• Mamie said on Jan 08, 2008....

  hey Black, good morning...I like this piece very much. I can see both sides of what you are saying. I just hope that you will eventually see the joy and value in the normal days. Yes they are not high nor are they low but they are joyful. They can be fun and brilliant. They can make you laugh and create and feel inspired..i wish I could help you realize that....in some way, for now, I will just send this (((((((((((((hug))))))))))). I hear you and I am here if you want to talk...mamie

• blackthorn28 said on Jan 08, 2008....

  Thank you for reading this, Mamie. I wish that I could see the potential in normal days. They aren't bad, certainly. It's better than being depressed. But there's a certain emptiness I feel on those days. Uninspired. Unimportant. It's very hard to describe. But I do understand what you're saying too. Thank you for being here and listening and taking the time to comment.

• Mamie said on Jan 08, 2008....

  ya know sometimes none of us can see the potential in the normal days. Who has normal days anyway?

   If you have read any of my blogs you may know that I am learned in the school of depression. It is so heavy. It is so painful and so deblilitating. I donot know the good buzz of manic=ism...but I have read that it is not all completely good either. Is that true? Aren't there pendulum swings into scary things then too?

  I have been thinking about that today, because I was taking an antidepressant back in the cancer treatment days...and I did not feel low, but I did not feel high, nor did I feel good...I felt nothing. I did not like that either. But I never considered not taking the treatment until I found other ways of recovery. Depression stayed long after the chemo was over and then I was cured of cancer! And still I was not happy. I had more work to do, you see.

  I don't think I am explaining this as well as I would like. I just know that I had never considered that there may be people who do not want to give up the low side if it meant giving up the high side. Very intriguing to me...I am sorry for your struggle, but we all have one and there will always be many different sides to every single one.

  I hope you have a relaxing, peace filled night.  Pleasant dreams.

• blackthorn28 said on Jan 08, 2008....

  Mamie, I'm sorry to learn you've had your own struggle with depression. I didn't know that. I liked the few blogs of yours that I read because they seemed really positive. I liked your soul series. But I didn't delve back far enough. I'll have to read more.
  
  There are such varying degrees of depression and manic depression. Sometimes people with mania can be really out there. Sometimes violent or aggressive. That's never been me though. I think it's just not in my nature to be like that, even with this weird thing happening in my brain.
  
  In fact, for years, no one ever would have thought there was anything wrong at all with my 'good' moods. People just thought I was really energetic and funny and insightful. I was a little extreme at times, but never in a negative way. People just thought I was a little different and quirky. But for some people, it's a lot worse. The bad side of the mania for me is that I don't sleep very much. But I'm usually not tired either. Eventually it catches up to me though, and then when I get down, all I want to do is sleep.
  
  That feeling you describe about taking the anti-depressants and feeling nothing? That's exactly how I felt taking them too. And yes, it sounds really weird I'm sure to think that someone might be willing to suffer through horrible depression if it means feeling a high at some point in the future. It makes sense to me, but I'm biased.
  
  Are you still having troubles with this yourself? If you are, I hope you have found something that helps you.

• Mr_Box said on Jan 08, 2008....

  Well blackthorn, I understand your dilemma. I think it is common amongst people who suffer from this illness.

  That's why so many of them don't get help or don't bother to take their meds if they do get help.

  But you do need to think of other people in your life too. Yes, you love the highs. But if you're not sleeping and acting strange, whether it's harmless or not, what does your girlfriend think of that?

  Wouldn't you rather be sleeping in bed with her all night, rather than being awake creating new inspirations or whatever it is you do?

  And how about the way your depression affects her and the rest of the people who know and care about you?

  Maybe you feel willing to hang onto it, in order to keep the high, but are they willing to watch you suffer and talk about wanting to leave this place every time you're down?

  You do not strike me as a selfish type at all. You think you're an angel. So being selfish doesn't play into that.

  But to keep yourself unwell simply because you like feeling manic, you are being selfish. You aren't thinking about how your illness affects the other people in your life.

  If you don't like the medicines, search for alternative treatments. Herbal remedies, spiritual guidance, meditation, therapy. Do something.

  Leave the medicine as a last resort if you want. But don't just sit there and hope you won't get depressed again. Because you know you will.

  You said it's a cycle, so you know it's going to come back. If not for yourself, do something for the people who care about you.

   

• blackthorn28 said on Jan 08, 2008....

  Maybe you are right, Mr_Box. Maybe it is selfish? I guess that's why when I get in those bad moods, I don't want to be around anyone. But I know that's not really a solution. I can't really expect everyone to just accept that I want hide away for a few days every time this happens. Especially because I know people worry about me then. I'm still confused though. I will remember what you said though. It's something to really think about. Thank you for pointing out that it's selfish. Because I really don't want to be like that at all. 

• gingersoul said on Jan 08, 2008....

  Black......you explained with depth and clarity your depression.....i think having the complete understanding of your own situation and knowing how to deal with it and how not to is something that doesnt lift the pain......

  You know that you are "better" when you are not really yourself....but indeed even then you are yourslef....only...altered....

  Losing your soul because of medications is a though decisions...but risking to lose the love of whom you love is also a though decision...

  I feel your pain...

  I had one boyfriend last year who was bi-polar. He confessed to me his condition after our third date. He wanted be honest and open with me. But he thought i might be scared of it and shut him out. He got impressed by  the fact i didnt faze, actually.

  He told me he met me in a balanced moment of his cycles...we have been together only 3 months......one day he called me from Colorado where he was spending Thanksgiving and he was very agitated.....he was talking about moving to another city and needing time alone....   

  After that call he never called me again. We never seen each other again. He just disappeared. I had only his ceIl and i had never been to his place. He indeed moved in another city as i found out later. I have not been mad at him though. I had to accept the fact that his own demons had talken him away from me.

  Where you own demons can take you, Black, if you dont control them? 

• blackthorn28 said on Jan 08, 2008....

  Gingersoul, I don't know exactly where my demons might take me. I want to control them. But I understand why your boyfriend disappeared. I think it's a common feeling that people with this illness have. We don't want the people we care about to see us when we're in a bad state like that. But it's unfortunate that he actually followed through with that feeling and never came back. I don't want to be that person...
  
  It seems like it should be an easy decision for me to make. I don't want to be the person who leaves or upsets other people with my behavior and moods. But I don't want to be a zombie either. That's why I was trying so desperately to control this with mind over matter. And I think I was doing okay for awhile. But I'm not sure if it's possible to really control this fully without medications. And this is where I get stuck.
  
  I do know that in the past, the low moments would last for a lot longer. It would be weeks that I'd be down and not wanting to leave my house at all. And now it usually lasts a few days, and I'm better. I've made progress. Maybe I can keep making progress? I hope so.
  

• gingersoul said on Jan 08, 2008....

  I am glad you indeed made progress....days are more bearable of weeks ....i wish you to decrease your black outa to only hours, seconds.....

  Have a peaceful night, Black.....goodnight ......:-)

• crybabylu said on Jan 08, 2008....

  How long have you been on medication?  Did I miss that?  I think you still can achieve the brilliance, without the high-high.

  Meaning, even with the "meds" there are times of inspiration, and intellectual achievement. It just doesn't come with the real high that you are use to.

  Would like to talk to you more about this.  May I send you a pm?

• chickensmother said on Jan 09, 2008....

  Black, again, I can so relate to being scared, fearing and even loathing the 'normalcy', that elated 'normalcy' that is being lauded it seems like by everyone around me, and is the ideal i am supposed to pursue. I know for me, depression is so familiar, like a cozy sweater that I wear that I can lose myself in, and how could I want to go to the unknown, I am so afraid it would be disappointing or just plain boring.
  I also still dismiss the idea of taking drugs, even though I know they are necessary sometimes, but I guess I have this philosophical dilemma that this doesn't solve anything? If I struggle with the meaning of life and the idea of death, then take drugs so I could be a normal functioning member of society and good friend, etc. isn't that too easy? It wouldn't give me any answers, just make me forget the question. I don't know...maybe I am wrong.
  I know during periods when I am more elevated and happier...eventually I start to crave the dark, creative, intense place of depression, the place from which i can create art or think up cool things...It's all contradictory because of course then after a while I get tired of being down and bleak, and wish I could get better. Ahhh....

• hotaka said on Jan 09, 2008....

  So, this is a clinical thing? I was just trying to look at it from another point of view. Instead of thinking that after every high period you crash back down again maybe you could think of it as after every low period you rise up again. When you crash, instead of feeling down about the high you lost try to look forward to the next high. Everything goes in cycles and it seems you really appreciate those highs. Night follows day; day follows night. Look forward to the next morning and cherish the day that has passed.
  
  I don't know if it helps but it's a thought.
  

• Mamie said on Jan 09, 2008....

  wow, this is a great conversation! How are you today, Black? See what you have inspired here?
  And you said you are only on the upswing...digging out, rising up...I would have to say, you have the inspiration in you always, I guess it just depends on how much credit you are willing to give yourself at any given moment.

  I am not sure that managing or not managing anxiety is a selfish act...what if it is just survival?

  Oh, yes, I still manage this situation in my own life. But no, I am not struggling with it anymore. I have found a way out and I am focused and excited about it. Yes I have meds to support me.
  Also, because I am "special" (said with sarcasm), God elected to let me have post chemo diabetes....ah, the wonders never cease! So what pray tell shall I conquer next? Who knows.

  So the question we face today is: if there was a way that would allow us a better balance, no highs, no lows, but a strong HAPPY medium....would we give up the negative emotions that we know and love for the positive emotions that we are not used to yet? What if balance was the real key to unlock all that is good, and we get too afraid to ever try the key?

  Would that be a good idea to try? Would we do it?

  best, mamie

   

• blackthorn28 said on Jan 09, 2008....

  Gingersoul, thank you. I hope to someday have only moments of black, and then right back to the light again.
  
  crybabylu, I am not on any medication. I am supposed to be. The doctors want me to be on it, but so far I have refused. In the past, I did take it and I was unhappy with the way it made me feel. I didn't get depressed, but I was unable to experience joy either. I felt nothing. It was a robotic existence. I was unable to think about anything other than day to day life, and I lost all my creativity. The way I am now, even if this is a so-called 'normal' state, I'm still not hindered with medications. My mind is fully functioning. So I fear the medicines, because when I'm on them, my mind is shut off. If you'd like to speak me, you can. Thanks.
  
  chickensmother, I completely and totally understand everything you've said here. Especially where you said it wouldn't give you answers, only make you forget the question. I never want to get to that state. I feel like who I am is a person that must search and think and if I can't do it, I'm nothing. I've read that most of the greatest minds and artists all suffered from some form of depression. I believe it. As hard as it is to fathom, there is inspiration in darkness. That's why so many poems and songs are sad ones.
  
  hotaka, what you said is true to a certain extent. When I'm feeling like I am now, neither high or low, I can look forward to going up again. But when a person is in a pit of despair, unfortunately you can't really see any hope or light at the end. Even if you know it's coming. Something just switches off in your mind and you can't see it.
  
  Mamie, thank you for saying I've inspired something here. Maybe I am still capable of flashes of something good even in a normal state? But my natural 'normal' state is a lot different than a chemically induced one, unfortunately. I still have the real me in there somewhere, peeking out. With medicines, that person becomes numbed and silenced. I am sorry you've been through so much. I feel rather selfish to complain about having an illness of the mind, when my body is healthy. I should be more thankful of that. If I can achieve more of a balance on my own without medications, I would be willing to try....
  

• PAPERBACKWRITER said on Jan 09, 2008....

  Hello blackthorn28,
  
  I am PBW, please call me paper.
  
  Your words and the corresponding interaction that ensued were soothing for a frantic mind.  I am thankful to have had the luck of stumbling upon them. 
  
  Today, I shed tears I have been holding back for so long.  I apologise if I am a bit vague.  My mind is having difficulty stringing words to articulate what I feel.
  
  I am in a dark hole at the moment, and I am like you aware I would crawl out of it and see the light.
  
  Until then, I can only say thank you for your courageness in sharing your own struggle and giving strength to others to cope with their own.
  
  Warm regards,
  
  paper
  
  
  

• Mamie said on Jan 10, 2008....

  oh my gosh, this is so huge! So if we can find a new balance of things, without meds, lets try it! I read recently that if you are not able to manifest a change in a situation that you should at least seek to find a small measure of relief...meaning that relief would move us "up" the scale of emotions in a baby step vs. a real noticable change. Interesting, yes?
   
  BTW, did I tell you on one of your posts that my girlfriends daughter is newly diagnosed with bp? WELL, I copied your story here and emailed it to the mom....she emailed me this morning saying that she is crying her eyes out with RELIEF because for the first time she is maybe coming to understand how her daughter may be feeling...esp. as it relates to not wanting to take any meds,...which the mom could not make sense of at all. She was saying...if we have a diagnosis and there is a remedy then how can you not do it?
   
  YOU have reached her/them and allowed for them a measure of comfort on this day. I thank you for that. They mean a lot to me and your story made them "see" with their eyes as well as their hearts. blessed be, mamie

• blackthorn28 said on Jan 10, 2008....

  Paper, I'm very glad that what I wrote soothed you. It's very hard to be in that hole and I hope that you are able to see the light soon. It's a difficult struggle, but if my words can somehow help another person, then I'm very glad I decided to share them. I wish you light very soon.
  
  Mamie, my story helped your friend? That's a great compliment. I know that this illness is confusing for a lot of people to understand. Most people if they find out they have a treatable problem, will go get treated. If it were an infection, would I refuse antibiotics? No. But this is just so much more complicated. And if my words brought comfort or understanding to someone important to you, then I've done my job. Do you have any plans for finding the balance? Because I'd love to hear them.
  

• hotaka said on Jan 10, 2008....

  Yeah, I can understand that feeling. When things go poor around here I immediately begin thinking about how to continue my life with thsi new dreadful situation. How can I continue and be alright. Then the rough moment passes and I feel good again. I know what you mean. I was just trying to be possitive about it.

• Mamie said on Jan 10, 2008....

  hey, I sure do: I am working on a new soul series and this mayb e a part of that, I am not sur eyet...but for now: this is what we will do (yes, you, get a pen)
  There are four statements that we will make to support what we want. We will proclaim what we want because we already know what we don't want. We will not confuse those two things. Focusing on one more than the other causes this unbalanced situation. Lets pursue balance.
   
  We will not be meditating on this: this is simply a call out: this is what I want. The exercise goes like this...
  1. THIS IS WHAT I DESIRE FOR MY MIND: (write a few statements of what you want)
  2. THIS IS WHAT I WANT FOR MY BODY
  3.THIS IS WHAT I WANT FOR MY HOME
  4. THIS IS WHAT I WANT FOR MY WORK.
   
  Now go back to each statement of desire: and add a comma, and finish the sentence answering WHY you want what you want.
  Do not apply a "how". Do not apply a 'when'. HARD PART: state them and then give them to the universe to do.
  Give it a try. See what happens. What we are searching for is a sense of relief vs. actual achievement. The relief will build and raise our emotions to a higher positive feeling. It is all about how we feel.
   
  This is my first step to being on balance.
   

• blackthorn28 said on Jan 10, 2008....

  hotaka, there is nothing wrong at all with being positive. And everyone goes through hard times where they're not sure how they'll make it through. Even people who are pictures of mental health, have likely had those thoughts. And it does pass and things do get better again. It's always important to try and remember that even when it feels impossible to do so.
  
  Mamie, I will try this exercise an see what happens. Leaving it up to the universe to do. I like your way of thinking. And I'm definitely willing to give it a try.
  

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