• ALIENated said on Dec 27, 2007....

  Liberals tend to take stupid things and turn them into causes (like global warming,
  abortion, torture, gay rights, yadda yadda yadda) and blow them all out of
  proportion. That is just what they do. It is too funny when someone calls their
  bluff.
  

• D6fer said on Dec 27, 2007....

  oh get ready for all the poo-poo on my sources....bloc....ed....who-ever will have something to say about it....although they seem to be silent on the subject somewhat lately.....completely ignored my last post on the subject.

• silverwhisper said on Dec 28, 2007....

  d6: i don't know if you've noticed but i don't actually get all riled up about global warming. i leave that to others. i haven't really been online for about 2 weeks or so, actually, up until yesterday.
  
  alienated: b/c conservatives have no stupid ideas at all. of course. i should have understood that.[/sarcasm]
  
  ed

• ALIENated said on Dec 28, 2007....

  Oh, conservatives have their stupid ideas, too. There is ... ah ... ah ... If you
  count going to war ... no, Kennedy got us into Vietnam. So that is a shared
  deal ... ah ... ah ... I know conservatives oppose most liberal ideas, so to
  liberals, I guess those look like bad ideas.
  

• SeanRenaud said on Dec 28, 2007....

  Global Warming is a fact, not a myth.  The debate is over what if any effect humans have on it.  What I find curious is that people think it's a bad thing where as palentology (I know you don't believe in dinosaurs ALIEN, Satan put them there to confuse us into forsaking God, the grown ups have to have their conversation though) has shown that life prefers warm (and wet) climates.  Wether its looking back to dinosaurs and how large they were able to grow, or looking back to the stone age and great bears, cats, dire wolves, ground sloths or even more recently during the mideval warming period where colonies were founded on Greenland.  Today thanks to global warming they are begining to be able to grow crops there again. 

• D6fer said on Dec 28, 2007....

  I have never meant for anyone to think that I am claiming global warming is a myth....just man made global warming....but the left is trying like hell to make the 2 synonymous ....not only warming, but cooling now means warming....snow fall means warming...hurricanes....tornados....wild fires...the next ice age...all global warmings fault....man made that is! Bullshit!

• sheltercrow said on Dec 28, 2007....

  
  Here you go Mr. D this is just as cryptic as your post ...These pieces look scientific to the layperson (they have equations! references to 19th Century physicists!), but like cuckoo eggs in a nest, they are only designed to look real enough to fool onlookers and crowd out the real science. A cursory glance from anyone knowledgeable is usually enough to see that concepts are being mangled, logic is being thrown to the winds, and completetly unjustified conclusions are being drawn - but the tricks being used are sometimes a little subtle...
  

• D6fer said on Dec 28, 2007....

  are you talking about the scientists that are trying to sell us this load of b.s. that is man made global warming?

• ALIENated said on Dec 28, 2007....

  As much as I despise the philosophy of the TV show Boston Legal, I 
  would not miss it (I love anything with William Shatner). They had a great 
  show the other night about a trial concerning global warming. They put it
  down pretty good. I was really surprised at their take on it. It will probably
  rerun in a month or two. Try to catch it. They said it so well, how stupid it
  all is. How futile our attempts to affect it are. How, by doing an alternate
  thing, we cause more harm than the original thing. For example, electric cars
  and the batteries to power them. They went into what it takes to make batteries
  and all the energy required. Ha ha ha. Liberals will fall for anything.
  

• sheltercrow said on Dec 29, 2007....

  Mr. D
   
  Whatever the reasons for global warming are, whether from mens actions or squirrel poop, the consequences are going to be with us for the rest of our lives. Some people accept only the facts that fit their political notions. And I suppose some select the facts to amuse their... um... friends. As I see it their is not really a debate, there are just amusing personal rants. It takes all the fun out of the subject.

• kelly said on Dec 31, 2007....

  Actually, while I feel it would be very prudent to worry about the man-made component of global warming I just can't get as woked up about it as I should be.  Ultimately the human race will probably be OK, it's just that some places, such as the US, will end up on the short end while those in the more polar extremes will start enjoying more economic success due to rapidly expanding real estate and warmer climates.
  
  
  Of course, mother nature is going to have to adapt quickly as well.  That doesn't always happen too well.

• D6fer said on Dec 31, 2007....

  sure...in what year? 12897?

• kelly said on Jan 01, 2008....

  Nope.  Probably a lot sooner than you think.  Oil companies are already lining up to take advantage of the expanding terrain on Greenland (Iceland? One of the two.) due to retreating glacial and snow cover.
  
  
  I can see you're bent on making this a "liberal" issue, however.  But I really have no desire or even reason to try to change your mind on this one.  As I have already stated, I'm not too concerned about humanity at the moment.

• SeanRenaud said on Jan 01, 2008....

  The thing is that Greenland being free of ice and snow isn't the same thing as America being under water.

• sheltercrow said on Jan 01, 2008....

  Greenland (the one with all the ice and glaciers) being free of ice and snow =  America being under water.
   
  Ice sheet models project that such a warming would... resulting in a global sea level rise of about seven meters. Such a rise would inundate almost every major coastal city in the world.

• Ormocanon said on Jan 01, 2008....

  It occurred to me a while ago while I was reading some of the comments here, that many of those poor south pacific islanders must have been scratching their heads up to now and wonder why the heck their islands are going under water.

• SeanRenaud said on Jan 01, 2008....

  America has many cities that aren't coastal.

• D6fer said on Jan 01, 2008....

  I'm scratching my head now.....which pacific Islands are under water?

• Ormocanon said on Jan 01, 2008....

  "I'm scratching my head now.....which pacific Islands are under water?"- D6
  
  I'm referring to the Island of Tegua, in Vanuato.
  Here's another link
  
  Here's an interesting item from the National Geographic News
  as far back as April,2000
  

• sheltercrow said on Jan 01, 2008....

  America has many cities that aren't coastal.
   
  Well hum... what is the point of this.. um... fact?
   
  Mr. S are we going to be serious or something else?
   
  The concern is... that this warming trend will follow it's own logical patterns for it's own reasons. Human kind be damned. To argue the politics of what the reasons are is a waste of breath because mother nature has given us a warning and she does not debate. Either we do something to stop or slow global warming or our fate will be to become just another failed species and most of human kind in the near future will perish.

• D6fer said on Jan 02, 2008....

  Ormocanon....the source article you posted said that "the rising seas seem to be linked to climate change"......things aren't always as they "seem"
  
  did anyone read the post source article?
  

• Ormocanon said on Jan 02, 2008....

  I was able to read it D6, but, like what sheltercrow says,
  "mother nature has given us a warning and she does not debate."
  
  So, whether or not global warming had something to do with it, the fact is, sea levels are rising.
  
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jan 02, 2008....

  How can you say that Ormo?  If global warming isn't the reason the sea levels are rising (and rising sea levels is a bad thing) then anything you do to prevent global warming might just exacerbate the problem. 

• Ormocanon said on Jan 02, 2008....

  "How can you say that Ormo?  If global warming isn't the reason the sea levels are rising (and rising sea levels is a bad thing) then anything you do to prevent global warming might just exacerbate the problem." -Sean
  
  You know Sean, here's what I think...I think global warming causes the ice shelves in the Arctic, Antarctic and the land-based ice shelves in Greenland to melt at a considerably fast pace, which in turn causes the rise in sea levels world wide.
  
  ...either that or an organization of medicine men, intent on world domination, have been doing their rain dance daily for many years now   :D
  
  
  

• SeanRenaud said on Jan 02, 2008....

  I agree with that believe, but "So, whether or not global warming had something to do with it, the fact is, sea levels are rising."  You seemed to be admitting that the system may be more complicated than simple global warming.  I also note that you haven't been particularly hammering home that humans are a primary cause, which of course is the true heart of this debate.
  
  
  

• Ormocanon said on Jan 02, 2008....

  "I also note that you haven't been particularly hammering home that humans are a primary cause," -Sean
  
  Sean, take a look at this...
  

• kelly said on Jan 02, 2008....

  "I also note that you haven't been particularly hammering home that humans are a primary cause, which of course is the true heart of this debate."
  
  
  That's actually a moot point.  When the ship is going down it doesn't matter so much at the moment whose fault it is, what matters is getting into the lifeboats.  Or possibly patching the gaping hole in the hull.  Still, it will be a lot more exciting in the long run if we listen to people like D6fer and do nothing.
  
  
  
  

• D6fer said on Jan 03, 2008....

  man you guys are going to be eating a lot of crow someday! check it out!

• curmudgeon said on Jan 03, 2008....

  Sean rightly pointed out Greenland as an example of the impact of climate change. 1000 years ago, Greenland was arable enough to export agricultural products to Scandinavia. Climate change (most arguably not human-induced) took that away. But humans do what science tells us all life does on this planet - it adapts or dies off.
   
  The climate will change - with catastrophic consequences for human and other existing life forms - whether we "do something" about it or not. The best thing we can do to ensure survival for most of the poor on this Earth is to help their societies develop both economy and infrastructure. 
   
  Driving less, installing compact fluorescents, capping industrial emissions, and placing constraints on developing countries will not accomplish this. If anything, it will leave the poorest people just as vulnerable to droughts, flooding, and severe storms as they are now.
   
  In other words, it behooves us to prioritize adaptation, not invest our resources in a scheme that has not been demonstrated or otherwise proven in any way other than maybe computer modeling to deliver the desired outcome.
   
  Unfortunately, liberals won't bear any of this.
   
  BTW - Sean: "Wet" does seem to be one prerequisite for life on Earth, but "warm", not so. Some types of algae (I think) have been found sticking to the underside of sea ice in Antarctica. Apparently the salt water creates a thin film which gives just enough room (and warmth, if you want to call it that) for life to grow. We're finding that life grows in far more extreme temperatures that we currently know. Not that you have expressed this, but there's absolutely no reason to believe that if Earth warms life will not adapt, go on and continue to thrive.

• kelly said on Jan 03, 2008....

  Curm has a point.  Not a well thought out one, but he does have a point.  We'll see how he feels about caps in carbon emissions when China finally starts to really consume.
  
  
  By the way, could you please fix the spelling of "courageous?"

• SeanRenaud said on Jan 04, 2008....

  Just because life can find a way to survive doesn't make them ideal circumstances Curm.  You'll notice more and larger lifeforms live in the tropcis than in the artic and antartic.
   
  I suppose if you believe that the boat is sinking and nothing can be done about it then your right, it doesn't matter who's fault it is it's just a matter of getting to a new boat that isn't sinking.  (though I'd still like to know what sank the first one so I don't do it again.)
   
  If however we can do something to fix the enviroment, which many believe we can it behooves us to find out what we are doing wrong and find ways to improve on it. 
   
  If for example global warming is an entirely natural phenomon that we are having little effect on then we don't need to worry about carbon caps, we need to worry about starting to build ocean walls, or just abandoning the coastlines.  We need to work with the data we have to try to improve the future, rather than trying to empty the Titanic with pails.

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