• SeanRenaud said on Jan 12, 2008....

  What sect of Islam is trying to take over the world?

• auctiontip said on Jan 12, 2008....

   read the Quarn all of them
  
  

• auctiontip said on Jan 12, 2008....

  the koran states that later passages invalidate previous passages that dont agree with the  later passages. the koran states also that there are few choices for non believers ,  death, slavery,conversion......  nearthe end of the koran one passage states that we shall not quit until the Jihead  is complete.   literal translation of jihead is the same as the literal translation of mein kempf

• SeanRenaud said on Jan 12, 2008....

  By that logic read the Bible.  Christians Catholics and Jews have the same ideals.  With LESS tolerance in their religious books.  Muslims are called to defend Jews and Christians as fellow people of the Book.  Jews have no such commandment.  The Bible never truly defines Christians as NOT Jewish so it can be assumed that Christians wouldn't/shouldn't hurt Jews but Muslims are fair game.

• auctiontip said on Jan 12, 2008....

  again earlier passages that were wrote when muhammed was in present day Israel are superceded by later passages he wrote in medina which calls for the destructionof any non islamic values.

• SeanRenaud said on Jan 12, 2008....

  The Bible calls for the same thing, and what later passages are you speaking of and by what logic do they supercede?

• auctiontip said on Jan 12, 2008....

  sean here is a copy and paste verse from the Quran

• auctiontip said on Jan 12, 2008....

  And when ye meet those who misbelieve then striking off heads until ye have massacred them, and bind fast the bonds! 5 Then either a free grant (of liberty) or a ransom until the war shall have laid down its burdens................this is from the koran saura :47

• auctiontip said on Jan 12, 2008....

  oh and bye the way christians jews etc. dont fly airplanes into buildings Islamic believers do.

• SeanRenaud said on Jan 12, 2008....

  The only bomb abortion clinics.

• sheltercrow said on Jan 13, 2008....

  
  

  
  

  Money frees you from doing things you dislike. Since I dislike doing nearly everything, money is handy... Groucho Marx (1890 - 1977)
  
  Landless peasants of earth... Landless peasants of earth...
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

• auctiontip said on Jan 13, 2008....

   If you believe that  little clip you will believe anything.  Do you have any opinions that are yours?  You quote everyone else.
  

• desertsienna2 said on Feb 04, 2008....

  Let's consider Bush's intense racism against Arabs and Middle Eastern Muslims and the effects it has.  I fully believe the war in Iraq is about genocide.  It is not about self-defense.  Old empires out of Europe and the Middle East (Ottoman/Arab) engaged in pointless battles for land, colonialism, cultural superiority, religious fervor, economic gain, anger and opportunity.  It was all wrong and was supposed to be left behind after WWII.  Bush is just repeating the cycle.
  
  What is the difference between Bush and Hitler? Nothing.  What is the difference between what happened to the Jews, Gypsies, Serbs and other groups at the hands of Hitler and America's actions in Iraq?  Nothing.  This incites anger and it is not surprising that the war has led to complete destruction and chaos.  It is an injustice against innocent Iraqis, period.  So if you want to discuss anger, it takes both sides to have a discussion over it, not war.
  
  As for terrorism, there is no excuse for it and nothing wrong with individual opinions and intellectual debate over women's rights in Islam, terrorism, economic values, Israel and other issues.  I realize that the West is right on certain issues but with moderation, aid, trade, diplomacy and support for internal opposition movements to despotic regimes, things can change sensibly and gradually. War has led to the introduction of al-Qaeda in Chechnya and the tragedy of Beslan. 
  
  It has threatened the Chechen Independence Movement.   Such as shame, they, too,  are victims of genocide and the Azeris of Azerbaijan have been persecuted by the Armenians.  The Kosovans by the Serbs.  I feel sorry for the Serbs and Armenians as they were victimized through persecution and genocide.  I hate history repeating itself.  This is not really about being a Muslim but about politics, government, economics, poverty, illiteracy, war and racism. 
  

• SeanRenaud said on Feb 04, 2008....

  It's truly terrifying that you believe that.

• sheltercrow said on Feb 04, 2008....

  
  

  

  "this is from the koran saura :47" is quite wrong as this is one of the full quotes.
  
  

  Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.

  
  Yes auctiontip actual I do. But a response to your post may disturb you.
  
  1. The most destructive religion of modern times is not Islam its nationalism.
  
  2. I think your "use the force needed to destroy Islam, including the use of nuclear weapons" is not worth responding to.
  
  3. Your "we cannot allow the fanatical terrorist of Islam to control us" is also not worth responding to.
  
  4. Hense the clip.
  
  

• cotteralladams3 said on Feb 05, 2008....

  It's truly terrifying that people DON'T believe that.  Bush is as close to a dictator as they come.  I feel that the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians would have been solved long ago to the benefit of both sides if Bush hadn't been elected.  I understand both sides but it is not wrong to support a Palestinian homeland.   In the long run, it will help to discourage poverty, illiteracy and violence against women.  It will curb militancy.  It is just that the P.L.O. refuses to abandon the right of return for Palestinian refugees into Israel proper (according to its Green Line borders) and won't accept a compromise on land swaps.  Any opportunity for discussions was destroyed long ago.  I think both sides have their good and bad points.  Why would one be better than the other?
  
  As for Bush, he is responsible for the deaths of 850,000 innocent Iraqis.  That they are Arab and Afghans are Pashtun doesn't give him the right to kill them in their own countries.  The Pashtuns were fighting colonialism, terrorism, the Taliban and dealing with the aftermath of the Soviet invasion.  Then Bush's war machine had to come along.  I feel sorry for them.  If the U.S. doesn't want them growing opium, then the government should encourage aid, trade, diplomacy and most of all, alternative sources of income such as agriculture, textiles, manufacturing and other industries.  The people who work in those fields are wrong to do it but it is the cartels and the owners of the fields who are the problems and it can't be dealt with through war.
  

• SeanRenaud said on Feb 05, 2008....

  Seeing how it is rather devoid of the truth and is at best a lie.

• auctiontip said on Feb 06, 2008....

  so what gave them the right to attack the US in 1993 and 2001?
  
   the people in the middle east have been commiting genocide against each faction since before written history.
  

• sheltercrow said on Feb 06, 2008....

  
  Who is them?
  
  Are you condemning all the people of the Middle East?
  
  Sometimes I wonder if there are any high school graduates here.

• auctiontip said on Feb 07, 2008....

  no just those who commit the terrorist acts those who support them and those who stand by and do nothing'
    so yes
  

• sheltercrow said on Feb 08, 2008....

  "no... so yes"
  
  1. The most destructive religion of modern times is not Islam its nationalism.
  
  Your nationalism v. their nationalism. Hum...
  
  Your not aware that the United States is a major State Terrorist?
  
  "no... so yes" is a good answer. It brings out that true nationalist spirit.

• desertsienna2 said on Feb 09, 2008....

  What happened to the U.S. was tragic but had nothing to do with Islam. It had to do with political extremism. Islam doesn't espouse the values you are bringing up. Terrorism has occurred at the hands of Armenians, Irish Catholics, Hindu-Tamil Sri Lankans and others. It is not unique to any area of the world. There have been German militants and so on. During the Red Revolution, there was a lot of bloodshed and life lost. It is just another manifestation of political hatred, rivalry and violence. Any pathological and revolutionary movement brings these elements out in the fringes of society. The people who form these groups often receive support, training and assistance from their governments, military and business elite (Saudi Arabia, Syria, etc.) or else, from overseas through their diasporas and refugees.

• SeanRenaud said on Feb 09, 2008....

  Ok no you're simply lying.  Islam does in fact espose these values.  So do Christians and Jews but they don't really believe anymore so it's ok.

• sheltercrow said on Feb 09, 2008....

  SR: Do you ever understand what you're talking about? You never quite choke anything out that can be understood.

• SeanRenaud said on Feb 10, 2008....

  If you are claiming that Islam does not have tenets that clearly support the murder of non believers, amongst other sinners you're either liying or delusional.  To claim that Judaism doesn't have these same values is again a lie or a delusion.  You can atleast kinda argue that Christianity doesn't via the Jesus died for all sins route but taken to it's logical extreme that's a much worse philosophy.

• desertsienna2 said on Feb 10, 2008....

  People fight over many issues, sometimes they involve religious fundamentalism, but often there are economic, national and political issues at stake. What people blame religion for is often related to various colonial empires, political authority, business elites, militaries, prejudices, corruption and other matters. The Ayatollah Khomeini and Mahmoud Ahmedinejad formed dictatorships in Iran, which came out of the revolution and American interference. This is why I criticize American foreign policy so harshly. Nobody wants another war in the Middle East and the U.S. government is forcing it instead of supporting the peace process (though I do not blame Israel for one minute for acting in self-defense against them, whatever my views on the peace process and Palestine). Political and religious issues may be related but that doesn't mean the political sentiments of a leader reflect Islam or any other religion. King Hussein was a remarkable leader in Jordan and so is Hosni Mubarak in Egypt but you never hear or read anything positive about Arab leaders.  What did the West do, especially the U.S.?  They supported Suharto in Indonesia and Musharraf in Pakistan.  Look at how that went.
  

• sheltercrow said on Feb 10, 2008....

  SR: I would think that religious terror is quite common for Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
  
  Christian terrorism is religious terrorism by those whose motivations and aims have a predominant Christian character or influence.
  
  

• sheltercrow said on Feb 10, 2008....

  DS: as you have shown imperial terrorists has always used Judaism, Christianity and Islam as an excuse to destroy their enemies. These criminals use religion as a means for their own ends.
  

• desertsienna2 said on Feb 12, 2008....

  Terrorism is about imperialism, hate and political extremism. It can be about greed and power. It usually exists in undemocratic societies. It can take on a religious nature but that doesn't mean it reflects the true nature of a religion. I doubt that Catholics around the world really condone the actions of the I.R.A. but that doesn't mean it reflects the average belief system of a Catholic. As for Judaism, there have been acts such as the Hebron Massacre in a mosque in 1994, Deir Yessin, and there was something on a man who blew up a car in Palestine in 1993 on a Christiane Amanpour special. It is more about the mentality behind terrorism that what religion these people follow.

• desertsienna2 said on Feb 12, 2008....

  Universal aspects of Fundamentalism in all religions

  This article does not cite any references or sources. (February 2008)
  Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unverifiable material may be challenged and removed.

  Fundamentalists believe their cause to have grave and even cosmic importance. They see themselves as protecting not only a distinctive doctrine, but also a vital principle, and a way of life and of salvation. Community, comprehensively centered upon a clearly defined religious way of life in all of its aspects, is the promise of fundamentalist movements, and it therefore appeals to those adherents of religion who find little that is distinctive, or authentically vital in their previous religious identity.

  The fundamentalist "wall of virtue", which protects their identity, is erected against not only other religions, but also against the modernized, nominal version of their own religion. In Christianity, fundamentalists can be known as "born again" and "Bible-believing" Protestants, as opposed to "mainline", "liberal", "modernist" Protestants. In Islam there are jama'at (Arabic: (religious) enclaves with connotations of close fellowship) fundamentalists self-consciously engaged in jihad (struggle) against the Western culture that suppresses authentic Islam (submission) and the God-given (Shari'ah) way of life. In Judaism fundamentalists are Haredi "Torah-true" Jews. There are fundamentalist equivalents in Hinduism and other world religions. These groups insist on a sharp boundary between themselves and the faithful adherents of other religions, and finally between a "sacred" view of life and the "secular" world and "nominal religion". Fundamentalists direct their critiques toward and draw most of their converts from the larger community of their religion, by attempting to convince them that they are not experiencing the authentic version of their professed religion.

  Many scholars see most forms of fundamentalism as having similar traits. This is especially obvious if modernity, secularism or an atheistic perspective is adopted as the norm, against which these varieties of traditionalism or supernaturalism are compared. From such a perspective, Peter Huff wrote in the International Journal on World Peace:

  "According to Antoun, fundamentalists in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, despite their doctrinal and practical differences, are united by a common worldview which anchors all of life in the authority of the sacred and a shared ethos that expresses itself through outrage at the pace and extent of modern secularization." [6]
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_fundamentalism#Universal_aspects_of_Fundamentalism_in_all_religions
  

• desertsienna2 said on Feb 12, 2008....

  Moderate to Conservative Perspective vs. Fundamentalist Perspective
  
  Take, for example, the people who look for a Biblical basis for supporting Israel, they might use one of these passages:
  
   12 As the sun was setting, Abram fell into a deep sleep, and a thick and dreadful darkness came over him. 13 Then the LORD said to him, "Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and mistreated four hundred years. 14 But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterward they will come out with great possessions.
  
  Genesis 15:12-14 (NIV)
  
  

  Genesis 17:8-10 (New International Version)

  8 The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God."

   9 Then God said to Abraham, "As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. 10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised.

  
  However, those who support the settler's movement in Palestine and the notion of the Greater Israel (partly derived to prevent a future Palestinian state in Gaza and the West Bank) would use this quote to support their beliefs:
  
   17 When the sun had set and darkness had fallen, a smoking firepot with a blazing torch appeared and passed between the pieces. 18 On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram and said, "To your descendants I give this land, from the river [d] of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates- 19 the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, 20 Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, 21 Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites."
  
  Genesis 15:17-21 (NIV)
  
  These people support the Greater Israel into Jordan, a legal country with its own borders and an Arab Muslim majority of Palestinians, Jordanians, Saudi Arabians and other groups with small minorities of Christians and Chechens.
  

• auctiontip said on Mar 04, 2008....

   So its agreed now among us that terrorism is just an agent of religion?  Or has religion been the excuse for terrorism?  For the people that say that Bush is the closest thing to a dictator we have seen in the US I would like to point out that he doesnt even place in the top two.  FDR used his position  to truly obliterate the US constitution. We are still paying for the damage today 65 tears later.  President Lincoln threw the constitution and threw it out the door.  I guess the point I am tring to make is sometimes good things happen even to those that dont follow the constituiton to the letter at all times.

• sheltercrow said on Mar 05, 2008....

  
  A leader in the French revolution, Maximilien Robespierre, proclaimed in 1794, “Terror is nothing other than justice, prompt, severe, inflexible; it is therefore an emanation of virtue; it is not so much a special principle as it is a consequence of the general principle of democracy applied to our country's most urgent needs.”
  
  While the United Nations has not yet accepted a definition of terrorism, the UN's "academic consensus definition," written by terrorism expert Alex P. Schmid and widely used by social scientists, runs:
  
  

  
  Terrorism is an anxiety-inspiring method of repeated violent action, employed by (semi-) clandestine individual, group or state actors, for idiosyncratic, criminal or political reasons, whereby — in contrast to assassination — the direct targets of violence are not the main targets. The immediate human victims of violence are generally chosen randomly (targets of opportunity) or selectively (representative or symbolic targets) from a target population, and serve as message generators. Threat- and violence-based communication processes between terrorist (organization), (imperiled) victims, and main targets are used to manipulate the main target (audience(s)), turning it into a target of terror, a target of demands, or a target of attention, depending on whether intimidation, coercion, or propaganda is primarily sought (Schmid, 1988).

  
  Jason Burke, an expert in radical Islamic activity, has this to say on the word "terrorism":
  
  

  
  "There are multiple ways of defining terrorism, and all are subjective. Most define terrorism as 'the use or threat of serious violence' to advance some kind of 'cause'. Some state clearly the kinds of group ('sub-national', 'non-state') or cause (political, ideological, religious) to which they refer. Others merely rely on the instinct of most people when confronted with innocent civilians being killed or maimed by men armed with explosives, firearms or other weapons. None is satisfactory, and grave problems with the use of the term persist. Terrorism is after all, a tactic. The term 'war on terrorism' is thus effectively nonsensical. As there is no space here to explore this involved and difficult debate, my preference is, on the whole, for the less loaded term 'militancy'. This is not an attempt to condone such actions, merely to analyse them in a clearer way."

  
  

Comment on "Islam trying to conquer the world"

Currently tagged	islam worldconquest politics religion (Click to add tags below)
Tag this post	(Separate tags using commas, for example: New York, dating, vegetarian)
Your comment
	Comment Anonymously