• Zayda said on Feb 19, 2008....

  LG: I don't have tattoos as large as yours yet. I can easily hide my current tattoos. My next one will be fairly good sized in that it will take up at least 1/4 of my back--essentially my whole right shoulder. It will be fairly easy to hide depending on my choice of clothing--less easy with a tank top than other shirts.
  
  
  But I think permanently dressing your body with artwork takes an understanding of what kind of commitment is involved there. It's an investment of time (both to determine the design and to get the tattoo), of thought, of skin, of trust (that your tattoo artist will do his/her best to make your vision come alive on your skin), of care.
  
  
  So, yes, I can see that those with larger tattoos would have a better understanding of commitment. But at the same time, I wouldn't say that those without large tattoos can't also have that understanding. It really depends on the person.

• GrapeKoolaid said on Feb 19, 2008....

  I have seen some tattoos that made me think, "Now what the heck were they thinking?"  If it means something to you, it does.  Who's gonna stop you, or say otherwise, right? 
  
  It most certainly represents a commitment of some sort.  However, one begs the question(at least when it comes to those that get tattoos on their face or some of those wtf tattoos), what are they covering up? 
  
  Think of it like this.  Those goth kids that dress in black and stuff, kinda want people to stare and judge them according to their exterior.  I think they're hoping that we won't see them as vulnurable, like everybody else, and therefore, human.  They want people to focus on the exterior so that they won't have to focus on what's really going on inside. 
  
  I've always found myself to be the hardest to live with.  It's a rare blessing for someone to be truly comfortable in their own skin, I think. 
  
  I don't know if I'm making any sense or not.  I find myself fumbling for words at this moment.  I am suffering from lack of sleep, but that should hardly be an excuse. 
  

• Zayda said on Feb 19, 2008....

  Grape--The thing is, you can't use tattoos to cover up many things. They can't cover up scars for instance because tattooing across scar tissue can be very difficult. Sometimes, it depends on the scar tissue--thickness, texture, etcetera.
  
  Some tattoo artists will work around scars so the scar can be incorporated into the design and, thus, less visible as a scar. But, heck, I know tattoo artists that won't even work on people with excessive freckles because the freckles themselves can take ink funny and, thus, distort the tattoo. And if you have a sunburn or tan, they won't tattoo you either, but especially not a sunburn because peeling will peel away layers of skin and, thus, the ink.  Tattoo artists prefer to largely work on unblemished skin.
  
  You have to take really good care of your skin if you have a tattoo--not expose yourself to too much sun, etc.
  
  So, it's very rare that people are hiding anything physical with a tattoo.
  
  You could be right that they are hiding something else, but most people get tattoos--small and large--as a celebration of something--who they are, what they have gone through, and not to hide something. If you are getting big pieces like the one's LG has or is talking about, people are not going to not notice them or not notice the person with the tattoo.
  

• GrapeKoolaid said on Feb 19, 2008....

  SuperZ:  Right.  The latter part your comment was exactly what I was talking about.  You and I both know LG to be a strong, independent snarkmistress and we know she has little to hide.  Some also consider it a rite of passage, ritualistic in nature, and such.  I have a tattoo myself, though nothing big or too obvious, but I did design it myself, and it does have considerable meaning to it.  I have plans to expand on it, and eventually turn it into a part of a greater whole, but I have to work towards that. 
  
  Undoubtedly people will notice the tattoo and the person with the tattoo.  But the attention is paid to the surface, you know what I mean?  Most people simply won't get past the tattoo and try to get to know the real person underneath the ink.  I'm not saying that's right by any means.  I think it's a shame, actually.  To not be able to know LG's smarts, wit and charm just because of her tattoos seem incredibly small minded, you know?  But I think those that are tattooed kinda want that distance from the hoi poloi, too(and I for one don't blame them). 
  
  I don't know.  Just thinking out loud.  I apologize if I'm not at all clear. 
  

• Zayda said on Feb 19, 2008....

  But I think you are making a huge assumption that the attention is paid just to the surface when someone notices a tattoo. Yes, 20 or even 10 years ago, maybe people wouldn't look past the surface, but our culture has changed. How we view marked or inked bodies is markedly different now than it was a decade ago.
  
  Sure, people notice the tattoo, but perhaps they notice more or they wonder more. Maybe they wonder what kind of strength or "courage" it takes to get a piece like that. Maybe they wonder how creative the person is because the design in beautiful? Maybe the wonder what inspired the tattoo in the first place?
  
  You can't say that they are only paying attention to the surface because you can't know that.
  
  Perhaps the tattoo is what makes someone want to get to know what's on the inside in the first place. 
  

• GrapeKoolaid said on Feb 19, 2008....

  Hmm..  It appears that my old-world sensibilities remain strong after all these years, even though I've tried extra hard to assimilate myself into this culture of yours.  :) 
  
  I am a 1.5 generation immigrant, after all.  Can't deny my roots. 
  
  I think you may be right for the most part.  After all, tattoos are definitely more common now than ever before.  If I see another tribal barbed wire, I don't know if I'll be able to stifle my chortle.  :p
  
  I don't want you to think that this is a position that I take.  Like I said, I do have a tattoo of my own, and am planning on expanding it.  It will eventually cover my entire back, so I guess I should be asking, "What am I hiding?" 
  
  I guess I have no right to judge the hoi poloi, either.  Could be that I am a bit jaded in my assessment of humanity.  I'm just getting crotchety in my old age, I guess.  :D
  

• Zayda said on Feb 19, 2008....

  You, crotchety, GK? Never! :D
  
  
  Now mind you, I think there probably are still some people out there who, as you said, wouldn't look beyond the tattoo at the person. Just like there are people out there who wouldn't look beyond a scar to the person or beyond a disability to the person.
  
  
  And GK, I would suspect you aren't hiding much of anything.
  
  
  Damn, there goes my idea of getting barb-wire around my bicep the next time I go get inked. I can't have you chortling over it. ;)

• GrapeKoolaid said on Feb 19, 2008....

  LOL.  Ah...  I needed that...  Thanks for the laughs there Z. 
  
  Just had a metal picture of you sitting on a beach, wearing a dirty white t-shirt with the sleeves cut off with a barb-wire tat around your arm.  And of course, in this mental picture, you're pounding can beer out of a 30-pack.  :D
  
  To be honest, the reason why I got the tat on my back(over 10 years ago now) was so that my parents wouldn't see.  They eventually found out and was very upset.  They're over it now, but if they knew what I was planning, they'd just poop!  So I guess I am hiding something.  The tat itself.  :)
  

• Zayda said on Feb 19, 2008....

  You know, GK, I'm sorely tempted to do the barb-wire thing now. :P But not pound canned beer.
  
  
  I got mine on my lower back, which admittedly is easy to hide. My next one will be on my shoulder, which will be fairly easy to hide as well. I'm thinking about a half sleeve too though. Those aren't nearly as easy to hide.
  
  
  But, frankly, almost any of them are easy to hide if you are willing to wear long sleeve shirts and pants year round no matter the temperature. (Unless of course it's on your face or neck; although for the neck you could wear turtleneck's year round.) LG would melt if she did that; so would I. :)
  
  But then, if you are going to spend all the money to get a really large piece and it's well done, why hide it. Yes tattoos are personal for many people, but really well done large pieces can costs hundreds if not thousands of dollars. If I'm going to sink the money into a full back piece, by golly, I'm showing it off.

• GrapeKoolaid said on Feb 19, 2008....

  And the dirty white t-shirt with the sleeves cut off?  :)
  
  I have a funny relationship with tattoos, you see.  It's kinda hard to explain, but I'll try to sum it up the best that I can.  It's the (semi)artist in me that considers my body as a canvas, right?  But due to the (near)permanent nature of tattoos, I refuse to pick one out of a wall.  I have to draw it myself, and it has to have a certain meaning for me, something that I will carry for the rest of my life, something I'll believe in for the rest of my life.  Being mostly a doodler and not a real artist(by any sense of the word), it took me quite a while to finalize on a design. 
  
  The design was of an eclipse.  It has 9 rays and 9 solar flairs around it.  In numerological terms, 9 is a particular number because it represents change, right?  Because you move from the strongest single digit to the weakest double digit, representation of the waxing and waning of the moon, and hence the eclipse, which is another symbol of change.  Plus, every multiple of 9, when you add the two digits together, you get 9 again.  Plus, it's a trilogy of trilogies, plus, plus, plus.  (Oh and I'm not B'hai by the way, in case you were wondering)
  
  That eclipse is going to be the center-piece of my next work, which I have many different designs for.  I'm leaning towards an Aztec calendar right now, but I want to incorporate Shiva and a turtle into it somehow.  It's slow going, but It will be done one day.  And like you said, it'll cost a bunch, especially if the design's original. 
  
  I've inked a couple of my buddies and a couple others have the design I drew on them.  I feel quite honored to have done so.  One of my buddies has Mjolnir(the hammer of Thor) that I drew from an artifact, and another buddy has a reaper that I drew on him.  I did a horseshoe on another kid, and a crucifix on another. 
  
  Maybe I'll take pictures of my sketchbook one day and show you some of the designs. 
  

• Zayda said on Feb 19, 2008....

  Grape--I would love to see the designs if you are willing to share them some day.
  
  
  Hmmm..You know a 9 could also look like half a yin-yang symbol as well.

• carmachu said on Feb 20, 2008....

  I think it does. as you pointed out...tattoos cannot be undone without yet again, another serious commitment....

• silverwhisper said on Feb 20, 2008....

  i've never once considered that, LG. very interesting thought.
  
  leave it to you to be thought-provoking. :>
  
  ed

• LadyGamer said on Feb 21, 2008....

  Grapey Papey Purply One~ I agree that there are those who continue to look at the surface. I also agree that there are those of the inked variety who DO use this to keep people at a distance.

   

  Superdeelicious Z-meister~ Aw girl you know you sexy! Barbed wire all you need to get quality redneck man who pound beer for you!

  On the more serious side... I don't mean to belittle or diminish the smaller ink creations or the less obvious.  Nor do I believe that having hidden or smaller works means less committment.

• LadyGamer said on Feb 21, 2008....

  Carmelito's Daddy~ Exactly.

  Whispering AllKnowing One~ Well, I'm provoking anyway.

   

   

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