks, the Romans, the European exile and the Spanish and Arab exiles. We will survive now too.
  
  The Arabs were never particularly tolerant of the Christians either, in Egpyt they used to lock up the Christians on Fridays in the middle ages, for Fridays is their holy day and they didn't want Christians about, they would murder a Christian as well as a Jew who dared to wear an article of clothing that was green, oh and in Gaza last week and the week before they were persecuting Gazan Christians, but let's not confuse the issue with facts. Many of the Christian Arabs left Bethlehem when the PLO took it into their loving hands.
  
  One of my brother's Arab Christian friends told me how his brother was tortured into insanity by the Jordanians, how they welcomed Israel into Jerusalem in 1967,anf they told us stories of how they would listen to Israeli Arabic radio to get the truth of what was really happening in the Outside World.
  
  My brother, who speaks Arabic, lived in Jerusalem after the Sixth Day War and had mostly Arab Christian friends who told him many stories of their lives under Jordanian rule. (He had a few Muslim friends also and at one point lived in an Arab area north of Jerusalem --for in the first few years after the Sixth Day war many of the Jerusalem Arabs breathed a sigh of relief to be free of the Jordanians. In a recent poll, the majority of the Arabs, (Muslim and Christian I believe from the districts), in and around the former Jordanian area of Jerusalem, want to remain under Israeli rule and many have just recently taken on Israeli citizenship.
  
  We have Arab members in our parliment --many of whom identify with our enemies but they are still there. An Arab mayor who was on the local radio station tried to explain that the national Arab parties do not really represent the majority of those in the towns who just want to make a living like everyone else. I don't know whether to believe him. but Arabs in the Galil make up most of the pharmacists, they provide many of the nurses and doctors in the hospitals, they seem to be the majority or near it of the college students in Tzfat and recently the Technion said that they are the majority of the medical students accepted for next year. Boy are we an apartheid society, huh?. We have Arab judges and many of the police are Arab or Druze here in the Galil.
  
  If you would read Mark Twain's visit to this area in the 19th century, you would learn that most of this area was uninhabited and uninhabitable. For example, at one point the Ottoman Turks gave abandoned Arab villages to the defeated Arab fighters from Algeria. Many of the villages were owned lock stock and barrel by very wealthy Arabs in Syriana and Lebanon, and the villagers were only 'renters' of the houses and the land and would leave a village for another village if they could not make a living in the conditions there. There was no palestinian people, for the Arabs from here sometimes left for Lebanon, the Arabs of South Syria came here to work on the docks and in the factories during the Mandate period as they had before, (for poor wages, while Israeli Arabs today have as much legal protection (for what its worth) as Jewish workers). As far as I have noticed, those that are anti-Israel and virilent about it, and distort the facts are simply anti-semites. Since I was a green eyed blond not everyone realized that I was Jewish. So I've had experiences where I heard anti-semitic remarks that seem to be just part of some people's psychies. A college friend of mine also told me of one of her similar experiences. She was a southern girl, Jewish from her mother's side and a descendent of a famous outlaw on her father's side. She was at a party in upstate NY, and no one seemed to realize that she was a Jew and she heard one too many an anti-semitic remark. She then decided to play a joke on them, saying that it was really true that Jews had horns, she got them all convinced (really) of this supposed anatomical fact, and then said see : and put two fingers over her head and said. "I'm Jewish". I might have given them the finger, for I'm not a lady in those circumstances. And to all you anti-semites out there pretending to love the poor palestinians, well what about all the poor Africans, the poor Haitians at your doorstep, the poor of the inner cities. Give me a break.

• merlin said on Mar 03, 2008....

  Hi everyone. I dont really want to get into this debate, but i have been given to understand, from the media ,government etc of my country (south africa) that israel is occupying land that belongs to the palestinians. But anyway i firmly that the situation in israel/palestine is similar to what occured in south africa-because in both cases you have two groups of people contesting land and country.i think a south african solutiön would work perfectely in this area. This means israel and palestine should become a single country ,with right given to all that live in it,and should be ruled by a government of national unity.of course i know its not that simple.but both these countries should take a lesson from south africas transision to peace

• Expendable said on Mar 03, 2008....

  gnawingdog, yes, Lawrence of Arabia was World War 1. The British were fighting the Ottoman Empire in WW1 because they were allies of the Germans.

• curmudgeon said on Mar 03, 2008....

  Actually some Egyptian glyphs apparently do mention the defeat of a band of people north that they term "Apiru" or "Habiru", which may or may not refer to the people known as the Hebrews of the Old Testament.
   
  If you want specifics I suppose I could dig them up.
   
  I don't really see how fruitful it would be to abandon the Israelis at this point. I don't see them giving up their homeland without making the whole thing (and a good chunk of the rest of the middle east) a radioactive parking lot.
   
  The challenge for the US is really quite daunting - how can we work to achieve peace in the middle east without:
   
  a) coming off as an empire asserting its power
  b) remaining loyal to our allies
  c) looking out for our valid interests such as economic growth and security?
   
  All of this is over a land mass no bigger than New Jersey!

• Trinov said on Mar 03, 2008....

  Hello, wow what hatred comes from some of you, and your energy of digging up anti-Israel bullshit sources.-- There actually are two papiri extant with mentions of the three days of darkness. But for you-- Jews should not exist, so you need to prove we did not exist.
  
  We have a prophesy that in the end of Days there will be a war of Gog and Magog, which could be the US and Russia, or China too, that they will fight and the winner will come up against us, little Israel, and the end result will be that we will be burying the millions of enemy troops for 7 years.
  
  When I hear guys like some of these guys here, I do wonder if the enemy will be America and not Russia or China. I always hoped it would not be, but what can I say--except that we also have a prophesy that in those times of the End of Days there will be greater miracles than those we experienced in Egypt and as we left Egpyt. Maybe it will open some eyes, as it did in Egypt, maybe not. But I do hope it will open some peoples eyes since we have another prophesy: that if the nations of the world will not try to stop the redemption, ie full return of all the Tribes to Israel and the building of the Third Temple--then it will be good for everyone on earth, but if the nations of the world will try to stop the redemption, and attempting to destroy Israel will certainly come under that category, it will not be good for the nations.
  
  As I have said before, I am only writing to those who can open their eyes, but those with strong hatred of my people, and of the Creator, I cannot reach and the best that I could feel for this crowd is a contemptuos pity.
  
  Those of you who believe in G-d and that the Jews are His people and that He is the Owner of the world should read a good translation of psalm 83. It is talking about now, Essav/ Essau today is America , Amalek is Germany (there were Germans in history who knew this), Tzor is today's Sidon, Assiriya is Syria, the children of Lot is Jordan, The children of Yismael/Ismael are the Arabs. Israel is mentioned as Israel, and the beautiful place of G-d is Jerusalem. Some of the references I am not sure of but I might be able to trace them. Check out the descriptions of what happens to those who plot against Israel.

• lfbno7 said on Mar 03, 2008....

  Sheltercrow go fuck yourself

• Trinov said on Mar 03, 2008....

  Hi, Here is an article about a US strike today where civilians were injured, what is the difference re what Israel is doing in Gaza--besides the fact that Israel is fighting on her own ground and the US is in Somalia going after terrorists -from CBS news online:
  
  U.S. Missile Strike Hits Town In Somalia Attack Aimed At Al Qaeda Suspect; Officials Say 8 People Seriously Injured WASHINGTON, March 3, 2008 (AP / CBS) Militants Back On Offense In Somalia
  
  (CBS/AP) The U.S. launched a military missile strike Monday targeting a terrorist suspect in a Somali town held by Islamic extremists, officials said. Residents and police in the town said a home was destroyed and at least eight people, including four children, were seriously injured.
  
  "It was a deliberate, precise strike against a known terrorist and his associates," one U.S. military official said in Washington, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to comment on the record.
  
  The targets were believed staying in building known to be used regularly by terrorist suspects, he said. Last year, the U.S. shelled suspected al Qaeda targets in Somalia, using gunfire from a U.S. Navy ship offshore.
  
  In Dobley, some four miles from the Kenyan border, Fatuma Abdullahi told The Associated Press she woke to a "loud and a big bang and when we came out we found our neighbor's house completely obliterated as if no house existed here.
  
  "We are taking shelter under trees. Three planes were flying over our heads."

• desertsienna2 said on Mar 03, 2008....

  I wouldn't dispute Israel's right to exist.  I had a conversation with a boss about how the policies of Bush may have created this situation.  At least it contributed along with nearly a decade of indifference from the American government.  Yitzhak Rabin once told Bill Clinton that he worried Israel might be accused of an apartheid regime if the Palestinian question wasn't resolved.  He didn't want to face a binational state, a permanent occupation and the possibility of a one-state Arab Palestinian Muslim majority country.   This is a legitimate concern.
  
  Some things need to change: 
  
  The P.L.O. must abandon the right of return for Palestinian refugees into Israel's pre-48 borders.  They could negotiate a right of return into Palestine and possibly compensation from the West in the form of an aid package.  Israel's descendants of refugees would have to be compensated by Arab countries or the amount owed subtracted from any financial compensation package to Arab refugees.
  
  A land swap is necessary to make up for stolen land and settlements.  All illegal and legal settlements past the '67 border have to be removed.  The Israeli government's housing authority still lures people in with settlements.  You can't colonize another country and negotiate peace.  You can't steal their land, displace them from their homes and live beside them in separate neighborhoods and negotiate peace.  It has to stop.  It is more a security risk than a security barrier.  Part of the deal may include border and housing negotiations.
  
  The status of Jerusalem must be resolved with fairness to both sides: clearly East Jerusalem must become an administrative capital for Palestine but it will have to be shared by both maybe with power-sharing over all of Jerusalem by both without separation, segregation and the stealing of Jerusalem by Palestinians.  Religious sites must be accessible.  There can be no harassment of Israelis living in neighborhoods around Jerusalem and there can be no access to Israel's other parts for Palestinians.
  
  The issues of army control, land, air and sea must be settled fairly.  Israel has some legitimate security concerns.
  
  The wall will have to be altered to accommodate border changes, land swaps and the results of final status negotiations.
  
  Farmers who lost their lands should be given other land and compensation for this loss.
  
  The P.L.O. will have to work with the IDF to fight terrorism in Palestine.
  

• desertsienna2 said on Mar 03, 2008....

  Laws against torture should apply to civilians, soldiers, prisoners of war, diplomats, officials and minor criminals.  There should be an exemption for anyone sympathetic to extremism and militancy.  Sometimes, these methods, while undesirable, are necessary in terms of the greatest good for the greatest number.  AI concerns itself over Saddam Hussein but not the genocide of Kurdish separatists.  What is more an injustice?  They pass resolutions at the U.N. against the rockets and against self-defense of a country.  Can't win.  It is not an altercation: it has to be fought.  It isn't that simple.  These people aren't just going to go away if the soldiers put down their guns. 
  
  Think about it: if the IDF just packed up and went home to their houses and apartments in Israel and the borders were opened without regulation to anyone, do you really think these groups in Lebanon, Palestine and Syria would just come on in, knock on someone's door and ask how Purim was?  Oh sure, then they'd offer a bottle of wine and some chocolate and the host would get his wife to make a cheese plate and coffee.  They'd sit around and reminisce over the latest hajj and that great dinner to break Ramadan fast, how good the economy is, how their sons love soccer, play some backgammon and maybe they can sleep on the couch before they head out on their way in the morning.  Such is the logic of the U.N.
  
  GET REAL.  IT IS SOMETIMES NECESSARY TO USE UNDESIRABLE MEANS TO PROTECT CIVILIANS AND SOLDIERS.  These extremists recruit their own and punish innocent women and children related to them.  They force some people to do it and threaten the lives of everyone, Palestinians and Israelis alike.  Not all Israelis are Jewish as some are Arab Christian, Muslim and refugees from other parts of the world such as Kosovo and Russia.
  

• Trinov said on Mar 03, 2008....

  Hi, point of information, also Armenian Christian refugees came here and have a quarter in the Old City of Jerusalem.
  
  Another point of information--if you want non Biblical proof of the Jews in Egypt and the Exodus then try to get a copy of Worlds in Collision by Immanuel Velikovsky, who like Barry Fell was able to read a few languages and did tremendous research. When he is not being banned by universities, his work is stolen and accredited to establishment professors:
  
  From a clipping in the NY Times 1985, a letter to the editor by Benjamin E. DeRoy: "In his time Velikovsky wa pilloried by scientists. Now students search his books for subjects of doctoral theses, and scientific investigators search them for leads on research topics.
  
  Velikovsky compares the extant myths and legends of many peoples around the world with the Biblical account of Exodus. He goes step by step for each of the plagues and cites correlations from the collective memories of many ancient peoples. This sort of research was his life's work and should be read,--and his point of view was scientific, not religious for he mapped the correlations but denied that G-d had anything to do with the miracles!

• Trinov said on Mar 04, 2008....

  Hello.
  
  Just for the record for those who are capable of rational thought out there, there was a woman who was a supporter of the PLO. She was granted access to the records of the British government for they liked her political orientation.
  
  What they didn't realize, was that unlike some people, she was very honest and had not emotional agenda. She spent 5 years and came out with a book that refuted all the Arab claims of being here in a well developed land before the Jews came back as a movement.
  
  The name of the book is From Time Immemorial, by Joan Peters, originally Harper and Row, 1984
  
  The Christian Century said : The most thoroughly researched and solidly documented work on the origins of the Arab-Israeli conflict...a book that smashes conventional wisdom... unassailable in its thoroughness."
  
  The New York Times said: "The massive research Ms Peters did...would have daunted Hercules. In the course of it she turned up a great deal of interesting material from Ottoman records, the reports of Western consular officers and observant travelors and other sources."
  
  The Washington Post Book World said :" A remarkable document in itself...The refugees are not the problem but the excuse."
  
  The National Review said: "The great service provided here by Mrs. Peters--if only attention is paid--is to lay a groundwork for peace by clearing away the farrogo of lies.."
  
  The Los Angeles Times said: " The reader comes away not only rethinking the Middle East refugee problem, but also the extent to which propoganda can be swallowed whole for lack of information."
  
  Angier Biddle Duke former Ambassador to Morroco:"This book facinatingly shatters the presistent myths surrounding the contemporary concept of an Arab homeland that bases its legitmacy on ancient roots in the Middle East. .."
  
  
  This should give you an idea of how well respected the book was when it came out. We got a copy. When a few years later I found that the book was out of print while looking for a redundancy copy so we could lend it out, I called the publisher and they said that the book had been bought out by Random House. When I called Random House re getting a copy I got this chilling message: "Do you think that we bought the book to publish it?" I must admit that even I was shocked.
  
  But it has been re-published since then, after years of not being available. I can give quotes from this book, but anyone who wants to have a fact based opinion should try to get a hold a copy, it may be in the larger university libraries who buy everything that is published and then only shelve what is requested. But the books purchased are usually listed in the electronic catalogues and can be requested when found.
  
  

• Trinov said on Mar 04, 2008....

  Hello, my religion and my beliefs --well many of the prophesies have already come true-- already. I'm actually collecting evidence of the growing incidents that fit the psalmic punishments.
  
  For people who hate Jews and G-d, or don't believe in G-d, or have a personal agenda of support for the Arabs no matter what, I can't do too much. But for those who don't have an agenda, and are open to G-d in history, recent history well I may have some interesting things to share.
  
  I am an Israeli, and a Jew from the First Temple exile, whose family had lived in an area that was Muslim ruled. I have no personal hate for anyone,(except for active enemies and that is healthy) and believe the prophesy that in the very end of the End of Days, the Arabs will be able to be friends with the Jews, just as their ancestor Yismael eventually reconciled with his father Avraham and his half brother Yitzchak. Obviously this will take a while and maybe a war or two before this happens, but it will happen for we have a saying The actions of the fathers are a sign for the children-meaning that the actions of the peoples should follow their ancestors
  
  For those with their own anti-Israel, anti-Jewish agenda, I have no reason to waste breathe on them, for they believe their own lies. Obviously, this person here who supposedly is a disinterested individual, is not. He has an agenda and possibly is even paid for all that effort, or if not he is a dedicated supporter of lies.
  
  Anyone who is interested enough to have an opinion on the Middle East should at least skim through Joan Petor's From Time Immemorial. I say skim for it is a gigantic book, written with a love of truth, for Joan Peters started out as a supporter of the PLO and the rights of the poor palestinians. But she was that rare honest individual who let truth guide her, and not her friends or her agenda. May she be blessed.

• crybabylu said on Mar 05, 2008....

  I like you artwork, shelter.  Feel free to plant it anytime!

• crybabylu said on Mar 21, 2008....

  cotterall&elaineadams said about 1 hour ago.... delete block user

  http:''www.soulcast.com "http:''www.soulcast.com Much love and blessings, cotterall and adams web mail
  
  
  The U.S. is responsible for the failure to create a Palestinian homeland.  These poor people live in refugee camps without compensation, citizenship, housing, health care and human rights.  They live under occupation with martial law, restrictions on mobility and curfews.  It is unfair.  They deserve a right of return back into Gaza, the West Bank and Jordan.  The Israeli descendants of refugees from Arab lands should be compensated with full rights of return, land, housing and return of any assets as well for the sake of fairness.
  
  Israel has settled onto Palestinian land without recognizance and this has been documented by leftist groups such as Gush Shalom, Jewish Voices for Peace, and Peace Now.  B'Tselem and others deal with human rights.  I suppose I understand that Israel has a right to self-defense against militants in Lebanon but it has nothing to do with refugees and the occupation of the West Bank.  It doesn't justify settlements.  They can deal with Syria how they want as long as it isn't warfare and aggression as it was by the U.S. in Iraq.  I am not against their right to exist with a Jewish majority and understand that Jerusalem is important to them.  Why is there always focus on the Israeli side and never any exploration of the Palestinian side?  They are not all militants and are treated like subhumans.  It is anti-Arabism.
  
  By the way, I do not support a right of return into Israel and support its right to exist but there are always two sides to these types of conflicts.  I don't agree with the 'Greater Israel' settler's movement.  I will point out that human rights groups such as AI (have sat in on some of their meetings out of curiosity) focus on the wrong issues by trying to eliminate the right to security and favouring the right to protect militants from torture and ending targeting militants by soldiers out of security. A house demolition and gunshot wound to a militant is unfortunate but a security necessity dictated by the rules of the game.  It is the bombing of civilians that bothers me and so on.  They have placed militants in the same human rights category as soldiers, government officials and civilians.

• crybabylu said on Mar 21, 2008....

   

  cotteral&elaineadams:    I erased the characters or whatever they were that you had on my blog.  I don't want anything on my blog that I can't read.  I am responsible for my blog, and if I can't understand it, it doesn't stay, so I saved the rest of what you wrote on that comment, now if you want to dispute anything that I saved that it might not be genuinely yours, just ask me and I will delete it.

  Thank you!

• TinSoldier said on Mar 21, 2008....

  I'm a Zionist.

• crybabylu said on Mar 22, 2008....

  I am conflicted over this battle between Israel & Palestine.  I have gone to some of the links that I have found posted on Google to see if I can understand the conflict any better....But also, I have some history with the situation as well.  As I said above, I lived through some of this, and I see the plight of Israel very clearly.....

  And I've seen all the terrorism dealt them at the hands of the Palestinians, now being fueled at the hands of Hamas which is a terrorist organization.  There is no doubt in my mind about that!  They have pledged the destruction of Israel!

  

                    I thought it an interesting sketch revealing the artist's view of  the "Zionist's" attitude towards the situation over there in that part of the world.  

   Apparently, it is an attempt to make it look like they are trying to justify their actions by calling it something else, but I do not see that, myself.

  I don't see Israel trying to justify anything. I see them trying to survive.

  I inadvertedly deleted a few posts from this site yesterday.  I have to admit, I thought they were very prejudicial, and somewhat slanted against Israel's postion to the point I thought they were borderline "Anti-semite"

  I regret deleting them, because when posting a piece like this to my blog, I do want all points of view.  A discussion of sorts, but hopefully we can do that in a "courteous" manner without being inflamatory.

  Therefore, If anyone's comments were deleted and would like to re-post them, I would appreciate that.

  Thank you.
  

• desertsienna2 said on Mar 22, 2008....

  
  

• crybabylu said on Mar 22, 2008....

   

  I just now found this link on another bloggers site.  I found it a reasonable solution.  Now this has been proposed and if I remember agreed upon, so would any of you like to tell me, why it didn't work?

  In other words, what is preventing this from being successful?

  Someone's inappropriate comment to a post #1.

• runningbear said on Mar 22, 2008....

  it would be nice if they could find a way to co-exist.

• cotteralladams3 said on Mar 22, 2008....

  http:''www.soulcast.com "http:''www.soulcast.com Much love and blessings, cotterall and adams web mail The U.S. is responsible for the failure to create a Palestinian homeland. These poor people live in refugee camps without compensation, citizenship, housing, health care and human rights. They live under occupation with martial law, restrictions on mobility and curfews. It is unfair. They deserve a right of return back into Gaza, the West Bank and Jordan. The Israeli descendants of refugees from Arab lands should be compensated with full rights of return, land, housing and return of any assets as well for the sake of fairness. Israel has settled onto Palestinian land without recognizance and this has been documented by leftist groups such as Gush Shalom, Jewish Voices for Peace, and Peace Now. B'Tselem and others deal with human rights. I suppose I understand that Israel has a right to self-defense against militants in Lebanon but it has nothing to do with refugees and the occupation of the West Bank. It doesn't justify settlements. They can deal with Syria how they want as long as it isn't warfare and aggression as it was by the U.S. in Iraq. I am not against their right to exist with a Jewish majority and understand that Jerusalem is important to them. Why is there always focus on the Israeli side and never any exploration of the Palestinian side? They are not all militants and are treated like subhumans. It is anti-Arabism. By the way, I do not support a right of return into Israel and support its right to exist but there are always two sides to these types of conflicts. I don't agree with the 'Greater Israel' settler's movement. I will point out that human rights groups such as AI (have sat in on some of their meetings out of curiosity) focus on the wrong issues by trying to eliminate the right to security and favouring the right to protect militants from torture and ending targeting militants by soldiers out of security. A house demolition and gunshot wound to a militant is unfortunate but a security necessity dictated by the rules of the game. It is the bombing of civilians that bothers me and so on. They have placed militants in the same human rights category as soldiers, government officials and civilians.

• crybabylu said on Mar 22, 2008....

   http://www.peaceworkmagazine.org

  Other articles can be found at the above website address.

• Trinov said on Mar 22, 2008....

  Hi, there never was a "palestinian state" or a palestinian people. Most of the Arabs in this area have come into the Land of Israel since the 1850's when Jews started returning and reclaiming the land. The Arab villages, which were built on areas that had been once Jewish, sometimes up until quite recently, as can be seen by the Arabized versions of the original Hebrew names, were mostly on a small hills surrounded by fields and trees. Most of them were tenant farmers, with no ownership of the land.
  
  The vast majority of the land, was, and even is today, barren. Jews had been buying back tracts of land, owned by wealthy Muslim and Christian absentee landlords in Lebanon and Syria and other places, for two hundred years. The land that they bought was either swamp land that had to be drained, which caused a high percentage of the first 'settlers' to die of malaria, or was rocky soil not cultivated for many many centuries.
  
  As a kibutznik I helped un rock some of these fields 40 years ago. We did it by hand and piled the rocks in one place and then lifted them by hand and piled them in trucks, or moved them to make fences, as done by everyone in the Middle East. Even today, about 90% of the Galilee is barren, or covered with the mostly fir tree forest put up by the Keren HaKayemet forestry department, and the trees have been paid for by Jewish school children, penny by penny and by families commemorating a family memory or name, for at least a hundred years. I remember the little boxes at my Hebrew school classes, and we would put in our pennies every week and feel we were doing something positive for our people.
  
  Jerusalem has had a Jewish majority (of the three ethnic populations) from 1810. In spite of horrible Turkish and arab rule, and the murder of Jews( and native Christians also) by the Crusades This was our city and only our city. It was despised by the Crusaders for most of the time, and also by the Muslims. Only recently, when it is no longer a small walled town but a large beautiful city, has it become suddenly so important to the Muslims.
  
  As a Christian, (a Jew could certainly not try this) try to walk into Mecco, baby. What is left of you may not need a burial.
  
  Try to have a beer in public in Saudi Arabia (in private you can get away with it, the Saudis do). If you are a women, try wearing anything anyway revealing in any city in a Muslim country (with the possible exceptions of Egypt and Morroco, or the European held districts in other areas) and see what happens.
  
  Israel is singled out by the world to be perfect. Well baby, we are not perfect but baby neither are you or any other country on this sad backward ailing little planet.
  
  Imagine living in a country the size of New Jersey with enemies who outnumber you in the hundreds of millions, and with no real friends (Only one Friend, that is the Creator of the Universe). Imagine that your 'friends' tell you that you are defending yourself too much against those throwing rockets at your children and homes and schools and factories, that your capitol has to be shared with your enemies, that you have to give them half your country, and weapons, and money, and throw your best people off land that was 'settled' on the call of the government, by people willing to make their lives on the border in order to protect their brothers and cousins further in land.
  
  Most of you haven't a clue about what is going on outside of your neighborhoods, You have propoganda, not news. Or you would have been worrying about the dollar for at least a year already, for this current dollar problem had been in the foreign press for ages. And you would be worrying about the shortages of wheat (people have died on breadlines in Egpyt already) and rice and corn. This is in the news outside of your little bubble, baby. And it will hit you as a headline sometime when it is too late. And the growing strains of TB that are now impossible to treat with anti-biotics, and these strains are now being spread by droplet infection, out of the hospitals (they were once the problem of patients in hospitals mainly). And the bubonic plague is starting to raise its head too, (and there are people 'annoyed' by cats, oh boy, what a messs waiting to happen)
  
  My point is, that if you want to be informed about anything, skip CNN. Let your fingers do the clicking for the news can be found out there, and if you read with attention you should eventually have a base upon which to filter the bullshit from the truth.
  
  And if you want to have a true idea of what is going on in Israel, google Arutz 7, the Jerusalem Post, and Ynet News and you might get a basic feeling of what is going on. There are Arabic papers in English also. The Teheran Times is interesting reading, Lebanon has at least one English paper, so does Jordan, Syria's' English paper is just for touring tourists, but you might want to take a peak too. Read and compare. Then form an informed opinion.

• cotterall&elaineadams said on Mar 22, 2008....

  Palestinians have a history that goes back to the time of the ancient Canaanites and the British and Ottomans had documented their presence.  They trace themselves back to Philistinia as well and have always considered themselves a distinct people.  They rejected Egyptian and Jordanian rule and have as much of a right to self-determination as the Tibetans, Kosovans, Chechens, Kurds, Armenians, East Timorians, Vietnamese or any other group of people with their own culture, faith, ancestry and language.  That they speak Arabic and follow Islam gives them a connection to the Arab world but they are not all the same country.  Kosovans are secular and moderate Muslims: they do not consider themselves to be Yugoslavian because it was forced on them as is this occupation which gets in the way of self-determination along with refugee camps for Palestinians.  Belligerence is not going to help anyone here.
  
  Consider that if Israel doesn't create a country for them, they will become the majority under occupation. That will leave a binational state or a Palestinian-majority state as solutions.  Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin raised concerns with President Bill Clinton about the possibility of apartheid developing in the occupied territories and spoke of how peace and a two-state solution was necessary in order to secure Israel a lasting peace with borders and security.  He wanted them to have their own country and not constantly make their children go to war against the Arabs.  He spoke of the vicious and tragic cycle of violence in the occupied territories and how the occupation drained people in the army of energy.  He spoke of how hard it was to get to that point of realization and worried about his country's reputation after the first intifada which he felt they could not handle again.
  
  Israel and Palestine have been through two intifadas.  I have no doubt that what is happening now is an unofficial third one.  Wake up and realize that you are hurting yourself in the process of subjugating human beings to a nonhuman state.  Their self-destruction may end up being everyone's misery.
  
  
  

• crybabylu said on Mar 23, 2008....

  So tell me why have they aligned themselves with Hamas Gihad, etc...?

  These are known terrorist groups!

  Tell me that, Cotterall!

• Trinov said on Mar 23, 2008....

  Hi, poor little Cotteral, she must think the moon is made of green cheese, for she swallows so much shit and believes it. I can't deal with that time of nonsense, no truth just lies someone fed her little mind.
  
  I've taught geniouses to idiots in my day, and the idiots were more open than people who spout such nonsense. Go ahead America, believe in shit, its your choice. The Iranians believe that they should rule the world, so does El Quida, that is their choice, Everyone to his own shit.
  
  But truth will out in the end. What a bad joke it will be on all these green cheese fanatics, who make up history out of whole cloth.

• crybabylu said on Mar 23, 2008....

  Well, I am glad that most of America don't believe that CRAP!  The problem lies with the fact it is only the ones who do believe it makes all the noise about it.  But, when it comes time to stand up and be counted.  America will be standing beside Israel as always, thank god!

• Trinov said on Mar 23, 2008....

  HI,
  Here is an English translation of a Hebrew translation of a Turkish article : "To intergrate Israel into the Middle East
  True and lasting peace will come only when the neighbors of Israel will recognise that the Jewish people sit in Israel by right, an not only by force of circumstance. . The Jewish State is not a foreign invader to the Middle East. It is a branch and a representative of one of the most ancient cultures in this part of the world. Everything connects Israel to the area: geography, history, culture and even the religion and the language. The Jewish religion is used as a theological support and basis of Islam and Eastern Christianity. Hebrew and Arabic are as close to each other as two languages of Latin origin {are to each other}. The auther is an Egyptian reporter."
  
  Now and then there are Arab reportors and intellectuals who don't just vomit out the line of their countries, but put their lives on the line to say some important truth. It is damn dangerous for them to say the truth, and too damned easy for Americans and British to sit in their armchairs and lie.

• bloc said on Mar 23, 2008....

  @cbl
  you may want to be careful about demanding answers for aligning with terrorist groups. We've aligned ourselves with many terrorists groups over the years. The taliban is one of many examples. 
  
  
  People will say that we aligned with the taliban because they were fighting the russians and that's ok because it was in our national interest. Maybe the palestinians are aligning themselves with terrorists for the same reasons we've done it in the past?

• crybabylu said on Mar 24, 2008....

  Well, that thought did cross my mind as I posted my comment, but since that time, I believe we have conducted ourselves differently.

  I don't know at that time we knew the Taliban was that radical.  There is definitely a new tone here and a somewhat different policy since 911.

  IT is almost like the world, if you ask me is divided in two sections.

  "Terrorism and Non-terrorism"........

  Psst....You give credit to America for that endeavor but if my memory serves me right, We could lay it right at Carter's feet, am I right......He isn't a hero of mine.......but someday I will do a post about him, and believe me, It is not going to be a kind one........

  Al Quada has its fingers into most of it, and I am going to do some more research to find out what ties it has to terrorism against Israel as well.

  We already know that whoever does acts of terrorism is doing the will of Al Quada, I just want to know if there are any direct ties.

  Al Quada has called for the death of Israel for sometime, if i am remembering my news stories correctly.

  Going to research it and see!

• lfbno7 said on Mar 24, 2008....

  Yes, Osama calls for wiping out Israel. But that's not anything new in the Arab world. Every Arab calls for wiping out Israel. I think the world leader in terrorism is probably our own country. I think we've got Osama beat in that department. Osama is a Minor Leaguer next to us.

• crybabylu said on Mar 24, 2008....

  Breaking News<<<<<Everyone!        

  lfbno7 & bloc ....just now climbed into bed with each other!

  oh my...........whatever is this world coming too????????

• crybabylu said on Mar 24, 2008....

  "@cbl
  you may want to be careful about demanding answers for aligning with terrorist groups. We've aligned ourselves with many terrorists groups over the years. The taliban is one of many examples. 
  
  
  People will say that we aligned with the taliban because they were fighting the russians and that's ok because it was in our national interest. Maybe the palestinians are aligning themselves with terrorists for the same reasons we've done it in the past?"
   
  bloc posted here, .....bloc, if my memory serves me right, President Carter got us involved with the Taliban....I think also, yu think he was an okay president, did you agree with that move?

• bloc said on Mar 24, 2008....

  I don't agree with that move. I think our support of such people is what got us in the mess we are in today. Our support of Saddam is another example of this.

• crybabylu said on Mar 24, 2008....

  Thanks, bloc.

• TinSoldier said on Mar 24, 2008....

  We never supported the Taliban. We negotiated with them for awhile in the '90s to reduce or eliminate the poppy crop from Afghanistan (which they did) but otherwise I think that you are confusing them with the Mujahadeen from the Afghan war against the Soviets.
  
  Now, the folks that eventually formed the Taliban may have been part of the Mujahadeen in that war, but some were also part of the Northern Alliance and other groups. The Taliban just became the most dominant group.
  

• bloc said on Mar 24, 2008....

  yes, the mujahadeen. Either way they were terrorists and carried out terrorists acts while we supported them. 

• papajack said on Mar 25, 2008....

  We truly have made some mistakes in yesteryear that are now coming home to haunt us.

• davidstar said on Mar 26, 2008....

  1) Israel is facing a serious threat -- Palestinian gunmen have repeatedly fired at civilians and soldiers from hospitals, mosques and schools, using humans as shields and ambulances to transport weaponry.

• davidstar said on Mar 26, 2008....

  Jihad: The religious struggle to eradicate the Jews from Israel and establish an Islamic society in their stead.

• GrapeKoolaid said on Mar 26, 2008....

  What dictionary is that definition from david?  Because the American Heritage Dictionary defines Jihad as: 
  
  1. Islam An individual's striving for spiritual self-perfection.
  2. Islam A Muslim holy war or spiritual struggle against infidels.
  3. A crusade or struggle:
  No where does it say anything about Jews or Israel. 
  
  The problem with this thread is that people internalize the discourse and consider an attack on their position as an attack on themselves.  It's not anyone's fault, though.  It's because the schools no longer teach children rhetoric. 
  
  I strongly urge all you to read(or at least browse through) the pdf file on this link.  It's a paper published by John J. Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago's Department of Political Science and Stephen M.Walt of Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government on 03/13/06.  I think it's an important piece that lends an interesting perspective on the situation. 
  

• kumarilata said on Mar 26, 2008....

  grape, I'm not david, but I will give you something to think about when referring to jihad.  I look at them as a terrorist organization fuelded by the hatred of jews and americans from Osama bin Laden.

  In his book released in 2005,  absorbing, and excellent book, Understanding Jihad (University of California Press), David Cook of Rice University dismisses the low-grade debate that has raged since 9/11 over the nature of jihad – whether it is a form of offensive warfare or (more pleasantly) a type of moral self-improvement.

  Mr. Cook dismisses as "bathetic and laughable" John Esposito's contention that jihad refers to "the effort to lead a good life." Throughout history and at present, Mr. Cook definitively establishes, the term primarily means "warfare with spiritual significance."

  His achievement lies in tracing the evolution of jihad from Muhammad to Osama, following how the concept has changed through fourteen centuries. This summary does not do justice to Cook's extensive research, prolific examples, and thoughtful analysis, but even a thumbnail sketch suggests jihad's evolution.

  The Koran invites Muslims to give their lives in exchange for assurances of paradise.

• crybabylu said on Mar 26, 2008....

  Please know everyone, that I am reading the comments, and find them all very informative.  I posted this hoping we would get open up the dialogue for discussion.  There seems to be a lot of different views, and I appreciate everyone for sharing those views.  Even though I am not taking the time to comment on each one...It was more for everyone to just express what they thought...Thanks to everyone, and I hope the discussion will continue, because I am learning a lot!

• Trinov said on Mar 26, 2008....

  Hi, just a point of information, from:
  The Arabs, A short history by Phillip K. Hitti, Princeton University Press,1943.
  
  The quote is about the first battle waged by Mohammad and his followers and how it set the tone for Muslim conquest and rule:
  
  "The encounter between the reinforced Meccan carravan and the Moslems, thanks to the inspiring leadership of the Prophet, resulted in the victory of three hundred Moslems over a thousand Meccans. However unimportant itself as a military engagement, this skirmish laid the foundation of Muhammad's temporal power. Islam had won its first and decisive military victory: the victory itself was seen as a divine sanction of the new faith.....The spirit of discipline and the contempt of death, manifested at this first armed encounter of Islam proved characteristic of it in its later and greater conquests.....Then and there Islam came to be what the world has ever since recognised it to be--a militant polity."
  
  
  While most religions used military conquests at some time in their history, military conquest was the major tool in the spread of Islam. The concept of religion and conquest are merged in Islam--not that the average Moslem is aware of this on a daily actuualised way of life in a stable Moslem state:
  
  "The year 732 marked the first centennial of the Prophet's death. His followers were now the conquerors of an empire extending from the Bay of Biscay to the Indus and the frontiers of China, from the Aral Sea to the upper Nile."

• anonymous said on Aug 04, 2008....

  I couldn't be wrong here, but, the fact is, Palestine wasone of the only places outside of India, which did not have a modern history of "isms" and pogroms against the jews. It was only after the jews(religious) from outside of Palestine, began terrorism in Palestine that any modern issues erupted with jews within that country. It staggers me, that the understanding is expected in only one direction. This is not a race or religious issue at all it is an issue for right and wrong for humanity and for decency . Let us not forget that the modern jewish state has had more resolutions against it in the UN than any other nation...AGAINST. None of these have been enforced! Why? Yet the israeli's have ignored them, and never been reprimanded for their ignorance and defiance. The bitter reality is that israel is guilty of far more atrocities and animosity than any of its neigbours. The fact is that at every juncture, the Palestinians were blamed for peace and peace talk breakdowns when in fact they were rarely the aggressors. They were never the party that did not negotiate in those talks. They always gave and gave and gave, yet regardless of how far they gave in, the israelis never met them anywhere but where they staked their initial claim. There was only ever two real sticking points for the Palestinians, and even those were yielded once. The Palestinians and the rest of the civilized world have every right to be red eyed about the israeli's. Someone had to cop the new jewish state, they tried to bribe and steal one in Africa, via Rhodes, and they tried to establish their state in Northern Western Australia, the then South America and finally, Palestine. Every dog has its day right? The only question is whether that state is in fact a dog!
  

• anonymous said on Aug 04, 2008....

  other anon, i agree in part to what you are saying but only in part.  where we differ is that all parties in that region are committing atrocities on each other.  not just one group against the other, but all!

• sheltercrow said on Aug 07, 2008....

  Chomsky and Finkelstein on Joan Peters' From Time Immemorial
  
  The book is rubbish. It was exposed as a fraud by several critics, including Norman Finkelstein (whose exposé is included in Blaming the Victims, edited by Edward Said and Christopher Hitchens, also available via Amazon) and later Oxford University's Albert Hourani.
  
  [...]
  
  From Time Immemorial ... was a big scholarly-looking book with lots of footnotes, which purported to show that the Palestinians were all recent immigrants... And it was very popular — it got literally hundreds of rave reviews, and no negative reviews: the Washington Post, the New York Times, everybody was just raving about it. Here was this book which proved that there were really no Palestinians! Of course, the implicit message was, if Israel kicks them all out there's no moral issue, because they're just recent immigrants who came in because the Jews had built up the country. ... That was the big intellectual hit for that year: Saul Bellow, Barbara Tuchman, everybody was talking about it as the greatest thing since chocolate cake. Well, one graduate student at Princeton, a guy named Norman Finkelstein, started reading through the book. He was interested in the history of Zionism, and as he read the book he was kind of surprised by some of the things it said. He's a very careful student, and he started checking the references — and it turned out that the whole thing was a hoax, it was completely faked: probably it had been put together by some intelligence agency...
  
  Finkelstein's very persistent: he took a summer off and sat in the New York Public Library, where he went through every single reference in the book — and he found a record of fraud that you cannot believe. Well, the New York intellectual community is a pretty small place, and pretty soon everybody knew about this, everybody knew the book was a fraud...
  
  Well, as soon as I heard that the book was going to come out in England, I immediately sent copies of Finkelstein's work to a number of British scholars and journalists who are interested in the Middle East — and they were ready. As soon as the book appeared, it was just demolished, it was blown out of the water. Every major journal, the Times Literary Supplement, the London Review, the Observer, everybody had a review saying, this doesn't even reach the level of nonsense, of idiocy....
  
  [...]
  
  For a lengthy discussion of the criticisms of Joan Peters' book see Paul Blair's six-part article published in 2002 beginning at http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=2135. Blair writes in his Conclusion:
  
  

  From Time Immemorial is work of propaganda, with all the bad connotations that term carries. Peters' case rests upon distortion and fabrication. Time and again, she misconstrues sources in a tendentious manner. She cribs uncritically from partisan works. She conceals crucial calculations, and draws hard conclusions from tenuous evidence. She speculates wildly and without ground. She exaggerates figures and selects numbers to suit her thesis. She adduces evidence that in no way supports her claims, sometimes even omitting "inconvenient" portions of the citation. She invents contradictions in sources she wishes to discredit by quoting them out of context. She "forgets" undesirable numbers in her calculations. She ignores sources that cast doubt on her conclusions, even when she herself uses those sources for other purposes. She makes baseless insinuations and misleading claims. ...

  
  Someone should tell Seth J. Frantzman, Rabbi Noach Zaner, Joshua Wander and the other 5-star reviewers on Amazon's web pages that Joan Peters' book has been proven to be rubbish. But for drawing attention to this inconvenient fact one would then no doubt be accused of "anti-Semitism", since in the perverted thinking of Zionists any criticism of a supporter of Israel is equated with hostility toward Jews. This fact has only to be stated clearly to be seen to be not only indefensible but also ludicrous.

• sheltercrow said on Aug 07, 2008....

  Ah Trinov... "I've taught [geniuses] to idiots in my day..." lol

• cotterall&elaineadams said on Aug 07, 2008....

  http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-yeor080202.asp An interesting article on jihad and racism. http://geocities.com/arabracismandislamicjihad/Racism another article or set of articles and commentary on the situation facing Black Christians and animists in Darfur http://www.hsje.org/displacement_of_jews_from_arab_c.htm Discussion of the forced expulsion and exodus of Sephardic Jews from Arab lands after the creation of Israel. A very good primer on the plight of Jewish refugees forced out of Arab lands against their will. http://www.jimena.org/ An organization that deals with the issue of justice and compensation for Sephardic Jews

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