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Is marriage a right or a privilege?
 
     My position (which is probably not a surprise) is it's a privilege reserved for man and a woman.  There are many on the secular left who cry civil rights whenever this issue is brought up.  They know it has nothing to do with civil rights and has everything to do with sticking it to anything religious.  They also know by making a civil rights issue out of the debate they can inject enough emotions to change society into accepting them.
 
     Here's the big problem.  There is a difference between being accepted and having a consensus between what is normal versus abnormal behavior.  Homosexuality is abnormal behavior because whether you believe in evolution or creation, if everyone at the beginning had no attraction to the opposite sex, we wouldn't be here.  To change a sacred institution  based on deviant behavior is lunacy. 
 
     What is homosexuality?  Does anyone real know?  Are people born with it or is something that comes from our environment?  Before we decide to change thousands of years of socialization shouldn't these questions be answered first?  In our society today two people of the opposite sex getting together in a union, having children, and raising these children is what works and what has worked for a long time. 
 
     We should not cheapen marriage, we should let it be.  If two men want to get married, or two woman, or a man and a boy, or three men and two woman it should not be allowed because even though they are accepted as citizens their lifestyle is not.  If we have something that is good we should not open it up to whatever perversions the secular left wants to throw in, we owe our future generations far more.


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Comments

  • anonymous said on Dec 02, 2007....
    i say let gay people get married, let polygamy happen, and if a person wants to marry their dog let that happen too. Government should not control what people do in their personal lives and religion should just die like the dinosaurs...
  • stopmediabias said on Dec 02, 2007....
    There is a limit to our freedom based on the fact that too much freedom can kill us all.  Do you remember AIDS?  If you are such of a candy ass you can't debate the issues under who you really are then don't waste my time.
  • elleb84 said on Dec 02, 2007....
  • elleb84 said on Dec 02, 2007....
    hey i just wanted to say(i dont think my comment got posted before) that gay people should be allowed to marry because i dont think its a choice. why would people chose to be hated by society, it doesnt make sense...
  • Eilan said on Dec 02, 2007....
    I yearn for the days when women's lives were regarded as nothing but currency in an economic transactions between two men.  Marrying for love so cheapens the institution.
  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 02, 2007....
    It really does Eilian.  And women being treated as people was the begining of the end.
     
    That said I don't care about gay marriage.  Not one tiny bit.  I believe that there should be a SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.   So marriage belongs to whomever the Pope, Minister, Ayatollah and Cleric say with no interference whatseover from the law.
     
    That said any group of people living in the same home should receive identical tax breaks and financial recognition from the state.  They should be able to have whomever they desire make their medical decisions.  I'll stop debating this with stop and ALIEN if either one of them can answer the following question to my satisfaction and it's a very simple straight forward question.
     
    Why should the government make life easier for a man and his wife than they do for a man caring for his uncle, or his best friend?  
     
    I'm asking about legal and financial consideration nothing sexual or romantic.  Hell a bunch of college guys who can't afford their own places.
  • elleb84 said on Dec 02, 2007....
    what??? tell me u are joking seanrenaud
  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 02, 2007....
    If you mean about women I'm half joking.
  • desertsienna2 said on Dec 03, 2007....
    Marrying an animal is bestiality and the animal cannot give permission.  As for polygamy that is ridiculous.  I am not against gay marriage.  The divorce rate is what it is because of the actions of people in marriage, quitting, a vague sense of self-fulfillment or disappointment that inspires leaving for no good reason, etc.  People get divorced for good and bad reasons.  It is up to them.  It is not about law. 

    A better issue for the right to be concerned about is father's rights:  having to pay child support for children they didn't choose to father to women who deliberately got pregnant to trap them or from having slept with someone else; having their visitation rights limited;  being denied joint custody; having someone harass them after divorce, threats of jail and lawsuits and garnishing of wages for not working, denial of EI and welfare for owing child support, forcing stepfathers to give up parental rights or forcing them to pay child support for kids they didn't father themselves, adopting out kids without the father's permission, etc.  ALL OF THAT IS UNFAIR TO MEN.  Having a child a man doesn't want in or outside of a relationship should mean no child support and no right to demand he visit the kid he doesn't acknowledge.  That is a much better issue for the conservatives to worry about.
  • stopmediabias said on Dec 03, 2007....

    elle-they don't choose do be hated, they are because radical sections of their group like to dress in drag and parade down the street, the bad ones overshadow the good ones. 

    Sean-your right, all people should get the same government benefits, marriage is for husband and wife because that's what works and maintaining a stable society

    desert- good points, except I don't think divorce rates are a reason to scrap and entire institution.

  • bloc said on Dec 03, 2007....
    the reason it's a civil rights issue are the legal consequences. I don't really care about the term used, but gay people should be able to have the same legal rights. Their partners should be allowed to visit them in the hospital when they are deathly ill, they should have the same legal rights in wills, etc, etc, etc
  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 03, 2007....
    But Stop, that is really what you are fighting against is those people getting the same government benefits.  You're so caught up in the sanctity of a word that you are denying people legal rights.
     
    Can you explain to me how that is good?  I'll be the first one to say I don't care if it's marriage, civil union, joint partnership, alliance or US is the term that allows identical, not similar if you go through a mile of paperwork, rights.
  • crybabylu said on Dec 03, 2007....

    smb - -"If you are such of a candy ass you can't debate the issues, etc. etc."  Perhaps you aren't aware that the above statement you wrote in your comments is offensive. 

      Now,  I realize this is your blog and all,  and we debate issues sometimes......but I still thought you were a genuine person, who is sincere, who just thinks differently on some subjects......but when you go and say something like that, you are saying something a whole lot different than simply debating marriage between a man and a woman.

  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 03, 2007....
    It is acceptable on Soul Cast to dis credit anons.  I'm actually shocked that SMB hasn't just blocked them like most people have.  They serve absolutely no positive purpose.  So I second his Candy ass comment.
  • crybabylu said on Dec 03, 2007....

    Sean--Do you know what candy ass implies?

    I agree about anonymous posters, that is why I have blocked them on my site, and although smb have our share of arguments (which probably both of us enjoy),  I enjoy reading, for the most part, his comments.  So, I guess I was just kind of shocked at the word usage.

     

  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 03, 2007....
    It's usually a slur against gays.  But to be perfectly honest accusing something/someone of being gay has been largely divorced from actual homosexuality in recent years.  I used to have a homo boss, when something went wrong he wasn't above saying "That's so gay."
     
    I might not always (or even usually, or probably occasionaly) agree with smb.  But when he's right I back him 100% (as I would anybody else) and as you've noted anonymous posters deserve all the scorn they receive and then some. 
  • stopmediabias said on Dec 04, 2007....

    Lets be clear here, I look at homosexuality as deviant behavior just the same as non-married heterosexuals that go out and screw everything they see.  The fabric of our society is held together by the values we were all raised with.  Just letting someone crap all over the institution of marriage because they want to be recognized as normal is wrong.  We aren't ready for this yet.  If we just let any group of deviates (that's harsh but read my previous statement) marry then we have to recognize their lifestyle as normal behavior.  Are we ready to teach our kids that homosexuality is normal behavior?

    marriage is not a right, it's a privilage.  Everyone is allowed this privilage if they follow the guidlines in the constitution.

    Sean/Bloc- we can give everyone the same benefits without tearing the institution of marriage down.  Marriage is a good thing that promotes social welfare and procreation.  

    Crybabylu-If someone speaks anonymous then they have no business being in the debate.  I look at anon's as the same as people who are "independent" when they are actually either ragingly Liberal or Conservative and in reality they are just cowards.

    My "candyass" comment honestly wasn't a slur against gays, it's kind of like calling someone a whimp.

  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 04, 2007....
    @stop:  While I think we as a society (baring guys like you and ALIEN) are ready to accept gays into "normal" society just like we did blacks that isn't the point.
     
    The majority of people on "your" side of this debate are barring (intentionally) the rights and benefits of people.
     
    I don't give two shits about the sanctity or importance of a word.  If civil unions were actually the same as marriage I'd shut up.  And from what your saying your hang up is really about how important the word and institution of marriage is to a society. 
     
    So why not do exactly what I said.  Call for a separation of church and state on this issue.  Let Church have Marriage.  The legal contracts, rights and priveleges that have traditionally been legalled refered to as Marriage can be called Civil Unions or partnerships.
     
    The problem  here (even from your point of view) is clearly not that religion has been kept out of something it should be a part of, it's rather that it's become enrapt with the legal system where it's obviously causing an avoidable hiccup.
  • bloc said on Dec 04, 2007....
    good summary sean!
  • crybabylu said on Dec 04, 2007....

    "My "candyass" comment honestly wasn't a slur against gays, it's kind of like calling someone a whimp."(cut and pasted from smb's comments about remark made to anonymous.)

    In all due respect to you, SMB, (afterall, I realize this is "uncensored blogging", I was just surprised,   And, no offense,  I believe if you wanted to say whimp, you would have said "whimp"  But, I do see where whimp would have easily fit in the context use used.

  • stopmediabias said on Dec 05, 2007....

    Sean-First of all the comparison of Blacks and Gays is ridiculous, homosexuality is a mental disorder, being Black is not and there really isn't much choice in being Black either.

    Please enlighten me on what rights are barred from Gays.

    And good God why is even the hint of anything religion brought out and you people cry seperation of church and state.  Marriage is in the Constitution defined as a union between a man and a woman.  Everyone (including gays) play the seperation of church and state card every chance they get and when they get married where does it happen?  In a church, that is hilarious, this is why this isn't about marriage or gay rights, it's about stomping down anything religious.

    The main point here is are we ready for this?  How can we tell our kids that homosexuality is a bad thing then at the same time recognize it as normal behavior?  It doesn't work that way.  Is it better to teach our kids that it's all right to go screw whoever you want man or woman or teach them that it's better to go find someone they can settle down with?

    I've said many times if two people or three people or a person and his horse can prove they financially depend on each other and a loss will cause a major hardship then obviously they should get the same benefits, this has nothing to do with being gay or anything.  Marriage is an important part of society and letting anyone just define it around their own perversions is wrong.

  • bloc said on Dec 05, 2007....
    The said truth is that Colbert's character, a neocon whose beliefs are based on guts and not brains, is not an exaggeration as smb makes clear almost every time he posts. He frequently says things that are simply, clearly, and conclusively false. 

    "Marriage is in the Constitution defined as a union between a man and a woman"

    Please show me where the Constitution defines marriage. Please.

    "How can we tell our kids that homosexuality is a bad thing then at the same time recognize it as normal behavior?"

    This is dumb on many levels. First, many of us don't believe that homosexuality is a bad thing. Second, even if it is bad it only hurts the participants and the idea of freedom is that people should be allowed to do things that don't hurt others. Third, there are many many many things that are bad and are normal behavior. How can we teach kids that obesity is bad when it's normal? This question is dumb right? We teach kids that something is bad by teaching them that it's bad, and hopefully giving them a reasoned explanation of why it's bad.

    "Please enlighten me on what rights are barred from Gays."

    Are you really this dense? I already listed some! Can you seriously not think of some of the legal rights a married spouse gets by being married. 

    Well here is a link just to say the same thing for a third time. Maybe three times a charm.
  • Eilan said on Dec 05, 2007....
    "homosexuality is a mental disorder"

    Homosexuality is no longer in the DSM.  I'll bet even Tom Cruise, who's studied the history of psychiatry, knows that.
  • cotteralladams3 said on Dec 06, 2007....
    Isn't the wrong type of marriage bad enough? Why do some men avoid marriage? Why is it some women are so desperate for it? I admit there are happy marriages but consider some of these scenarios that make marriage in itself somewhat unappealing:

    Women who deliberately flush the Pill down the toilet to force a man into fatherhood and end his bachelorhood; someone else's sleep interrupted by screaming and sickness in infants; pregnancy, breastfeeding and childbirth; having to work two shifts a day to make ends meet; mortgages; cheating; STD's from someone's cheating;

    Women who marry to get out of the house and avoid living alone; women who marry for money; women who marry to avoid work; men and women who hate housework; men who are workaholics; men who travel constantly; a refusal to cook and clean; a spouse who rolls over and sleeps on top of the other; sleep apnea and snoring; control freaks who do not let women work, make their own money, have their own friends, wear what they like, go out, etc.

    I mean given the economic burden of marriage along with claims of stress, depression, verbal abuse, arguments, money concerns and exhaustion from many parents, I have always wondered why some married people feel the need to tell me and other singles that we must be desperate to get married, that they must fix our bad situation for us, that there is something wrong about us, that it's weird that we're single, oh and what else?

    That we are not following social norms, have no lives, have nothing to do with our time, etc. I guess I don't enjoy having financial freedom, making a move when I feel like it, working as much as I like, not having to get up in the middle of the night to change diapers and get a bottle ready, travelling, taking an art class, writing a novel, going to play tennis, getting drunk, spending money in restaurants, on clothes and scratch and win tickets without worry, investing, having a basement suite to myself, cranking up loud music and watching videos. I might like to get married to have a partner but I don't know about the children.

    I am not against gay marriage.  Let them have the arguments over the toilet seat, walking the dog, cooking dinner, body hair, shower tiles and other issues.  Why do heterosexual people complain they are married with too many kids?  How did they end up with too many kids, a mortgage and a wife or husband in the first place?  I wish they would shut up.  First, they are victims of marriage and they didn't choose it.  Then they want their single friends to get married.  Then they want a divorce.  Then it's wrong for women to be divorced single parents or out-of-wedlock mothers but some of them are happy and wouldn't want to remarry.  Then they must stay in their marriage.  Then they judge and criticize single people.  Then they insist on socially engineering someone's life to their expectations by demanding he or she get married and have kids now or else they can't be friends with them.  I can tell you I have sympathy for gays who'd like to marry and adopt, divorced people and single parents. I do not criticize them constantly or try to change them.  I figure a good portion are happy.  By sympathy I mean that I try to understand and have compassion but do not try to judge, change, hate, manipulate or anything else.  I'd rather not be friends with the upper-class heterosexual female married manipulators who like to be pregnant to show off their fertility but hate dealing with marriage, parenting, diapers, chores and such because it damages their nails.  I hate those types.  I wish they'd get lost.  I don't need their advice in life.  They can't be in control of themselves so they control others.  Men feel no need to do this to arrange their friends' social lives.  These people are not friends.
  • stopmediabias said on Dec 06, 2007....

     "Marriage is in the Constitution defined as a union between a man and a woman"
    Please show me where the Constitution defines marriage. Please.

    Bloc- I stand corrected, hell must have frozen over, you are right and I am wrong.  I honestly thought there was a text in the Constitution about marriage and their isn't.  States have the power to marry, and gender is not mentioned.  So pat yourself on the back :)

    This is dumb on many levels. First, many of us don't believe that homosexuality is a bad thing. Second, even if it is bad it only hurts the participants and the idea of freedom is that people should be allowed to do things that don't hurt others."

    Bloc lets step outside the political arena for moment and step into the parental place.  Lets say hypothetically you have a 16 year old son who comes home and says another boy hit on him and wants to perform oral sex and sodomy on him and would like him to do the same back.  Your son says, "I don't know Dad I'm a little confused, is it normal for me to have sexual relations with another male?"

    What do you say, as a parent?

    There are limits to our freedom, stepping over the majority of the people in this country who are not comfortable with a lifestyle yet, because they want us to validate their behavior is wrong.  Are their studies on how homosexuality effects kids?  Is it genetic or environment or mental that a person is not attracted to the opposite sex?  We don't know enough about this subject to just open the floodgates. 

    "Are you really this dense? I already listed some! Can you seriously not think of some of the legal rights a married spouse gets by being married." 
     
    "Their partners should be allowed to visit them in the hospital when they are deathly ill, they should have the same legal rights in wills, etc, etc, etc "
     
    Visiting someone in the hospital is not a legal right, and as far as wills and etc etc these issues can be fixed without changing the marriage laws.  The constitution gives privilages to groups of people and discriminates others in other cases.  Look at 17 year olds, they can fight in a war but can't vote, drink, and in a lot of states smoke.   
     
    Cotter-do know what we are debating here?  Pay attention. 
     
     

     

     

     

     

  • bloc said on Dec 06, 2007....
    "and as far as wills and etc etc these issues can be fixed without changing the marriage laws"

    I'm curious about your view here. What if we setup a legal partnership that people could enter into which wasn't called marriage. Would you accept that?

    Now to your question about parenting. A couple of thoughts. I'd be irritated if someone tried to solicit sex from my 16 year old regardless of the orientation of that person. 

    Second, I remember my hormones as a teenager. Girls made me drool and boys did not. A boy hitting on me wasn't going to change that. I frankly have no fear that seeing gay people will turn straight people gay. 

    I don't care how many times I see two guys kissing, it won't make me like girls any less and it certainly isn't going to make me like guys. I really don't understand this fear that everyone is going to become gay somehow. 
  • Taffy000 said on Dec 07, 2007....
    I can't say I see being gay as "abnormal" but I see where you're coming from.  I do think that it's cool now to declare yourself as living an alternate lifestyle-swinging, stripping, being gay it's all the rage.  I've written about it myself come have a look.
  • stopmediabias said on Dec 08, 2007....

    "I'm curious about your view here. What if we setup a legal partnership that people could enter into which wasn't called marriage. Would you accept that?"

     Bloc-my answer to this is yes.

    "Now to your question about parenting. A couple of thoughts. I'd be irritated if someone tried to solicit sex from my 16 year old regardless of the orientation of that person."
     
    But you have to admit you have a far different reaction if a girl solicited sex. 
     
    There are kids, both girls and boys as early as age 14 in my son's school who claim they are gay.  The boys where eye make-up and dress partially(they go all the way if the school let them) in drag.  Now if an administrator told these kids that's wrong and not normal he would be run out of town.  Is this what we have become?  What's next?
     
    Taffy-I think if something is considered taboo in society we should find the underlying cause (of why it's taboo) before we actually classify it as normal everyday society. 
     
  • crybabylu said on Dec 08, 2007....
    As far as I am concerned, all the state or federal power should be in marraige, is a matter of records.  That is correct, i think all they should be able to do is record the marriag.  People use to record their marriages in bibles....were they not legally married?
  • bloc said on Dec 08, 2007....
    @smb
    I think we could reach a happy compromise. 

    "Is this what we have become? What's next?"

    There are countries that try hard to regulate sexuality and even ban homosexuality. Iran is one such country. I think if we look around the world the best places to live are the ones that do not try to legislate sexual morality. So to answer your question, no I'm not worry about these things.
  • anonymous said on Dec 15, 2007....
    Men were NOT designed to have sex with other men
    Women were NOT designed to have sex with other women.
     
    It's just THAT simple. Why are we confusing it by allowing perverts and sadists to marry? Why not let a 40 year old marry a 10 year old if it's perfectly fine to let men sodomize eachother?
     
    The institution of marriage is perfectly fine as the union of a MAN and a WOMAN. It's the people who manage to screw it up by leaving their prescribed roles that make it look bad.
  • stopmediabias said on Dec 16, 2007....
    "Men were NOT designed to have sex with other men
    Women were NOT designed to have sex with other women"
     
    This is not really a sex issue, who you are having sex with is nobody's business.
     
    "Why are we confusing it by allowing perverts and sadists to marry?"
     
    This is racist, and I don't hold this view or agree with it.  There are perverts and sadists in every facet of society whether it be same or opposite sex.
     
    "Why not let a 40 year old marry a 10 year old if it's perfectly fine to let men sodomize eachother?"
     
    Because a ten year old cannot give consent under the law.  People who play the sodomy card are (in the majority) are total hypocrites because many men watch pornagraphy and practice sodomy with members of the opposite sex.  Like I said before it is not a sex issue.
     
    "The institution of marriage is perfectly fine as the union of a MAN and a WOMAN. It's the people who manage to screw it up by leaving their prescribed roles that make it look bad. "
     
    Here is agree with you, I hate too because I can't stand anon's.
     
     
     
     
  • bloc said on Dec 16, 2007....
    you should delete that spam anon. The one with the links. If they think their spam will not get deleted it will just encourage them to do more of it :/
  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 16, 2007....
    Seriously guys.  I looked it up on my calender of prevents.  You two aren't supposed to support each other until atleast 2012.  Are you trying to kick start the apocalypse?  Smb defending gays rights to have gay sex?!  Maybe I'm drunk and I'm reading wrong or something wacky like that.
  • stopmediabias said on Dec 16, 2007....

    bloc I agree with you (holy shit hell has frozen over!) but I very rarely delete anyone.  Since I've been here I've only deleted anti-war links from that wacko "oceanwaves" who I think is "sheltercrow" now.  I don't understand the anon's but who knows it could be someone we know.

    Sean-this is where this debate has gotten out of hand, the gay marriage issue is not a rights, sex, religious, issue it's about protecting an institution that is beneficial to society.  And don't you find straight guys who cry about sodomy and at the same time want to sodomize their girlfriends and watch pornography that contains the same thing quite hypocrytical?

  • bloc said on Dec 16, 2007....
    the first anon isn't a real comment. They copied someone else's comment and made it a spam link. 
  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 16, 2007....
    Honestly I admit that guys and girls are different creatures.  Hense I don't see it as hypocritical that a guy wants to get anal from a girl and not from a guy.  I blocked anons long long ago because of stupid crap like that btw.
     
    That said honestly all three of us are in agreement on this issue.  Which is something I didn't expect to see.  The hard part now is getting more people to agree.
  • stopmediabias said on Dec 18, 2007....
    amen to that Sean
  • anonymous said on Dec 23, 2007....

    This is not really a sex issue, who you are having sex with is nobody's business.

    Yes, actually - this IS a sex issue.

    I'm not sure if you noticed, stopmediabias, but anatomically speaking - males are NOT designed to have sex with other males. Men were designed to have sex with women and women with men. Hence why women have the reproductive organs they do (uterus, ovaries and such) and men don't. If Bob and Larry could procreate, they would have been given the neccesary tools for the job.

    Do we need to review basic anatomy?

  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 23, 2007....
    Seriously anon.  Shut up.  You're wrong, you're ignorant and nobody give a shit what you think.
  • bloc said on Dec 23, 2007....
    I guess anon believes that men and woman should not be allowed to have oral sex either. 
  • SeanRenaud said on Dec 23, 2007....
    I wonder how he feels about sex between sterile couples.
  • stopmediabias said on Dec 24, 2007....

    What is repulsive too one person is not too another.  As bloc made a very good point there are some people who think oral sex horrible. 

     But this opens an interesting can of worms. 

    Why is it so disgustingly repulsive to a straight man the thoughts of two men together sexually (I will admit I fit into this catagory) and at the same time are not nearly as disgusted when two woman are together sexually?  It doesn't seem to be as taboo when technically it is still same sex sex.  Look at the Madonna/Spears kiss on MTV, there was outrage but no near the outrage if it was Justin Timberlake/Ricky Martin.  

  • bloc said on Dec 24, 2007....
    good question
  • ofelixdacat said on Mar 12, 2009....
    stopmediabias is obviously a stupid and ignorant republican, like most. He says homosexuality is "Abnormal" when in reality, it's pretty common. Even animals are homosexual, yet they don't face as much scrutiny from members of their species, like humans do. And 3 in 10 people are gay, which means it's very likely and someone in your family is gay or is going to grow up to be gay, even your own children. And of course, not everyone is going to be attracted to members of the same sex, nor will everyone ever be, but Heterosexuality is to blame for the over population of the earth, for the fact that 1000's of unwanted children are in foster care, and thousands of abortions happen every year. If EVERYONE has heterosexual, the population would be out of control. So Heterosexuals are really the ones to blame for the world problems.
  • SeanRenaud said on Mar 12, 2009....
    your an idiot.  Please stop breathing.
  • doortoinsanity said on Jun 05, 2009....
    This blog helped me think more into the issue.  broke it down more.  thank you's.  I'm going to go try to figure out how to block anons...

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