I had a long discussion with a friend of mine over several drinks. It got Kind of heated and I thought about it all the way home. I still can't quite make it out, but I think I'm getting close.
First, my arguement:
Batman is not a superhero. He' s a billionaire sociopath driving around at night looking for a fight. When you get busted by Batman, and he puts his batcuffs on you, where's your due process? Miranda rights? Gotham Police doesn't want that kind of a liability, that's a lawsuit waiting to happen. Even if the criminal goes to court, will Batman show up to testify? In his costume? Probably not.
Batman contributes to the revolving door justice system, that is if he participates in the justice system at all. He's a vigilante that needs to be brought to justice if Gotham City truly wants the restoration of law and order. Plus, if I had all those cute themed toys and the funding, I could be Batman. Well, not me personally, maybe if I had his personal trainer for a few years, but you get my point.
The point is, you have to have super powers(and the accompanied super sense of responsibility to use his/her super powers for good) to be a super hero. Otherwise, you're a sociopathic malcontent with an overdeveloped sense of vengeance.
My friend's point was this:
Yes, Batman is just a person, but he is still a super hero. Even though he doesn't have super powers, he does have the super sense of responsibility. In that sense, that makes him a more of a super hero than heroes with super powers. Precisely because he represents the ingenuity, the tenacity, valor and courage of mortal men that he is truly a super hero. "I mean, he fought Superman for crying out loud", sayeth my friend.
I haven't quite made my mind up yet, though I'm obviously still leaning towards him being a criminal.
Comments? Thoughts?
GrapeKoolaid posted on Aug 02, 2006
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Comments
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silverwhisper said on Aug 02, 2006....
are you kidding me? batman's a vigilante. vigilante <> terrorist. does batman target innocents? [i]no.[/i]. i'd recommend changing the title of this post: you're gonna get a lot of knee-jerk reactions to that alone, i think. ed -
GrapeKoolaid said on Aug 02, 2006....
I meant Terrorist in a sense that he instills terror in the night of Gotham. Batman contributes to the general lawlessness in Gotham(as Batman has no civil authority, not to mention megavillains the likes of the Joker & the Penguin), hence an agent of terror. Batman's not a fundamentalist terrorist, but as he participates in the revolving door justice system, the villains he catches are "innocent until proven guilty" so by the eyes of the law, he does attack "innocents". I know I'm just playing with definitions here, but I've given this topic considerable thought. He's not a terrorist in a fundamentalist, or a traditional sense, but as he is an active participant in the chaos that is Gotham nightlife, I have to designate him as a terrorist. That is, if I was the Department of Homeland Security Chief in Gotham. -
Indiefilm said on Aug 02, 2006....
I see what your saying about calling batman a terrorist. I don't agree with it, as terrorists generally attack soft targets and or civilian targets to forward a political agenda. (as apposed to insurgents tend attack hard targets, I.E. military and defended government instilations to forward a politcal agenda) What batman lacks is the political agenda of a terrorist. yes, he does try to inspire terror into people who break the law, he doesnt' inspire it in the general population, nor does he attempt to change the political climate of Gotham. But my disagreement is only in the word your choosing to use, not the meaning of what your saying. Yes, Batman is a criminal by the standards of US law. However, the question remains, legal or not, is what he does right? in the context of the story, the poeple he catches are tend to either end up in Mental hospitals or 6 feet under. That, argueably, might be a better place for them, but what if he gets the wrong man? -
Indiefilm said on Aug 02, 2006....
and that second sentance should read 'opposed', not 'apposed'... -
GrapeKoolaid said on Aug 02, 2006....
My friend that I was having this arguement with would say that's what makes him a superhero. The fact that he takes on these villains who threaten the city and defeats them not by guns(after 1940), not by spuer powers, but with indomitable human spirit. (To him)Batman represents the pinnacle of humanity. As to the point that he takes the law into his own hands, he's just one man. He's the judge and jury. He's not going to gather evidence and present a case, he's gonna see you do somethig bad and he's gonna whoop you. (Wesley Willis, R.I.P., has a great song called "I whooped Batman's ass) -
TheNakedProfessor said on Aug 03, 2006....
Anyone who doubts Batman's affiliations need only check the background of a few photos of the Justice League. Why would Superman and Wonder Woman risk their shaky trust with the publlic (after going berserk several times and luring building-smashing, block-crunching monsters into the country) by letting a bad guy hang out in the Watchtower? Besides, how many times have we seen Commissioner Gordon covering for him? If you ask me, he's secretly deputized. I mean shit, why is the Bat-Signal shining from the roof of police headquarters? Actually, I think he appeared on Oprah last week, they'll be showing his episode soon. It's called "Children Fighting Crime In Tights And Their Irresponsible Wards." -
silverwhisper said on Aug 03, 2006....
grape: please stop using the word terrorist. you are devaluing it by stretching it so far. batman [i]does[/i] represent the pinnacle of human achievement: he's smarter, more cunning and in better condition than any other (unenhanced) human on the planet, irrespective of which writer is writing the story. your friend is absolutely right in that respect. as to whether he's a criminal or vigilante: yes, he is. that's just plain "no duh" territory, isn't it? after all, so are superman, wonder woman, spiderman, etc. ed -
GrapeKoolaid said on Aug 03, 2006....
There. I edited the title of the thread(which, I didn't know I could do until just now). I retract my former accusation of Batman being a terrorist. Even though he's an agent of terror, in discussing this issue with such learned folks, I've come to a realization that Batman is a force of good. I think TNP may have something about Batman being "secretly deputized". The Bat Signal is definitely a clue. I wonder if the citizenry of Gotham paid for the Batsignal with their tax dollars or if it was a gift from the "Wayne" Foundation. I still say he's a rich sociopath with all these toys that drive around at night looking for a fight, but at least he picks on all the right people...
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