What is the single worst thing that a human being can be subjected to? Suffering. It is a major point of ethics to relieve suffering. If a horse is suffering and can't be helped, shoot it fast. If a dog or cat is in that position, put it to sleep. If a person is in that horrible position, let him die if he wants to. If you disagree with me, you have no heart and no brain, and you had better pray that you are never in that position yourself, and denied the right to die by some stupid bastard like yourself. That's why I call Kevorkian one of the greatest Americans who ever lived. If you don't understand that, you have no conception of freedom, and you would fit a lot better in Iran or Nazi Germany or Stalin's Russia than in America. It is a litmus test of intelligence and heart. Kevorkian's opponents are stupid heartless bastards, one and all.
Some people are homosexual. Whether they "choose" to be or are "born that way" is none of my business or yours, and is utterly irrelevant. If some homosexual wants to marry another homosexual, shut the fuck up about it you fucking stupid bigot. Mind your own fucking business. Most gay bashers are closet queers themselves. They hate in others what they despise in themselves. Definition of a gay basher - some asshole who blows strangers in public rest rooms, or wants to. This past year there were half a dozen incidents of politicians doing exactly that, and every single one of them was a Republican anti-gay voter. You have to be pretty imaginative to make this shit up. It's true. What dark desires are you hiding, prick?
The problem with Eisenhower's presidency was that he had no balls. He didn't stand up for what he believed was right. He didn't attack what he believed was wrong. For a WW2 general, he was a coward. He hated that commie hunter Joe McCarthy, and he hated Nixon. He was elected easily by a huge majority, twice. Even so, he was too much of a punk to speak his mind about McCarthy, and he accepted Nixon as his running mate even though he hated him. Don't make the mistake he made. Have the balls to stand up for what you believe in.
Unfortunately, there are many people, MOST people in fact, who have no brains at all. You can't teach them anything because they are too fucking stupid. You just have to walk away from it. You can't teach a hedgehog either. I have no patience with stupidity. Just leave the hedgehog alone.
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lfbno7 posted on Feb 16, 2008
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Comments
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brit said on Feb 16, 2008....
very well said...you can't teach an old dog new tricks and this world is full of old dogs
Kevorkian is great. Freedom is great. and yep, people should mind their own fucking business.
good post. i enjoyed reading it.
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destinydiva said on Feb 16, 2008....
well said mr 7!! :-) xx
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SeanRenaud said on Feb 16, 2008....
Wow it's been a while, but it's good to see you're still posting nonsense. You're absolutely right when it comes to Kevorkian and the right to die. Though to be fair I don't believe that anybody who holds to any major religion can claim that road. If you're suffering it's because the Big Guy is trying to teach you or the world something. Everything is part of the plan and you're a pawn. Play you're part and shut up. If you were highly evolved like me you'd follow you're own plan. But lots of people (ALIEN) and his crew are pawns to be sacrificed for a cause.I'm pro gay rights. That said it really does make a difference if people choose or if they are born that way. If they choose that's one thing, it's a lifestyle choice. Nothing wrong with that. If however they are born that way then it's a disease and it may have a cure and like any other birth defect we should look for one if such a thing exists. The idea that most gay bashers are gay is a stupid statement with no basis in truth. It's just something people made up. Not saying it never happens, just like I'm not claiming there aren't any KKK members who secretly want to Oprah to love them. But I'm willing to bet that isn't the majority of them.I don't know enough about Eisenhower on a personal level to make any real statement other than if what you claim is true bout his feelings towards those men is right then he probably was a coward. I've learned in politics that sometimes you do things you don't like because you have to.rofl. Somebody who doesn't believe in evolution is claiming other people to be morons? I find the concept funny. That said it's not that most people are morons in my experience, it's that most people are very set in their ways. Whatever they've been taught to believe they believe no matter how much evidence to the contrary is presented. -
pickersplock said on Feb 16, 2008....
Unfortunately, abuses will happen."But there are fears that the system is already being abused.
Anecdotal evidence suggests that some elderly people carry cards saying they do not want euthanasia. It is said they fear what will happen if they are suddenly hospitalised."
Opponents of euthanasia warn that the liberal attitude to euthanasia is fraught with dangers.
They say euthanasia has been offered to people suffering from depression, or even as a convenience.
Dr Ben Zylicz, of the Dutch League of Doctors, said: "I have heard about a patient where the family came from Canada because of planned euthanasia.
"The patient said, 'no, not today I don't want it anymore' and everybody pressed him saying 'look your family came from Canada, they cannot do it again'.
"In a country where euthanasia is accepted this kind of thing can happen."
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SeanRenaud said on Feb 16, 2008....
Once you get past a certain age (or condition) you should have this kind of stuff laid out and dealt with. I mean is there a risk involved? Sure there is but I would trust that if I told my wife, father, son, daughter, best friend (whomever I'm living with) that I would want to be kept alive on machines for as long as possible no matter what pain I was in that they wouldn't go and kill me.People suck but sometimes you have to believe that they will do the right thing when put in a situation. You can't say well nobody can have a car because some people might decide to use them as weapons or that the Death Penalty is wrong because it might someday put down an innocent. -
pickersplock said on Feb 16, 2008....
In 30 years Holland has moved from assisted suicide to euthanasia, from euthanasia of people who are terminally ill to euthanasia of those who are chronically ill, from euthanasia for physical illness to euthanasia for mental illness, from euthanasia for mental illness to euthanasia for psychological distress or mental suffering, and from voluntary euthanasia to involuntary euthanasia or as the Dutch prefer to call it "termination of the patient without explicit request".
It is now considered a form of discrimination against the chronically ill to deny them assisted death because they will be forced to suffer longer than those who are terminally ill and it is considered bias to force endurance of psychological pain when it is not associated with physical illness. The next step, non-voluntary euthanasia, is then justified by appealing to our social duty to care for patients who are not competent to choose for themselves
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SeanRenaud said on Feb 16, 2008....
Where is the problem? If you cannot care for yourself, and nobody in your family or friends is willing to care for you then it sucks but it's your time. -
pickersplock said on Feb 16, 2008....
You realize, that they aren't just talking about senior citizens here? -
anonymous said on Feb 16, 2008....
You realize, that we are all entitled to our own opinions here? -
beyondtheveil said on Feb 16, 2008....
I don't want some supposed do-gooder, because they are afraid to die and for their own personal reasons, to tell me what I can or can't do about my body now or when I decide to let it go.
They are both my decisions totally and not theirs. As it is now, when I'm ready to go for whatever reason, they force me to commit suicide and have my family suffer over that because there is no legal euthanasia.
Everyone, everyone, if they wish it , at the very least deserves to die with dignity.
They won't give medical care to forty million people, but will insist you die in agony with your family looking on.
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travelr712 said on Feb 16, 2008....
i never could resolve the fact that it seems inconcionable to many people that the terminally ill should not be allowed to end that suffering, but civilians in a war zone are 'acceptable collateral damage'.i actually had allot of respect for the way kavorkian did it. he set up the machine, and gave the button to the patient. that way, it was the patient's choice, and no one else's. now, i realize that this won't work in some situations, and that there are abuses of this just as there are abuses of anything else. but placing the decision in the hands of the person directly affected is the right thing to do, imo. -
wakingharmony said on Feb 16, 2008....
I too don't understand the reasoning behind it being "Humane" to put a sick Animal to sleep, and It treating "Humans" like Animals(?) when they are..... Maybe because they are no longer allowed to used animals (supposedly) for experiments and now the experiments are literately being done on humans... It is sad that they use placebos... People that are willing to be volunteers should at least get a chance for the real stuff.. like someone is going to fake getting well.....Give me a break. -
pickersplock said on Feb 16, 2008....
Euthanasia Results in the Netherlands - Number of Cases in 1990
http://www.euthanasia.com/hollchart.html
Anonymous, I never said anyone no one else had a right to their opinion. I'm trying to present the downside to having legalized euthanasia. And Beyond, of course everyone deserves to die with dignity. We just have to be very careful, or the abuses you see in the chart above can become common place.They are also withholding medical care from patients when it is deemed too much of a burden. The doctors are making these decisions, many times without the families' or the patient's consent. -
beyondtheveil said on Feb 16, 2008....
pickers- I really believe that if states wrote euthanasia into law they would legislate it almost to death to the point it would only be allowed under the most serious and stringent of circumstances.
But at least end-stage terminal people could choose, have their goodbyes, and slip away with everyone's dignity intact. That's really all I'm asking.
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lfbno7 said on Feb 16, 2008....
There are mistakes made, somewhere, with regard to ending someone's life, and those mistakes should be discussed, because we don't want to make them ourselves. But the fundamental question is - if you are suffering an unspeakably painful life with no way out, should you be allowed to decide for yourself to end it, legally? And the answer is an obvious YES. It's part of Ethics 101.
Why? Think of the alternative. You, with cancer of the liver, kidney, colon, private parts, brain, basically cancer of everything, each one metastasized everywhere, along with ALS and a throbbing and infected toe, earwax with no access to Q Tips, a huge mosquito bite on your ass that itches like hell, and your hands amputated from frostbite after an unsuccessful attempt at Everest. Your angels calling to you, cooing to you, crooning to you, come home, darling. Your soul mate in heaven crying rivers of tears missing you. It's time to go now, bunny. Time to go home. -
wakingharmony said on Feb 16, 2008....
XXOO -
lfbno7 said on Feb 16, 2008....
love you too -
quietone said on Feb 16, 2008....
Lbno ~ leave it up to you to open up a can of worms! I don't think anyone should be hooked up to a bunch of machines to be kept alive... is that really being "alive"? I would surely want to be able to scratch an itch if I needed to. -
lfbno7 said on Feb 17, 2008....
I think heaven is lovely and pain is hell. I also think I'm always right. That's because I am. I just walk past conflicting opinions like I'd walk over leaves that fell on the ground. Not worth my notice. You never ran into anyone more of an intellectual snob than your friend Lennie. No self doubt. No respect for dissenters. It comes partially from being told, from the age of 1 year old, that you're the smartest kid around, and having that confirmed every time you take an intelligence test. It comes from seeing just how stupid everyone else is. -
brit said on Feb 17, 2008....
ehehe, you're funny lfbno7!
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bluegum said on Feb 17, 2008....
lfbno7 i like what pickers has to say ,whereas your approach would frighten the shit out of me.there is no doubt some death's today are very bad death's we are keeping some people alive well after they would have died if no extreme intervention had taken place. -
lfbno7 said on Feb 17, 2008....
But I'm not sure that Pickles's approach is any different from mine. She also believes in the right of people to die with dignity. I'd probably be pretty happy with putting her in charge of the program because she would see that it doesn't get abused. I don't want people getting murdered over it. Just people in horrible pain and no realistic hope being able to die with dignity. Not someone temporarily depressed because his girlfriend called him a dunghead being allowed to off himself. -
pickersplock said on Feb 17, 2008....
Well, thank you lefty! -
travelr712 said on Feb 17, 2008....
that seems to me to be always the problem with legislating issues like this. what i mean is, if the federal government has control over whether someone can die or not, regardless of the personal circumstances, and the federal government has control over whether someone can be born or not, i.e. the abortion issue, then does that not give the federal government de facto control over our entire lives? if the government can control who lives or dies, then that control is taken out of the hands of the individual, and we more or less become 'property of the state'. so that whether the legislation is for or against euthenasia, doesn't matter. what matters is that the decision is taken away from the individual, and to me, that's just not right. -
lfbno7 said on Feb 17, 2008....
My girlfriend called me a dunghead. -
bluegum said on Feb 17, 2008....
lfbno7 your not a dhnghead mate just got a bit of meek rat in yah.
traveir712 iagree about government's having defacto control ,when my time comes i want to have the right to die with dignity idont want to live in a vegetated state,if i need help i would want someone who loved me ,the can of worms that would open in family's wouldbe huge.
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travelr712 said on Feb 17, 2008....
did you want to just record that incident for posterity lfb? btw, i don't think you're a dunghead either. i see you as very funny and an original thinker. you make me laugh nearly every day with your posts.and bluebum, that's a reason that i appreciated lfb's willingness to bring this issue up. i think the only real way to find answers to questions such as these is to get as many people as possible involved in the discussion so that many viewpoints and elements are talked about. somewhere in that discussion is a good compromise, imo. -
666devil said on Feb 17, 2008....
You Yanks are always the same... "oh poor me... I got toothache... I'm suffering" ... you gotta be shitting me right? ... next you'll be saying the Jews of Auschwitz were on a diet!! ... hello!!! ... how about the rest of the world huh? ... you Americans use 600 litres of clean water per person per day... in Africa they ain't even got 10 litres of dirty water never mind clean water... you wash your damn cars with perfectly clean drinking water for fucks sake!! ...
Open your eyes and see that the rest of the world lives in the shithouse because you yanks are the greediest nation on the planet...
Satan
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travelr712 said on Feb 17, 2008....
my god, has jessi been reincarnated as the devil? -
lfbno7 said on Feb 17, 2008....
What's a meek rat? I have no idea what your point is, blue gum. Anyway it seemed friendly to be called mate, and not a dunghead. Meek and rat don't seem too nice though. I'd think a more appropriate insult for me would be a guy who thinks he's smarter than everyone else. That shoe would fit. That's me all over.
Satan, I think Uncle Sam is the most successful selfish bastard on the planet. One billionaire or another is driving every decision, and the goal is to enrich him. And Uncle Sam is legion, composed of a few hundred multi multi multi millionaires who wouldn't pay for their own tuna sandwiches. -
lfbno7 said on Feb 17, 2008....
Thanks, Traveler. I like to be thought of as funny and an original thinker. It's better than having Sean think of me as a dumb prick. -
travelr712 said on Feb 17, 2008....
nah lfb, i know talent when i see it. i'm actually a little jealous of your ability to use sarcasm in an acceptable manor. i wish i could do it as well as you. -
SeanRenaud said on Feb 17, 2008....
ROFL. C'mon Satan you gave us the 7 perfect virtues. You can't blame us for living up to your example. -
pickersplock said on Feb 17, 2008....
I completely lost now.I thought we were discussing euthanasia.............and then there was something about car washing, and Lifebouy is a dunghead?Well, I don't agree with that at all! -
bluegum said on Feb 17, 2008....
lfbno7,i typed meekrat whereas i should have said'' meerkat '' if you go to ''wikimedia the free incyclopedia '' i t will explain the error. -
lfbno7 said on Feb 17, 2008....
Meerkat Manor is one of my favorite tv shows of all time. I love those little creatures. I actually cry over them, like when Shakespeare disappeared, or when Flower died. Wahhhhhhhh. -
silverwhisper said on Feb 18, 2008....
you know, i'm not sure i agree that the major point of ethics is to relieve suffering, exactly. to me, the major point is to conduct oneself in an ethical fashion that facilitates everyone doing their thing w/out messing up other people trying to do the same.
ed -
pickersplock said on Feb 18, 2008....
I think this was from Chapter 4 of the textbook. -
lfbno7 said on Feb 18, 2008....
Were we not on the subject of meerkats? Why are some of you digressing? -
wakingharmony said on Feb 18, 2008....
Which girlfriend called you a dunghead........"I" never called you a dunghead. Only a dung heard would do something so dung stupid! -
lfbno7 said on Feb 18, 2008....
No my sweetie pie, you didn't call me a dunghead yet. -
wakingharmony said on Feb 18, 2008....
"GIRL FRIED huh.............. he he ha haw hug ugh tomatoes! ummm sounds good !